This topic contains 11 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Mopgrass 7 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #69204
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

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    NBA is way too soft. Its gotten so bad nobody can even touch the opposing team on or off the ball. Even if its a blatant flop the refs dont care. Everybody abuses moving screens now. Nobody gets called for travels unless its a young guy or bigman and only on the first step or if its 4-5 steps. Its getting hard to watch and its making statlines irrelevent. 

    Im actually wondering how and when this started. When looking at NBA stats we always say before the ABA-NBA merger and after the ABA-NBA merger. The merger was 1976. I think there needs to be a third date added for whatever it is the NBA has become today.

    Everyone says Mike Dantoni’s Suns offense led by Steve Nash was what changed the NBA but Don Nelson with Golden State and George Karl with Denver were doing fast paced offenses for years. We used to call it run-n-gun offense and 2-4 teams in the league would play that style every year but it was not practical and they never won. The phrase was "you live by the three you die by the three". Nash won 2 MVP’s playing this style although those were much grittier times where defence ws actually played and the Spurs were on top.

    Ron Artest may have had a big impact as well. His "Malice in the Palice" antics, elbowing a bonafide star James Harden in the head vicously and being a constant loose cannon influenced the NBA to make an attempt to become PG.

    Steph Curry has been one of the main benefactors. To me before his ankle injuries when he played with Monta Ellis I feel the NBA still had some defensive integrity. Some grit. I feel like the league changed sometime before his MVP season 15-16 and sometime after his return from ankle injuries in 12-13.

    Russell Westbrook averaging a triple double in 16-17 is as far as it should go. Even know it was amazing something just didnt seem right about it. Same with Hardens 30-10 stat lines averaging 15 free throws a night. Both players are great and would be in any age but if you were to measure them based on stats they would both be considered top 10 players however you cant measure them based on stats because…stats are dead.

     

     

     

     

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  • #1125486
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    highflyer0
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     I really don’t understand the obsession the NBA has with fouls.  To me, a three pointer is not more entertaining than any other shot, so I don’t see why "opening up the game" is so vital.  They’re basically eliminating half of the game by declaring that defense is nonexistant.  That’s obviously a bit of an exagerration but not by much.  Does any fan actually enjoy all of these fouls? 

     I cringe every time a big gets an offensive rebound because I know a foul is coming automatically.  It’s really odd to me.  It kind of reminds me of baseball analytics.  A hundred strikeouts and five home runs is "better" than twenty singles, despite how nonsensical that seems.  Obviously, the NBA has done its research and points scored must have a direct positive correlation with revenue, regardless of how those points are scored.  I don’t understand why it works that way but it must.  I can see no other explanation for eliminating all contact. 

     The NBA is becoming a completely different game from the one played on playgrounds and open gyms, which is strange.  We wouldn’t want to play a game where there’s a foul called every thirty seconds, so why do people prefer to watch one?

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    • #1125489
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      highflyer0
      Participant

      Did some research on Basketball Reference and, interestingly enough, the 21.7 free throw attempts per game so far this year is the lowest number in NBA history.  The fact the guards are the ones getting fouled constantly rather than big men is what probably gave me the impression that there were more fouls than usual.  It still doesn’t take away from the point that perimeter defense is all but dead.

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      • #1125494
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        Thenilonator
        Participant

         That’s because all the big men are outside the arc tossing up 3’s and not trying to draw fouls the hard way/right way

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  • #1125488
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    SeattleSuperChronics
    Participant

     I agree that at times it can be painful to watch with the fouls and constant replay reviews

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    • #1125490
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      highflyer0
      Participant

       Wish they would get rid of reviews for flagrant fouls.  If it looks bad on the floor then it’s bad.  If not, oh well.  

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      • #1125508
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        SubZero
        Participant

        That’s one of my (many) pet peeves with the NBA now. They see a play that might be questionable, then they go to the replay and look to see if a guy gets grazed up near his head in slowmo and call it a flagrant. Anything’s gonna look worse in slowmo

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  • #1125506
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    2quick4u
    Participant

    The quick answer to your question "I’m actually wondering how and when this started" is, Michael Jordan.

    MJ changed the NBA like no one in history has ever done, not only he changed the game of basketball it self, but because of his retirement in 1998 the NBA had to drastically change the whole product they were selling to the world in order to make it attractive again, and therefore, they started to change the rules from 1999 to 2005 which resulted in the emergence of the Phoenix (note the symbolism) Suns, to mark the path and direction of the league, because the change of rules take time to materialize.

    In fact, MJ itself was not able to dominate the league not because of Magic or Bird or the Bad Boys, but until the change of rules that benefited him ("star system/Iso game") and created in 1981 materialized 10 years later with his 1st ring in 1991.

    That shows that no matter how good or dominant a player is, whether MJ, Chamberlain, Kareem or Lebron, if the general conditions/rules do not suit their potential they will not be able to blossom and fully express themselves and vice versa, just like tomatoes can’t really grow in winter or spinach in summer and each has to wait for their preference conditions, to fully express.

    in other words, Michael Jordan is the cause and the reason of today’s basketball, that is, of modern basketball, and Steph Curry the emergence of those changes but like MJ, Curry also had to wait until 2015 for those changes to materialize for being able to express himself and as result winning championships.

    And there we are but beware, because we are close to the end of this tendency and the bubble is about to explode; we can already see a new tendency is taking form and new "traits" are emerging; most teams are already late because they are just riding the "old" tendency.

    I think that right now the tendency is moving back again; from MJ to Curry it went from contraction-cold-ISO-slow pace-defense to expansion-hot-movement-triples-fast pace-offense, that is from the spinach of MJ to the tomatoes of Curry and now we are about to start a contraction tendency again, which means we are going to cold-defense although because still in early stages still with triples and offense.

    Because of those changes taking place, i believe that right now the East is the place to be, and more specifically Boston,Toronto and Milwaukee; we’ll see NY and also Orlando in the longer term. We’ll see where A.Davis lands. In the west only the "cold" Utah will have some chances and will be the force of that conference.

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #1125543
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      Wetalkinboutpractice
      Participant

      I would really like to talk to you in more detail about this, as far as the whole trending back towards defense thing.

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      • #1125547
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        2quick4u
        Participant

         Sure

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  • #1125548
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    BeastMode716
    Participant

     But manipulating rules so as to all but eliminate a Defenders ability even make an offensive player work is not a good move b/c it is producing completely artificial Statistics 

    Part of this is relative for example I remember the Pre Zone Defense era of Man Defense where you could put One hand on Perimeter players & Old heads when I was young would say things like this: 

    "These players today would get destroyed in the days when you could use two hands on perimeter players" 

    We all understand that the game evolves & rules change but what I think is most frustrating is that rules changes are not so much intended to make the game better but to draw in the casual fan w/ what amounts to a shiny object of non-stop Benefits to the Offensive end 

    There Is a such thing as Too far – what made the Bulls So great was watching them completely suffocate teams Defensively & the Spectacular Dunks that would be initiated from the Transition game that resulted. The Golden State Warriors are incredibly Disciplined Defensively. This has Always been the case w/ the greatest teams that they were Just as good at Both ends 

    I do Not want to Lose that b/c the NBA wants to capture higher Regular season ratings by incorporating an Anything goes philosophy at the Offensive end. I can barely stand watching the NFL any longer b/c the game is So ridiculously slanted toward the Offensive side that it all feels like a Gimmick. There is really Not much difference between old Arena League football & the NFL 

    I do Not want to see the NBA turn into a watered down version of itself b/c they are trying to make a better version of Euro-League Basketball

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #1125580
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    Mopgrass
    Participant

    A few other things that need to change: 

    I hate the “They called a foul on my defender , so I’ll pretend I was shooting.”

    I hate the three point shooter landing on someone, it somehow being called a foul on the defender, and me having to watch 3 free throws. 

     I hate offensive players Euro stepping into defenders and as they bounce off the defender with their next step, and shoot, the ref calls a foul on the defender (every James Harden play ever). 

    I hate that no one rebounds on offense anymore and guys jack up 3’s when there’s no one on their team anywhere near the rim. 

     

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