This topic contains 18 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar phila9012 10 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #61570
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

    Even the court design changed.. The Bulls shot a ton of threes vs the Bucks, the offense looked a little rusty and obviously expected early in preseason but I definitely see why this offense is going to create problems for Defenses around the league, Lots of movement without the ball multiple ball handlers and incredible spacing, the Bulls weren’t hitting a lot of shots in the first half but they were getting very good looks.. Really excited to see this offense gel as the season moves along I definitely saw the potential it has.

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  • #1016863
    AvatarAvatar
    Toronto16
    Participant

    I wonder if and when Derrick Rose comes back he disrupts the offense. He is looking for a big payday in 2017…

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    • #1016867
      Robb_CRobb_C
      Robb_C
      Participant

      What I really want to know is when the starting lineups are called whos name is going to be called last…. Rose or Butler?

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      • #1016875
        AvatarAvatar
        Chewy
        Participant

         It will be Rose

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      • #1017011
        AvatarAvatar
        Chewy
        Participant

         It will be Rose

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    • #1017003
      Robb_CRobb_C
      Robb_C
      Participant

      What I really want to know is when the starting lineups are called whos name is going to be called last…. Rose or Butler?

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  • #1016999
    AvatarAvatar
    Toronto16
    Participant

    I wonder if and when Derrick Rose comes back he disrupts the offense. He is looking for a big payday in 2017…

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  • #1016879
    AvatarAvatar
    GBee
    Participant

     Player and ball movement weren’t issues under Thibs either.  His half court offensive design was actually good in those aspects. Year after year they were among the better teams in AST% and number of screens both on and off ball utilized.  His issue was that he was a control freak who wanted to call a play every single time down the court, not letting them loose.  They didn’t look for early offense often so the overwhelming majority of possessions turned into a grind.  The Bulls in previous years could make up for some of that with attacking the glass and getting extra possessions, but with Noah lame, that wasn’t an advantage last year. There’s also the issue with personnel too.  When defenses dig in and the clock is winding down, offense comes down to the creativity and playmaking of the players. Jimmy’s improving in that area, but if Derrick is still playing like ass, then the offense will only go as far as he goes. Also, when plays are made for others, the "others" have to finish them.  That has been an issue in recent years: players not finishing plays that are made for them.

    I didn’t see anything amazing from their offense last night.  The spacing was different of course, with even some bigs being used to camp out in the corners, but good luck with that when Noah and Taj are in the game or when Gasol is trying to post.  Offense looks better when shots are made and to me that was the difference between the halves. On first glance (albeit with a lot of poor execution and unfamiliarity mixed in) more 3’s are obviously encouraged and philosophically more freedom is allowed, but just in terms of player and ball movement, I didn’t see better design.  The difference is moreso philosophical.  We’ll see how their offense fares when individual player creativity is more relied on.

     

     

      

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  • #1017015
    AvatarAvatar
    GBee
    Participant

     Player and ball movement weren’t issues under Thibs either.  His half court offensive design was actually good in those aspects. Year after year they were among the better teams in AST% and number of screens both on and off ball utilized.  His issue was that he was a control freak who wanted to call a play every single time down the court, not letting them loose.  They didn’t look for early offense often so the overwhelming majority of possessions turned into a grind.  The Bulls in previous years could make up for some of that with attacking the glass and getting extra possessions, but with Noah lame, that wasn’t an advantage last year. There’s also the issue with personnel too.  When defenses dig in and the clock is winding down, offense comes down to the creativity and playmaking of the players. Jimmy’s improving in that area, but if Derrick is still playing like ass, then the offense will only go as far as he goes. Also, when plays are made for others, the "others" have to finish them.  That has been an issue in recent years: players not finishing plays that are made for them.

    I didn’t see anything amazing from their offense last night.  The spacing was different of course, with even some bigs being used to camp out in the corners, but good luck with that when Noah and Taj are in the game or when Gasol is trying to post.  Offense looks better when shots are made and to me that was the difference between the halves. On first glance (albeit with a lot of poor execution and unfamiliarity mixed in) more 3’s are obviously encouraged and philosophically more freedom is allowed, but just in terms of player and ball movement, I didn’t see better design.  The difference is moreso philosophical.  We’ll see how their offense fares when individual player creativity is more relied on.

     

     

      

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  • #1016901
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

     Gbee the Bulls had one of the slowest offensive paces in the league… They had a great Defense but they never wore teams down with the offense, you could clearly see when the Bulls played yesterday they wore down the Bucks by the 4th with their ball movement and spacing, something thibs couldnt do with the offense, Thibs had a decent offense it was just his pace at which the offense played allowed teams to cheat on defense. If you understand basketball you understand where im going with this.. 

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    • #1016913
      AvatarAvatar
      GBee
      Participant

       Yeah I referred to that when I mentioned Thibs wanting to call a play every single time down and not letting them look for early offense.  That’s what slows the pace down. That and their defense making opposing offenses work, utilizing more clock and less possessions.  For all the crap Thibs got for the Bulls’ offense, they were 11th in the league in ORating last year, which is above average and they were perennially among the better teams in the league in AST%, which is a sign of good ball movement.  The design was fine, the philosophy was too constricting and allowed little margin for error.

      I didn’t see anything drastically different in terms of ball/player movement.  I actually saw a lot of bad stuff with bigs fighting their natural tendency to ball screen as opposed to letting the handler beat his man,  crowded strong sides where dudes were like 5 feet apart trying to pass to each other, etc.  The main difference I saw was bigs playing on the perimeter. Mirotic will play more, so that would’ve naturally occurred (although Hoiberg played him at the 3..which I’m unsure about), but GL playing 4 out 1 in with any combination of Taj, Noah and Pau who will get the majority of the minutes in the frontcourt.

       

       

       

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    • #1017049
      AvatarAvatar
      GBee
      Participant

       Yeah I referred to that when I mentioned Thibs wanting to call a play every single time down and not letting them look for early offense.  That’s what slows the pace down. That and their defense making opposing offenses work, utilizing more clock and less possessions.  For all the crap Thibs got for the Bulls’ offense, they were 11th in the league in ORating last year, which is above average and they were perennially among the better teams in the league in AST%, which is a sign of good ball movement.  The design was fine, the philosophy was too constricting and allowed little margin for error.

      I didn’t see anything drastically different in terms of ball/player movement.  I actually saw a lot of bad stuff with bigs fighting their natural tendency to ball screen as opposed to letting the handler beat his man,  crowded strong sides where dudes were like 5 feet apart trying to pass to each other, etc.  The main difference I saw was bigs playing on the perimeter. Mirotic will play more, so that would’ve naturally occurred (although Hoiberg played him at the 3..which I’m unsure about), but GL playing 4 out 1 in with any combination of Taj, Noah and Pau who will get the majority of the minutes in the frontcourt.

       

       

       

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  • #1017037
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

     Gbee the Bulls had one of the slowest offensive paces in the league… They had a great Defense but they never wore teams down with the offense, you could clearly see when the Bulls played yesterday they wore down the Bucks by the 4th with their ball movement and spacing, something thibs couldnt do with the offense, Thibs had a decent offense it was just his pace at which the offense played allowed teams to cheat on defense. If you understand basketball you understand where im going with this.. 

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  • #1016919
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

    I know exactly what youre refering too as far as that strong side crowding on the top of the key that looks like a three man weave… Its part of the offense he does that tight and crowded to force switches on the strong side to get a mismatch off a drive to score or kick it to the weakside man cutting on the dive.. I do agree some parts were sloppy but this offense is very unique im really excited to watch it grow, its very reactionary meaning the offense exploits what the defense gives them

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  • #1017055
    Robb_CRobb_C
    Robb_C
    Participant

    I know exactly what youre refering too as far as that strong side crowding on the top of the key that looks like a three man weave… Its part of the offense he does that tight and crowded to force switches on the strong side to get a mismatch off a drive to score or kick it to the weakside man cutting on the dive.. I do agree some parts were sloppy but this offense is very unique im really excited to watch it grow, its very reactionary meaning the offense exploits what the defense gives them

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  • #1016946
    AvatarAvatar
    SamCarlson
    Participant

    I was very encouraged watching the game last night as a Bulls fan. There will obviously be more flow when the players get used to playing with one another and have some chemistry. I think this day in the NBA the style of play is making sure you have 4 shooters on the floor at once with a rim protecting big. It just creates more space on the court and stretches the defense thin.

    I think this style is going to be great for Mirotic, McDermott and hopefully for Snell to take that next step. I am also hoping they play as much as possible with only one of pau and noah in the game. I dont mind starting them but Niko needs to be on the floor almost 30 mins a night. Even when he isnt hitting threes he keeps the d honest which helps other players.

    Finally, I think adding Rose to this offense is going to be beautiful. Rose is a very instrictual player and this offense will let him play more and think less. It was clear at times last night that Jimmy was the only guy on the floor to create for others and he needed another guy to take some of that pressure. It sure as hell wasnt going to be Moore. 

     

     

     

     

      

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  • #1017081
    AvatarAvatar
    SamCarlson
    Participant

    I was very encouraged watching the game last night as a Bulls fan. There will obviously be more flow when the players get used to playing with one another and have some chemistry. I think this day in the NBA the style of play is making sure you have 4 shooters on the floor at once with a rim protecting big. It just creates more space on the court and stretches the defense thin.

    I think this style is going to be great for Mirotic, McDermott and hopefully for Snell to take that next step. I am also hoping they play as much as possible with only one of pau and noah in the game. I dont mind starting them but Niko needs to be on the floor almost 30 mins a night. Even when he isnt hitting threes he keeps the d honest which helps other players.

    Finally, I think adding Rose to this offense is going to be beautiful. Rose is a very instrictual player and this offense will let him play more and think less. It was clear at times last night that Jimmy was the only guy on the floor to create for others and he needed another guy to take some of that pressure. It sure as hell wasnt going to be Moore. 

     

     

     

     

      

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  • #1017089
    AvatarAvatar
    phila9012
    Participant

     They could be like the warriors last year probably not as good but still a title contender. Thibs was wearing on the players and built a great defense. They should keep that and their offense and rotations should improve. So players like butler arent playing 39 minutes a game guarding the opponents best player while being one of the primary offensive options. That is a huge burden to place on one player. If they could have him playing 32 to 34 mpg that should help save some of his legs for the postseason. Same with the other players, if they can keep their minutes down while still winning 55 to 60 games, hoiberg could be the guy who puts them over the edge.

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  • #1016954
    AvatarAvatar
    phila9012
    Participant

     They could be like the warriors last year probably not as good but still a title contender. Thibs was wearing on the players and built a great defense. They should keep that and their offense and rotations should improve. So players like butler arent playing 39 minutes a game guarding the opponents best player while being one of the primary offensive options. That is a huge burden to place on one player. If they could have him playing 32 to 34 mpg that should help save some of his legs for the postseason. Same with the other players, if they can keep their minutes down while still winning 55 to 60 games, hoiberg could be the guy who puts them over the edge.

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