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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 7:38am #61300
treytalkssports.comParticipantFor a long time, I was looking for something clear that could articulate why many basketball players and fans prefer Kobe over Lebron.
Today, ESPN posted an article on 37 quotes from Kobe for his 37th birthday.
One of them read:
9. Nov. 16, 2014, after scoring 44 points on 34 shots in 31 minutes during a Lakers blowout loss: "I’d rather not have to do that, but you can’t sit back and watch crime happen in front of you."
That’s the nearest I’ve gotten to ever being able to quantify why I would take Kobe over Lebron. In a loss, Kobe will go down swinging hard. In his mind, what is happening is a crime, and it is his "moral" responsibility as a basketball player to do everything he can to stop the "crime".
Lebron just doesn’t see it that way. The finals kind of proved that. If Lebron or his team is overmatched, he will still only do his thing. He will fight only so hard. In fact, he kind of plays the victim to get sympathy points. He does not do everything in his power to prevent the "crime" from happened. There is no "moral" imperative that moves him to action. He just keeps playing as normal.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 7:39am #1009687
treytalkssports.comParticipantand this:
21. August 2014: "I would go 0-for-30 [from the floor] before I would go 0-for-9. 0-for-9 means you beat yourself, you psyched yourself out of the game. … The only reason is because you’ve just now lost confidence in yourself."
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 7:39am #1009824
treytalkssports.comParticipantand this:
21. August 2014: "I would go 0-for-30 [from the floor] before I would go 0-for-9. 0-for-9 means you beat yourself, you psyched yourself out of the game. … The only reason is because you’ve just now lost confidence in yourself."
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 7:55am #1009691
T RexLeBron played his heart out in the Finals, and I’m not even a LeBron fan.
LeBron’s also a better recruiter. Kevin Love basically chose LeBron over Kobe this summer, while Aldridge also shunned Kobe and his obnoxious sales pitch.
Kobe doesn’t even call the free agents and draft picks who do sign with the Lakers.
But that’s great Kobe likes to pad his stats while losing. It explains a lot.
0- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 8:52am #1009703
ChewyParticipantLebron QUIT on the Cavs late in the elimination game. He started jogging up and down the court, playing no defense and jacking up stupid shots for 5 straight possesions.
Then he was taken out of the game.
Then JR Smith hit 2 threes and pulled the Cavs within 8-12 pts or something like that.
Then LBJ went back in the game for the last 1:30 or so.
Then LBJ missed one contested lay up and two stupid shots to close out the game.
Lebron has QUIT on the Cavs (in game) twice in his career. That’s two more than any GOAT candidate ever. I understand those who would take Lebron over Kobe, but there should be no bleeding hearts for a guy who "played his heart out" for 95% of the series, because every other great has always done that 100% of the games they played. It is just expected from great players.
0- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 11:40am #1009739
seskillmParticipantSo somehow Lebron gets called out for quitting in a series where he did EVERYTHING for his team??? I literally think there was a play where he blocked a shot out of bounds, jumped and saved it to himself for the rebound, threw an outlet pass that he caught just in time to oop it to his running self down the other lane. He then continued to play 5 positions, coach the team, make a trade, and sold some advertisements.
But seriously, no one remembers or ever brings up the fact Mr. Kobe Bryant himself quit on his team in the most pivotal of games, Game 7 against Phoenix. He stopped playing, refused to shoot, and checked out. Really? No one EVER brings this up about the "Black Mamba". Why? Because people like to hate on Lebron for being . . . what? . . . Maybe the best athlete ever, maybe the greatest player of his generation, maybe a Top 5 player of all time. People like to hate on those who sit on top.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 11:40am #1009876
seskillmParticipantSo somehow Lebron gets called out for quitting in a series where he did EVERYTHING for his team??? I literally think there was a play where he blocked a shot out of bounds, jumped and saved it to himself for the rebound, threw an outlet pass that he caught just in time to oop it to his running self down the other lane. He then continued to play 5 positions, coach the team, make a trade, and sold some advertisements.
But seriously, no one remembers or ever brings up the fact Mr. Kobe Bryant himself quit on his team in the most pivotal of games, Game 7 against Phoenix. He stopped playing, refused to shoot, and checked out. Really? No one EVER brings this up about the "Black Mamba". Why? Because people like to hate on Lebron for being . . . what? . . . Maybe the best athlete ever, maybe the greatest player of his generation, maybe a Top 5 player of all time. People like to hate on those who sit on top.
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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 8:52am #1009840
ChewyParticipantLebron QUIT on the Cavs late in the elimination game. He started jogging up and down the court, playing no defense and jacking up stupid shots for 5 straight possesions.
Then he was taken out of the game.
Then JR Smith hit 2 threes and pulled the Cavs within 8-12 pts or something like that.
Then LBJ went back in the game for the last 1:30 or so.
Then LBJ missed one contested lay up and two stupid shots to close out the game.
Lebron has QUIT on the Cavs (in game) twice in his career. That’s two more than any GOAT candidate ever. I understand those who would take Lebron over Kobe, but there should be no bleeding hearts for a guy who "played his heart out" for 95% of the series, because every other great has always done that 100% of the games they played. It is just expected from great players.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 9:24am #1009707
Magic JordanParticipantI would imagine it had more to do with Kobe being a year away from retirement and being injured 2 seasons running while Lebron in his prime. Just a guess though.
0- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:01pm #1009743
T RexMaybe Kobe is and was too self-absorbed to sell Aldridge on being anything other than an after-thought for the Kobe Geezer over-long farewell tour.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:01pm #1009880
T RexMaybe Kobe is and was too self-absorbed to sell Aldridge on being anything other than an after-thought for the Kobe Geezer over-long farewell tour.
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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 9:24am #1009844
Magic JordanParticipantI would imagine it had more to do with Kobe being a year away from retirement and being injured 2 seasons running while Lebron in his prime. Just a guess though.
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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 7:55am #1009828
T RexLeBron played his heart out in the Finals, and I’m not even a LeBron fan.
LeBron’s also a better recruiter. Kevin Love basically chose LeBron over Kobe this summer, while Aldridge also shunned Kobe and his obnoxious sales pitch.
Kobe doesn’t even call the free agents and draft picks who do sign with the Lakers.
But that’s great Kobe likes to pad his stats while losing. It explains a lot.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 9:49am #1009719
whiteflashParticipantHere’s a list of current and ex-NBA players I’ve personally played with/against- TJ Ford, Daniel Ewing, DeAndre Jordan, Luther Head, Bobby Sura, Penny Hardaway, Shawn Kemp, Shane Battier, Moochie Norris, Cartier Martin, Mo Taylor…… There’s a few more but that’s who I can think of off the top of my head. Literally EVERY SINGLE ONE said that Bryant is the best player they’ve ever seen, and it’s not even close. LITERALLY all of ’em. That says a lot to me.
0- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 6:30pm #1009953
ZachAttackParticipantWhy do you play with all those NBA Players?
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 6:30pm #1009815
ZachAttackParticipantWhy do you play with all those NBA Players?
0- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 8:18pm #1009966
whiteflashParticipantDon’t/didn’t play with the majority of them consistently. Most was just Pro-Am/Pick-up around Houston a handful of times. A few [Head, Moochie Norries, Rafar Alston] I played with a couple/few times a month, but had my third knee tear in summer of ’13 and haven’t seen them much since. Also used to workout pretty regularly with Anthony Goldwire, who bounced around the league and Europe. Still have a handful of vids of me dunking at 5’9", but unfortunately nothing before my first [and subsequent] knee tears or before the age of 29. Dropped out of high school early due to getting into trouble, had a few JUCO/small D1 oppertunities but kept getting into trouble, had some small pro shots- TROUBLE – got in jured and there you go. Now coach and do my best to help kids – knucklehead or otherwise – to make the most of their abilities. Figured it’s the least I can do for squandering my "gift". Wanted to say I like this community. Hadn’t posted in probably five years, and don’t always agree with the majority, but I love talking ball.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 8:18pm #1009829
whiteflashParticipantDon’t/didn’t play with the majority of them consistently. Most was just Pro-Am/Pick-up around Houston a handful of times. A few [Head, Moochie Norries, Rafar Alston] I played with a couple/few times a month, but had my third knee tear in summer of ’13 and haven’t seen them much since. Also used to workout pretty regularly with Anthony Goldwire, who bounced around the league and Europe. Still have a handful of vids of me dunking at 5’9", but unfortunately nothing before my first [and subsequent] knee tears or before the age of 29. Dropped out of high school early due to getting into trouble, had a few JUCO/small D1 oppertunities but kept getting into trouble, had some small pro shots- TROUBLE – got in jured and there you go. Now coach and do my best to help kids – knucklehead or otherwise – to make the most of their abilities. Figured it’s the least I can do for squandering my "gift". Wanted to say I like this community. Hadn’t posted in probably five years, and don’t always agree with the majority, but I love talking ball.
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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 9:49am #1009856
whiteflashParticipantHere’s a list of current and ex-NBA players I’ve personally played with/against- TJ Ford, Daniel Ewing, DeAndre Jordan, Luther Head, Bobby Sura, Penny Hardaway, Shawn Kemp, Shane Battier, Moochie Norris, Cartier Martin, Mo Taylor…… There’s a few more but that’s who I can think of off the top of my head. Literally EVERY SINGLE ONE said that Bryant is the best player they’ve ever seen, and it’s not even close. LITERALLY all of ’em. That says a lot to me.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:16am #1009723
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantThis is a useless argument. It’s all subjective. I could probably list 10 reasons why Kobe is better than lebron and 10 why lebron is better than Kobe. It’s like choosing between bird and magic. There is really no wrong answer and either way you can’t really go wrong. They are both all-time legends who were probably the two most dominant players of their era. Who you like better is just matter of personal preference.
I still think its a travesty that we never actually got to see this debate played out on the court on the biggest stage in the NBA finals. It seemed inevitable that we would see Kobe and lebron square off in the finals for a few years but it just never happened.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:16am #1009860
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantThis is a useless argument. It’s all subjective. I could probably list 10 reasons why Kobe is better than lebron and 10 why lebron is better than Kobe. It’s like choosing between bird and magic. There is really no wrong answer and either way you can’t really go wrong. They are both all-time legends who were probably the two most dominant players of their era. Who you like better is just matter of personal preference.
I still think its a travesty that we never actually got to see this debate played out on the court on the biggest stage in the NBA finals. It seemed inevitable that we would see Kobe and lebron square off in the finals for a few years but it just never happened.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:22am #1009725
Memphis MadnessParticipantMJ is the best player ever and Kobe is the 2nd best shooting guard ever. Kobe had a higher scoring game than Jordan did. 81 vs. 69.
Kobe has 5 rings, and has a 3 peat. He has been to the Finals 7 times which is one more than Jordan. LeBron has been to 6 NBA Finals but only has two rings. He and Wilt are in the 2-4 Club.
Kobe has scored more points than MJ.
MJ is still tops, but Kobe should be right behind him. Take your pick between Wilt, Kareem, Bill Russell, Magic, Kobe, LeBron, and Bird.
In terms of raw stats, offensive brilliance, shooting, leadership, titles, and Finals appearances Kobe is ahead of LeBron with LeBron being better "all around". LeBron pads his assists stats by kicking out to guys for wide open 3’s. That’s great and all but I think an ASSIST is one where you get a guy an EASIER shot, like a wide open layup like Magic galluping down the court on a fast break. Or a drive through the lane and dumping it off to a big man for a dunk. You can get Tyreke Evans to play the drive and kick game.
But, if Kobe were 6’8 260lbs. he would have probably averaged 35 points, 12 rebounds, and 6 assists a game for his career.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:22am #1009862
Memphis MadnessParticipantMJ is the best player ever and Kobe is the 2nd best shooting guard ever. Kobe had a higher scoring game than Jordan did. 81 vs. 69.
Kobe has 5 rings, and has a 3 peat. He has been to the Finals 7 times which is one more than Jordan. LeBron has been to 6 NBA Finals but only has two rings. He and Wilt are in the 2-4 Club.
Kobe has scored more points than MJ.
MJ is still tops, but Kobe should be right behind him. Take your pick between Wilt, Kareem, Bill Russell, Magic, Kobe, LeBron, and Bird.
In terms of raw stats, offensive brilliance, shooting, leadership, titles, and Finals appearances Kobe is ahead of LeBron with LeBron being better "all around". LeBron pads his assists stats by kicking out to guys for wide open 3’s. That’s great and all but I think an ASSIST is one where you get a guy an EASIER shot, like a wide open layup like Magic galluping down the court on a fast break. Or a drive through the lane and dumping it off to a big man for a dunk. You can get Tyreke Evans to play the drive and kick game.
But, if Kobe were 6’8 260lbs. he would have probably averaged 35 points, 12 rebounds, and 6 assists a game for his career.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:23am #1009727
EspressoprodigyParticipantLebron dont let crimes happen. #crimestopper
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:23am #1009864
EspressoprodigyParticipantLebron dont let crimes happen. #crimestopper
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 1:11pm #1009751
Reptilian MonkParticipantSome of you guys are so immature in trying to find any reason to hate Lebron. If you don’t like his personality ok but he is one on the all time great basketball players and you all have to recognize and hopefully respect his skill and game while he is still here.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 1:11pm #1009888
Reptilian MonkParticipantSome of you guys are so immature in trying to find any reason to hate Lebron. If you don’t like his personality ok but he is one on the all time great basketball players and you all have to recognize and hopefully respect his skill and game while he is still here.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 2:56pm #1009759
trueone313detroitParticipantLBJ is just better to me because no matter what group of players he is surrounded by he is capable of making his team better. He could play in any generation and/or style and his teams will always succeed and generally have a positive win column. You can talk about the Heat teams that feature Wade(injury filled seasons), Bosh(softer face power foward-with a good post game but conflicted with the spacing needed for wade/LBJ)playing out of position as a 5 not winning every title while they were together, but they had a smallish supporting cast that lacked the shooting needed to play with these big 3.
But hey we never talk about Kobe with shaq malone payton and horace grant teams that lost to detroit. But individual name every team that LBJ squads lost too.
If LBJ was a ball hog gunner he could have averaged 40-50 in a season, but the guy is your superstar, averages 25+ a year, 7-9 assist, 7-9 rebounds steal and a block, guards the best 1-4 during crunch time and could guard the center but we have few real post 5’s in the league now, with teams riddle with 6th man as your starters and lacking of hall of fame coaching. To me with the adversity he dealt with no knock to MJ but he is the greatest individual player to ever walk the planet to day. No other player has really accomplished as much with the lack of overall talent from start to finish in a career. I give a hats to LBJ over Kobe anyday
0- Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 1:28am #1009988
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantI disagree with you saying that lebron could score 40-50 ppg if he was a ball hog. Lebron just isn’t built to score the ball the way Kobe is. He isn’t as versatile of a scoring threat and lacks Kobes ability to be able to manufacture a shot from just about anywhere on the court in any situation as well as be able to make tough shots. You saw what happened when lebron had to take on an increased scoring role in the playoffs this year. It clearly wore him down and he was out of his element. Even though I thought he had an amazing playoffs overall, he just wasn’t very efficient scoring the ball, and his shooting percentages were awful. I agree that lebron is the more well-rounded player and makes his teammates better, but if you needed a guy to carry you offensively for a game or series, I would take prime Kobe over lebron anyday.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 1:28am #1009851
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantI disagree with you saying that lebron could score 40-50 ppg if he was a ball hog. Lebron just isn’t built to score the ball the way Kobe is. He isn’t as versatile of a scoring threat and lacks Kobes ability to be able to manufacture a shot from just about anywhere on the court in any situation as well as be able to make tough shots. You saw what happened when lebron had to take on an increased scoring role in the playoffs this year. It clearly wore him down and he was out of his element. Even though I thought he had an amazing playoffs overall, he just wasn’t very efficient scoring the ball, and his shooting percentages were awful. I agree that lebron is the more well-rounded player and makes his teammates better, but if you needed a guy to carry you offensively for a game or series, I would take prime Kobe over lebron anyday.
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- Posted on: Wed, 08/26/2015 - 2:56pm #1009896
trueone313detroitParticipantLBJ is just better to me because no matter what group of players he is surrounded by he is capable of making his team better. He could play in any generation and/or style and his teams will always succeed and generally have a positive win column. You can talk about the Heat teams that feature Wade(injury filled seasons), Bosh(softer face power foward-with a good post game but conflicted with the spacing needed for wade/LBJ)playing out of position as a 5 not winning every title while they were together, but they had a smallish supporting cast that lacked the shooting needed to play with these big 3.
But hey we never talk about Kobe with shaq malone payton and horace grant teams that lost to detroit. But individual name every team that LBJ squads lost too.
If LBJ was a ball hog gunner he could have averaged 40-50 in a season, but the guy is your superstar, averages 25+ a year, 7-9 assist, 7-9 rebounds steal and a block, guards the best 1-4 during crunch time and could guard the center but we have few real post 5’s in the league now, with teams riddle with 6th man as your starters and lacking of hall of fame coaching. To me with the adversity he dealt with no knock to MJ but he is the greatest individual player to ever walk the planet to day. No other player has really accomplished as much with the lack of overall talent from start to finish in a career. I give a hats to LBJ over Kobe anyday
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 12:51pm #1009928
iguapops420ParticipantI get so sick of hearing people use the excuse that Kobe quit in game seven against PHX. Fact is he was still playing hard as hell defensively and trying to set guys up. Him shooting was t working so Phil told him at the half to try something else. Neither worked. But their is a difference between not jacking up shots and quitting. Lebrun played the greatest series I’ve ever seen for almost the entire series, but when push cM to shove he was allowing guys free drives to the rim, not going to the (which was the only reason it was a series in the first plAce) and flat out stopped giving it his all. When Los Angeles went down big to Boston in 2010 despite a piss poor shooting performNce Kobe figured out a way to still lock down defensively and grab a game high 17 rebounds de showing no quit. That’s why Kobe is better thN LeBron even though he doesn’t have nearly the physical profile or overAll stats.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 12:51pm #1010066
iguapops420ParticipantI get so sick of hearing people use the excuse that Kobe quit in game seven against PHX. Fact is he was still playing hard as hell defensively and trying to set guys up. Him shooting was t working so Phil told him at the half to try something else. Neither worked. But their is a difference between not jacking up shots and quitting. Lebrun played the greatest series I’ve ever seen for almost the entire series, but when push cM to shove he was allowing guys free drives to the rim, not going to the (which was the only reason it was a series in the first plAce) and flat out stopped giving it his all. When Los Angeles went down big to Boston in 2010 despite a piss poor shooting performNce Kobe figured out a way to still lock down defensively and grab a game high 17 rebounds de showing no quit. That’s why Kobe is better thN LeBron even though he doesn’t have nearly the physical profile or overAll stats.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 9:53pm #1009985
HeroescantdieParticipantI think before Kobe is better than Lebron when he had his time, Now Lebron is better than Lebron
But if you’re talking about legacy I think it is debatable. Kobe has MJ before him, patterned his game around him. while Lebron is one of a kind. He is a Magic Johnson with Michael Jordan’s Athletecism. Kobe has won 5 rings, although I think that’s shaq’s champoinship not his. But he wouldn’t won it if Shaq wasn’t there. Lebron has won 2 rings, that 2 belongs to him, he’s the alpha dog of that team. I’m not hating on Kobe.
When talking about killer instict or something like that Kobe has the edge over Lebron before, as of now, I don’t if Lebron has the mental edge like that, But based on the finals last June, I think Lebron has that now.
Attitude, I think Kobe is to enamored with greatnes, success and perfection, he sometimes disregard people around him and neglect what they feel. While Lebron is a good team mate, He’s unselfish.
You’ll be the judge on this
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 9:53pm #1010122
HeroescantdieParticipantI think before Kobe is better than Lebron when he had his time, Now Lebron is better than Lebron
But if you’re talking about legacy I think it is debatable. Kobe has MJ before him, patterned his game around him. while Lebron is one of a kind. He is a Magic Johnson with Michael Jordan’s Athletecism. Kobe has won 5 rings, although I think that’s shaq’s champoinship not his. But he wouldn’t won it if Shaq wasn’t there. Lebron has won 2 rings, that 2 belongs to him, he’s the alpha dog of that team. I’m not hating on Kobe.
When talking about killer instict or something like that Kobe has the edge over Lebron before, as of now, I don’t if Lebron has the mental edge like that, But based on the finals last June, I think Lebron has that now.
Attitude, I think Kobe is to enamored with greatnes, success and perfection, he sometimes disregard people around him and neglect what they feel. While Lebron is a good team mate, He’s unselfish.
You’ll be the judge on this
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 10:01pm #1009987
Rip255Best players in history are in this order.
Jordan
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Kobes not even top 10.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 08/27/2015 - 10:01pm #1010124
Rip255Best players in history are in this order.
Jordan
Lebron
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Kobes not even top 10.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/28/2015 - 2:05pm #1010245
iguapops420ParticipantRip = child who was too young to watch the lakers early 2000’s three peat. Without Kobe lakers don’t even make it to the finals as shaq went soft in the act where Kobe went nuts year after year. Without wade and bosh born don’t get his titles. 5-2 in the finals vs. 2-4? Yeah… Lebron is better than Kobe. Smdh
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/28/2015 - 2:05pm #1010107
iguapops420ParticipantRip = child who was too young to watch the lakers early 2000’s three peat. Without Kobe lakers don’t even make it to the finals as shaq went soft in the act where Kobe went nuts year after year. Without wade and bosh born don’t get his titles. 5-2 in the finals vs. 2-4? Yeah… Lebron is better than Kobe. Smdh
0- Posted on: Fri, 08/28/2015 - 3:17pm #1010251
Rip255I love the spirited reply.
I’ll extend my rankings to include Kobe.
6. Bird
7. Russell
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Oscar
11. Kobe
Lebron is still #2 All time…even if I gave Kobe a bump. He’s ahead of some really good players too, such as Durant, West and Hakeem, so even top 15 is debateable.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/28/2015 - 3:17pm #1010113
Rip255I love the spirited reply.
I’ll extend my rankings to include Kobe.
6. Bird
7. Russell
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Oscar
11. Kobe
Lebron is still #2 All time…even if I gave Kobe a bump. He’s ahead of some really good players too, such as Durant, West and Hakeem, so even top 15 is debateable.
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