This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by
r377 9 years, 6 months ago.
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- Posted on: Mon, 11/28/2016 - 8:06pm #65316
ChicagoCaseyParticipantI know they are losing, but this is the type of direction the Heat needed to go towards. If they would’ve kept Wade, Deng, and Joe Johnson they would’ve been stuck for years and they would’ve ended up wasting years like the Lakers did with Kobe. Also, I didn’t want this next couple of years to be like the Joe Johnson led Hawks teams when they were just good enough to make it out the second round. That’s just being mediocre. People may want to knock the 76ers approach, but they ended up with a cornerstone in Joel Embiid and great/promising prospect in Ben Simmons. Those two have superstar potential. You have to lose some and get top picks to be top level contenders. I rather lose at the start of the rebuild to build up to the future than stay mediocre while watching a fading superstar.
If I’m the Heat I would try to trade Goran Dragic to get something in return. I would do that because the Heat have to look to draft a franchise level point guard. I would lock in on Markelle Fultz, while the back-up plan would be Lonzo Ball. The Heat need a total try to build through the draft now and try to get stars via the draft.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 1:00am #1088871

Mr. HookShotParticipantIf you follow the 76ers’ approach and lose for the next two or three seasons, what good is it to have Whiteside? I think he has massive value now, and trading him would net a very, very good return which would speed up their rebuilding process tremendously. Besides Whiteside, Justice Winslow is their only other building block so they need a lot of solid draft picks in next couple of years in order to become a good team again.
All in all, while I understand the 76ers’ approach and several examples show it can be succesfull (see the Thunder, who got massive talent via the draft), there are much more examples of teams suffering through losing seasons in order to get high draft picks, waste the draft picks (or mess up the talent development), and stay stuck at the bottom for decades (see: Kings). I think the Spurs, but also the Hawks, are the better blueprint for teams trying to build a championship team and organization. Sure, not everybody has their own Popovich, but the Hawks found one and they have been solid for the past couple of seasons and, despite their recent losses, I can see them going to the ECF. So for teams looking to build a succesful team they need to start at the top (organization, head coach, player development, scouts etc.) and create a culture in which players are challenged to improve their game and in which players are thought that winning is the end-goal (not just player development!).
0- Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 4:29am #1088879
ChicagoCaseyParticipantI just don’t see the Hawks as championship contenders. They probably will make the ECF, but they probably will only win one or two teams agaisnt Cleveland. They have a respectable organization, but they aren’t built for championships. And we need to take a step back and understand that the Spurs are not the Spurs if they didn’t get Tim Duncan with the no.1 pick and get David Robinson. They have the best organization, but they need big time building blocks to get to championship level contending. The Kings are the Browns, they just don’t know what they are doing. I wouldn’t compare any other team to that mess of a franchise.
I’m with you with trading Whiteside. He’s 28 years old and could get you a solid pick and/or a good young veteran . And I believe Josh Richardson and Justise Winslow are the two untouchable pieces and the pieces to build around with the upcoming picks that the Heat will have.
0- Posted on: Wed, 11/30/2016 - 3:14am #1088925

Mr. HookShotParticipantI think the Hawks could be one Cleveland injury away from the Finals. I truly believe that they can compete with the best in the East, and give that their team is still young enough to improve (also because Howard just joined their team) I can see them growing in the next couple of years.
Having said that, I would rather be a respectable team with a chance for a championship than going for an extensive rebuild based on some lotery balls!
0- Posted on: Wed, 11/30/2016 - 3:57am #1088926
Hype MachineCmon man. No one is that naive that the NBA lets the Hawks roll the Cavs in a game 7.
Hypothetical.
On a scale of 0 (battering ram) to 10 (The Mona Lisa), how untouchable would Lebron be in that game?
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- Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 2:43am #1088876
binetParticipantI don’t think Dragic is worth anything right now. He probably was at the end of last season but he is aging and still quite expensive even with the new cap. He is a decent player but not truly elite and he is entering the wrong side of 30. Talking about Philadelphia, I think aging guys like him should perhaps stay in order to develop your young guys better rather than getting you below average ROI like a second rounder or whatever he is worth.
If tanking is the route though, I think trading Whiteside could net you really good returns, and could even be replaced by a good young big in exchange of Dragic from the sixers.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 7:18am #1088887

MatosParticipantRichardson is not untoachable. In fact they may be able to trade Whiteside (28 years old) and Richardson for a promising young player like CJ McCollum. It would help both teams. Blazers get Lilliard some front court help, and the heat get younger + CJ can be the #1 option.
0- Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 11:48am #1088900
ChicagoCaseyParticipantThe thing is, why would the Blazers do that? CJ been much better than Dame this season and Whiteside won’t be enough to sway Portland to trade for him. They would look for a pick or two for him. Also, they could get a younger player than Whiteside that is on the market and is more affordable in Nerlens Noel.
The teams I would try to trade him to is Dallas, Houston, Hornets, and the Pelicans.
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- Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 1:13pm #1088903

r377ParticipantWhats happening with Chris Bosh ? They still have to pay him
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 2:33pm #1088907

HitsterParticipantIf the Heat are going to have a bad season it probably needs to be this year as they owe a top 7 protected pick to Phoenix in 2018 which becomes unprotected in 2019 and another first rounder to the Suns in 2021. Plus all 2nd rounders bar 2018 up to and including 2021 have been traded away. They have no picks incoming at this moment so Pat Riley may have to wheel and deal if they do go into rebuild.
The one good thing for the Heat is that they will always be an attractive FA location – good coach/front office, nice weather, attractive tax rate which could sway a few players their way.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 2:46pm #1088908

Andv1 WaitingParticipantSo this year is essentially the first year of the heat rebuild/post D-wade era.
This is what I try would do if I was Riley lol:
Keep Justise W,Tyler J and Dion Waiters(he is going to be a vet the time his next deal finishes and seems to fit spos system)
Trade Hassan at the mid way point for as many assets as possible the teams I could see working:
Boston,Pelicans,Mavericks,Trail Blazers,Lakers,Suns could all have needs for him.
The most likely though would probably be Boston: They give Amir Johnson(expiring deal),one of Jaylen brown or Jae crowder and the brooklyn 2017 pick for Hassan whiteside and a trade exception of like 5 million dollars( I think that is the difference in salary). The reason the Heat do this is to dump some salary off the books, to get a good assest in either crowder or Brown and the main piece is the brooklyn pick.
Reason the Celtics do this is to play Al at the PF position(his natural position) and they get a bit younger but still fit current timeline..
Then trade Dragic to a team in need of a starting caliber PG Teams that may want him:Teams that may fit him: Dallas(to replace often injured D-will),Pelicans(losing all there pgs possibly next off season),Timberwolves(Maybe if Dragic can play reasonable defense),The magic(may choose to move on from elfrid),Pistons(could use him as 6th man),Kings and Pacers..
This is a deal could get it done and I think most teams benefit:
Detroit get: Ben Mclemore(RFA which helps cover them if KCP wants to leave)
OKC get: Rudy gay(upgrades Sf/pf position depending on what is used)
Sacrameto get: Goran dragic and Kyle Singler(they uprgrade the PG and cover for other two leaving)they will need to upgrade Sf next season though
Miami get:WCS(you essentially get a youngerr hassan if developed right),Stanley Johnson and Cam Payne(They get a sh*t ton younger) and a lot cheaper to..
So this gives the Heat: Jaylen brown or Jae crowder(would prefer crowder so you can play PF though),stanley Johnson,Cam payne,Amir Johnson and a pick for Hassan and Goran. This move should also give the heat some cap flex(if bosh deal don’t come off the books)
The heat could then have a lineup like this:
WCS or Amir if you keep him
Jae crowder
Justise
Dion Waiters
The best available Pg that you can pick(So either Lonzo bal or Dennis smith,would have put Markelle but I see him more of Sg)
Bench:
Amir or WCS,F.A PF or Drafted rookie P.F(lower of the heat/nets pick),Stanley johnson,Tyler J and Cam Payne..
By getting alot younger you also get a couple of years to see who sticks or who is traded/not brought back, this covers you with some youth due to picks riley has traded away(2018,2021) and then go free agent hunting when some big names come up that may suit in 2018/2019 or 2019/2020..
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/29/2016 - 3:12pm #1088909

HitsterParticipantWhiteside to Boston looks a nice trade idea so +1 from me. One note I’d make on this trade is that I don’t see Danny Ainge pulling the trigger until he knows where the Nets pick swap will end up in case he misses out on a top prospect or until he and his brains trust have fully considered all 2017’s likely high draft entries. Plus Boston might want to save cap space for 2017 FA market too.
Also a lot will depend on the Bosh situation if the Heat get some cap relief on his salary.
Would the Pacers consider Whiteside I wonder and possibly use him and Turner as a twin towers with Thad from the bench, they own all their first rounders and could send shortish contracts to the Heat.
Dallas again own all their picks and might want a quick rebuild.
The other wildcard was the Bucks – a young developing team, own their picks going forward, Greg Monroe player option next season so he could be used in a trade. Don’t forget Monroe is still only 26 and a skilled big so Miami might like him if a nice package was sent with him. But Pat Riley would likely want Maker as part of it which Bucks might be reluctant to do.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 12/01/2016 - 8:05am #1088992

r377ParticipantPossible Dragic trades I thought of
To Bucks for Delly and Henson / Vaughn / Snell / Brogdon / Teletovic
To Magic for Payton and Green / Hezonja / Gordon / Ibaka / Biyombo
To Pistons for Ish Smith, Ellenson and a contract
To Raps for Cory Joseph (who can run a team) and Ross / Wright / 2Pat / Sullinger
To Kings for Collison and Mclemore / MCS / Gay
To Grizzles for Baldwin, Martin/Green and a contract
To Bulls for Rondo / MCW / Grant and Gibson / Mirotic
To Washington with Johnson / Winslow / Richardson / Waiters for John Wall
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