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daggers818 10 years, 10 months ago.
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 3:35pm #61155
saladdaysParticipantWith the signings of Dwight and Steve Nash (albeit at 38 y/o), the Lakers seemed primed for a championship season. Even with Nash getting a freak injury, LA had a core of Kobe, Dwight, Pau, MWP in addition to solid role players like Jordan Hill (rebounding), an aging Antawn Jamison (scoring off the bench) and Jodie Meeks (shooting) among others…what happened? Some have attributed it to the incompatibility of D’Antoni’s run-and-gun style with the roster, while others have pointed out the lack of chemistry between Kobe and Dwight. Why do you guys think the Lakers weren’t able to pull it together? Kobe had that career-altering achilles injury near the end of the season, and I’m wondering why he even had to play so many minutes and take so much wear-and-tear when he had such a strong roster to back him up.
As a Lakers fan, I wish I had been more appreciative of just how good Pau Gasol was for us. The poor guy took such a beating from the media and fans here, but it’s so rare to see such a skilled passing big man who was also a great locker room presence and leader.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:17pm #1006349
RecoveringVegetarianParticipanthey Now!!! because Jim Buss Sucks!!!
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:17pm #1006209
RecoveringVegetarianParticipanthey Now!!! because Jim Buss Sucks!!!
0- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 8:07pm #1006373
wonzi_bellsParticipantEverything went wrong. It was a domino effect due to injuries, lack of fit and lack of skilled athletic youth.
First off, everyone was injured that season. Dwight Howard with his back and shoulders, Pau Gasol had tendinitis and plantar fasciitis, Kobe Bryant with the torn achilles in the 78th game and Steve Nash with basically everything with a fractured shin in the first week of the season, ankle and hamstrings injuries later on in the season and his degenerative spinal condition finally gave way after being on hold for a decade-plus, largest credited to the Phoenix Suns medical staff for keeping humpty-dumpty in one piece.
This is where youth was needed and they never had any since they went through years of giving away first-round picks and now you stuck with an aging Steve Blake as your backup and a very old Antwan Jamison having to help out and they youth that they did have weren’t any good since they weren’t skilled.
This is where not being able to re-sign Trevor Ariza, who I still don’t know why he left, in 2009 played a major role in their future. He was 24 that summer and could provide a spry defender to be a bridge-gap for not only the length on the initial contract but over multiple contracts too as opposed to Ron Artest, who was 30 and by the last couple of years in Los Angeles, wasn’t a good player anymore, much less defensive player.
So now the fit…. Dwight Howard has a lingering injury, thus their rim protection is hampered. Kobe Bryant, who started to become a sub-par defensive player in 2010, starts conserving his energy significantly for offense while Artest is sub-par as well and Nash being awful to begin with, so they’re perimeter defense collapses. They finished 20th on defense that season.
And on offense, since Pau Gasol was injured as well, his shooting numbers slumped and overall, Gasol is primarily a low-post player and occupied the same space as Howard and two players down-low screws up D’Antoni’s offense. Meanwhile, out on the perimeter Nash is best with the ball in his hands. The only problem is Kobe Bryant is also notorious with needing to have the ball in his hands.
All of this equals a hot mess of a season.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 8:07pm #1006233
wonzi_bellsParticipantEverything went wrong. It was a domino effect due to injuries, lack of fit and lack of skilled athletic youth.
First off, everyone was injured that season. Dwight Howard with his back and shoulders, Pau Gasol had tendinitis and plantar fasciitis, Kobe Bryant with the torn achilles in the 78th game and Steve Nash with basically everything with a fractured shin in the first week of the season, ankle and hamstrings injuries later on in the season and his degenerative spinal condition finally gave way after being on hold for a decade-plus, largest credited to the Phoenix Suns medical staff for keeping humpty-dumpty in one piece.
This is where youth was needed and they never had any since they went through years of giving away first-round picks and now you stuck with an aging Steve Blake as your backup and a very old Antwan Jamison having to help out and they youth that they did have weren’t any good since they weren’t skilled.
This is where not being able to re-sign Trevor Ariza, who I still don’t know why he left, in 2009 played a major role in their future. He was 24 that summer and could provide a spry defender to be a bridge-gap for not only the length on the initial contract but over multiple contracts too as opposed to Ron Artest, who was 30 and by the last couple of years in Los Angeles, wasn’t a good player anymore, much less defensive player.
So now the fit…. Dwight Howard has a lingering injury, thus their rim protection is hampered. Kobe Bryant, who started to become a sub-par defensive player in 2010, starts conserving his energy significantly for offense while Artest is sub-par as well and Nash being awful to begin with, so they’re perimeter defense collapses. They finished 20th on defense that season.
And on offense, since Pau Gasol was injured as well, his shooting numbers slumped and overall, Gasol is primarily a low-post player and occupied the same space as Howard and two players down-low screws up D’Antoni’s offense. Meanwhile, out on the perimeter Nash is best with the ball in his hands. The only problem is Kobe Bryant is also notorious with needing to have the ball in his hands.
All of this equals a hot mess of a season.
0- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 8:13pm #1006377
wonzi_bellsParticipantA lot of wrong things built up into that season though. From 2008 all the way to 2013, the Lakers traded away all of their first round pick. Now most of those pick were late first-round picks but some of those times, there were still value on the board and first-round picks are a valuable commodities since they offer less contractual risk than valuable second-round picks that you hit on since valuable second-round picks that hit restricted free agency after their first or second seasons can get you hit with a "poison-pill offer" by another team to get you into cap-space and luxury-tax problems and if a second-rounder hits free agency after his fourth season, they automatically become an unrestricted free agent. Plus, you don’t have to deal with KJ McDaniels situations with second-round picks betting on themselves and only signing a one-year deal and then hitting the free agent market early, as opposed to the built in pay scale for first-round picks.
2008 – #28 – Donte Greene – Traded to the Grizzlies in the Pau Gasol trade
2009 – #29 – Tony Douglass – Traded on draft night to the Knicks for cash consederations and a 2011 second-round pick
2010 – #28 – Greivis Vasquez – Traded to the Grizzlies in the Pau Gasol trade
2011 – #27 – JaJuan Johnson – Traded to the Nets for Joe Smith (35 y/o) and a 2011 and 2012 second-round pick
2012 – #24 – Jared Cunningham – Traded, along with shedding a Luke Walton’s $6M contract, to the Cavs in the Ramon Sessions trade, a player who left as an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2012 after 23 games regular season games and 12 playoffs games with the Lakers that lone half-season.
2013 – #19 – Sergey Karasev – Traded to the Cavs in the Ramon Sessions trade as a swap for a Miami first-round pick (#30); The swapped Miami pick traded in the Steve Nash trade (Nemanja Nedovic)
Now, the 2008, 2010 and 2013 picks being traded are understandable since they netted them Pau Gasol and Steve Nash but the 2009, 2011 and 2012 trades were stupid for the talent they got back. Now, the players they missed out on in the 2009 NBA Draft weren’t much with Danny Green, Dajuan Blair, Chase Budinger, Jodie Meeks, who they later sign some years later and Patrick Beverley, who they drafted that night but traded for a 2011 second-round pick. Now, the 2011 and 2012 NBA Drafts, they left some real heavy-hitters on the boards with their trades as Jimmy Butler and Chandler Parsons were both available in 2011 and Draymond Green in 2012.
The Lakers never valued youth much throughout these times. I think Phil Jackson had to do with some of that while he was there too, since he historically doesn’t play rookies or young players in general.
Also, the Lakers morgaged the future with the Dwight Howard and Steve Nash trades and rightfully so since no one predicted everyone would fall off a cliff like that. But now, the have the 2016 NBA Draft top three protected pick to the Sixers looming and the next year in the 2017 NBA Draft, a top five protected pick to the Magic looming as well.
I wonder how they’d be if the Chris Paul trade went down?
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 8:13pm #1006237
wonzi_bellsParticipantA lot of wrong things built up into that season though. From 2008 all the way to 2013, the Lakers traded away all of their first round pick. Now most of those pick were late first-round picks but some of those times, there were still value on the board and first-round picks are a valuable commodities since they offer less contractual risk than valuable second-round picks that you hit on since valuable second-round picks that hit restricted free agency after their first or second seasons can get you hit with a "poison-pill offer" by another team to get you into cap-space and luxury-tax problems and if a second-rounder hits free agency after his fourth season, they automatically become an unrestricted free agent. Plus, you don’t have to deal with KJ McDaniels situations with second-round picks betting on themselves and only signing a one-year deal and then hitting the free agent market early, as opposed to the built in pay scale for first-round picks.
2008 – #28 – Donte Greene – Traded to the Grizzlies in the Pau Gasol trade
2009 – #29 – Tony Douglass – Traded on draft night to the Knicks for cash consederations and a 2011 second-round pick
2010 – #28 – Greivis Vasquez – Traded to the Grizzlies in the Pau Gasol trade
2011 – #27 – JaJuan Johnson – Traded to the Nets for Joe Smith (35 y/o) and a 2011 and 2012 second-round pick
2012 – #24 – Jared Cunningham – Traded, along with shedding a Luke Walton’s $6M contract, to the Cavs in the Ramon Sessions trade, a player who left as an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2012 after 23 games regular season games and 12 playoffs games with the Lakers that lone half-season.
2013 – #19 – Sergey Karasev – Traded to the Cavs in the Ramon Sessions trade as a swap for a Miami first-round pick (#30); The swapped Miami pick traded in the Steve Nash trade (Nemanja Nedovic)
Now, the 2008, 2010 and 2013 picks being traded are understandable since they netted them Pau Gasol and Steve Nash but the 2009, 2011 and 2012 trades were stupid for the talent they got back. Now, the players they missed out on in the 2009 NBA Draft weren’t much with Danny Green, Dajuan Blair, Chase Budinger, Jodie Meeks, who they later sign some years later and Patrick Beverley, who they drafted that night but traded for a 2011 second-round pick. Now, the 2011 and 2012 NBA Drafts, they left some real heavy-hitters on the boards with their trades as Jimmy Butler and Chandler Parsons were both available in 2011 and Draymond Green in 2012.
The Lakers never valued youth much throughout these times. I think Phil Jackson had to do with some of that while he was there too, since he historically doesn’t play rookies or young players in general.
Also, the Lakers morgaged the future with the Dwight Howard and Steve Nash trades and rightfully so since no one predicted everyone would fall off a cliff like that. But now, the have the 2016 NBA Draft top three protected pick to the Sixers looming and the next year in the 2017 NBA Draft, a top five protected pick to the Magic looming as well.
I wonder how they’d be if the Chris Paul trade went down?
0
- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:28pm #1006351
canadabasketballisrisingParticipantAll 3 only played together for 12 games or something around there.
So, lack of chemsitry mainly.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:28pm #1006211
canadabasketballisrisingParticipantAll 3 only played together for 12 games or something around there.
So, lack of chemsitry mainly.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:41pm #1006353
RecoveringVegetarianParticipantHey Now!!! That Lakers season was 1 of the biggest sports conspiracys of all time!! It needs investigating !! I"ll be right back!!!!
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:41pm #1006213
RecoveringVegetarianParticipantHey Now!!! That Lakers season was 1 of the biggest sports conspiracys of all time!! It needs investigating !! I"ll be right back!!!!
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:47pm #1006357
BleedGreen808ParticipantInjuries, chemistry, and coaching
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:47pm #1006217
BleedGreen808ParticipantInjuries, chemistry, and coaching
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:11pm #1006359
mgreener_34ParticipantJust bad timing really. People can point to the 2004 team and definitively say they didn’t win because Payton couldn’t play in the triangle effectively, Malone was hurt, and Shaq and Kobe were fueding, but it’s a little harder with this team.
Nash was breaking down. Dwight was still in the middle of his soap opera and just had the first real dibilitating injury of his life, and Kobe isn’t the type of leader to "rally the troups." They were too slow and old, and their perimeter defense was some of the absolute worst i’ve ever seen. This was the year that Kobe literally just stopped playing D, and they literally had NO ONE besides Kobe who could put the basket in the hoop from the guard position.
I think people tend to play up the injury bug way to much with this team. With the exception of Nash, who still played 50 games, the Lakers had a pretty healthy year. Kobe played 78 game, Howard 76, Meta 75, Jameson 78, and Meeks 76. 6 of their 8 man rotation played vertually every game of the year.
I think the biggest problem with this team was coaching. I can’t think of a worse coach to coach that group of charectors, and I’m still shocked they chose Pringles. Whoever though using a run-and-gun style of play would be a good idea when two of your three best players are post playing center needs to never be involved in basketball again. The Lakers had all the makings of an elite team, but running the system they did just mitigated their stregths. This is easily evident by the fact that a team with Dwight Howard and Ron Artest on it finished 20th in the NBA in defense…Also they focus more on the system and not the players.
You can see this clearly by just looking at Pau Gasols stats, and no, I’m not talking points, boards, assists ect. ect. Looking at his shooting splits. He was asked to do something he wasn’t comfortable doing, and all of a sudden you have a player whos for his career only took 15% of his shots from 16 ft+ now is taking 27!!% of his shots from that range. Pau’s biggest stregth is his shifiness in the post, and Diantoni litterly stripped him of his biggest offensive stregth.
The rest of the team suffered the same fate as Pau, as they were asked to shoot 3s when not a single player on that team except Nash/Blake/Meeks were known for that. Kobe, Jameson, Metta have never been known for their long range game, and again, they were limited to what they could do in that system. Kobe obviously thrived because he’s such a natural killer, but Jameson and Metta became less effective offensive players playing in that system.
Another mistake Pringles made was his allocation of minutes. When you have guys who are 33+ playing 33+ minutes per game, bad things are bound to happen. Diantoni is known for his short bench, and with an aging roster that jst didn’t work out.
A rotation of
Howard-Hill
Pau-Jameson
Metta-Clark
Kobe-Ebanks
Nash-Blake
Could have been good if they had a coach like Doc Rivers or Ric Carlise, but they didn’t have that, so they crumbled. That’s just my interpretation, and I think all these things played a huge part in the Lakers breaking up. Also the unrealistic expectations played a part aswell, as a lot of people thought this team would steamroll the rest of the league
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:11pm #1006219
mgreener_34ParticipantJust bad timing really. People can point to the 2004 team and definitively say they didn’t win because Payton couldn’t play in the triangle effectively, Malone was hurt, and Shaq and Kobe were fueding, but it’s a little harder with this team.
Nash was breaking down. Dwight was still in the middle of his soap opera and just had the first real dibilitating injury of his life, and Kobe isn’t the type of leader to "rally the troups." They were too slow and old, and their perimeter defense was some of the absolute worst i’ve ever seen. This was the year that Kobe literally just stopped playing D, and they literally had NO ONE besides Kobe who could put the basket in the hoop from the guard position.
I think people tend to play up the injury bug way to much with this team. With the exception of Nash, who still played 50 games, the Lakers had a pretty healthy year. Kobe played 78 game, Howard 76, Meta 75, Jameson 78, and Meeks 76. 6 of their 8 man rotation played vertually every game of the year.
I think the biggest problem with this team was coaching. I can’t think of a worse coach to coach that group of charectors, and I’m still shocked they chose Pringles. Whoever though using a run-and-gun style of play would be a good idea when two of your three best players are post playing center needs to never be involved in basketball again. The Lakers had all the makings of an elite team, but running the system they did just mitigated their stregths. This is easily evident by the fact that a team with Dwight Howard and Ron Artest on it finished 20th in the NBA in defense…Also they focus more on the system and not the players.
You can see this clearly by just looking at Pau Gasols stats, and no, I’m not talking points, boards, assists ect. ect. Looking at his shooting splits. He was asked to do something he wasn’t comfortable doing, and all of a sudden you have a player whos for his career only took 15% of his shots from 16 ft+ now is taking 27!!% of his shots from that range. Pau’s biggest stregth is his shifiness in the post, and Diantoni litterly stripped him of his biggest offensive stregth.
The rest of the team suffered the same fate as Pau, as they were asked to shoot 3s when not a single player on that team except Nash/Blake/Meeks were known for that. Kobe, Jameson, Metta have never been known for their long range game, and again, they were limited to what they could do in that system. Kobe obviously thrived because he’s such a natural killer, but Jameson and Metta became less effective offensive players playing in that system.
Another mistake Pringles made was his allocation of minutes. When you have guys who are 33+ playing 33+ minutes per game, bad things are bound to happen. Diantoni is known for his short bench, and with an aging roster that jst didn’t work out.
A rotation of
Howard-Hill
Pau-Jameson
Metta-Clark
Kobe-Ebanks
Nash-Blake
Could have been good if they had a coach like Doc Rivers or Ric Carlise, but they didn’t have that, so they crumbled. That’s just my interpretation, and I think all these things played a huge part in the Lakers breaking up. Also the unrealistic expectations played a part aswell, as a lot of people thought this team would steamroll the rest of the league
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:20pm #1006363
TWILL123ParticipantPooling everything that was said above, it almost seems like it was impossible for anything other than an eventual demise of the Lakers team. Aging players along with lots of big personalities usually is not a recipe for sucess.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:20pm #1006223
TWILL123ParticipantPooling everything that was said above, it almost seems like it was impossible for anything other than an eventual demise of the Lakers team. Aging players along with lots of big personalities usually is not a recipe for sucess.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:36pm #1006369
llperezPau missed like half the season and was playing on bad wheels when he was out there. Nash missed most the season. Dwight wasn’t 100% and did more finger pointing and bickering then actually playing defense. Team was 8 games under .500 at the halfway point then had like the 4th best record in west second half season thanks to Kobe playing at an mvp level the last few months but then he broke down the last couple games and that was all she wrote.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:36pm #1006229
llperezPau missed like half the season and was playing on bad wheels when he was out there. Nash missed most the season. Dwight wasn’t 100% and did more finger pointing and bickering then actually playing defense. Team was 8 games under .500 at the halfway point then had like the 4th best record in west second half season thanks to Kobe playing at an mvp level the last few months but then he broke down the last couple games and that was all she wrote.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 9:07pm #1006385
chaParticipantBut I digress, the Lakers’ misfortunes all started in the 2011-2012 off season by hiring Mike Brown and then firing him 5 games into the season. It showed that they never committed to him. It not only cost the Lakes a fortune for his 4 year deal but it also caused a ripple effect in the team’s talented front court especially the young Andrew Bynum, He was openly insubordinate and stubborn. Mike also had the nerve to bench the best player in Kobe Bryant in the 4th quarter no less. And after all of that, they were the victim of an extremely biased NBA commissioner. Somehow, the Lakers managed to swap the Lakers’ seemingly in decline front court in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for a bona fide superstar back court mate in Chris Paul, only to be vetoed by then-commissioner of the Hornet’s ownership (NBA). Now that speaks to two levels: one, Mitch is simply a god in terms of acquiring assets and two, the NBA lost all credibility right there and then by vetoing a trade agreed upon by all teams involved simply because they felt it was ‘unjust’. With his magical wand, GM Mitch Kupchak managed to salvage the entire situation by swapping a disgruntled Bynum for what seemed to be the 2nd best thing in Dwight Howard and signing Steve Nash, Antwan Jamison and Jodie Meeks. However, another slip up occured by introducing Mike D’ Antoni to the fold. I just don’t understand this reasoning. They had the seemingly best front court in the league with Pau, Peace and Dwight and a veteran back court that could compete with anyone in Nash and Bryant and they choose to play uptempo, take jumpshots and disregard defense? It baffles me, really. So as luck would have it, the Lakers came out of the gates with hype but flat. Nash was injured during training camp, Peace and Gasol was in and out of the lineup and Howard, who never regained his Defensive player of the year self, was bothered by his back. Mike being the great coach that he is, he decided to milk the 34 year old vet and made sure not to play Antawn Jamison any minutes one night and play him 15 minutes the next night. As the losses piled up, the Kobe and Howard feud ensued. And basically, the Lakers were doomed to face the Spurs in the first round with Howard seemingly frustrated and got thrown out of the game in what would be his last time wearing the Purple and Gold. To sum up, bad decisions in choosing the right successor to Phil Jackson and just pure bad luck with injuries.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 9:07pm #1006245
chaParticipantBut I digress, the Lakers’ misfortunes all started in the 2011-2012 off season by hiring Mike Brown and then firing him 5 games into the season. It showed that they never committed to him. It not only cost the Lakes a fortune for his 4 year deal but it also caused a ripple effect in the team’s talented front court especially the young Andrew Bynum, He was openly insubordinate and stubborn. Mike also had the nerve to bench the best player in Kobe Bryant in the 4th quarter no less. And after all of that, they were the victim of an extremely biased NBA commissioner. Somehow, the Lakers managed to swap the Lakers’ seemingly in decline front court in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for a bona fide superstar back court mate in Chris Paul, only to be vetoed by then-commissioner of the Hornet’s ownership (NBA). Now that speaks to two levels: one, Mitch is simply a god in terms of acquiring assets and two, the NBA lost all credibility right there and then by vetoing a trade agreed upon by all teams involved simply because they felt it was ‘unjust’. With his magical wand, GM Mitch Kupchak managed to salvage the entire situation by swapping a disgruntled Bynum for what seemed to be the 2nd best thing in Dwight Howard and signing Steve Nash, Antwan Jamison and Jodie Meeks. However, another slip up occured by introducing Mike D’ Antoni to the fold. I just don’t understand this reasoning. They had the seemingly best front court in the league with Pau, Peace and Dwight and a veteran back court that could compete with anyone in Nash and Bryant and they choose to play uptempo, take jumpshots and disregard defense? It baffles me, really. So as luck would have it, the Lakers came out of the gates with hype but flat. Nash was injured during training camp, Peace and Gasol was in and out of the lineup and Howard, who never regained his Defensive player of the year self, was bothered by his back. Mike being the great coach that he is, he decided to milk the 34 year old vet and made sure not to play Antawn Jamison any minutes one night and play him 15 minutes the next night. As the losses piled up, the Kobe and Howard feud ensued. And basically, the Lakers were doomed to face the Spurs in the first round with Howard seemingly frustrated and got thrown out of the game in what would be his last time wearing the Purple and Gold. To sum up, bad decisions in choosing the right successor to Phil Jackson and just pure bad luck with injuries.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 9:07pm #1006387
chaParticipantBut I digress, the Lakers’ misfortunes all started in the 2011-2012 off season by hiring Mike Brown and then firing him 5 games into the season. It showed that they never committed to him. It not only cost the Lakes a fortune for his 4 year deal but it also caused a ripple effect in the team’s talented front court especially the young Andrew Bynum, He was openly insubordinate and stubborn. Mike also had the nerve to bench the best player in Kobe Bryant in the 4th quarter no less. And after all of that, they were the victim of an extremely biased NBA commissioner. Somehow, the Lakers managed to swap the Lakers’ seemingly in decline front court in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for a bona fide superstar back court mate in Chris Paul, only to be vetoed by then-commissioner of the Hornet’s ownership (NBA). Now that speaks to two levels: one, Mitch is simply a god in terms of acquiring assets and two, the NBA lost all credibility right there and then by vetoing a trade agreed upon by all teams involved simply because they felt it was ‘unjust’. With his magical wand, GM Mitch Kupchak managed to salvage the entire situation by swapping a disgruntled Bynum for what seemed to be the 2nd best thing in Dwight Howard and signing Steve Nash, Antwan Jamison and Jodie Meeks. However, another slip up occured by introducing Mike D’ Antoni to the fold. I just don’t understand this reasoning. They had the seemingly best front court in the league with Pau, Peace and Dwight and a veteran back court that could compete with anyone in Nash and Bryant and they choose to play uptempo, take jumpshots and disregard defense? It baffles me, really. So as luck would have it, the Lakers came out of the gates with hype but flat. Nash was injured during training camp, Peace and Gasol was in and out of the lineup and Howard, who never regained his Defensive player of the year self, was bothered by his back. Mike being the great coach that he is, he decided to milk the 34 year old vet and made sure not to play Antawn Jamison any minutes one night and play him 15 minutes the next night. As the losses piled up, the Kobe and Howard feud ensued. And basically, the Lakers were doomed to face the Spurs in the first round with Howard seemingly frustrated and got thrown out of the game in what would be his last time wearing the Purple and Gold. To sum up, bad decisions in choosing the right successor to Phil Jackson and just pure bad luck with injuries.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 9:07pm #1006247
chaParticipantBut I digress, the Lakers’ misfortunes all started in the 2011-2012 off season by hiring Mike Brown and then firing him 5 games into the season. It showed that they never committed to him. It not only cost the Lakes a fortune for his 4 year deal but it also caused a ripple effect in the team’s talented front court especially the young Andrew Bynum, He was openly insubordinate and stubborn. Mike also had the nerve to bench the best player in Kobe Bryant in the 4th quarter no less. And after all of that, they were the victim of an extremely biased NBA commissioner. Somehow, the Lakers managed to swap the Lakers’ seemingly in decline front court in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for a bona fide superstar back court mate in Chris Paul, only to be vetoed by then-commissioner of the Hornet’s ownership (NBA). Now that speaks to two levels: one, Mitch is simply a god in terms of acquiring assets and two, the NBA lost all credibility right there and then by vetoing a trade agreed upon by all teams involved simply because they felt it was ‘unjust’. With his magical wand, GM Mitch Kupchak managed to salvage the entire situation by swapping a disgruntled Bynum for what seemed to be the 2nd best thing in Dwight Howard and signing Steve Nash, Antwan Jamison and Jodie Meeks. However, another slip up occured by introducing Mike D’ Antoni to the fold. I just don’t understand this reasoning. They had the seemingly best front court in the league with Pau, Peace and Dwight and a veteran back court that could compete with anyone in Nash and Bryant and they choose to play uptempo, take jumpshots and disregard defense? It baffles me, really. So as luck would have it, the Lakers came out of the gates with hype but flat. Nash was injured during training camp, Peace and Gasol was in and out of the lineup and Howard, who never regained his Defensive player of the year self, was bothered by his back. Mike being the great coach that he is, he decided to milk the 34 year old vet and made sure not to play Antawn Jamison any minutes one night and play him 15 minutes the next night. As the losses piled up, the Kobe and Howard feud ensued. And basically, the Lakers were doomed to face the Spurs in the first round with Howard seemingly frustrated and got thrown out of the game in what would be his last time wearing the Purple and Gold. To sum up, bad decisions in choosing the right successor to Phil Jackson and just pure bad luck with injuries.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 4:23am #1006405
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantClassic case of a team that looked better on paper than in reality. Dwight was not fully recovered from his back surgery at the beginning of the season. I give him credit for playing through it but the training staff should have recognized he wasn’t ready and held him out longer. The fact that he couldn’t play up to his usual standard led to frustration from both sides.
Nash was a poor fit from the start. He is the type of player that needs to control the ball to be effective and that wasn’t going to happen with Kobe. Then he got hurt 2 games into the season and never really recovered. To make matters worse, Steve Blake hurt his foot by stepping on a spike in a parking lot so they had no capable backup.
I understood the thinking behind the dantoni hire at the time, but he just wasn’t the right man for the personnel they had. They needed a coach that would run an offensive system that would play to their strengths (size, low post scoring). I had my concerns about Phil Jackson’s willingness to coach at the time, but at least he would have been a presence that would command respect and he would of run an offense that would’ve suited the team better.
The biggest problem though with that team was that their was no chemistry or camaraderie. You could tell right away, even in the preseason, that they just didn’t enjoy playing with each other. Kobe and Dwight were never on the same page, pao didn’t get along with dantoni and Nash was never healthy. Even when they started playing better the second half of the season, they still weren’t connected. Dantoni was barely even coaching by the end of the season. They werent even running his offense. It felt more like Kobe was just running the team. Then Kobe tore his Achilles and that was that.
If their core players had all stayed relatively healthy I believe they probably win around 55 games that season. However, that wasn’t going to be a championship team regardless. They just didn’t have the chemistry to make it work.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 4:23am #1006265
Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipantClassic case of a team that looked better on paper than in reality. Dwight was not fully recovered from his back surgery at the beginning of the season. I give him credit for playing through it but the training staff should have recognized he wasn’t ready and held him out longer. The fact that he couldn’t play up to his usual standard led to frustration from both sides.
Nash was a poor fit from the start. He is the type of player that needs to control the ball to be effective and that wasn’t going to happen with Kobe. Then he got hurt 2 games into the season and never really recovered. To make matters worse, Steve Blake hurt his foot by stepping on a spike in a parking lot so they had no capable backup.
I understood the thinking behind the dantoni hire at the time, but he just wasn’t the right man for the personnel they had. They needed a coach that would run an offensive system that would play to their strengths (size, low post scoring). I had my concerns about Phil Jackson’s willingness to coach at the time, but at least he would have been a presence that would command respect and he would of run an offense that would’ve suited the team better.
The biggest problem though with that team was that their was no chemistry or camaraderie. You could tell right away, even in the preseason, that they just didn’t enjoy playing with each other. Kobe and Dwight were never on the same page, pao didn’t get along with dantoni and Nash was never healthy. Even when they started playing better the second half of the season, they still weren’t connected. Dantoni was barely even coaching by the end of the season. They werent even running his offense. It felt more like Kobe was just running the team. Then Kobe tore his Achilles and that was that.
If their core players had all stayed relatively healthy I believe they probably win around 55 games that season. However, that wasn’t going to be a championship team regardless. They just didn’t have the chemistry to make it work.
0- Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:35am #1006430
daggers818ParticipantI agree with Dazzling Dunks. Also, remember that this was Jerry Buss’s last season as owner, and I believe he had this desire, despite the rings won by Phil, to return to the Showtime Lakers of the 80’s — a running, fast-paced style. With that desire, they acquired Nash and paired with Pringles (love that name!) thinking that he’d intall some version of his SSOL offense and bring excitment to the Staples Center fans. It was a bad fit as stated by the other posters, and when it went south, anyone with a basketball brain could see that it would be years before the Lakers could recover from the hole they dug for themselves by sacrificing youth over aging veterans that had little left in the tank.
I had the opportunity to meet with Mitch that year right after Jerry died. Despite me offering hope as a fan, he seemed really distraught and seemed to know then that the Lakers were doomed.
As a diehard Laker fan since 1968, I’m excited about the youth movment now, and hope they can re-spark the team and show upward potential to attract marquee free agents again. In the meantime, perhaps they’ll play hard and together, and even that could be satisyfing much like the Lake Show years with Van Exel, Divac, Ceballos, Jones, etc. Not a great team, but they were super fun to watch.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:35am #1006289
daggers818ParticipantI agree with Dazzling Dunks. Also, remember that this was Jerry Buss’s last season as owner, and I believe he had this desire, despite the rings won by Phil, to return to the Showtime Lakers of the 80’s — a running, fast-paced style. With that desire, they acquired Nash and paired with Pringles (love that name!) thinking that he’d intall some version of his SSOL offense and bring excitment to the Staples Center fans. It was a bad fit as stated by the other posters, and when it went south, anyone with a basketball brain could see that it would be years before the Lakers could recover from the hole they dug for themselves by sacrificing youth over aging veterans that had little left in the tank.
I had the opportunity to meet with Mitch that year right after Jerry died. Despite me offering hope as a fan, he seemed really distraught and seemed to know then that the Lakers were doomed.
As a diehard Laker fan since 1968, I’m excited about the youth movment now, and hope they can re-spark the team and show upward potential to attract marquee free agents again. In the meantime, perhaps they’ll play hard and together, and even that could be satisyfing much like the Lake Show years with Van Exel, Divac, Ceballos, Jones, etc. Not a great team, but they were super fun to watch.
0
- Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:22am #1006428
MopgrassParticipantHoward was a great idea, but Kobe wouldn’t give him the ball like he wanted. Howard thought he should be the go-to offensive player, but he can’t post up. And then Kobe kept challenging him and Howard already thought he was great and didn’t need to be pushed into greatness (by a tactless player). Trading picks for Howard… anyone would do that.
Nash on the other hand… huge, total disaster that was obvious the second it happened. He was 38 and trying to defend John Wall. That’s just silly. Nash couldn’t keep up at all when healthy, nor could he have on steroids. Thinking Nash was the answer was insane. How did they send more than a 2nd rounder for him? I remember screaming at my TV when it happened.
Meta was over the hill. Coaching and DHoward’s attitude killed Howard and Gasol’s ability to work on court together. I knew the whole thing wouldn’t be pretty.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:22am #1006287
MopgrassParticipantHoward was a great idea, but Kobe wouldn’t give him the ball like he wanted. Howard thought he should be the go-to offensive player, but he can’t post up. And then Kobe kept challenging him and Howard already thought he was great and didn’t need to be pushed into greatness (by a tactless player). Trading picks for Howard… anyone would do that.
Nash on the other hand… huge, total disaster that was obvious the second it happened. He was 38 and trying to defend John Wall. That’s just silly. Nash couldn’t keep up at all when healthy, nor could he have on steroids. Thinking Nash was the answer was insane. How did they send more than a 2nd rounder for him? I remember screaming at my TV when it happened.
Meta was over the hill. Coaching and DHoward’s attitude killed Howard and Gasol’s ability to work on court together. I knew the whole thing wouldn’t be pretty.
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