Fizer's Take: New York Knicks

This topic contains 35 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by The Big O 16 years, 8 months ago.

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Posted on: Sat, 10/24/2009 - 11:26pm #9641

marcusfizer21
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New York City? The City that Never Sleeps… The Yankees and the Mets… The Rangers… The Giants and the Jets… and oh yeah… The New York Knicks… I haven’t really thought that much about them because they don’t scream “championship” to me… Well, at least not this season or next… Well, the Knicks’ greatest accomplishment last season was getting rid of “cancer” Stephon Marbury and his ridiculous contract out of the Big Apple. Donnie Walsh does have his work cut out for him but he’ll be fine as long as he keeps his head straight. Mike D’Antoni brought his exciting system to NYK which allows fans to be more excited than ever. But still, the Knicks still don’t have that certain guy that they can rely on and thus, they struggled mightily into the season though with respect to a new dawn for the Knicks, they did post a 32-50 record and had one of the highest scoring ppg in the L last year. Still, the old saying goes, “Offense wins games but defense wins championship”… Apparently, Mike didn’t want any part of that thus giving also as many as 106 ppg from the opponents. It has been a so-so year for the whole team but when you look at the achievements made by a couple of guys from the team, you could see that it’s not at all bad. Nate Robinson had a breakout year and so did David Lee. Nate won the 2009 Slam Dunk Contest while David was a consistent double-double guy for the Knicks team who needed Lee’s ethic to provide a little boost. Chris Duhon was also a guy making a mark by having a 22-assist game during the regular season. Plus, acquiring Al Harrington, Chris Wilcox and Larry Hughes in different trades could at least save the team a little bit of cap space come 2010…OOOOPS… If you expect a talk about 2010 on this thread, you’ll be disappointed. I’ll only talk about what’s in store for NYK this season. They had a so-so season, a season that see them missed the playoffs for the 5th straight year. This was the year where they got burned by Kobe for 61, where they were tormented by a near triple-double from LBJ including 52 points, and where they got dropped by the Big C’s of Greentown, all of them happening at the Mecca of Sports. Donnie Walsh still see “dirt” on this team and he vows to clean up the mess that Isiah had made…(Eddy Curry’s FAT contract and Jared Jeffries’)…LOL… The team is hoping to rebound this coming 2010 Season… Ahem…
The Knicks have been to the lotto for the 5th straight year and this is the 2nd straight year were they have a lotto pick since they gave up their lottery picks to the Bulls last 2006 and 2007. The Knicks landed the 8th pick which is not bad. The team has been very vocal and has been salivating to get Stephen Curry or Ricky Rubio but as expected, they were gone by the time the Knicks were on the clock. So they decided to go to another direction and drafted Jordan Hill whom D’Antoni claimed as a “young Amar’e” for a baby Knickerbockers. That’s not a bad comparison at all but we have to see what’s in store for Hill this coming year. What I do know is that Hill is a pretty athletic big man that loves to run down the floor- a great fit for D’Antoni’s system… They also acquired Darko Milicic from Memphis and got rid of the inconsistent Quentin Richardson, who began a tumultous journey after this trade… The Knicks were also able to buy the 29th pick from the Lakers… A pick that could give them a quality player and they did got one in Toney Douglas. The Seminole Combo-Guard could be one of the steals in the late first round and is considered as one of the most underrated players in the draft. You can forget about his size but you can’t forget how good his scoring mentality is. Not just that, Toney is also known to be a good defender, a rare combination of offense and defense for the Knicks. The Knicks did play it safe in this draft compared to 2008 when they drafted Italian sensation Danilo Gallinari. They avoided scrutiny though Knicks fans wished they could have made something out of a Ricky Rubio or a Stephen Curry. It’s just that, luck wasn’t good on them FOR NOW… The draft was good since they got the players that they wanted from their Plan B.
The Knicks are still far from being a contender. You can’t really judge them now since they aren’t going to make any moves until 2010. The offseason has been quiet overall for New York. They just added a couple of pieces from the draft +Darko and not that much. They also made heads and finally re-signed David Lee and Nate Robinson to a qualifying offer which, to them may be a disappointment, but they understood what the Knicks are planning to do. They also tried and hurdle in Eddy Curry and get him into a good shape as soon as possible after missing almost all games last year. Will they be able to save enough cap space for 2010? Can New York Hoops rise back to the top? Will the Yankees finally end the 9-year drought of no World Title and finally get #27? My bad, I was out of line when I asked that…(I couldn’t help it, I’m a Yankee fan)… How will they be able to hold out this coming 2010 draft since they will have their draft pick go to Utah? So many, many questions lingering in the City That Never Sleeps but in time, we will be able to get the right answers. All we have to do, especially Knicks fans, is to wait PATIENTLY and see the fruit that Donnie Wlash has been laboring. Maybe we could see a superstar wearing a new Knicks uniform or if they failed to court that certain someone, they can always have Plan B to Plan G… Who knows? The Knicks will be back… All we have to do is wait.
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NBA Draft Grade: B+
NBA Offseason Grade: C
Predicted W-L: 33-49
This is just a writer’s opinion… Anyone care to comment, I am open for it^^
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Posted on: Sat, 10/24/2009 - 11:45pm #223685

llperez
Man, the knicks are like the old saying money doesn’t buy you happiness. Well money doesn’t buy you wins either if you spend it stupid. A lot of people are saying the Knicks are different now because it is a new GM and coach. Well let’s wait and see because it was the same owner who hired two of the worst GM’s in sports history in Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas. Who’s to say the new GM won’t end up just as bad.
As for D’Antoni, I’m never a fan of a coach who does not care about defense. Good championship caliber coaches like Phil, Rivers, Sloan, and Popovich call timeouts and yell at their players when they blow defensive assignements. D’Antoni just yells “hurry up and take the ball out of bounds, we need to score. FOrget about who blew their defensive assignement, we need to score.” I’m not a big fan of that type of coach.
As for next summer, I think Knicks fans will be dissapointed. Lebron and wade will both probably stay home. Maybe a bosh or joe johnson comes over, but is that really gonna turn your franchise all around? Good luck Knicks.
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Posted on: Sat, 10/24/2009 - 11:47pm #223687

llperez
edit, double post
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Posted on: Sat, 10/24/2009 - 11:54pm #223688

marcusfizer21
Participant
Yeah.. I noticed your double post..LOL
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 7:51am #223711

NYK2010
Participant
But you failed to see why they even won 32 games last year and improved from 23 wins the year before.
33 wins with a healthier, deeper more talented roster damn I’d say I say 37-42
Some reasons why.
Hill, Douglas, Darko, a healthy Galo, even if you think all those are busts they are at least bodies.
The bench is much improved last year it was only Nate off the bench.
Lee finally doesn’t have to be alone at Center and they have some guys who can block some shots too.
Duhon has some help last year he tired as he logged a lot of minutes.
For most of the season their SG was QRich once Crawoford was traded.
Almost all the player Isiah brought in are gone, Malike Rose, Qrich, Jerome James, Steph Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Zach Randolph, Mardy Collins,
I agree with some of the knock on D’antoni D philosophy but some of these guys didn’t play much D before he took over.
The East top tier improved but most of the other teams didn’t.
Bobcats, Nets, Sixers, Bulls, Bucks, Heat didn’t improve or got worse.
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 8:42am #223712

esperanzafleet69
Participant
im sorry but the knicks no matter how u put it are headed for the lottery again… u gotta think, 37 wins in the east this year could mean the 8th seed… detroit got in last year with 38 wins.. and i dont see the knicks getting close to that.. in fact im guessing they get worse…
also gallanari was the worst draft pick ever… why would anybody want him over eric gordon, brook lopez, anthony randolph, or marreese speights…. im betting a 9 ppg career scorer… hes a player that should barely crack the rotation on any other team yet for no good reason that ive seen, d’antoni thinks hes the best shooter ever… idk i was just really pissed when they took him… the knicks could be so much better..
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- Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 5:14pm #223771
  
  The Big O
  The knicks are headed to the lottery. But they traded their lottery pick.
  No lottery pick. no trade assets. no wins. no lebron? logic would say no.
  Realistically Lebron would go to the Knicks for…?
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 8:43am #223713

esperanzafleet69
Participant
also u cant try to build around a superstar who isnt there yet… its just so stupid..
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 4:30pm #223768

sheltwon3
Participant
The will be alright and winning 35 40 games will not be too much for them depends on the schedule. Also if Galinari turns out to be the next Nowitski or Bargani then yall will be be proven wrong. Also right now finding combo guards is easy but I am mad that Knicks let Brooks pass though
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 5:27pm #223776

OrangeJuiceJones
Participant
My thoughts on the Knicks:
A: Gallo may be “the best shooter I’ve ever seen,” as Mike D’Antoni said, but he’s got a pretty long way to go before he becomes a serious scoring threat. It would be very beneficial to him to add more of a post-up game, as he’s not quick enough to consistently beat people off the dribble.
B: They need a starting point guard, and they need it now.
C: I don’t know if it was injuries or what, but Larry Hughes has really been sucking it up these past couple of years.
D: Eddy Curry has that fat player option after this year, which could really eat up their cap space and ruin their chance of getting LeBron or anybody else. I don’t see why he wouldn’t take it, it’s free money.
E: There is no lottery for the Knicks. There would just be no draft pick. I don’t see why a big-name free agent would come to a team where most of the guys aren’t even legitimate starters.
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 5:34pm #223778

quincey hodges
hill is a baby amare???..lol now that funny..he plays nothing like amare when amare was a rookie , by the way he was younger as a rookie, hill has shown int he preseason and summe rleauge that he has a ways to go.. d’antoni also overestimate his players..first gallo i the best shooter hes seen and now hill is a baby amare…man this guy should be a comedian as well as a coach..as far as them winning 35-40 games i dont see it because just about every team got better then year and the knicks are baically the same/a lil bit better
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- Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 5:46pm #223780
  
  The Big O
  Hill (and other people as well) compare him to Amar’e coming out of college.
  Also Hill went to Amar’e Stoudemires big man camp to get hype cuz he hadn’t played organized ball for that long so people were trying to hype it up.
  Ppl who have seen him play no he’s not as strong as Amar’e in the post, more finesse
  Hill is not even as heavy as Amar’e was as a rookie o.O
  don’t feed into the comparisons, man. Knicks fans r delusional
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 5:52pm #223782

quincey hodges
yeah im not ure why..i watched him in college and although he can jump he doesnt have that go hard attitude on offense like amare does..not many big men do
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- Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 6:39pm #223787
  
  The Big O
  6’10 250 dunker= Amar’e comparisons somewhere along the lines
  don’t believe me?
  Blake Griffin, Jordan Hill, Mareese Speights, Derrick Favors
  Amar’e types are sub par defenders, athletic but not enough length to dominate a game defensively at the NBA level
  Why would anybody use Amar’e as a model for drafting a player? the answer: offensive POTENTIAL
  The worst part about Jordan HIll is that he is behind all of those guys mentioned above in development (maybe even Favors) because he isn’t really 250! he only weighs 235. he can’t bang in the post and he can’t make up for it on defense.
  no bulk= no banging in the post on defense OR offense
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Posted on: Sun, 10/25/2009 - 8:35pm #223800

quincey hodges
they are only subpar defenders because they dont try on defense. they have the potenial to be very good defenders but they just dont put the effort into it. lebron is a prime example. his defense was susspect untill he decided to put more effort into. derrick rose will hopefully go down that ame path
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 3:27am #223831
  
  The Big O
  they are only subpar defenders because they dont try on defense.
  that’s a very cliche answer.
  Sure they r all very athletic players but they are all different sizes and different positions
  Lebron/Rose makes his “defense” known on (chase down) blocks,
  So yes u can say he puts “more” effort in. But he’s 6’8 250 lbs if he plays against Gasol the entire game and gets quick fouls can u say he’s not trying or he’s not PRODUCING?
  Derrick Rose will NEVER lock down a Chauncey Billups post up guard or Chris Paul because he’s too quick. Rondo has a different build than Rose he took advantage of Rose in the playoffs takes it to the basket on the regular.
  If u put Lebron at the PF position FULL TIME he is NOT a better defender than Amar’e
  that’s why he plays the SF
  U have to factor who each player is guarding, Amar’e can play center from time to time but r u expecting him to do if Dwight/Al Jefferson catches it in the post. U can force him off the block by being physical but that puts u at the mercy of the refs.
  U can blame Late rotations and effort only to a certain extent.
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 2:36am #223830

TheAlchemist
How much does Amar’e weigh though? I bet it isn’t 240/250. The Knicks are a shambles, and they are in some kind of fantasy world by thinking that a big name will want to join them next year. If Bosh, Amar’e, Wade or LeBron go to the Knicks then they are mental. This is what happens when you get idiots running your club, who then run off to manage in the NCAA.
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 4:21am #223832

The Big O
Name ONE 6’10 245 lb lock down defender in today’s game.
U can’t do it. Kenyon Martin is 6’9 and gets into foul trouble quickly as well. Chris Anderson is a horrible one on one defender but he chases down blocks but isn’t he lighter than Amar’e.
Subpar defenders Lebron is a small forward. He’s not matching up with 7 foot back to the basket players.
He’s 6’8 and WAY more mobile than any power forward in the game.
The TALLER U R the less mobile and the harder it is to get that ANGLE to block shots like Lebron does.
If Lebron was 6’10 250 do u think he’d still be guarding the perimeter?
no just like Amar’e and Marreese he’d be matching up with Duncan, Nowitzki, Gasol (!), and Al Jefferson
HEIGHT/WEIGHT can NEUTRALIZE athleticism and height can COMPROMISE MOBILITY.
In the NBA I factor in the mismatches/advantages/disadvantages; who are these guys are going up against on a nightly basis and by POSITION.
Amar’e is going up against Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki. They will bang into him and take him off the dribble in the post so they can get him in foul trouble and get to the foul line.
Lebron is going up against Caron Butler and Carmelo Anthony and Rudy Gay. He’s stronger, more solid, has quicker feet than all of them. And he’s 250+ lbs
Simply put he (Lebron) has ARGUABLY every advantage in the world on defense.
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 6:52am #223855

quincey hodges
ask any coach and they will tell you that defense is effort..jut like getting rebounds. there are rarely if any lock down defenders in the nba because no one can shut down everyone every night in the nba since every guy is pretty can score on a given night..amare could be a much better defender then he i now. its no different then how people say players have the potenial because of the physcial tools they posses. amare has those physical tool of being quick athletic and being able to jump. being in the right spot can neutralize height and weight and athleticim as well as making a hard effort. thats how some players before good rebounder or defender..bruce bowen is an example of a player not taller or stronger or quicker then most of the guys he checked and the same with dennis rodman but they gave max effort
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:04am #223857
  
  The Big O
  those guys weren’t guarding Tim Duncan and Shaq FULL TIME were they?
  Those guys were ROLE PLAYERS
  Bruce Bowen was guarding perimeter players and bigger forwards like Lebron and even Carmelo gave him trouble. That being said Bruce Bowen was a defensive genius as well as a ROLE Player
  Dennis Rodman- 6’8 WAY more MOBILE than Amar’e, COMPARE him to SHAWN Marion
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:14am #223860
  
  The Big O
  “being in the right spot can neutralize height and weight and athleticim as well as making a hard effort. thats how some players before good rebounder or defender”
  I agree I was an undersized center in high school so I used my smarts like that too.
  but the NBA is a whole new level especially in the post.
  Dennis Rodman was 6’8 so he had quicker feet than other players (not to mention how he would fluster people with his antics)
  Jason Maxiell- 6’6 260 lbs (he uses his upper body to get UNDERNEATH players and take AWAY THE LEGS of players)
  being a small PF has its advantages
  Amar’e I hate to say it IS A TWEENER
  He’s stuck between positions. not small enough to guard other small forwards,
  not big enough to be SOLID on the 7 footers
  Blocking shots RARELY happens on ONE on ONE and that’s what the standout defenders R known for
  Rebounding- he’s grabbed 22 boards before
  but like YOU SAID he can’t LOCK DOWN consistently
  he’s not going to CONSISTENTLY grab 20+ rebounds
  If Amar’e put on 20 lbs he’d be 265 that’s better for a defensive center/Power forward WITH a solid base
  but I don’t see him doing that bcuz his game is based on athleticism
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:07am #223859

quincey hodges
point being every star gives other players trouble..you arent gonna shut down a star..theres been games where amare has scored at will against duncan does that make him a bad defender?..there were game where amare played very good defense against duncan also…gotta also take into account that defense has never been smomething the suns focus on
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:28am #223862
  
  The Big O
  Amar’e Chris Bosh etc
  Garnett is the measuring stick agreed
  Chris Bosh too skinny
  Amar’e same weight but shorter
  Duncan is the measuring stick
  Amar’e 20 pounds lighter, 2 inches shorter, he HAS played SOLID in the past but not CONSISTENTLY
  Jefferson is the measuring stick
  Al Jefferson HIMSELF says he weighed 280 lbs last year and killed Amar’e in the postlast year
  I’m not saying amar’e should put on weight man, I’m saying Amar’es tools are not ELITE
  Kevin Durant is a 6’10 athletic would u want him playing against Duncan if he gained 30 lbs?
  I’m saying Amar’e WILL NEVER be a standout defender in the NBA.
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:20am #223861

quincey hodges
tweener?..ok no one ha ever said he was a tweener or to small to guard pf..thi is the first ive ever heard this..yeah hes not a center but no one ever disputes that hes a pf…he does a better then average job as a pf and there isnt a team out there that wouldnt take him weather for there pf or center position..he doesnt need to add any more weight( another first time ive heard this)..but it seems you have that set in youre mind so to each there own. i remeber a fan tryna tell me years ago that garnett needed to gain alot of weight alot of weight also . for some liek those guys there weight work for them they use there speed with less weight to do what they do. amare either needs a system that stresses defense and need to put more effort into defense..its that simple
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:27am #223863

quincey hodges
if anyone was 2 inches shorter or taller there games would change…thats a given
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:30am #223864
  
  The Big O
  So U agree, Finally, thank you.
  What about weight then. More weight = more solid post defense as well correct?
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:39am #223867

quincey hodges
al jefferson kills everyone for one..plus hes the only real offensive weapon for them and they lost the game..amare has punished him before also so does that mean al should lose weight?
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:49am #223870
  
  The Big O
  R U changing the subject again?
  “if anyone was 2 inches shorter or taller there games would change…thats a given”
  so u agree
  then what is ur point?
  I say that Amar’e doesn’t have the right COMBINATION of size, weight to affect the game from a defensive
  standpoint
  U bring up ANY defensive stalwart at the PF position from ANY era
  and I bet they were not 245 lbs
  and if they were I bet they weren’t 6’10
  either shorter or taller, that’s why I say it would be better if Amar’e was TALLER or SHORTER
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 7:55am #223871

quincey hodges
no i jut agree that if you give anyone 2 inches or take it away it changes there game…thats common senses. if youre good then youre weight doesnt matter..amares game isnt back you down power so he doesnt need more weight the same with garnett and bosh..you dont need to be real tall or real big to have the right combonation to change the game on defense..many players through history have shown at many different heights and weight that there is no set combonation..there has been many players with the same heigh weight speed as rodman but you have to have the effort..thats the main thing..if you dont have the effort then it doesnt matter what combination you have. you can be shorter weigh less and not real atletic and still be a very good defender…you cant with all those things and no effort though
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:02am #223873
  
  The Big O
  “many players through history have shown at many different heights and weight that there is no set combonation”
  Set combinations
  6’10 245
  IDK the best 2-WAY players around that I think were Elvin Hayes and Spencer Haywood I think
  what players R u talking about? I need some PROOF
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:11am #223876

quincey hodges
just ask a coach if effort is the most important thing that makes a player a good or great defender and see what they ay..and you will have youre proof
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:31am #223878
  
  The Big O
  That’s not proof
  that’s laughable
  there is a set combination just ask
  short players like Dejuan Blair or Jason Maxiell or Wes Unseld
  or tall players that don’t want to play center anymore (KG and Bosh)
  u think its a coincidence that 7 foot 250 KG plays alongside 6’10 280 Perkins?
  no its no coincidence they complement each other well
  sorry to burst ur bubble, and are u giving yourself points RIGHT AFTER you make a comment bcuz I noticed EVERY post of yours has exactly 1 point.
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:15am #223877

quincey hodges
or google and look at what coaches had to say what makes a good defener in the nba…effort and heart will be the first thing you see in every coachs/players answer..all the other stuff helps but isnt nessesary
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:29am #223879

quincey hodges
yeah coaches that coach in the nba and players who have actualy played in the nba saying that the most important thing is heart and effort isnt proof. i see you knwo more then them so im done with this topic.
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- Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 8:54am #223880
  
  The Big O
  We’re the only ones on this topic, unless u got a buddy following EVERY Single post u make
  Stop GIVING urself POints!
  Ur spitting that media jargon “yeah coaches that played in the NBA said”
  Yeah Shaq can go retire today and go coach Jordan Hill and tell him to dunk on everybody and
  it will happen
  give me a break. U tell me then why non “hustle” players like Shaq have more rings than Charles Barkley or Charles Oakley or David Robinson?
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Posted on: Mon, 10/26/2009 - 9:00am #223884

The Big O
Heart and Hustle Help man but u can only give up so much
if ur a shorter PF u can make up for SOME of it with MORE WEIGHT (Brandon Bass/Maxiell) or
MORE SPEED (Gerald Wallace hustle player stuck between positions)
6’10 245 is great for OFFENSE
but not for DEFENSE
Amar’e has the Speed and athleticsm MISMATCH but what on defense come on,
Garnett is the same weight but taller and sleeker= faster and he can play ALL 5 positions
body types do matter, I study them and I study NBA history
that’s why I know u can’t give me any proof bcuz there is none .)
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Fizer’s Take: New York Knicks