Are the Pacers too white?

I Don’t Think They Are Two White …….why aren’t other teams “To” Black ……Or “To” European??……..This Is When people Want To Make An Article Just To Make It Big…….everone Of those White Guys Are Pretty Good….Except Mcroberts, but still they are in the league and abuse ” Black” and “European ” players…….Troy Murphy actually had more then 12 rbg ….he is great, and im liking the draft choice of tyler hansbrough ….

Who remebers the when the texas western college had 5 starting black players……people said they were too black and were not happy about it……now 40 years later were hearing is a team too white….it seems like when we make progress towards being better people.the same Stupid mistake comes back and haunts us

If their white or black? As long as they win, isn’t that all that matters?

This stuff comes up just when Michael Jackson died recently.

like Guru said all these white guys can play, ive heard similar accusations thrown at Coach K about to much white players, but all these whites are 5-star McDonalds all-americans and future 1st rounders, why shouldnt he recruit them, everyone would rather have a good white guy over a mediocre black player, and vice versa

Also consider that Indiana is very white, and to appeal to the fan base, the Pacers need players who can relate to the fans mostly blue-collar people which explains taking Hansborough over better players with the no.13 pick, look at Utah there the whitest state and i think there second behind the Pacers in terms of number of white players

Michael Jackson-Black or White.

if those dudes can ball, then what color should’nt matter. Last I checked Bird drafted Hibbert and Rush last year, made a trade to get Marquis Daniels and TJ Ford. Basketball transcends race because it has a great mixture of both players, coaches, gm’s, refs, announcers, fans…etc.

on that team are good players I would take some of them on mine. No they are not too white. Their best player is black and they will give him the ball all the time.

if people were gonna accuse bird of being racist after some of his first moves included getting rid of Isiah thomas as coach for Carlisle and then trading Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson for Dunleavy and Murphy. But he should’nt be. The moves he makes speak for themselves and the Pacers have just been struck with injuries.

Bird does do some shady questionable things. I will give his shady a$$ a pass cuz they are NBA players but he aint going nowhere with that squad you right.

S. Nash
P. Maravich
M. Doleac
N. Collison
B. Griffin?
S. Vujacic
A. Morrison
C. Quinn
M. Ginobili
M. Bonner
L. Bird
K. Hinrich
B. Miller
M. Bibby
R. Anderson
C. Anderson
A. Bogut
D. Nowitzki
R. Fernandez
S. Blake
J. Pryzbilla
M. Miller
O. Pecherov
Yao
J.-B.-R. Barrys
A. Bargnani
These are some great notable white players. Well not all are great, but white’s like me can ball too.

Murphy just had his best year. Dunleavy was darn near an all-star two years ago before he got injured. Hansbrough was a very legit pick at 13. I don’t think Bird believes he can win with “white” players, I think he believes he can win with “good’ players.

He is not white I’m sorry. He is a dark skinned black man too. Just like me.

Yao is white?

Eh, Bird is way too competitive to care about race. He wants to win. This is who he is. I think after the “Melee” his biggest concern was shipping off guys that were a big part of that culture. It seemed like one incident after another and with the same guys. Even if it meant the other team giving up better talent in Jackson and Harrington for Murphy and Dunleavy. That’s why they didn’t want Tinsley around their team.

Honestly, I like a lot of guys that the Pacers have on their roster, just not together. My biggest problem is that they have absolutely no athletes of any color or nationality or really any really physical guys, which is why I like the pickup of Hansborough. Also, they have a lot of guys that are overpaid (i.e., Dunleavy, Tinsley, Rasho, Murphy, Foster). They were really competitive early in the year, but injuries killed them towards the end. They are probably a solid number 2 guy to complement Granger from doing some serious damage.

Bibby’s father is Henry Bibby. I don’t think he’s white.

A lot of those guys are players but they are not all great. Their are some bust like Morrison in there. Oh my bad you know they are not all great ok

So I would not call Mike white either.

a race draft.

I’ll draft Bird!

This is honestly a legit topic. I live in Indianapolis and am a huge Pacers fan. I can tell you that a lot of people around here, especially in my neighborhood (ALL races) are talking about this. Obviously I can’t speak on the feelings of everybody in Indiana, but based on what I hear at work, the gym, barbershop, grocery store, etc… The opinion is that Bird is building a team full of slow white guys. I was actually in the barbershop getting my haircut when we drafted Hansbrough and EVERYBODY just looked at each other after the pick. I mean it was literally silent for like 10 seconds. Soon everybody just started laughing and the jokes started coming. One guy said Bird was going to find a way to pay Hansbrough more money than Blake Griffin. One guy said Bird would’ve drafted Hansbrough over Blake Griffin. It wasn’t a racist thing… It’s that he seems to be reaching a little bit and overpaying for average white players. I think it all stems from this interview in 2004:

Jim Gray asks Bird: “Does the NBA lack enough white superstars in your opinion?”

“Well, I think so,” Bird replies, according to an ESPN transcript. “You know when I played, you had me and Kevin (McHale) and some others throughout the league. I think it’s good for a fan base because as we all know the majority of the fans are white America. And if you just had a couple of white guys in there, you might get them a little excited. But it is a black man’s game, and it will be forever. I mean, the greatest athletes in the world are African-American.”

What knicksboy34 said is what a lot of people really feel around here and this was before we drafted Hansbrough.

put Yao in the white category lol. He’s bugging

Is their actually discussion of this? Wow, I mean, really. Larry Bird thinks black basketball players are not as good as white ones? I mean, come on. I think Larry Bird is trying to build a winning basketball team. He said he sees some Dave Cowens in Tyler Hansbrough, not that he saw Bob Cousy in Travis Deiner. Knicksboy, where do you come up with this
sh!t? You never back anything up, and honestly, I think it is a big possiblity that you are indeed racist, lol. I am kidding about the racist part, but dude, I think that judging a basketball player by their race rather than what they bring to the table is behind us. If Larry Bird were really into white players, he might try and trade Danny Granger for Dirk Nowitzki. But he hasn’t, so no, Larry Bird is not trying to build a team of neo-nazi white supremicists.

You’re probably the one who gave me a negative point. I’m from Indianapolis & yes it is a discussion around here. You may not like that, but it is… Not w/ just black people either… Everybody is talking about it. Nobody thinks Bird is a racist. Obviously he drafted Brandon Rush and Hibbert last draft… He drafted A.J. Price in this draft. People feel that he’s reaching for average white players. Can you blame people for thinking that after what he said in 2004? Knicksboy34 was on point because a lot of people believe that he sees a lot of the old players in some of these guys. You can give me negative points all you want… I’m just saying what people talk about around here.

WOW this is the stupidest forum topic ever.
come on too white , do we ever say too black?

taking hansboroh at 13 doesnt show how weak this draft is..no matter what people say you dont know how weak a draft is untill years later not just because they dont like how the players play in the draft..its pretty much a crap shoot with the players..personally i think it will end up being a daft will alot of soild players..maybe not stars maybe with stars but pretty soild…i also dont think plarry bird is racist..i recall him telling people he felt disrespected when the others team coach put a white player on him in games

Knicksboy im not sayin ur stupid im saying this question is just stupid. no team can be too black or too white. as long as theyre good it doesnt matter
so calm down ( and no i usually see those shows but i had to do somethin 2day)

Man this was a good topic to post. Being from Indianapolis I can tell you that this a big topic around here everywhere you go. I mean, at the gym, on the radio, on Indystar.com… It’s not just black or white people either. I mean, everybody talks about it. Nobody is saying they think Bird is a racist though.

If you are quoting topics from Around the Horn and PTI and ESPN, than I would not be the guy who should be referred to as an idiot. ESPN thinks of horrible topics that draw in viewers as they create controversy. If they had a topic about any race other than white, it would be deemed offensive. His team is slow, and boring, and not in the best position to win, but honestly, this team is more competitive than they were just a little while ago. It is just a straight up bad team that had to rebuild. If he could trade white players to get better players, he would do that. He traded S-Jax and Harrington for Murphy and Dunleavy, because at the time it seemed like a very viable move. S-Jax punched dudes in the face and has numerous issues, and Harrington badly wanted out. Getting Troy Murphy is not bad for consistencies sake, and Hansbrough was even being talked about going as high as 9-12. Yes, he is white, but he was not drafted on the basis of being white. The team starts four black players (Danny Granger, TJ Ford/Jarrett Jack, Roy Hibbert, Brandon Rush). If he could get something better for Foster, he would, as goes with Diener. Would you rather have Mikki Moore and Moochie Norris? I mean, look at the players, and the role they play on the team. Also, look at where this team hopes to go in the future. All I am saying is, I think saying that Larry Bird drafts white guys because he thinks they are better basketball players is STUPID. End of story.

If we all agree that Bird is not racist, and we all agree that he has made moves that seemed beneficial to the team at the time, then why are we talking about race?

Can someone please tell me how many white players a team is supposed to have.

I am not saying you are stupid either. I just think you never back up any of your posts or claims with evidence or insight. Also, that ESPN is stupid for having this discussion. Are the Clippers awful because of their executive decision making? Yes. Are the Grizzlies bad because they have an awful group of role players? Absolutely. Is Indiana bad because they are full of white guys? No, because they are slow and unathletic at every position other than PG and Danny Granger. Being slow also goes with drafting Roy Hibbert and also goes with the fact that they have not been an elite team for about 7-8 years. They have constantly been over the cap, signed guys to a lot of money and suffered the consequences. Not to mention, when is the last time a big name free agent came to Indiana and the only guy they have had through the draft that is vital to the team is Danny Granger. At least they are a better team than numerous other teams with fewer white players, be happy with that.

the NBA is like 80 percent black , so this forum topic is saying basically having some white players is a bad thing?

Bird is not racist.

“Bird said the only player he’s seen who could match Hansbrough’s intensity is his former Boston teammate, Hall-of-Fame centre Dave Cowens. Hansbrough was flattered that someone with Bird’s reputation respected him so much.”

Matching intensity is not saying he thinks he is Dave Cowens. You are lucky to get a solid role player at 13, not everyone turns into Kobe Bryant, more often than not you are lucky to get a role player at 13, especially in this draft. Larry Bird obviously saw something he liked in Hansbrough, and it probably went beyond skin pigmentation. If I say that Kwame Brown uses the same cologne as Bill Russell, it is not a comparison to him as a basketball player.

I do believe this is a weak draft and thus Hansbrough went higher then he would in other years. However, when you consider he was’nt drafted in 2008, he was drafted in 2009, 13 sounds about right. So to imply that race was in any way a factor is kinda ridiculous.

His stock was all over the place. I think winning a title his senior year actually helped his stock. Not all players that stay in college 4 years fall in the draft because of it. I can tell you one thing, he would not have gone 13 and he would not have gone to Indiana.

Knicksboy34 you did not turn it into a Bird is a racist thing it just changed into that the more the topic was commented on.

I said that Hnasbrough was taken 13 because he was best available and you said no…this is a weak draft wich did’nt even make sense. If it is a weak draft, then 13 was a good spot, which is all I said.

…on PTI. He mentioned all the recent trouble the Pacers’ organization has dealt with (Artest, Jackson, Tinsley), so maybe the organization is looking for a cleaner image. With that said, I don’t think Adande is insisting that every white player has a cleaner image than any one else. He also mentioned the Indianapolis community is mostly white, 67.5% according to my research.

However, I think that Bird is simply just building a team that he thinks will win. Winning is going to draw the big crowds more than having a team that is filled with players that have the same skin tone as the majority of your fanbase.

Knicksboy, what people in the NBA seem to do is look at these things as trends. They see David Lee in Hansbrough, and therefore Hansbrough’s stock rises. Adrian Peterson has a monster year, running backs get drafted. Dirk Nowitzki is a monster, Nikoloz Tskitishvilli goes 5th in the draft. Guys get drafted higher than expected quite often. They also go lower than expected, it just happens. I think Hansbrough going 13, considering who was left on the board, was not at all a big deal. If Bird wants a big who works his ass off and has put up numbers everywhere he has played, than Hansbrough was the second best one of those in this draft after Griffin. Not saying he is great by any means, but everyone can admit this draft sucked when it came to legit bigs. Hansbrough ceiling is lower than players he was drafted after, but so is his floor. He is a safe pick as a role player, I think a lot of people can agree with that. He is not Mark Madsen, but he is not Dave Cowens. If he is somewhere near Troy Murphy, they got a steal. It is not like he is devoid of tools to succeed as a basketball player.

I also think Knicksboy, that you are not devoid of insight, but you should try and show some more. If you want to work for ESPN, and lord knows I think you would be an improvement, try and say more than those guys do on Around the Horn and PTI. Those shows are fun to watch, and everyone can appreciate their ADD format, but those guys usually sound like idiots because they are never given enough time to research or make a point. Hence, we have the printed word, where we can do these things. So, if you want to stress something, and as you often say “make an argument”, MAKE AN ARGUMENT. Do not just talk about it brother, say, this is how I feel and this is why. I know I would respect that, as I have with you actually stating points in this post. Sure the topic of the Pacers being too white is a step back for humankind, but good job.

I thought he was 20-24 range myself. But as the draft got closer, he performed better then a lot of other guys. Considering this was a weak draft, 13 sounds about right.

20 bucks says Larry Bird drafts Cole Aldrich next season

lmao j/k

But you cant lie, Larry isnt TOTALLY racist, but he does prefer to have white players than black, and its obvious
The league is like 10% white, and 6% are on the Pacers, lol jk

Race in basketball is overrated, people should start ignoring race…

The brawl is why it went down. I am sure Larry will build a team eventually, the problem is not that his players are white, it is also that many of his players are hard to trade without getting significantly less in return. Also, Murphy had been more distinguished than Mike D at that point, he was having a weak season though. But the whole brawl situation doomed that team. Still, Danny Granger was a super impressive pick, if anything Larry Bird may have seen himself in him, the kid is good. Nonetheless, they are just straight up not that great a team, and I do not think much would have changed peoples opinions had they drafted Earl Clark, Austin Daye, James Johnson or DeJuan Blair. The 13th pick in this draft was not going to cause to much optimism in turning your team around (Blair is seen as being a nice complimentary player, not turning the Spurs around just to distinguish the difference to people who may thought that statement was untrue). By the way, I was honestly interested in hearing what you had to say regarding Oscar Robertson being better than Mike. Sorry for seeming like a dick about it, but I was trying to coax you to write what you believe man. If you put some thought and points behind it, people at least have to respect it. I would, even if I did not agree with it. I usually give points to people who put thought into what they say.

Look, Larry Bird is just trying to sell tickets people… I’m not from Indiana, but I know that when I go to TWolves/Bucks game I’d say the fans are predominantly white. I’d guess the same is true in Indiana. After you have the kind of incident that the pacers had, you have to revamp your image to reengage the fan base… The fact is, the majority of the white people that buy tickets to games are likely to perceive that incident as “thuggish black guys” getting outta control, and frankly they’re less likely to buy tickets if that’s the perceived product on the court. Whether or not that is an ignorant, or politically correct perception is another story…

You have to put out a product that meets the consumer demand, and that wasn’t going to happen with Stephen Jackson on the court (who I think, by the way, is a great guy, and his proven such in GS). If you instead think about it as Bird trying to meet what fans are going to come see, you might be able to better understand the Bird trades and draft picks… Besides Grainger, who was just too good to pass up, what do you think all those other guys had in common? They were all people that the fans already know….

Look down the list…

Troy Murphy: played at nearby Notre Dame
Mike Dunleavy: played at Duke, which is always on ESPN. What do you think the fans do on night when they don’t go to a pacers game? they probably watch college basketball on ESPN…
That basically explaines the rest of the guys:
Tyler Hansbrough… UNC
AJ Price… UCONN
Roy Hibbert…. GEORGETOWN
Brandon Rush…. KANSAS

When you think about a typical night of college basketball on ESPN, I’d say there’s a god chance one of those teams plays (Duke, UCONN, Kansas, GTown, UNC)

Larry Bird is trying to put together a team that the fans will come out to see. Some have been white, some have been black, the bond between them all is that the fans know them and are more likely to come see them play.

The real question is, what is Bird doing with a run-and-gun team with guys like Hibbert, Dunleavy, and Murphy? Why hire O’brien to run up and down the court with those guys, rather than a hybrid PF like Shawn Marion? That’s beyond me….

was only partly because of the brawl. Both of those guys were gonna be given another chance, but Jax went shooting his gun outside a club the next year and Harrington flat out wanted traded. Bird sort of had his hand forced to get rid of thse guys to clean up the image.

the person hadn’t posted about JA adande when i started writing, but i agree completely with that.

Troy Murphy > Al Harrington

Who cares if the Pacers where all white baskeball is business and Larry Bird (who is not a racist) trying to put a winning team on the floor….

Most Definitely, Troy Murphy > Harrington…. Murphy’s rebounding alone puts him light years ahead of Harrington…

Al may have more physical gifts but Harrington’s only trump is that he’s a big that can shoot the 3… Murphy can too.

I say it’s a toss up. Al can creat more offense, but Murphy is a great role player with better rebounding, shooting, and passing.

I don’t care what any of you say. You can knock me if you want. I don’t think Larry Bird is racist, but I don’t like the way he’s re-building the team. I think he’s too conservative and we can’t win with this roster. Other than Danny Granger, Brandon Rush & TJ Ford we have little to no athleticism. Our front court is a joke. I’m used to watching previous Pacer teams w/ the Davis brothers and Rik Smits (who wasn’t very athletic, but was tall, very skilled & aggressive). Indiana misses Donnie Walsh something serious.

I don’t care what color you are… I want guys who can play and a team that can win in THIS LEAGUE. I see the teams and players that are successful and winning in the NBA. In the NBA, athletes rule. It takes more than just being an athlete, but let’s be real here… Athletes rule the NBA. It’s also a known fact that African-Americans are more athletic than Caucasians. That’s a fact… Larry Bird said that himself. If you look at the Pacers roster though, it’s not just that we have a bunch of slow white guys… It’s the fact that they all play major roles. Is there another team in the league with more white guys playing prominant roles? You have a problem when Dunleavy is one of your go-to/star players. You have a problem when Troy Murphy is one of your go-to/star players. These guys are role players at best, not NOT stars. We’re paying them like stars though. They’re advertised around here like stars. Dunleavy wasn’t even the best two guard on our roster this season (Marquise Daniels played GREAT this season) and he barely played this season, but he’s advertised on billboards, buses, etc all around the city. When you throw in what Bird said in 2004, you can’t blame people for thinking this.

Ever since the Pacers announced they wanted a “cleaner image” there’s been a lot of debate around here. Many people feel that because Indiana is mostly white, they’re trying to put a team on the floor that most of the public can relate to.

This is a straight forward perspective.

I disagree to a large extent. How can you say Dunleavy was not the best sg on that team? He was injured all year. A season ago he was 19-5-5 and a knock down shooter who was unselfish. It’s not Birds fault he got injured. Granger is an all-star, and he was either sitting out or playing with an injury the whole second half the season. Troy Murphy might not be athletic, but he had a great year grabbed 12 boards a game and shot 45% on threes. Lot’s of teams would love him. And what other white guys play a huge role? Nesterovic is on his way out, Foster is a solid backup who is actually pretty athletic.

Bird has been dealing with the whole Brawl fiasco, injuries to J ermaine O’neal, and inconsistent play at pg from guys like Tinsley, Jack, and Ford. Hibbert, Rush, and now Hansbrough all look like solid draft picks. Give Bird some time before you write off how he is building the team. I think they could compete for a playoff spot next year.

Al Harrington gets traded wherever he goes.

If Bird would have taken Greg Paulus instead of AJ Price in the second round then we could make a case the has a white agenda. Haha

Anyways, NJ was talking about taking Hansbrough at 11 so I dont think it was a stretch for him to draft Hansbrough at 13. He likes immediate contributors. He took 2 black players last year when there was more talented players on the board because they seemed like they could contribute immediately.

Bird isnt racist but he is more willing to take a chance on a white American than most other GM’s.

I’m not gonna say bird is a racist, but I’ve got my eye on him. If he signs Wally Scerbiak, then his cover’s blown, lol.

“Bird isnt racist but he is more willing to take a chance on a white American than most other GM’s.”

well said.

As the most popular user on this site, let me get in on this.

The Pacers have long had a public relations image problem since the Palace Brawl. Since then, they’ve been stuck between having good players who help them win games and pleasing the fans, who bring in ticket, parking, concession reveune, ect. Luckily, they drafted Danny Granger, who’s turned out to be a nice player. In a way, he’s help to save them a little in that reguard, because he’s African-American with a good image.

To answer the question, the Pacers really did draft white players with the All-American personality and OK game to rebild the franchise’s image.

Dhamp…the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

I probably brought up something similiar at one point and lost points. It is crazy because a lot of white players who have played basketball do not think some white players should be in the NBA. Bird said it himself. Most African American are better athletes and tend to make up most of the NBA. I dont believe Bird is racist but if you listen to him talk. I don’t believe he relates well with the urban culture. He was talking one day recently about actually listening to an Eminem CD and about how he now gets some of it because it has some good stories in it. Larry Bird likes to get players he relates to and more than likely they will be white. Everyone has a little prejudice in them in some way shape or form. it may not be a race thing. It is about being around people that you can relate too and be comfortable with. There are sometime cultural difference between a lot of white and black people that makes it hard for each person to understand the other person. There are some coach like Roy Williams who have been rumored to actually like having more athletic black players. Coaches have their preferences. Also Indiana has not really won but I will say this the player they picked up were solid but most white players have trouble on defense and to hide this on some teams you need a few long athletic black players to help them out. Indiana has white players and some slow black players. Rush may be their best athlete. Granger is a solid player but he has average athleticism. This is why the Pacers sometimes struggle they can not match most team on defense because of lack of athleticism

DHamp I could not have said it better myself. It is funny how you have white people taking offense when everyone knows that these players are not getting picked up and drafted solely on talent alone. Noone is saying that these white players are terrible but people are recognizing that a lot of white players are on that team and it is not by pure coincidence.

Also taking about people points and saying negative thing to people because they bring up this is foolish. It is not racist to acknowledge something that we all see. It would be stupid to ignore something so obvious. It this topic offends you stay off the thread. You have grown people and also young people who want to grow more mature by talking about life and basketball type topics.

i disagree. I think Bird has put togother a team that he thinks will win. He drafted rush and Hibbert last year, he just signed Dahntay Jones. His best player is Danny Granger. If you are gonna act like it is so obvious to everyone that something strange is going on, then speak for yourself, not everyone. Also, you are one of the only people on here who gives himself points after every post and then gets upset when others take them away.

I agree Sheltwon we should be able to openly discuss something like this, without anyone saying it is racist. However, it wasn’t obvious that the Pacers had such a roster with 5-6 white guys. ESPN broke the news for me, otherwise I wouldn’t have really known and I’m pretty sure this would not be a topic of discussion right now. However, I may have realized if I saw them playing on TV, but it would’ve just been a quick comment then and no more discussion.

I still believe, and agree with llperez, that the Pacers are building a roster to win. I heard before the draft that the Pacers were looking at drafting a player that had about 3-4 years of college experience. Also, someone pointed out that the Nets were considering Hansbrough at the 11 spot as well. So obviously teams thought he had some talent.

“…when everyone knows that these players are not getting picked up and drafted solely on talent alone.”

Is that really a fair statement? I mean that could be a statement for any player that gets drafted. Teams are always evaluating players off the court actions as well as their talent on the court. That is why teams always conduct interviews with these guys to make sure their head is on straight. Besides the obvious top notch talents, no player is going to be drafted just solely on talent alone.