This topic contains 4 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by mcbailey 8 years ago.
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- Posted on: Wed, 06/06/2018 - 3:33am #68567

ropeParticipantJust reading the review on Charles Bassey at this weeks and event. He is coveted in this class because he is big and strong and has a post game. Then I was projected forward a year and thinking how these will likely be viewed almost as limitations in a year, when he is getting draft consideration.
What I wondered is if you think the NBA and other levels of basketball should take some steps to re-emphasize post play? If so, what might they be? It is so sorely lacking in today’s game, it makes it hard for me to watch sometimes.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 06/06/2018 - 4:10am #1118752
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantCall me crazy, but I actually but I actually don’t think post play is dead at all and is just as coveted now as it has been in prior eras. Guys like Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, Demarcus cousins, Marc Gasol, Karl Anthony towns, lamarcus aldridge etc. are all high level post players who their respective teams run their offense through due to their ability to score on the block and draw double teams. Even high level wings like lebron, Durant, Giannis, kawhi are all highly proficient scoring in the post and spend a decent amount of time operating from there.
What is basically dead in this current era of basketball is the post up specialist who brings nothing else to the table, the Jahlil Okafor types. Guys who can’t really do anything and basically serve no purpose on the court besides being guys that you dump the ball into and they go to work on their man. These are guys that clog driving lanes, make it easy to double team because they can’t space the floor and can be easily exploited on defense. In the past, guys like Okafor may have been able to function as al Jefferson types but that style of offense has just proven to be too inefficient in today’s game.
So in short, I believe post play is as valuable as ever, but you need other skills to go with it to survive in today’s game.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 06/06/2018 - 5:25am #1118756

Taylor Gang MikeParticipantPost play is still relevant today. Take a look at the past drafts, bigs are still getting drafted. If bigs were not important then they wouldnt be taken 1 or 2
0 - Posted on: Wed, 06/06/2018 - 7:11am #1118759
Memphis MadnessParticipantYou need bigs who can run the floor, defend, block shots, protect the paint, hit the 3, and throw down alley-oops. Post-games help but they aren’t the key anymore.
What I would bring back: post games by wings/guards: MJ and Kobe were devastating out of the post.
Not that it is leaving the game, but I would emphasize that. KD can do it pretty well, too.
If Porter gets a post game then he will end up being the best wing out of this draft class.
If I ended up with Doncic on my team I am actually playing him as a point combo forward and posting him up a lot then try to find mismatches against opposing forwards.
Mikal Bridges is an IDEAL candidate to implement a post game.
I almost think you can get more points out of your wings/guards posting up than you can your bigs. Bigs are more likely to get hacked without getting the calls — and wings/guards are better at passing out of the double teams. Plus a wing/guard who is posting up can dump it down to the big man on the baseline for a quick move/dunk.
You need versatility on both defense and offense these days, even though we have recently had designations like the 3 and D wing and the Stretch 4. New designations will probably be the Point Combo Forward and the unicorn of unicorns — the 3 And D Stretch Center — one reason why Bamba and Jaren Jackson, Jr. are moving up the draft boards.
Of a playoff 7 1/2 man or 8 man rotation, I think you have a point guard/primary ball handler, and your big/center which you use for 80% of the offense and rebounding then a "wing" and two 2-way combo forwards aka the Small Forward and the Artist formerly known as the 4 man — now you can probably call him the Not-So-Small-Forward.
New backups: if the Point Combo Forward doesn’t start then he comes off the bench. Same with the 3 And D Stretch 5 (paying homage to Chris Bosh). If not, then you can bring that off the bench or go with a Super Small Ball Stretch 4 aka a guy who used to play the 3. The Utility Combo Forward Defensive Specialist is 6’8 or 6’9 and comes off the bench to guard a bit of everything from all spots on the court. Think, poor man’s Dennis Rodman but without the elite rebounding or elite weirdo factor, so Vincent Askew?
The Microwave Position: yeah, classic combo guards who can do some of everything AND shoot and score off the bench make for pricey 6th men — basically a luxury. So, why not just get guys who can basically just shoot/score in limited minutes off the bench? Yeah, you wanna get a Vinnie Johnson, but you settle for a Craig Hodges or a Steve Kerr. Rob Gray of Houston Cougars fame could be that guy in this draft. Oh, gimme a Junkyard Five: a backup backup center who hits people in the face and throws elbows. Also specializes in defensive rebounding, post defense, and inbounding the basketball. Great case studies include: Greg Kite, basically anybody on the 90’s Bulls title teams INCLUDING late model James Edwards and John Salley, Pachulia of current vintage, Kendrick Perkins who oddily isn’t dressed out. Kurt Rambis woulda been the Junkyard Five GOAT if he had been taller although in today’s "small" NBA Rambis 2.0 could be the IDEAL Junkyard Five. Wow. Almost forgot Tree Rollins. Yeah, be good to the environment and go out and get a Tree Rollins.
YMCA point guard: why spend money on a backup point guard if you don’t have to. Just go out and sign Nick Calathes. Bonus points for playing in Europe and balding. Just go out and sign Nick Calathes.
Defensive/Quick Backup Backup Point Guard: yeah, lock down defensive-minded, speedy backup point guards are too pricey. So, get the 5-10 minute a night version. The 5’11 dude instead of the 6’2 bench mob stud. Quick, defense, can dribble, throw an entry pass now and then, an alley-oop pass of the month club type of guy. I am looking at YOU Chris Chiozza!
G League 2 Way Contract Shane Battier: Mr. Battier could give you 8 and 5 every night — as the 4th guy on a Mega Big 3 in Miami or as the 2nd option on a Pau Gasol-led Grizz squad without a true first option. Battier was 6’10 and could hit the 3. He could also guard all five positions somewhat. Well, G League 2 Way Contract Shane Battier goes for 6 points and 6’6 a night whether you need it or not. Can’t guard all five positions but can foul ’em all just fine. Money from 15 feet (in practice). Can find the Gatorade machine blindfolded.
The first coach who can successfully merge the pick and roll offense with the triangle offense (more emphasis on ball movement, cuts, post ups, mid-range shots, multiple creators, angles, and spacing) can build a dynasty.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 06/06/2018 - 10:33am #1118763
mcbaileyParticipantThe stigma against "traditional post players" isn’t about offense, it’s defense. You can cover a big man’s slow feet with a scheme, like those Frank Vogel Pacers teams did with Hibbert. Players like Hill, George, and a stable Lance would rush and at times overplay the perimeter shooters and draw them closer to Roy so he could clean it up at the rim. Speaking of which, if you ever wondered how the hell Roy Hibbert ever got a triple double with blocks, it’s because of that. Crazy times.
Honestly, modern basketball is weird because we like to think that math hasn’t always existed. Yes, the three-point shot is worth more, and is a fairly efficient shot when you really crunch the numbers, but the fact that the Warriors (and to a lesser extent, the Rockets) have had amazing success with it has made everyone stupid. If you have the personnel to do that pace and space stuff, do it, but don’t copy just to copy. A team could still succeed with a good post player (or mid-range shooter, for that matter), but some teams look at a seven footer who can’t shoot a three and consider him irrelevant.
tl;dr: The problem isn’t that post play is dead or outdated or even inefficient, but mainly with schemes and lack of coaching creativity.
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