Buddy Hield Vs Grayson Allen Vs Denzel Valentine

Hmm..Im not sure about any of these guys as starters because they seem relatively easy to lock down with a Dante Exum/MCW type long defender. This isn’t a cheapshot…they’ll have solid pro careers.

Grayson Allen could be a nice bench go-to scorer because he could abuse weaker/smaller defenders and milk free throws if against Enes Kanter level rim protection. 

Buddy Heild would be a perfect Patty Mills type gunner off the bench, or alongside a play-making wing who can draw double teams and kick it out to him. His shooting will translate, but I can’t see him creating his own shot or for others at NBA starter level. 

Valentine I dont mind as a mid 1st rounder for a playoff team. Plays hard, better defense than the others and contributed in a lot of different ways. Maybe a rotation guy..but not a starter for me.

Hmm..Im not sure about any of these guys as starters because they seem relatively easy to lock down with a Dante Exum/MCW type long defender. This isn’t a cheapshot…they’ll have solid pro careers.

Grayson Allen could be a nice bench go-to scorer because he could abuse weaker/smaller defenders and milk free throws if against Enes Kanter level rim protection. 

Buddy Heild would be a perfect Patty Mills type gunner off the bench, or alongside a play-making wing who can draw double teams and kick it out to him. His shooting will translate, but I can’t see him creating his own shot or for others at NBA starter level. 

Valentine I dont mind as a mid 1st rounder for a playoff team. Plays hard, better defense than the others and contributed in a lot of different ways. Maybe a rotation guy..but not a starter for me.

Buddy Hield to me could turn out to be something like Monta Ellis who takes better shots. I like him that much

Denzel Valentine, although I admittedly haven’t seen him too much, reminds me of a poor man’s Brandon Roy. Like a role player version

I’m not a huge fan of Grayson Allen for the next level. He can shoot and is pretty athletic, but it seems like all he does is run as fast as he can at the goal, jump as high as he can, and throw it at the rim. He’s a 2-3 dribble kind of player. I could see him being an 8th-10th man, but I just don’t think his play style will work very well in the NBA

I haven’t seen too much of Valentine and haven’t really studied Allen although I have seen him more, so if you know more about them and disagree, I’d love to hear why I’m wrong

Buddy Hield to me could turn out to be something like Monta Ellis who takes better shots. I like him that much

Denzel Valentine, although I admittedly haven’t seen him too much, reminds me of a poor man’s Brandon Roy. Like a role player version

I’m not a huge fan of Grayson Allen for the next level. He can shoot and is pretty athletic, but it seems like all he does is run as fast as he can at the goal, jump as high as he can, and throw it at the rim. He’s a 2-3 dribble kind of player. I could see him being an 8th-10th man, but I just don’t think his play style will work very well in the NBA

I haven’t seen too much of Valentine and haven’t really studied Allen although I have seen him more, so if you know more about them and disagree, I’d love to hear why I’m wrong

 Grayson will be a good pro!!! he is the player that plays like monte Ellis!!!! If I had to rank them It would be 1.allen 2. valentine 3.hield!!!!! 

 Grayson will be a good pro!!! he is the player that plays like monte Ellis!!!! If I had to rank them It would be 1.allen 2. valentine 3.hield!!!!! 

 Do you guys think Allen could play a Reddick role in the NBA if he expands his game the way JJ did after a couple years in the league?

 Do you guys think Allen could play a Reddick role in the NBA if he expands his game the way JJ did after a couple years in the league?

 Allen is going to have to do an overhaul on his game to stick in the league, similar to Redick.  As of now his whole game is predicated on bulldoozing himself into the lane while throwing his head back and flailing his arms in the air, then getting to the line, and open jumpshots.  He needs to play honestly.  Needs to work on ball handling, pull ups from mid range and not flopping.  Right now I could see him making a sports center not top 10 for throwing the ball over the backboard on one of his unconcious tunnel vision drives in the NBA.

Coming into college, I questioned whether he had the mentality to be a go-to scorer in college as many times on the circuit I saw him take the backseat to Joel Berry and De’Angelo Russell, despite being the best athlete of the bunch.  He has more than answered my question in college as he has become relentless and uber competitive out on the floor.  He has the highest upside out of the 3, but of the 3 is the least skilled at the moment.  His killer instinct and drive if put into working on other aspects of his game should make him a solid starter IMHO.  

Neg away.  

 Allen is going to have to do an overhaul on his game to stick in the league, similar to Redick.  As of now his whole game is predicated on bulldoozing himself into the lane while throwing his head back and flailing his arms in the air, then getting to the line, and open jumpshots.  He needs to play honestly.  Needs to work on ball handling, pull ups from mid range and not flopping.  Right now I could see him making a sports center not top 10 for throwing the ball over the backboard on one of his unconcious tunnel vision drives in the NBA.

Coming into college, I questioned whether he had the mentality to be a go-to scorer in college as many times on the circuit I saw him take the backseat to Joel Berry and De’Angelo Russell, despite being the best athlete of the bunch.  He has more than answered my question in college as he has become relentless and uber competitive out on the floor.  He has the highest upside out of the 3, but of the 3 is the least skilled at the moment.  His killer instinct and drive if put into working on other aspects of his game should make him a solid starter IMHO.  

Neg away.  

 Hield is top 5 in my book.  I would think about taking him at 3.

Grayson Allen is a guy you look at with the 10th pick.  He’s 15 on this board.  Late first round he would be a steal.  

Havent watched Valentine as much.  Probably one of those guys in the 10 to 25 range.  Allen might have more upside.  

 Hield is top 5 in my book.  I would think about taking him at 3.

Grayson Allen is a guy you look at with the 10th pick.  He’s 15 on this board.  Late first round he would be a steal.  

Havent watched Valentine as much.  Probably one of those guys in the 10 to 25 range.  Allen might have more upside.  

I like comparisons, so I will through a few out that I think match the player and the potential career.

Buddy Hield – Randy Foye, now Foye has had some really good years, I see Hield as that 10-12ppg guy in the line-up who can shoot and do a little bit of everything else, but he is out there to stretch the floor and get a few buckets as a starter or 6th man on a relatively competitive team.

Grayson Allen – Shannon Brown, now the way I look at Brown is a guy with a lot of potential, but just lacking in some areas. Allen like Brown has all the tools, but for some reason I don’t see him quite putting it all together. I think he has a serviceable career as a back-up 2 and may find himself with a few DNP if he gets in a team with good depth.

Denzel Valentine – Evan Turner, Valentine can do a bit of everything and relatively well. Offensively I see the likeness to Turner, however defensively he shows a better ability which could make him a consistent starter one day. He would be a great 2nd unit leader at either guard spot and potentially the 3 he could carve out a role like Turner has in Boston, or be even better.

I like comparisons, so I will through a few out that I think match the player and the potential career.

Buddy Hield – Randy Foye, now Foye has had some really good years, I see Hield as that 10-12ppg guy in the line-up who can shoot and do a little bit of everything else, but he is out there to stretch the floor and get a few buckets as a starter or 6th man on a relatively competitive team.

Grayson Allen – Shannon Brown, now the way I look at Brown is a guy with a lot of potential, but just lacking in some areas. Allen like Brown has all the tools, but for some reason I don’t see him quite putting it all together. I think he has a serviceable career as a back-up 2 and may find himself with a few DNP if he gets in a team with good depth.

Denzel Valentine – Evan Turner, Valentine can do a bit of everything and relatively well. Offensively I see the likeness to Turner, however defensively he shows a better ability which could make him a consistent starter one day. He would be a great 2nd unit leader at either guard spot and potentially the 3 he could carve out a role like Turner has in Boston, or be even better.

Hield was underrated, he’s now overrated as fuck.

A lot of things in his game won’t cut it in the nba.

A great college player is not necessarily a good nba player…

Allen is a sparkplug, he could end as a better waiters/rivers, though, i like the person as much as i liked them…

Valentine is Diaw as a guard, he’ll help any team, he could run  his own 2nd unit with a scoring point, shooters, athletes.

Teams like the pistons and bulls badly need a guy like that, a playmaker…

Hield was underrated, he’s now overrated as fuck.

A lot of things in his game won’t cut it in the nba.

A great college player is not necessarily a good nba player…

Allen is a sparkplug, he could end as a better waiters/rivers, though, i like the person as much as i liked them…

Valentine is Diaw as a guard, he’ll help any team, he could run  his own 2nd unit with a scoring point, shooters, athletes.

Teams like the pistons and bulls badly need a guy like that, a playmaker…

Hard to think of many players that averaged 20+ a game at duke that didnt have a nice career. Allen should go late lottery. Hes better then Nik Stauskas 

Hard to think of many players that averaged 20+ a game at duke that didnt have a nice career. Allen should go late lottery. Hes better then Nik Stauskas 

I was never a huge fan of Stauskas coming out of college.  Thought he got drafted way too high.  Of course it could just be that Kings’ curse.  B-Mac hasn’t played well there, neither did Jimmer and Stauskas never even got the chance.

But back to the three on this thread.  I like all three guys.  I think Valentine might be the player that sticks in the league the longest, but I didn’t think JJ would stick around this long and he’s proven me wrong by transforming his game.

I don’t think any of the three are lottery potential right now.  Grayson could be if he stayed and worked on his overall game next season and grew an inch or two.  But he won’t put up these kind of numbers next year when their roster will be back to normal with a ton of depth.

I was never a huge fan of Stauskas coming out of college.  Thought he got drafted way too high.  Of course it could just be that Kings’ curse.  B-Mac hasn’t played well there, neither did Jimmer and Stauskas never even got the chance.

But back to the three on this thread.  I like all three guys.  I think Valentine might be the player that sticks in the league the longest, but I didn’t think JJ would stick around this long and he’s proven me wrong by transforming his game.

I don’t think any of the three are lottery potential right now.  Grayson could be if he stayed and worked on his overall game next season and grew an inch or two.  But he won’t put up these kind of numbers next year when their roster will be back to normal with a ton of depth.

I’m not a fan of Allen. He seems to be the typical college player and i am not sure he can translate at the next level. Valentine is more complete player, he can do many things, i agree he is near to Brandon Roy, not so strong. Buddy is amazing, but i have to admit i cannot undestand how good he can be in the NBA, i suspect that stronger players could heavily affect his efficiency.

I’m not a fan of Allen. He seems to be the typical college player and i am not sure he can translate at the next level. Valentine is more complete player, he can do many things, i agree he is near to Brandon Roy, not so strong. Buddy is amazing, but i have to admit i cannot undestand how good he can be in the NBA, i suspect that stronger players could heavily affect his efficiency.

 I will compare Buddy Hield to a couple of shooting guards from the 80’s that I either, never saw play, or barely saw play: Andrew Toney and Joe Dumars.

Hield is a gunner and a gamer.  A SCORER who is also a pure shooter.  Hard to find.

Toney, supposedly, was an absolute killer when healthy.

Joe D got two rings and a Finals MVP.  He could shoot and score, but also do some other things.  

I think Toney and Dumars were about 6’3.  Hield is what?  6’4.

Grayson Allen comps?  How many guys play like him?  Could do the easy Bobby Sura comp but I never watched him much.  As far as explosive, compact, aggressive, undersized but athletic/strong, naturally born scorers and streaky shooters what about DaJuan Wagner as a comparison?  Not really a ton of size for the 2 and not a pass-first (or second or third guy), but when he was on Wagner was REALLY GOOD — and he wasn’t even healthy.  … and I KNOW I am not supposed to compare him to Russell Westbrook — but I DO see a lot of similarities.  Russ was a late bloomer.  Made a Final Four run as a sophomore.  Grayson is a Big Man On Campus as a super soph and put the Dookies on his back at times in the title game last year.  Maybe he is still getting better…

Denzel Valentine?  Haven’t watched him much.  Back to the 80’s theme, I will compare him to Rodney McCray.

 I will compare Buddy Hield to a couple of shooting guards from the 80’s that I either, never saw play, or barely saw play: Andrew Toney and Joe Dumars.

Hield is a gunner and a gamer.  A SCORER who is also a pure shooter.  Hard to find.

Toney, supposedly, was an absolute killer when healthy.

Joe D got two rings and a Finals MVP.  He could shoot and score, but also do some other things.  

I think Toney and Dumars were about 6’3.  Hield is what?  6’4.

Grayson Allen comps?  How many guys play like him?  Could do the easy Bobby Sura comp but I never watched him much.  As far as explosive, compact, aggressive, undersized but athletic/strong, naturally born scorers and streaky shooters what about DaJuan Wagner as a comparison?  Not really a ton of size for the 2 and not a pass-first (or second or third guy), but when he was on Wagner was REALLY GOOD — and he wasn’t even healthy.  … and I KNOW I am not supposed to compare him to Russell Westbrook — but I DO see a lot of similarities.  Russ was a late bloomer.  Made a Final Four run as a sophomore.  Grayson is a Big Man On Campus as a super soph and put the Dookies on his back at times in the title game last year.  Maybe he is still getting better…

Denzel Valentine?  Haven’t watched him much.  Back to the 80’s theme, I will compare him to Rodney McCray.

 Didn’t know Joe Dumars was known for his defense at McNeese State.

Hield might be a better rebounder.  Dumars was probably better at playmaking.  Yeah, great at defense, too.

I was trying to think of smaller 2 guards who could flat out score and flat out shoot.

Andrew Toney was the first guy that came to my mind, but I never actually watched him play.  He has some good highlights, though.

Toney wasn’t really a 3 point shooter, though, I don’t think.  Dumars was more of a 3 point shooter.

Yeah, Dumars was a bad man.  So was Toney, if Charles Barkley speaks the truth.

So, I think that would be a possible max. upside for Hield.  Not a regular season MVP kinda guy but a great core guy on some winners.

Now I would LOVE to see some rookie tryouts with all those 3 guys, especially Hield and Grayson Allen.  Maybe BOTH guys are late bloomers.  If BOTH of those two guys are still improving (which it looks like they are) they could end up being two of the better players from this draft.

… now to another guy: for a little bit, I was thinking of semi-obscure comparisons for Ben Simmons.  Well, I thought about ANOTHER Simmons.  Anyone see Lionel Simmons aka the L Train in either college or follow him heavily in the pros?  Solid size, tweener, could really score and board in college, and had a really good rookie year stat-wise but never got better.

Ben Simmons might end up being closer to that or to Danny Manning (my original comparison) than a LeBron James or a Magic Johnson.  Boris Diaw would probably be a better comp for Ben Simmons.  

Well, let’s see what happens.

 Didn’t know Joe Dumars was known for his defense at McNeese State.

Hield might be a better rebounder.  Dumars was probably better at playmaking.  Yeah, great at defense, too.

I was trying to think of smaller 2 guards who could flat out score and flat out shoot.

Andrew Toney was the first guy that came to my mind, but I never actually watched him play.  He has some good highlights, though.

Toney wasn’t really a 3 point shooter, though, I don’t think.  Dumars was more of a 3 point shooter.

Yeah, Dumars was a bad man.  So was Toney, if Charles Barkley speaks the truth.

So, I think that would be a possible max. upside for Hield.  Not a regular season MVP kinda guy but a great core guy on some winners.

Now I would LOVE to see some rookie tryouts with all those 3 guys, especially Hield and Grayson Allen.  Maybe BOTH guys are late bloomers.  If BOTH of those two guys are still improving (which it looks like they are) they could end up being two of the better players from this draft.

… now to another guy: for a little bit, I was thinking of semi-obscure comparisons for Ben Simmons.  Well, I thought about ANOTHER Simmons.  Anyone see Lionel Simmons aka the L Train in either college or follow him heavily in the pros?  Solid size, tweener, could really score and board in college, and had a really good rookie year stat-wise but never got better.

Ben Simmons might end up being closer to that or to Danny Manning (my original comparison) than a LeBron James or a Magic Johnson.  Boris Diaw would probably be a better comp for Ben Simmons.  

Well, let’s see what happens.

 Joe Dumars’ senior year stats: 25.8 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists, .495 FG%, .852 FT%.

Buddy Hield’s senior year stats: 25.4 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, .501 FG%, .888 FT%.

Pretty similar stats.  But, pass the ball, Buddy!

Different eras of course.  Hield is shooting .487% from 3 this year.  Dumars didn’t take ANY in 3 of his 4 years in college.  In his sophomore year, Dumars shot 5-8 on 3’s.  

Dumars averaged 2.07 steals his senior year.  Hield is only averaging 1.3 a game.  

On the other hand, Hield is averaging .4 blocks per game as a senior.  Dumars was at .15 blocks per game as a senior.

Dumars was at 2.89 turnovers per game as a senior.  Hield is averaging right at 3.0 turnovers a game this year.

Similar stats, but the higher steals average DOES show that Dumars was probably a better defender in college.

 Joe Dumars’ senior year stats: 25.8 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists, .495 FG%, .852 FT%.

Buddy Hield’s senior year stats: 25.4 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2.2 assists, .501 FG%, .888 FT%.

Pretty similar stats.  But, pass the ball, Buddy!

Different eras of course.  Hield is shooting .487% from 3 this year.  Dumars didn’t take ANY in 3 of his 4 years in college.  In his sophomore year, Dumars shot 5-8 on 3’s.  

Dumars averaged 2.07 steals his senior year.  Hield is only averaging 1.3 a game.  

On the other hand, Hield is averaging .4 blocks per game as a senior.  Dumars was at .15 blocks per game as a senior.

Dumars was at 2.89 turnovers per game as a senior.  Hield is averaging right at 3.0 turnovers a game this year.

Similar stats, but the higher steals average DOES show that Dumars was probably a better defender in college.

 Senior year Andrew Toney: 26.1 points, 3.8 boards, .562 FG%, .805 FT%.

 Senior year Andrew Toney: 26.1 points, 3.8 boards, .562 FG%, .805 FT%.

 Anybody who says Grayson Allen is your "typical college player" is wrong. Hate Duke or love Duke. They are a top notch program and if you average 22ppg there like Grayson Allen is, you are more then a typical college player. Hes currently in the top 5 for player of the year nationally and will probably be conference player of the year in by far the best league in college basketball. Yeah his handle can be tighter, yeah he has some things to work on. So what? Ben Simmons cant shoot but thats not gonna stop him from going number one. Grayson Allen can hoop. 

 Anybody who says Grayson Allen is your "typical college player" is wrong. Hate Duke or love Duke. They are a top notch program and if you average 22ppg there like Grayson Allen is, you are more then a typical college player. Hes currently in the top 5 for player of the year nationally and will probably be conference player of the year in by far the best league in college basketball. Yeah his handle can be tighter, yeah he has some things to work on. So what? Ben Simmons cant shoot but thats not gonna stop him from going number one. Grayson Allen can hoop. 

It’s hard to find a great comp for Allen in the NBA right now, but his shot definitely makes him different than Chapman/Sura/Lin. If any of those 3 could hit 3s at that rate, they would be substantially better players. In this respect, if he was placed on a team where he could get 4 or 5 open threes a game, I think his floor is a “three and D” sort of player, and a really good one at that, because he has enough athleticism to be more than your stereotypical great three point shooter/below average defender type player (Reddick/Korver/etc).

Again, I would say a really good “3 and D player” is his floor. His ceiling is a much more interesting topic. He’s never going to be quite as athletic as Russ, but a lot of guys in this league have proven that the lane will open up for players who aren’t elite athletes when they are able to hit a 3 point shot. He’s developed a quicker release, and the GSW style of play has shown why this makes him more appealing. He also plays off the ball well and uses picks in a way that you could see him fitting in with the Spurs. I also think he is an above average passer. More than anything, he seems to play with more fire and competiveness than a lot of guys before him. He can guard guys who are bigger than him (he defended Dekker in the championship game, who is 6’8″). I’m not condoning his tripping incidents, but he doesn’t back down from other players. He’s tough. He plays with Bird’s temperament, and has the sort of basketball IQ that could make him a great player. On the RIGHT TEAM, I think he could really develop.

It’s hard to find a great comp for Allen in the NBA right now, but his shot definitely makes him different than Chapman/Sura/Lin. If any of those 3 could hit 3s at that rate, they would be substantially better players. In this respect, if he was placed on a team where he could get 4 or 5 open threes a game, I think his floor is a “three and D” sort of player, and a really good one at that, because he has enough athleticism to be more than your stereotypical great three point shooter/below average defender type player (Reddick/Korver/etc).

Again, I would say a really good “3 and D player” is his floor. His ceiling is a much more interesting topic. He’s never going to be quite as athletic as Russ, but a lot of guys in this league have proven that the lane will open up for players who aren’t elite athletes when they are able to hit a 3 point shot. He’s developed a quicker release, and the GSW style of play has shown why this makes him more appealing. He also plays off the ball well and uses picks in a way that you could see him fitting in with the Spurs. I also think he is an above average passer. More than anything, he seems to play with more fire and competiveness than a lot of guys before him. He can guard guys who are bigger than him (he defended Dekker in the championship game, who is 6’8″). I’m not condoning his tripping incidents, but he doesn’t back down from other players. He’s tough. He plays with Bird’s temperament, and has the sort of basketball IQ that could make him a great player. On the RIGHT TEAM, I think he could really develop.

Will you guys please stop the NBADraft.net tradition of comparing white guys only to other white players? This is the 21st Century, we should be way past that stage of racial analysis and stereotyping. Let’s examine the attributes of Hield and Allen on the merits and  the way they play the game.

Changing gears, I noticed many posters compalined that Allen drives to the basket too often. Are you serious? Every coach I ever knew would drum into his players the following wisdom. Don’t settle for the jump shot, take it to the hoop.

Will you guys please stop the NBADraft.net tradition of comparing white guys only to other white players? This is the 21st Century, we should be way past that stage of racial analysis and stereotyping. Let’s examine the attributes of Hield and Allen on the merits and  the way they play the game.

Changing gears, I noticed many posters compalined that Allen drives to the basket too often. Are you serious? Every coach I ever knew would drum into his players the following wisdom. Don’t settle for the jump shot, take it to the hoop.