How far will the Hawks fall?

This topic contains 32 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by OhCanada- 10 years, 10 months ago.

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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 2:41am #61152

mgreener_34
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The Atlanta Hawks were the surprise team of 2014-15, winning 60 games and claiming the best team in the East for most of the season. They made it to the ECF before getting swept by a Cavs team that finally started to hit its stride. They were 6th in offense, 6th in defense, had 4x All-Stars, #2 in the league in 3pnt %, 2nd in AST’s, and were practically the Warriors of the East for much of the regular season.
So my question to the forum is, how far will the ATL Hawks fall in the pecking order of the East (if at all), and if so where do they rank?
They are most likely going to have a rotation of:
Horford-Splitter
Milsap-Scott
Sefo-Bazemore
Korver-Hardaway Jr.
Teague-Shroedder
While they lost arguably their best performer in the playoffs in Carrol, they did replace his absense with more bench depth, one of their achilles heals last season. The additions of Splitter and Hardaway are going to be huge for them, as having a legit big man to come in and play is something they lacked all year, and Splitter is one of the best back-up bigs in the game. He also gives them a player who has been to the promised land, and could really help them out mentally. Anyone who watched the PO last year know that the Hawks need those two things desperately, as they had no one to rally the troops when they started to fade, and they also had no one to come in and grab boards/give them consistent minutes when Big Al was on the bench. Splitter should be able to do both of those things. Hardaway is another good addition, because while he isn’t going to be Carrol, he can still be effective in that role for them as a spot up 3pnt shooter. He’s a double didget scorer who takes (52% of his shots last year to be percise…) and makes a ton of threes, and should fit right into their pass heavy offense because of his INSANE 88% 3pnt field goals that are assisted. I expect him to have a great year for ATL, he just needs to make threes and hope to god his defense isn’t as bad as the numbers say it is.
I also think the Hawks have a chance to improve based on internal improvements. Teague gets better every year, but it’s the developement of Shroder which could really push them over the top. In the PO he proved that when asked to score he could do so, and averaged 9ppg in only 18 minutes of action. If he can give them anything off the bench like he did in the PO then I think the ATL bench will be one of the best in the league. Mike Scott and Kent Bazemore are also older players who are just reaching their primes, and both have shown to be solid role players last year. Bazemore for his defense and ability to man up wing players with his size and athleticism, and Scott for his ability to stretch the defense by making his 3pnt shots. This trio with Splitter and Hardaway give the Hawks a nice platoon squad if they wanted, and gives them a lot of versatility to use throughout the game.
I think the Hawks will def. take a step back this season, but not because they got worse, but because other teams got better. They will probably win 50 to 55 games this year, but I still see them falling into the 3-4-5 range unless Jeff Teague finally takes the team over and becomes a legit 1st option. I think CLE easily comes out with a chip on their shoulder and just steamrolls the East, and I also see the Bulls coming out and playing exceptionally well under their new coach with all that depth. Those are the only two teams who I can definitively say are just as deep and talented as the Hawks, and will probably over take them.
I could also see WASH taking them over, just because of the emergense of Wall/Beal/Porter and they added some solid bench pieces in Sessions/Dudley/Anderson. TOR is the other team that got better this year. Adding the player the Hawks will miss the most doesn’t hurt, and I expect this to be the year where Val/DeRozen/Lowry all take a step forward, and again, TOR added some very nice bench depth in Biyombo/Joseph/Wright. I think these teams coaching is a little shotty though, so I don’t trust them to mentain a high level of play throughout an 82 game season, and for that I still have ATL ahead of them. The only other team I think could take them is the Heat. Adding a full year of Whiteside and Dragic is great, same with Winslow, but they need to be healthy. If they are, they are probably better than the Hawks, if they aren’t, idk if they have the kind of depth/experience to withstand a 60 win pace for 82 games.
So I have the Hawks ranked 3rd, taking two steps back this year, and most likely going back to the ECF if they click.
1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Hawks
4. Wiz
5. Heat
6. Tor
7. Bucks
8. Celtics
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 3:11am #1006105
ChicagoCasey
Participant
I have the standings as
1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bucks/Hawks
6. Bucks/Hawks
7. Raptors
8. Celtics/
I can see them slid due to the fact that The top of the eastern conference have gotten significantly stronger, the lack if depth at the wing position, and the three point shooting/spacing. Last year Hawks were great due to their spacing and 3 point shooting. I don’t believe DeMarre Carroll will be great in Toronto as he was in Atlanta and he’s a little overrated, but he fit the Hawks system perfectly. His loss is significant.

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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 3:11am #1006246
ChicagoCasey
Participant
I have the standings as
1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Heat
4. Wizards
5. Bucks/Hawks
6. Bucks/Hawks
7. Raptors
8. Celtics/
I can see them slid due to the fact that The top of the eastern conference have gotten significantly stronger, the lack if depth at the wing position, and the three point shooting/spacing. Last year Hawks were great due to their spacing and 3 point shooting. I don’t believe DeMarre Carroll will be great in Toronto as he was in Atlanta and he’s a little overrated, but he fit the Hawks system perfectly. His loss is significant.

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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 3:50am #1006113

Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
Participant
I don’t think they were quite as good as their record suggests last season. I think they basically just snuck up on a lot of teams. They had a very hot stretch in the middle of the season that allowed them to basically run away with the east, but you saw a lot of their eaknesses get exposed in the playoffs. So much of their offense is built around the threat of korvers shooting, so him being fully healthy to start the season is extremely important for them. You saw how much they struggled offensively in the playoffs when he couldn’t consistently generate and make shots. The loss of Carroll will hurt them on both sides of the floor. I predict anywhere from 43-52 wins this season but I don’t think there is any way they get close to 60 again.
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 3:50am #1006254

Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
Participant
I don’t think they were quite as good as their record suggests last season. I think they basically just snuck up on a lot of teams. They had a very hot stretch in the middle of the season that allowed them to basically run away with the east, but you saw a lot of their eaknesses get exposed in the playoffs. So much of their offense is built around the threat of korvers shooting, so him being fully healthy to start the season is extremely important for them. You saw how much they struggled offensively in the playoffs when he couldn’t consistently generate and make shots. The loss of Carroll will hurt them on both sides of the floor. I predict anywhere from 43-52 wins this season but I don’t think there is any way they get close to 60 again.
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:50am #1006127

Bucks1234
Participant
Seriously how are the Heat going to be a top 3 seed?? Bosh almost died last year, Wade is only getting older and playing maybe 3/4 of a season, an ageing Deng, and no bench?? Ya that sounds like a top 3 team. The Heat will be fighting with Boston, Toronto, and maybe the magic/pistons for the bottom 2 spots of the playoffs. This isn’t 2012 anymore…No Bron, no chance Heat…
Real world playoff order
Cavs, Bulls (if Rose actually stays healthy), Hawks, Bucks, Wiz, Raptors, Heat, Magic

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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:25am #1006133
  
  For_Never_Ever
  Participant
  Bosh has said and it’s reported he is 100% percent. Deng is 30yrs old, he still in his prime or fading a bit now. Gordn Dragic can really play, and I consider him one of the top Guard’s in the league. Hassan Whiteside is a defensive force and finishes around the rim, but is a bone head. They aquired Gerlad Green, Josh McRoberts, Amare, Walker. Chalmers I’ve always thought is overrated when he was getting a lot of praise back then but him being a back up isn’t bad at all. I’m not going say anything about Winslow because he is a Rookie. However his defense should translate right away.
  
  That ship has sailed with me people saying if Rose is Healthy. He likely won’t ever be healthy again with his knees.
  
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:25am #1006274
  
  For_Never_Ever
  Participant
  Bosh has said and it’s reported he is 100% percent. Deng is 30yrs old, he still in his prime or fading a bit now. Gordn Dragic can really play, and I consider him one of the top Guard’s in the league. Hassan Whiteside is a defensive force and finishes around the rim, but is a bone head. They aquired Gerlad Green, Josh McRoberts, Amare, Walker. Chalmers I’ve always thought is overrated when he was getting a lot of praise back then but him being a back up isn’t bad at all. I’m not going say anything about Winslow because he is a Rookie. However his defense should translate right away.
  
  That ship has sailed with me people saying if Rose is Healthy. He likely won’t ever be healthy again with his knees.
  
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:46pm #1006355
  
  mgreener_34
  Participant
  You are seriously overlooking the Heat, and have no idea how injured they were last year. Bosh, Wade, and McRoberts were probably their three best players last year entering the season, and all of them missed significant time. Also, they added Goran Dragic, who averaged nearly 17/3/5 on 50/33/81 shooting, and will have a full season of Whiteside at center, who averaged 12/10/3 in only 23 MINUTES PER GAME! That’s a per 36 of 18/15 and 4 blocks all on 64% shooting. Having a full season of two guys who are just entering their primes who are efficient on both ends of the floor is huge, and fills the need that the Heat have been wanting since LeBron flew in from CLE.
  I also think you have to give some credit to Josh McRoberts. He is no All-Star, but he is a fantastic player who can shoot the 3, rebound, and gets everyone involved by keeping the ball moving. He ranked 3rd in the NBA is passes two seasons ago, which might explain why he has a great 112 ORtg for his career. People seem to forget that this dude was the #1 rated recruit in the 2005 draft class…He obviously is an extremely talented player, and having him come off the bench is big game for a team with so much talent.
  I also think the addition of Winslow is a big deal. He gives them a young, athletic, agressive defensive player to mold into a star, and having him play a defensive 3D role his rookie year is only going to do wonders for him as he won’t be asked to do too much too quick. Think Jimmy Butler for the Bulls.
  Add into the fact that the Heat have two future Hall of Famers in their lineup, and former All-Star Luol Deng to play the SF spot, and I really don’t see how you can’t pick the Heat to be a top team in the East next year if healthy.
  Whiteside-Anderson
  Bosh-McRoberts
  Deng-Green
  Wade-Winslow
  Dragic-Chalmers-Shabazz
  That team is stacked from top to bottom with talent, and have many players who have been to the finals and won before. They have leadership, shooting, athleticism, passing, interior D, perimeter D, shot creators, Stars, depth, and championship pedigree…The Heat will be great next year
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:46pm #1006215
  
  mgreener_34
  Participant
  You are seriously overlooking the Heat, and have no idea how injured they were last year. Bosh, Wade, and McRoberts were probably their three best players last year entering the season, and all of them missed significant time. Also, they added Goran Dragic, who averaged nearly 17/3/5 on 50/33/81 shooting, and will have a full season of Whiteside at center, who averaged 12/10/3 in only 23 MINUTES PER GAME! That’s a per 36 of 18/15 and 4 blocks all on 64% shooting. Having a full season of two guys who are just entering their primes who are efficient on both ends of the floor is huge, and fills the need that the Heat have been wanting since LeBron flew in from CLE.
  I also think you have to give some credit to Josh McRoberts. He is no All-Star, but he is a fantastic player who can shoot the 3, rebound, and gets everyone involved by keeping the ball moving. He ranked 3rd in the NBA is passes two seasons ago, which might explain why he has a great 112 ORtg for his career. People seem to forget that this dude was the #1 rated recruit in the 2005 draft class…He obviously is an extremely talented player, and having him come off the bench is big game for a team with so much talent.
  I also think the addition of Winslow is a big deal. He gives them a young, athletic, agressive defensive player to mold into a star, and having him play a defensive 3D role his rookie year is only going to do wonders for him as he won’t be asked to do too much too quick. Think Jimmy Butler for the Bulls.
  Add into the fact that the Heat have two future Hall of Famers in their lineup, and former All-Star Luol Deng to play the SF spot, and I really don’t see how you can’t pick the Heat to be a top team in the East next year if healthy.
  Whiteside-Anderson
  Bosh-McRoberts
  Deng-Green
  Wade-Winslow
  Dragic-Chalmers-Shabazz
  That team is stacked from top to bottom with talent, and have many players who have been to the finals and won before. They have leadership, shooting, athleticism, passing, interior D, perimeter D, shot creators, Stars, depth, and championship pedigree…The Heat will be great next year
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  - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 5:30am #1006415
    
    Bucks1234
    Participant
    Yes they were injured a lot last year but who’s saying that it won’t happen again this year? Wade only getting older and Bosh missed a lot of last year and also getting older. Josh McRoberts!?? Really!?? He’s sub-par at best! Winslow is the only hope of being decent this year. They will be battling for the bottom 2 spots of playoffs. Gonna be a long season in south beach. Sorry Bron gone no chance. Not 2012 anymore
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  - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 5:30am #1006275
    
    Bucks1234
    Participant
    Yes they were injured a lot last year but who’s saying that it won’t happen again this year? Wade only getting older and Bosh missed a lot of last year and also getting older. Josh McRoberts!?? Really!?? He’s sub-par at best! Winslow is the only hope of being decent this year. They will be battling for the bottom 2 spots of playoffs. Gonna be a long season in south beach. Sorry Bron gone no chance. Not 2012 anymore
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    - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 1:19pm #1006453
      
      For_Never_Ever
      Participant
      Dude, you can say that about Lebron he is only getting older, but is now like completely over hill now by your theory ? How about Kyrie injuries ? I’m saying the Heats as a whole are a good team.
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    - Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 1:19pm #1006313
      
      For_Never_Ever
      Participant
      Dude, you can say that about Lebron he is only getting older, but is now like completely over hill now by your theory ? How about Kyrie injuries ? I’m saying the Heats as a whole are a good team.
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 5:50am #1006268

Bucks1234
Participant
Seriously how are the Heat going to be a top 3 seed?? Bosh almost died last year, Wade is only getting older and playing maybe 3/4 of a season, an ageing Deng, and no bench?? Ya that sounds like a top 3 team. The Heat will be fighting with Boston, Toronto, and maybe the magic/pistons for the bottom 2 spots of the playoffs. This isn’t 2012 anymore…No Bron, no chance Heat…
Real world playoff order
Cavs, Bulls (if Rose actually stays healthy), Hawks, Bucks, Wiz, Raptors, Heat, Magic

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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:17am #1006129

BleedGreen808
Participant
Does anybody know if divison winners still get a top 4 seed? I know they said they might change it but I don’t remember seeing an announcement on it. It would affect how the standings look.
I’ll assume the division winners still get a top 4 seed. Honestly I wouldn’t have Toronto 4th if it weren’t for division winners getting automatic top 4 spot. I think both the Wizards and Heat could both have better records than the Raptors.
1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Hawks
4. Raptors
5. Wizards
6. Heat
7. Bucks
8. Celtics
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 11:32am #1006164
  
  wonzi_bells
  Participant
  They have changed it yet but it’ll probably be coming within the next couple of months. It’ll go off the the conference standings, 1 through 8.
  1. CLE – Went 34-10 after the LeBron sabticle
  2. ATL – They’re style still lends itself to win a lot of games in the regular season and while Carroll is a significant loss since he can guard 2’s, 3’s and 4’s, they still have Sefolosha, who while he won’t be able to guard 4’s and can’t provide as much scoring punch, he can still provide the premise of a dynamic wing scorer. It’ll be contingent on his health though but from everything I hear, he’ll be ready by training camp. They still have the two most important players that make that Spurs ball work with Horford and Korver. Although, the Mike Scott situation might eat into their depth if he goes to jail, even though they have Splitter.
  3. CHI
  4. WAS – This is if Wittman decides shooting threes and playing small ball lineups are actually a good thing with . As well as Beal getting more offensive usage.
  5. TOR
  6. MIA – They have the largest variable for their wins and losses. I wouldn’t argue with anyone if they were as high as 2.
  7. MIL – They went 11-18 after the trade deadline when they got Michael Carter-Williams. Parker will be coming off an injury that usually leaves players rusty for a year and they loss depth with Ilyasova and Dudley. Depends if Vasquez is used more in the fourth quarter since he’ll provide spacing as Dudley suggested in the Zach Lowe podcast.
  8. BOS
  
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- Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 11:32am #1006304
  
  wonzi_bells
  Participant
  They have changed it yet but it’ll probably be coming within the next couple of months. It’ll go off the the conference standings, 1 through 8.
  1. CLE – Went 34-10 after the LeBron sabticle
  2. ATL – They’re style still lends itself to win a lot of games in the regular season and while Carroll is a significant loss since he can guard 2’s, 3’s and 4’s, they still have Sefolosha, who while he won’t be able to guard 4’s and can’t provide as much scoring punch, he can still provide the premise of a dynamic wing scorer. It’ll be contingent on his health though but from everything I hear, he’ll be ready by training camp. They still have the two most important players that make that Spurs ball work with Horford and Korver. Although, the Mike Scott situation might eat into their depth if he goes to jail, even though they have Splitter.
  3. CHI
  4. WAS – This is if Wittman decides shooting threes and playing small ball lineups are actually a good thing with . As well as Beal getting more offensive usage.
  5. TOR
  6. MIA – They have the largest variable for their wins and losses. I wouldn’t argue with anyone if they were as high as 2.
  7. MIL – They went 11-18 after the trade deadline when they got Michael Carter-Williams. Parker will be coming off an injury that usually leaves players rusty for a year and they loss depth with Ilyasova and Dudley. Depends if Vasquez is used more in the fourth quarter since he’ll provide spacing as Dudley suggested in the Zach Lowe podcast.
  8. BOS
  
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:17am #1006270

BleedGreen808
Participant
Does anybody know if divison winners still get a top 4 seed? I know they said they might change it but I don’t remember seeing an announcement on it. It would affect how the standings look.
I’ll assume the division winners still get a top 4 seed. Honestly I wouldn’t have Toronto 4th if it weren’t for division winners getting automatic top 4 spot. I think both the Wizards and Heat could both have better records than the Raptors.
1. Cavs
2. Bulls
3. Hawks
4. Raptors
5. Wizards
6. Heat
7. Bucks
8. Celtics
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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:12pm #1006361

OhCanada-
Participant
You guys are sleeping on the Pacers big-time. The only question mark they have is at the PF position but it shouldn’t even be an issue. They have Jordan Hill, Myles Turner and Lavoy Allen who are all serviceable bigs. Soloman Hill and Paul George can both spend some time at PF for smallbal and the backcourt and wings are stacked with depth. George Hill, Ellis, Stuckey, CJ Miles, Budinger. I even like the two rookies they are bringing in Joe Young and Rakeem Christmas.
The colour commentators should have their handsful with all the similar names. Myles Turner, CJ Miles, Paul George, George Hill, and two other Hills.

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Posted on: Fri, 08/07/2015 - 6:12pm #1006221

OhCanada-
Participant
You guys are sleeping on the Pacers big-time. The only question mark they have is at the PF position but it shouldn’t even be an issue. They have Jordan Hill, Myles Turner and Lavoy Allen who are all serviceable bigs. Soloman Hill and Paul George can both spend some time at PF for smallbal and the backcourt and wings are stacked with depth. George Hill, Ellis, Stuckey, CJ Miles, Budinger. I even like the two rookies they are bringing in Joe Young and Rakeem Christmas.
The colour commentators should have their handsful with all the similar names. Myles Turner, CJ Miles, Paul George, George Hill, and two other Hills.

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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 5:25am #1006413

Bucks1234
Participant
Look at the entire bucks roster!! Seriously even if Parker is a bit rusty and that’s a big if, they still have the biggest, longest, and most athletic team in the east! Giannis is a beast and only 20! Parker will be good by December. And Monroe adds low post scoring which they desperately needed. MCW will be better under a full year of Kidd coaching him. They will be a top 4 team in the east this year barring any major injuries.

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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 5:25am #1006273

Bucks1234
Participant
Look at the entire bucks roster!! Seriously even if Parker is a bit rusty and that’s a big if, they still have the biggest, longest, and most athletic team in the east! Giannis is a beast and only 20! Parker will be good by December. And Monroe adds low post scoring which they desperately needed. MCW will be better under a full year of Kidd coaching him. They will be a top 4 team in the east this year barring any major injuries.

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- Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 6:02am #1006417
  
  T Rex
  Bucks are still short on outside shooters and spacing. We saw how that worked out for the Pistons, year after year after year.
  Celtics are the better team, and played way, way better after the trade deadline.
  
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- Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 6:02am #1006277
  
  T Rex
  Bucks are still short on outside shooters and spacing. We saw how that worked out for the Pistons, year after year after year.
  Celtics are the better team, and played way, way better after the trade deadline.
  
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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 6:06am #1006420

T Rex
The east is wide open. Miami and Chicago getting ranked high because of past accomplishments, but they are aging quickly. Even Dragic at 29 years old might be over the hill physically, and he’s an awful defender at his best.
If the Heat waive Chalmers for tax reasons, then Miami is left with Dragic and Napier at PG, two guys who can’t defend at all.

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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 6:06am #1006279

T Rex
The east is wide open. Miami and Chicago getting ranked high because of past accomplishments, but they are aging quickly. Even Dragic at 29 years old might be over the hill physically, and he’s an awful defender at his best.
If the Heat waive Chalmers for tax reasons, then Miami is left with Dragic and Napier at PG, two guys who can’t defend at all.

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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:19am #1006424

Tap892
Participant
Well Wade just had his first postseason off, after 4 straight finals appearances so hopefully that will help him with his health
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Posted on: Sat, 08/08/2015 - 7:19am #1006283

Tap892
Participant
Well Wade just had his first postseason off, after 4 straight finals appearances so hopefully that will help him with his health
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Posted on: Sun, 08/09/2015 - 3:10am #1006412

Hitster
Participant
The Hawks losing Carroll was a big blow but they retained other major FA’s notably Paul Millsap and flipping the pick via Knicks into Tim Hardaway Jnr gives them a proven young player who can help fill Carroll’s minutes indirectly.
The addition of Tiago Splitter gives them a proven 3rd big man with vast experience who knows Mike Budenholzer well from their time together at the Spurs.
Dennis Schroder made huge progress last year and is still only 21 years old so could have a lot more upside to come this year and might be an MIP/6th man dark horse contender to consider.
I don’t see the Hawks winning 60 plus games again but they will likely win well over 50 games and be a top 4 seed contender out East. I don’t see them as likely champions but they could well go as far as Conference Finals again.

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Posted on: Sun, 08/09/2015 - 3:10am #1006551

Hitster
Participant
The Hawks losing Carroll was a big blow but they retained other major FA’s notably Paul Millsap and flipping the pick via Knicks into Tim Hardaway Jnr gives them a proven young player who can help fill Carroll’s minutes indirectly.
The addition of Tiago Splitter gives them a proven 3rd big man with vast experience who knows Mike Budenholzer well from their time together at the Spurs.
Dennis Schroder made huge progress last year and is still only 21 years old so could have a lot more upside to come this year and might be an MIP/6th man dark horse contender to consider.
I don’t see the Hawks winning 60 plus games again but they will likely win well over 50 games and be a top 4 seed contender out East. I don’t see them as likely champions but they could well go as far as Conference Finals again.

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Posted on: Sun, 08/09/2015 - 10:38am #1006637

OhCanada-
Participant
don’t thi nk the Celtics make the playoffs this year. I think the Pacers, Magic and Pistons are better teams.
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Posted on: Sun, 08/09/2015 - 10:38am #1006497

OhCanada-
Participant
don’t thi nk the Celtics make the playoffs this year. I think the Pacers, Magic and Pistons are better teams.
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