[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 Kyrie Team is currently better even though Kuz has been a more explosive scorer than any of the Celtics young players. Ingram IMO is a very good player,So too a constant triple d threat who defends. Is the Celtics cast better or has Kyrie taught them how to fight and win?

Is Lebron a victim of a weak squad or has he failed to lead?

 

[ChewyParticipant]

 Kyrie- it is hard (not impossible) to truely lead your team when you have free agency looming and everyone knows you can bolt in a few months if you want. Last year Brown made a huge Sophomore leap and then Rozier and Tatum stepped up in the playoffs. This year’s Celtics have chemistry problems. I haven’t seen any of the young Celts take a huge leap forward. Maybe they are a little better, but no noticable jumps this year. Sure they are still winning a lot and will be in the playoffs, but the expectations for this team was way higher than that.

Lebron- He turns crappy players into very good role players. He turns all stars into very good role players. That’s the way he works. He (or people talking about him) keep saying that he can’t continue to do everything for his team. People need to step up to help him carry the load. I don’t think LBJ style of play allows for other players to step up and do that. The My Way or the Highway leadership approach can work. MJ made it work. Lebron made it work for 10 years in the EC. But it also means you have to carry everyone, every night.

If you want leadership, give me Steph Curry. He can score 40 one night and then take 7 shots the next night. He doesn’t care. He just wants to win. And he has a positive attitude at least 85% of the time.

 

 

[MkadozaParticipant]

 I disagree on Lebrons style not allowing players to shine. I just think the caliber of player he’s had as teammates has been mostly lackluster, Prime Wade and Kyrie notwithstanding. Kyrie proved his level by excelling with Lebron. And if no one on the Lakers roster is good enough to be a force with Lebron on their team, they arent good enough. Pippen stepped up. Shaq/Kobe stepped up. Hell, Manu and Tony Parker stepped up.You give Lebron someone like Paul George right now, and I’m sure he’ll be happy to let PG get as many attempts as he wants.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

 Both got way better going against him in training camp last year. Ingram is better than what we see now but he plays with Lebron. Kuz was scoring a lot last year now he is a spot up shooter mainly. Tatum has constant I so all the damn time. Brown shoots whenever he wants on 2nd unit. Playoffs is best out of 7. That’s how I will judge this Celtics team. Lakers wont likely be around for any playoffs series. LeBron is suppose to be way better than Kyrie. Why is his team quitting? Why?

[halfdecayedParticipant]

All imma say is they both were better playing with each other. I don’t think Kyrie can be the best player on a championship team, he’s better suited has a 1B like he was with Lebron. 

[halfdecayedParticipant]

All imma say is they both were better playing with each other. I don’t think Kyrie can be the best player on a championship team, he’s better suited has a 1B like he was with Lebron. 

[sweaterflexParticipant]

People like to construct narratives about leadership, and while chemistry can help or hurt a team, players largely are who they are based on their own actions, not due to the most powerful/influential person on the team. I think LeBron is the second best player of all time and very well could be the best after another year or two, but that is almost completely independent of his "leadership."

Whenever he joins a team he talks trash about young guys and sells them out for vets and then brings all of his washed up friends along for the ride. James Jones (x2), Mike Miller, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Juwan Howard, Dwyane Wade (Cavs), Kendrick Perkins, Mo Williams, Andrew Bogut, Mike Dunleavy, Chris Andersen (Cavs), Richard Jefferson (surprisingly feisty), Deron Williams, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Michael Beasley, LeBron James has all the time in the world for them. It’s honestly surprising he treats the young guys so terribly because he appears to be an excellent father.

Kyrie Irving has picked up LeBron’s subtweeting style and it’s not a surprise at all. They are both great players, but being good at basketball can be separated from being a leader. It’s not like MJ was a particularly good leader either, he punched Kerr and mentally broke half his team. Pure leadership, give me Duncan seven days a week out of any of these folks.

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 The lakers have been injured as hell so we can’t fully gauge them.. I think LBJ is just frustrated with losing as lets be honest he hasn’t lost since his first two seasons and that overall the young guys aren’t more two way players than currently are(minus Zo).

But in saying that where he has failed as a leader is: The whole trade deadline A.D ish…That wasn’t needed and was almost in the same vein as the decision. By this I mean good intentions(he wants to win badly) really bad execution(Leaks and Lebrons snarky comments through media)…Decision for charity but not need sort of move.

For example who asks for one of his agencies players to come play with him and then tells the mentioned players to suck it up/get back to it and backs that guy over his own team mates..He was a little clueless on his part..

Kyrie is IMO not a leader but a really really good number 2 player to have on your squad.

I don’t think he is a leader he just isn’t built that way and personally this team was better off taking a detroit larry brown style approach(ECF without them is proof). By this I mean win by commity vs having big name stars… Hence why they worked better without Kyrie and Hayward..

 

 

[MkadozaParticipant]

Lebrons offcourt commentary gets too Zen master Phil Jackson. He’ll openly mention players he’d like to play with with no penalty because he’s not techinically a member of the front office. He’ll use his influence and clout (and his team) to game the system. It doesnt always work, so now some people include his "GM Resume" in his "Basketball Player Resume". He’s a mediocre GM. Doesnt mean hes not an exceptional leader, though.

I think the AD drama was way worse than the decision, because the decision was narcissistic, but it really didnt hurt anyone. It was an ego fueled announcement, nothing more. The AD instigation has had terrible consequences on the already fragile confidence of the young Lakers, and set in motion the slow death of the Pelicans, aided by AD’s team. Worst move in the worst season of a legendary player. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’m not a huge fan of LeBron’s leadership style when it comes to certain things. I’m not a big fan of some of his tactics, etc. 

However, you have to say he’s still an overal great leader when you step back and look at the BIG picture. Of course he’s not perfect, which is the first thing a great leader understands. I bet LeBron does a TON for his teammates when the media isn’t around, etc. There’s a ton on his shoulders. He’s taking majority of the blame for this mess of a situation with the Lakers, but I don’t think enough is falling on Magic and Rob Pelinka’s shoulders. 

Kyrie . . .  I don’t know how good of a leader he is. I don’t think he’s figured out his own style yet. The one thing I’ll give him credit for is having the balls to step up and apologize for criticizing his teammates in the media. However, he comes across as just wierd to me. 

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 Lebron and Kyrie are great players, no question about it, and I respect them, but does it mean I like them, no it doesn’t, because from a person standpoint they are two players that I just love to hate. For Lebron it was the whole decision thing. Yes, that was a long time a go, and anybody should fogive him because he has done much better since then, but I don’t care what he has done since then, you just dont do something like the decision. Yes, you are a unique player and there hasn’t been anyone like you in the NBA for a while, but at the end of the day you are still a player and should still get the same treatment as everyone else. You want to talk about a leader, look at John Stockton, Tim Duncan or Steph Curry. Those players didn’t have great teams (well except for Steph) but they led their teams to greatness both on and off the court. They led by example, and helped their team from the bottom up not from the top down. They didn’t look outside for old players for help, they looked inside and then led by example both on and off the court. That’s when players from the outside start to respect you.

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