This topic contains 16 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar bdmote 9 years, 2 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #66059
    AvatarAvatar
    bdmote
    Participant

     Lets look at some numbers here from 2009 to 2013  we have had 5 allstars(Derozan,J-Wall, Boogie,Kyrie,and The Brow) come out after one year of ball in college but after at least 2 years we have had 13( Blake, Harden, Steph, Teauge, Hayward, Paul George, Kemba, Klay, Kwahi, Butler, Lilard, Isiah Thomas, and Draymond). There is no denying that the nba is worse skillwise than it was in the 70’s,80’s, and 90’s. Players now come out as freshmen and lack skill and struggle and some of them never make it. Now lets look at the top 3 rookies this year Saric, Brogdan, and Embiid. Embiid came out as a freshmen in 2014 he is just now playing his fist year so he has had time to watch and get stronger he is technically a 23 year old rookie that is also the same age as a college senior, Saric was also drafted in 2014 he is now in his rookie season at the age of 22 years old junior or senior age. Malcom Brogdon is 24 years old and he came out as a senior and is by far better than any other drafted above him in 2016. My point is college coaches are great because the teach the game so well and develope players if you make the players stay in college a little longer they will become better players at the next level and make the NBA better.

    0
  • #1095169
    AvatarAvatar
    Anton123
    Participant

    Okay, Brogdon is doing better than his fellow rookies, but Otto Porter is playing better than Brogdon and is a year younger. Point is, does the NBA gain that much if the players develop away from the league? Players start to become major contrubutors at around the same age anyway, are we better off as viewers if the players become better in leagues we don’t watch rather than in the NBA?

    Teams are cetainly better off because they draft finished products for very little money, but the players lose loads of cash. If the NBA bans the one-and-done, we will see the NCAA losing loads of players, basically the NCAA will be a bunch of rich kids and middling talent that couldn’t get offers overseas. So stars like Michael Porter Jr. will be playing three years for Barcelona and most Americans won’t get to see him for those three years at all instead of seeing him play a year of college and then slowly progressing on an NBA team.

    0
  • #1095170
    AvatarAvatar
    Anton123
    Participant

     Your point that we didn’t have many all-star freshmen drafted between 2009 and 2013 is a little silly, because if you look at the 2009 draft, for example, it had 2 freshmen in the lottery, 50% of these freshmen have become an all-star (Derozan), while Tyreke Evans was the rookie of the year. If anything, this is a point for having more freshmen come out.

    0
  • #1095171
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

     Its not the One and Done thats the problem.. Its the AAU system thats the problem.. Ive coached international players and obviously American players, I was blown away how much basketball theory international talent understand at a young age.. Lots of times College Coaches are the first introduction for American players to Basketball Theory..

    0
    • #1095177
      AvatarAvatar
      mopo
      Participant

      The game is changing rapidly. What makes you think that a random HS coach is more capable of teaching relevant skills than an AAU coach would be?

       

      If anything, the AAU program would need to be cutting edge to attract the best talent.

       

      0
      • #1095183
        Robb_CRobb_C
        Robb_C
        Participant

         You just proved my point with that comment.. 

        0
    • #1095186
      AvatarAvatar
      dmo21
      Participant

      I don’t know a whole lot about AAU ball, but from the things I’ve heard it doesn’t sound very good. Just kids running around playing ISO ball trying to showcase themselves instead of winning. And teams are kinda ran by brands?

      Well I was thinking maybe they should run it like Canada runs hockey for the same age group (I feel like Canadian hockey is very comparable yo USA basketball). Some of the specifics might be wrong as I’ve never been a part of hockey, but I’m Canadian so I know a bit. So here we go:

      So there is a major midget league (high school kids) that has regional teams that compete against each other. There are lower level midget teams, but this is the most competitive. Positives from this is you don’t have high schools making super teams (have to play in your region) and the kids usually have decent coaches (not just a teacher at the high school). Also, the year before midget (age 14), the rights to players are drafted by the Major Junior teams.

      Then you have the junior leagues which are ages 16-20 (if you’re good enough in high school, you can play with these teams). There’s Major Junior, Junior A and Junior B. Not gonna talk about Junior B as it’s just for guys that age that aren’t great but still wanna play competitive.

      Major Junior is the top league. Players get paid a bit, have really good coaches and be called up to the big league. Once you play in this league, you can’t go to the NCAA. Also, players aged 18-20 can be drafted by the big league (NHL/NBA). However, if you’re drafted you can still play in this league (and then it’s like a minor league system).

      Junior A is a step below Major Junior. They can still be drafted, have good coaches and I believe get so much money towards schooling for each year played in the league. Players from this league can then go play NCAA (even if they’ve been drafted).

      I feel like a system like this helps solve the problems of US high school and AAU basketball. Young players consistently play against top competition, good coaches all the way, can get drafted and still play in the “minor” leagues and players get some sort of payment.

      0
  • #1095172
    AvatarAvatar
    jjj10man
    Participant

     First of all most people would say basketball today is far better than the 70s and 80s, and this is the best or 2nd best era of basketball next to the early 90s.

    People say this all the time, and my response will always be this: What makes you think you will be better as a basketball player plaing 35~ games against a handful of NBA players compared to 80+ games against all NBA players?

    You look at this year as an example, but ignore the fact that 2015 had alot of great players all one and done (or 19 year old europeans)

    One and Done players are the best in the NBA by your statistics, you say it’s 5 – 13, but you pit Freshmen against Sophmores, Juniors, and Seniors. So Actually the Freshman have 5 players and the other 3 classes didn’t average 15 which they would if they were equal to Freshman. 

    The NBA needs to allow you to draft players when ever they want. If a NBA team thinks Michael Porter can help them right now, they should be able to draft him if he enters his name, and he should be able to play for them.

     

     

     

     

     

    0
    • #1095173
      AvatarAvatar
      bdmote
      Participant

      Guys now are more athletic but they are not better BASKETBALL players. And the NBA now Plays Shit defense so scoring 50 isnt rare anymore give it to the guys who did it they can score but come on that shit wasnt going to happen back in the day because you would be denied the damn ball the rest of the game after you had 30. this is one of the worst ages of basketball because guys are so damn athletic but dont ever really devolpe a lot of skill you can say names like what about Steph or Klay or Harden yeah there are other guys who have skill but i would say there ar less than 20 whos skill matchs guys from the 70,80, and 90’s

      0
  • #1095174
    AvatarAvatar
    sweaterflex
    Participant

    An effective way to bridge this problem is to have a skip college or stay two years program. A large number of the current one and dones would have gone pro straight from high school, and a surprisingly large number of the players who left high school to go to the pros have done very well (Johnathan Abrams has a great book on the subject). The system would be tough for players who surprised by going one and done (D’Angelo Russell, Marquesse Chriss, etc), but many of those players would not have suffered from another year in school, and the college game would be measurably improved, reducing the incentive to be a pro hoops factory like Duke and UK have been the last few years.

    0
  • #1095175
    AvatarAvatar
    sweaterflex
    Participant

    An effective way to bridge this problem is to have a skip college or stay two years program. A large number of the current one and dones would have gone pro straight from high school, and a surprisingly large number of the players who left high school to go to the pros have done very well (Johnathan Abrams has a great book on the subject). The system would be tough for players who surprised by going one and done (D’Angelo Russell, Marquesse Chriss, etc), but many of those players would not have suffered from another year in school, and the college game would be measurably improved, reducing the incentive to be a pro hoops factory like Duke and UK have been the last few years.

    0
  • #1095182
    AvatarAvatar
    Magic Jordan
    Participant

     Sure, if the College game wants to start paying it’s players then force them to stay there.  Otherwise, these kids have a right to make a living like anybody else does.  If college won’t pay, then go overseas.

    If we want to encourage players to stay stateside.  Let kids fresh out of highschool enter the draft, don’t make them go to college and instead force them to play in the G League for a year or two.  In this case, the League.. not the NCAA gets to profit off of the young athletes and the atheletes actually get paid what most would be getting paid after a year in the NCAA anyways.  The G League would be lit.

    Of course good luck selling NBA franchises on this idea as who wants to pay top prospect money for a player that won’t even be on their team for a few years.

     

     

     

     

    0
  • #1095184
    AvatarAvatar
    Memphis Madness
    Participant

     The top players in the NBA are absolutely unstoppable. They are VIDEO GAME players. 

    As a whole, players are shooting 3’s at a higher rate than some guys hit on layups back in the 50’s (might be exaggerating but whatever).

    NBA players are optimizing their games with the rules they are given. It’s a 3 pointer league. Widen the lane, change the shot clock to 30 seconds, and get rid of the 3 pointer (or ban the 3 but replace it with a further out 4 point arc) and you will see a different game. 

    What do critics mean by a lack of fundamentals anyway? Guys can’t dribble? 

    I think a lot of guys aren’t good off the ball. Their court awareness could be better. I think some of the problem is being OVER COACHED. Basketball is like chess. Memorize a few moves, and some theory, then let the game evolve. Awareness is key. Be in the moment.

    0
  • #1095188
    AvatarAvatar
    TopShotta
    Participant

    There shouldn’t be any restrictions on players coming out of high school, let alone this foolish one and done rule. If guys aren’t good enough they won’t make the league. If guys are good enough they will make it. 

    0
  • #1095189
    AvatarAvatar
    Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
    Participant

     If the NBA doesn’t want one and done players and they are ruining the league than the answer is pretty simple imo. Stop drafting them. But we all know that will never happen so instead the suggestion is for the NBA to put a rule in place to protect gms from themselves. It’s just hypocritical. There is a very short window for NBA players to earn money and there is no guarantee of how long that window will stay open. One injury and it could be over. Potentially millions gone just like that. I thought the original one and done rule was exploitative and for them to extend it to 2 years or more would be even worse.

    This constant idea that is being shoved down our throats by old-timers that the skill level and quality of play is somehow decreasing is just ridiculous. I have been watching the NBA for 25 years and I would say that the overall skill level of the players is probably better now than it’s ever been. The game is evolving rapidly and we are seeing things and players with physical gifts and skill sets we have never seen before. The league is certainly not hurting. Some skills (like low post scoring) are becoming more scarce but there are still plenty of players in the league that can do that and do it well. It’s just been determined thats not always the most efficient way to play. We are seeing better spacing, ball movement, creative offensive sets and less isolation ball than at any point in modern NBA history right now.

    The idea that only college coaches can develop players is outdated as well. There are plenty of players who come into the league with questionable skill sets and develop into completely different players once they get to the league. The best way to improve is by being tested by the best players are there is no better league in the world than the NBA. The NBA has its own minor league system now as well which didn’t exist in previous generations for players who need to develop and aren’t ready for the league. 

    I just don’t see any logical reason for the NBA to extend the age limit, other than giving gms more time to evaluate players to prevent them from making bad decisions and the NCAA to profit more.

     

     

     

    0
  • #1095211
    AvatarAvatar
    xJumpManx
    Participant

    Personally it made the draft more fun. Sure their was more busts but isnt that on the scouting dept for each team. Your drafted in the first round of the draft  that money sets you up for quite awhile.

    0
    • #1095212
      AvatarAvatar
      bdmote
      Participant

       Its not on the scouting Dept. cause adam morrison looked great in college and couldnt do much at all in the nba so its not on the scouting dept and what about the guys who bust out of highschool what are they gonna do with no education once their money they got from their team who drafted them is gone we need to protect these young men aswell as make the nba competive.

      0

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login