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- Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 3:54am #62511
gopack10ParticipantBe easy guys, and try not to neg the messenger. All I did was read an article.
http://soaringdownsouth.com/2016/01/19/atlanta-hawks-trade-target-1-dwight-howard/
But I will say that I don’t hate this move for any of the teams involved, specifically for Atlanta since I’m not so sure they bring back Horford this summer anyway with the money he might command on the open market.
That and Teague is playing on bad ankles, which can linger, and Dennis Schroder’s progression.
The Knicks get a PG and the Rockets get a better four man that can play opposite of Capela.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 4:09am #1037861
DolanCareParticipantThe Hawks should make a trade before the deadline but I don’t see how this helps them. Dwight is a beast when he’s 100% but when exactly can we expect that? I’d rather pay Horford next year, who is a legit All-Star in his own right, than gamble on Dwight coming through in the playoffs during his decline.
I just think Atlanta could get a better haul for Teague and Horford than an aging Dwight and Jerian Grant.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 4:09am #1037726
DolanCareParticipantThe Hawks should make a trade before the deadline but I don’t see how this helps them. Dwight is a beast when he’s 100% but when exactly can we expect that? I’d rather pay Horford next year, who is a legit All-Star in his own right, than gamble on Dwight coming through in the playoffs during his decline.
I just think Atlanta could get a better haul for Teague and Horford than an aging Dwight and Jerian Grant.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 5:18am #1037871
gopack10ParticipantIn all fairness, if you want to call Dwight "in decline" then what do you call Horford? If you take a look at his numbers across the board, his numbers have been in decline the last few seasons. I’d much rather take a flier on Howard for one year than overpay Horford for the next 5 or 6 years. Horford’s contract would be Joe Johnson 2.0 as he is a very good player, but not someone you pay that much money too at his age.
With Teague, I think his ankle injuries and the play of Schroder make him expendable at this point. He’ll be due a big raise after next season as well and I’m just not willing to pay that if he’s not 100% what he was last season.
And I’m not so sure you can get a lot more for a half a season of Horford and an injured Teague, but I could be wrong about that.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 5:18am #1037736
gopack10ParticipantIn all fairness, if you want to call Dwight "in decline" then what do you call Horford? If you take a look at his numbers across the board, his numbers have been in decline the last few seasons. I’d much rather take a flier on Howard for one year than overpay Horford for the next 5 or 6 years. Horford’s contract would be Joe Johnson 2.0 as he is a very good player, but not someone you pay that much money too at his age.
With Teague, I think his ankle injuries and the play of Schroder make him expendable at this point. He’ll be due a big raise after next season as well and I’m just not willing to pay that if he’s not 100% what he was last season.
And I’m not so sure you can get a lot more for a half a season of Horford and an injured Teague, but I could be wrong about that.
0- Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 9:14pm #1038083
DolanCareParticipantAl Horford is pushing thirty but he’s not in decline. Not like Dwight is.
Here are Al’s stats for the five seasons:
2011-2012: 12.4 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, .09 stl, 1.3 blk, .553 fg% (11 games played)
2012-2013: 17.4 pts, 10.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.1 blk, .543 fg% (74 games played)
2013-2014: 18.6 pts, 8.4 reb, 2.6 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.5 blk, .567 fg% (29 games played)
2014-2015: 15.2 pts, 7.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.3 stl, 1.3 blk, .538 fg% (76 games played)
2015-2016: 15.4 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.5 blks .505 fg% (42 games played)
The big year for Al was 2012-2013 where he had impressive stats in every category. He then got hurt the next season which was the main reason for the team’s bad year (38-44).
In 2014-2015 he posted good stats but a slight dip from 2012. But that’s because he was in decline, it is because he was finally playing under Coach Bud who applied a heavy-ball movement offense.
Al Horford is turning 30 years old, so any contract over 3 years is pretty dicey for a big that has an injury history. But he’s by far a safer bet than Dwight Howard who may play less than half the season.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 9:14pm #1037949
DolanCareParticipantAl Horford is pushing thirty but he’s not in decline. Not like Dwight is.
Here are Al’s stats for the five seasons:
2011-2012: 12.4 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, .09 stl, 1.3 blk, .553 fg% (11 games played)
2012-2013: 17.4 pts, 10.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.1 stl, 1.1 blk, .543 fg% (74 games played)
2013-2014: 18.6 pts, 8.4 reb, 2.6 ast, 0.9 stl, 1.5 blk, .567 fg% (29 games played)
2014-2015: 15.2 pts, 7.2 reb, 3.2 ast, 1.3 stl, 1.3 blk, .538 fg% (76 games played)
2015-2016: 15.4 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 0.8 stl, 1.5 blks .505 fg% (42 games played)
The big year for Al was 2012-2013 where he had impressive stats in every category. He then got hurt the next season which was the main reason for the team’s bad year (38-44).
In 2014-2015 he posted good stats but a slight dip from 2012. But that’s because he was in decline, it is because he was finally playing under Coach Bud who applied a heavy-ball movement offense.
Al Horford is turning 30 years old, so any contract over 3 years is pretty dicey for a big that has an injury history. But he’s by far a safer bet than Dwight Howard who may play less than half the season.
0- Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 4:21am #1038108
gopack10ParticipantSo basically his stats are trending downward but he isn’t in decline? Ok.
I watch every Hawks game and I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is on the decline in every way except for his range. And that’s not to say he isn’t a good player anymore, but his basic stats that you posted above as well as his advanced stats all point in that direction.
What people fail to realize in this deal, which I personally don’t think happens, is that the Hawks might lose Horford for absolutely nothing this summer. He’ll likely want a 5 year deal at a minimum, for somewhere close to the max, and that’s not something that the Hawks should do again, a la Joe Johnson.
And if you want to give the Coach Bud offense as a reason for Horford’s numbers being down then I’ll counter that with playing next to Harden as the reason for Howard’s numbers being down. He’s still a better rebounder and post presence than Horford is. Howard’s advanced stats tell you he’s having a better year in quite a few categories, including rebounding (his best since his last year with Orlando).
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 4:21am #1037975
gopack10ParticipantSo basically his stats are trending downward but he isn’t in decline? Ok.
I watch every Hawks game and I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that he is on the decline in every way except for his range. And that’s not to say he isn’t a good player anymore, but his basic stats that you posted above as well as his advanced stats all point in that direction.
What people fail to realize in this deal, which I personally don’t think happens, is that the Hawks might lose Horford for absolutely nothing this summer. He’ll likely want a 5 year deal at a minimum, for somewhere close to the max, and that’s not something that the Hawks should do again, a la Joe Johnson.
And if you want to give the Coach Bud offense as a reason for Horford’s numbers being down then I’ll counter that with playing next to Harden as the reason for Howard’s numbers being down. He’s still a better rebounder and post presence than Horford is. Howard’s advanced stats tell you he’s having a better year in quite a few categories, including rebounding (his best since his last year with Orlando).
0- Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 8:12pm #1038098
DolanCareParticipantYou’re twisting what I’m trying to say. I know Horford is not the player he was 4 seasons ago, but he hasn’t taken a dive. Dwight has taken a dive. It’s basically a perpetual uncertainity if he’ll play on any given night. If you’re going to trade Horford why not get something more reliable instead of a lottery ball that is Dwight Howard? More importantly, it would be a lottery ball for one year, maybe two. It’s a short term panic move to win now, which they won’t because the Cavs are just a better team… even if Dwight plays at a top-level.
Not to mention this trade proposal also involves Teague on top of it all. If you’re going to shake up your roster, you need to focus on getting assets: young talent and picks. I’d prefer they get Dragic, Winslow and Whiteside for Horford and Teague. Or even absorb Nene’s contract for a year to get Oubre. Anything that gives them a future.
Dwight Howard IS falling off a cliff and if ATL can’t win now with him, they will have very few assets on their roster- something that they could get by trading Horford and Teague.
IMO it doesn’t matter because the Hawks are an organization that has shown a committment to team building and long-term management, so I doubt they would OK this move.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 8:12pm #1038233
DolanCareParticipantYou’re twisting what I’m trying to say. I know Horford is not the player he was 4 seasons ago, but he hasn’t taken a dive. Dwight has taken a dive. It’s basically a perpetual uncertainity if he’ll play on any given night. If you’re going to trade Horford why not get something more reliable instead of a lottery ball that is Dwight Howard? More importantly, it would be a lottery ball for one year, maybe two. It’s a short term panic move to win now, which they won’t because the Cavs are just a better team… even if Dwight plays at a top-level.
Not to mention this trade proposal also involves Teague on top of it all. If you’re going to shake up your roster, you need to focus on getting assets: young talent and picks. I’d prefer they get Dragic, Winslow and Whiteside for Horford and Teague. Or even absorb Nene’s contract for a year to get Oubre. Anything that gives them a future.
Dwight Howard IS falling off a cliff and if ATL can’t win now with him, they will have very few assets on their roster- something that they could get by trading Horford and Teague.
IMO it doesn’t matter because the Hawks are an organization that has shown a committment to team building and long-term management, so I doubt they would OK this move.
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- Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 4:13pm #1037882
Mad MaxParticipantgod damn what a stupid ass trade for the Hawks
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 4:13pm #1038017
Mad MaxParticipantgod damn what a stupid ass trade for the Hawks
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 8:23pm #1037943
thetruth87ParticipantThe Knicks get Jeff Teague, rid themselve of the human turnstile Jose Calderon and his contract for next year and all they have to give up is Jerian Grant??? As a Knicks fan sign me up for that! Awful trade for the Hawks lol.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 01/20/2016 - 8:23pm #1038077
thetruth87ParticipantThe Knicks get Jeff Teague, rid themselve of the human turnstile Jose Calderon and his contract for next year and all they have to give up is Jerian Grant??? As a Knicks fan sign me up for that! Awful trade for the Hawks lol.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 6:46am #1038120
fredrock34ParticipantWhy would they trade 2 legit players for an injury prone dwight howard? Al Horfords numbers have been in decline simply because hes has a way better supporting core the last few years. He might not be a superstar but he is a legit leader and one of the most unselfish stars in the league. Your underselling what he brings to the team. The hawks would be crazy not to pay him next year
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 6:46am #1037986
fredrock34ParticipantWhy would they trade 2 legit players for an injury prone dwight howard? Al Horfords numbers have been in decline simply because hes has a way better supporting core the last few years. He might not be a superstar but he is a legit leader and one of the most unselfish stars in the league. Your underselling what he brings to the team. The hawks would be crazy not to pay him next year
0- Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 8:21am #1038142
ItsVictorOladipoParticipant^ this. His advanced numbers are not in decline at all. His PER last year was a career high 21.4 and this year it’s 20.2. His rebounding is down but he plays away from the hoop more. His versatility is an additional bonus that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 8:21am #1038008
ItsVictorOladipoParticipant^ this. His advanced numbers are not in decline at all. His PER last year was a career high 21.4 and this year it’s 20.2. His rebounding is down but he plays away from the hoop more. His versatility is an additional bonus that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet.
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- Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 7:50am #1038138
ZachAttackParticipantNew York wins in that trade. They’d jump on that in half a second
No way Atlanta does it. They get screwed over.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 01/21/2016 - 7:50am #1038004
ZachAttackParticipantNew York wins in that trade. They’d jump on that in half a second
No way Atlanta does it. They get screwed over.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 01/22/2016 - 3:33am #1038141
PulseGlazerParticipantEveryone hates Dwight, but scouts I trust (from various podcasts, mostly, David Thorpe on Lowe most notably pops to mind) keep saying he’s playing hard despite rarely seeing the ball. I think there’s still something there for the right team and coach. I really hope he goes to Dallas, where he should have went all along.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 01/22/2016 - 3:33am #1038274
PulseGlazerParticipantEveryone hates Dwight, but scouts I trust (from various podcasts, mostly, David Thorpe on Lowe most notably pops to mind) keep saying he’s playing hard despite rarely seeing the ball. I think there’s still something there for the right team and coach. I really hope he goes to Dallas, where he should have went all along.
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