Topic no-one wants to talk about…

 I wouldn’t say it’s the US slipping.  It’s more that the game has spread around the world.  For example kids are playing basketball even where other sports like soccer dominate.  Another reason is scouts are now more aware of prospects in other countries.  Pro leagues in Spain, Australia, Turkey, China, etc allow scouts to see talented young players develop.  

 I wouldn’t say it’s the US slipping.  It’s more that the game has spread around the world.  For example kids are playing basketball even where other sports like soccer dominate.  Another reason is scouts are now more aware of prospects in other countries.  Pro leagues in Spain, Australia, Turkey, China, etc allow scouts to see talented young players develop.  

All our best players don’t play international basketball and it’s a different game. I anticipate Canada will start to become more of a player with the talent they have.

One thing that also changed things was when USA basketball started to build an actual basketball team, and not just a collection of players. You need a lockdown defender like Andre Iguodala instead of guys that just pretend to play defense. I’m excited to see what we do next Olympics. The center position has been weak for USA basketball for a while. Will we even have a center? Probably not.

All our best players don’t play international basketball and it’s a different game. I anticipate Canada will start to become more of a player with the talent they have.

One thing that also changed things was when USA basketball started to build an actual basketball team, and not just a collection of players. You need a lockdown defender like Andre Iguodala instead of guys that just pretend to play defense. I’m excited to see what we do next Olympics. The center position has been weak for USA basketball for a while. Will we even have a center? Probably not.

 Will other countries start to close the gap? Absolutely but it’s a huge plus for the NBA and the game as a whole, and in turn us as a country. It means that with other countries starting to produce top players the NBA will have a larger talent pool to choose from and the overall talent (and hopefully skill as well) level should rise accordingly.

Other countries improving will also force us to work harder and build more cohesion within US basketball and the development side of things. Honestly I think we’ll still be the best in the world for a very long time but that doesn’t mean we won’t lose the occasional international game here and there. As much as I loved watching the Dream Team play when I was a kid, international ball would be more entertaining if it was actually competitive. 

 Will other countries start to close the gap? Absolutely but it’s a huge plus for the NBA and the game as a whole, and in turn us as a country. It means that with other countries starting to produce top players the NBA will have a larger talent pool to choose from and the overall talent (and hopefully skill as well) level should rise accordingly.

Other countries improving will also force us to work harder and build more cohesion within US basketball and the development side of things. Honestly I think we’ll still be the best in the world for a very long time but that doesn’t mean we won’t lose the occasional international game here and there. As much as I loved watching the Dream Team play when I was a kid, international ball would be more entertaining if it was actually competitive. 

Of course not all of the best athletes are going to be born solely in the United States. Although, is it not also sort of funny that the three biggest Australian born basketball prospects (Kyrie Irving, Dante Exum and Ben Simmons) had fathers born and raised in the United States? Did not piece that one together, seemingly. Genetics certainly seem to be some part of there success. Same goes for Andrew Wiggins.

As far as players from Europe, tend to see some connection between top basketball prospects either coming from people who have played basketball or pass on positive genetic traits to excel in basketball. Do not think that being born in the United States automatically makes someone a better basketball player. It does seem that it may give somewhat of an advantage in resources as far as coaching, places to play and competition level.

Africa seems to be the next step and while it is more individual as opposed to national team success, there certainly seems to be some prospects from that continent who have either had a huge impact or could have a huge impact. With all of this said, lets get to half not being American before we throw out 2/3.

Now, I know this is not the most foolproof way of doing this, but, it is simple enough. So, using ESPN statistics (and choosing “All Players”), here are the number of International Players and how it has fluctuated through the last 11 years:

2004-05: 32

2005-06: 38

2006-07: 46

2007-08: 56

2008-09: 72

2009-10: 83

2010-11: 84

2011-12: 81

2012-13: 76

2013-14: 79

2014-15: 87

Almost tripled from 2004, which is incredible. But, as you can see, has kind of stagnated these last 6 seasons, with the record for most International players coming this past season (yes, this does include Kyrie Irving, and any player born outside of the US).

This past year of high school basketball was definitely pretty interesting as far as just how many players at the top of the class were internationally born as well. I would say that the scouting and team building at the Hoop Summit has been phenomenal, with a couple big time prospects who are expected to be the future of Canadian/Australian basketball. 2012 and 2013 also had big time pro players, while as I said with this years group, this is an incredible amount of international talent at the top of the HS class.

Still, this is a USA vs. the World format. Basketball has grown so much around the world, but we are past the point where US teams filled with top professionals have lost to countries, so when they lose to some of the top players under the World Under-19 in a single game, it is not exactly news that there are some fantastic basketball players surrounding the globe and Nike does a great job putting them together to challenge some of the top US high school players.

However, even with the excess of top International talent at the top of the draft, you will see that 19 out of the current 30 picks mocked in the 2016 first round would play for the US (if they have not already). For the serge of International talent at the top of the 2014 Draft (Towns, Porzingis, Hezonja, Mudiay), 24 out of 30 first round picks are also American. With the record 87 international players playing at least one NBA game this season, their were 492 players, meaning that still only counts for 17.7% of the league.

I know the league is not just 1st round picks, though 72 of the top 80 scorers as far as 2014-15 ppg were 1st round selections. 12 of the 72 were International players chosen in the 1st round, while 2 out of the 8 chosen were International players chosen in the 2nd round. So, 14 out of 80 overall is still right near that overall percentage in the league (17.5%). The record for most international players chosen in any one draft is 19 (or 31.7% in 2005, 2013 and 2014), with 17 coming this year. Which means we have yet where 1/3 of the players are Internationally born.

It seems the next step would be having that happen, or seeing a similar general rise that we saw before it sort of stagnated around 80 or so. I would not be surprised if we got past 90 this season, with the next step being getting the total number of foreign born players to 20% of the league. Than 25%.

If you really wanted to place a realistic goal, it would probably be a 1/3 (a little less than double the current percentage) of the league being International as opposed to 2/3. The game is growing and luckily, we are getting some fantastic athletes to excel at basketball like we never have before. Only hope this trend continues and USA basketball seems to be taking preparation to at least keep up with this trend on the national level.

We have a Bahamian prospect who seems to be among the best we have seen in a while and other countries will have major things to offer. You still see that at the top of drafts and the league, there are some tremendous American prospects still on the horizon. International teams from numerous foreign countries are seeing vast improvement, though as we saw in 2014, the USA does not seem to be going away. Plus, if you check the numbers, while the world may be catching up, American born players still make up a major portion of the league.

Of course not all of the best athletes are going to be born solely in the United States. Although, is it not also sort of funny that the three biggest Australian born basketball prospects (Kyrie Irving, Dante Exum and Ben Simmons) had fathers born and raised in the United States? Did not piece that one together, seemingly. Genetics certainly seem to be some part of there success. Same goes for Andrew Wiggins.

As far as players from Europe, tend to see some connection between top basketball prospects either coming from people who have played basketball or pass on positive genetic traits to excel in basketball. Do not think that being born in the United States automatically makes someone a better basketball player. It does seem that it may give somewhat of an advantage in resources as far as coaching, places to play and competition level.

Africa seems to be the next step and while it is more individual as opposed to national team success, there certainly seems to be some prospects from that continent who have either had a huge impact or could have a huge impact. With all of this said, lets get to half not being American before we throw out 2/3.

Now, I know this is not the most foolproof way of doing this, but, it is simple enough. So, using ESPN statistics (and choosing “All Players”), here are the number of International Players and how it has fluctuated through the last 11 years:

2004-05: 32

2005-06: 38

2006-07: 46

2007-08: 56

2008-09: 72

2009-10: 83

2010-11: 84

2011-12: 81

2012-13: 76

2013-14: 79

2014-15: 87

Almost tripled from 2004, which is incredible. But, as you can see, has kind of stagnated these last 6 seasons, with the record for most International players coming this past season (yes, this does include Kyrie Irving, and any player born outside of the US).

This past year of high school basketball was definitely pretty interesting as far as just how many players at the top of the class were internationally born as well. I would say that the scouting and team building at the Hoop Summit has been phenomenal, with a couple big time prospects who are expected to be the future of Canadian/Australian basketball. 2012 and 2013 also had big time pro players, while as I said with this years group, this is an incredible amount of international talent at the top of the HS class.

Still, this is a USA vs. the World format. Basketball has grown so much around the world, but we are past the point where US teams filled with top professionals have lost to countries, so when they lose to some of the top players under the World Under-19 in a single game, it is not exactly news that there are some fantastic basketball players surrounding the globe and Nike does a great job putting them together to challenge some of the top US high school players.

However, even with the excess of top International talent at the top of the draft, you will see that 19 out of the current 30 picks mocked in the 2016 first round would play for the US (if they have not already). For the serge of International talent at the top of the 2014 Draft (Towns, Porzingis, Hezonja, Mudiay), 24 out of 30 first round picks are also American. With the record 87 international players playing at least one NBA game this season, their were 492 players, meaning that still only counts for 17.7% of the league.

I know the league is not just 1st round picks, though 72 of the top 80 scorers as far as 2014-15 ppg were 1st round selections. 12 of the 72 were International players chosen in the 1st round, while 2 out of the 8 chosen were International players chosen in the 2nd round. So, 14 out of 80 overall is still right near that overall percentage in the league (17.5%). The record for most international players chosen in any one draft is 19 (or 31.7% in 2005, 2013 and 2014), with 17 coming this year. Which means we have yet where 1/3 of the players are Internationally born.

It seems the next step would be having that happen, or seeing a similar general rise that we saw before it sort of stagnated around 80 or so. I would not be surprised if we got past 90 this season, with the next step being getting the total number of foreign born players to 20% of the league. Than 25%.

If you really wanted to place a realistic goal, it would probably be a 1/3 (a little less than double the current percentage) of the league being International as opposed to 2/3. The game is growing and luckily, we are getting some fantastic athletes to excel at basketball like we never have before. Only hope this trend continues and USA basketball seems to be taking preparation to at least keep up with this trend on the national level.

We have a Bahamian prospect who seems to be among the best we have seen in a while and other countries will have major things to offer. You still see that at the top of drafts and the league, there are some tremendous American prospects still on the horizon. International teams from numerous foreign countries are seeing vast improvement, though as we saw in 2014, the USA does not seem to be going away. Plus, if you check the numbers, while the world may be catching up, American born players still make up a major portion of the league.

 What a weird time to make this thread considering the gap b/t the US and the rest of the world is widening. As far as individual country rivals, there are none. For example, this past Spanish and Greek generation is getting older and they haven’t been replaced at a steady rate. The stream of int’l players to the NBA has actually slowed down.  With the exception of Canada, who’s players leave to play in the states, there aren’t any countries supplying a steady stream of talent to the NBA. 1-2 players a year or other year is hardly a steady influx.

 A Congolese player, a Dominican player? So what? They’re about as international as I am. Towns was born here and Mudiay has lived in the States since he was 4.

The Hoops Summit games are no representation of what is happening globally in basketball.  Look what happens to a lot of those int’l players in the following years.  The majority of them don’t even sniff the NBA, but they have the benefit of being singled out as the best in their individual countries, with the benefit of receiving pro coaching and competition at an early age, while US players are screwing around developing bad habits on the AAU circuit and inferior HS comp. Mature games at a lower age can beat more talented players, but over the course of time, talent has more staying power as they catch up on the mental side.

Just look at the ratio of US draftees to int’l draftees. It’s as ridiculous as ever. This thread would’ve been more interesting and would’ve had more truth to it maybe 5-7 years ago, not now.

 What a weird time to make this thread considering the gap b/t the US and the rest of the world is widening. As far as individual country rivals, there are none. For example, this past Spanish and Greek generation is getting older and they haven’t been replaced at a steady rate. The stream of int’l players to the NBA has actually slowed down.  With the exception of Canada, who’s players leave to play in the states, there aren’t any countries supplying a steady stream of talent to the NBA. 1-2 players a year or other year is hardly a steady influx.

 A Congolese player, a Dominican player? So what? They’re about as international as I am. Towns was born here and Mudiay has lived in the States since he was 4.

The Hoops Summit games are no representation of what is happening globally in basketball.  Look what happens to a lot of those int’l players in the following years.  The majority of them don’t even sniff the NBA, but they have the benefit of being singled out as the best in their individual countries, with the benefit of receiving pro coaching and competition at an early age, while US players are screwing around developing bad habits on the AAU circuit and inferior HS comp. Mature games at a lower age can beat more talented players, but over the course of time, talent has more staying power as they catch up on the mental side.

Just look at the ratio of US draftees to int’l draftees. It’s as ridiculous as ever. This thread would’ve been more interesting and would’ve had more truth to it maybe 5-7 years ago, not now.

 I agree and the reason for this is simple, the European model of player development is far superior to the American one. This is why the Europeans are closing the gap in basketball much faster than we are in football(soccer). The idea that we force our top junior athletes to go to college and sit thru classes on comparative lit is laughable.

 I agree and the reason for this is simple, the European model of player development is far superior to the American one. This is why the Europeans are closing the gap in basketball much faster than we are in football(soccer). The idea that we force our top junior athletes to go to college and sit thru classes on comparative lit is laughable.

 Where US is losing most of its basketball market is at the 4 and 5 positions. Big men are just better developed in Europe, they have all the fundamentals from and early age because grassroots level there is different then here. A lot of emphasis is put on the touch around the basket, hook shots, Hakeem the Dream moves and so on. European big men can all step out and shoot and are very very good FT shooters.

US most big men are just very very athletic and aggresive, which definetely serves its purpose as well, but down the stretch in big games it creates bad situations. This is what i really have noticed.

US will stay the best in the world because their guards and wings are superior to any other country in the world and they really develop them realllyy well.

 Where US is losing most of its basketball market is at the 4 and 5 positions. Big men are just better developed in Europe, they have all the fundamentals from and early age because grassroots level there is different then here. A lot of emphasis is put on the touch around the basket, hook shots, Hakeem the Dream moves and so on. European big men can all step out and shoot and are very very good FT shooters.

US most big men are just very very athletic and aggresive, which definetely serves its purpose as well, but down the stretch in big games it creates bad situations. This is what i really have noticed.

US will stay the best in the world because their guards and wings are superior to any other country in the world and they really develop them realllyy well.

 Apparently African-based and Eastern European genetics are superior.

Big Tall white guys with skill, and Big Tall black guys with elite athleticism and/or skill.

The US has a better hold on the market for shorter players, I would say.

Who is the shortest international top draft pick this year? The only guy I can think of is Hezonja, and he’s almost 6’9".

Yup, the US still produces far and away the best point guards, combo guards, and shooting guards.

 Apparently African-based and Eastern European genetics are superior.

Big Tall white guys with skill, and Big Tall black guys with elite athleticism and/or skill.

The US has a better hold on the market for shorter players, I would say.

Who is the shortest international top draft pick this year? The only guy I can think of is Hezonja, and he’s almost 6’9".

Yup, the US still produces far and away the best point guards, combo guards, and shooting guards.

 RIP is in need of attention,he posts everything he can in order to make people react. So I’m gonna say this,you only need 12 players at the olympics,and as long as there will be guys like Curry,Anthony Davis,Durant,Westbrook,Irving in the olympics,there’s a strong chance they win. Now I’m french and I love our team,but we’re just not there yet neither. It’s clearly 1)the world catching up 2)Every good european player will come to the NBA at some point in his career now. I heard a Jazz insider who said rookie struggle more now because the 5 international players that are on your team,they weren’t there 10 years ago. But again I don’t see team USA getting beaten anytime soon.

 RIP is in need of attention,he posts everything he can in order to make people react. So I’m gonna say this,you only need 12 players at the olympics,and as long as there will be guys like Curry,Anthony Davis,Durant,Westbrook,Irving in the olympics,there’s a strong chance they win. Now I’m french and I love our team,but we’re just not there yet neither. It’s clearly 1)the world catching up 2)Every good european player will come to the NBA at some point in his career now. I heard a Jazz insider who said rookie struggle more now because the 5 international players that are on your team,they weren’t there 10 years ago. But again I don’t see team USA getting beaten anytime soon.

 The Aussie guy isn’t really Aussie though even though I am Australian myself, I can’t claim Ben Simmons to be a product of us. His Dad is American and its his dad’s American style coaching that got him to the top of Australian hoops, and his god given attributes and work ethic once he moved to the states that got him to the top of draft boards. US ball is still far and away the best talent producer on the face of the earth

 The Aussie guy isn’t really Aussie though even though I am Australian myself, I can’t claim Ben Simmons to be a product of us. His Dad is American and its his dad’s American style coaching that got him to the top of Australian hoops, and his god given attributes and work ethic once he moved to the states that got him to the top of draft boards. US ball is still far and away the best talent producer on the face of the earth

The NBA was played at its fastest pace back in the late 80s early 90s.. The talent in the USA isn’t getting any worse nor is the talent overseas getting that much better, I will give you that the game of basketball is more popular now due to the fact its a global game.. But back in the day Europeans couldn’t keep up with the pace of the NBA back in the late 80s early 90s.. The result now is more European player can make careers for themselves cause the NBA is slower now… Look it up all the stats are there

The NBA was played at its fastest pace back in the late 80s early 90s.. The talent in the USA isn’t getting any worse nor is the talent overseas getting that much better, I will give you that the game of basketball is more popular now due to the fact its a global game.. But back in the day Europeans couldn’t keep up with the pace of the NBA back in the late 80s early 90s.. The result now is more European player can make careers for themselves cause the NBA is slower now… Look it up all the stats are there

If you want to project an optimistic future development for the world-wide spread of basketball just look at football (soccer). Football remains the most widely played game, and every kid that starts playing football aims at reaching the top league, which as of today is still the Britisch Premier League. In that league, the number of foreigners has slowly rised, and all players crave to get into one of the top British sides like Chelsea, Man. Utd, Man. City, Liverpool and Arsenal, as these teams are the most wealthy in the world, and as a result pay the highest salaries. As of now, between 30 and 35% of the BPL is English, with the rest being made up of the best players from all over the world.

If the game of basketball develops like the NBA hopes, and it gains more popularity world-wide, more foreign kids will start playing basketball from a younger age. As a result, the overall level of world-wide talent will rise, with more and more talented basketball players not being born in the US. At the same time, teams are getting better at scouting internationally, and they get more comfortable in picking up players from overseas. This might result in a relative drop of US players in the NBA, which might also affect Team USA. However, as the gap is still immense I see no other country overtaking the US anytime soon. Canada has talented guys, and considering they are close to the US (in terms of geography and education system) they are basically a copy of the US system of talent development. In terms of numbers, most big countries have reasons why basketball is not sport number one (Brasil: football, India: cricket or field hockey, China: football is growing fast than basketball).

I actually consider the African countries as having the best chance to become a force, but much like in football, they lack the organization and facilities to properly develop their talent right now (which is why young African basketball players leave the continent).

If you want to project an optimistic future development for the world-wide spread of basketball just look at football (soccer). Football remains the most widely played game, and every kid that starts playing football aims at reaching the top league, which as of today is still the Britisch Premier League. In that league, the number of foreigners has slowly rised, and all players crave to get into one of the top British sides like Chelsea, Man. Utd, Man. City, Liverpool and Arsenal, as these teams are the most wealthy in the world, and as a result pay the highest salaries. As of now, between 30 and 35% of the BPL is English, with the rest being made up of the best players from all over the world.

If the game of basketball develops like the NBA hopes, and it gains more popularity world-wide, more foreign kids will start playing basketball from a younger age. As a result, the overall level of world-wide talent will rise, with more and more talented basketball players not being born in the US. At the same time, teams are getting better at scouting internationally, and they get more comfortable in picking up players from overseas. This might result in a relative drop of US players in the NBA, which might also affect Team USA. However, as the gap is still immense I see no other country overtaking the US anytime soon. Canada has talented guys, and considering they are close to the US (in terms of geography and education system) they are basically a copy of the US system of talent development. In terms of numbers, most big countries have reasons why basketball is not sport number one (Brasil: football, India: cricket or field hockey, China: football is growing fast than basketball).

I actually consider the African countries as having the best chance to become a force, but much like in football, they lack the organization and facilities to properly develop their talent right now (which is why young African basketball players leave the continent).

Lol, while the game is becoming more global, the U.S. will always be the preeminent basketball power in the world. The only country that can pose even a semblence of a threat to the US is Canada. Half, if not all of the int’l players who come to the NBA, come to America to get trained and play high school basketball anyway. Think of the young players who played for team USA last summer, Curry, Harden, Davis, Irving, Thompson,,,,,,,,,That five WILL NOT LOSE TO ANYONE IN THE WORLD!!! Thats not including Lebron, not including Durant, not including Westbrook, not including Blake or Deandre or CP3 or Paul George, or Drose, lmao!!!! The USA is stacked they’re in totally good hands. U19 team just ran through that FIBA tournament as well, while other countries are now becoming competitive, USA is still always the best.  

Lol, while the game is becoming more global, the U.S. will always be the preeminent basketball power in the world. The only country that can pose even a semblence of a threat to the US is Canada. Half, if not all of the int’l players who come to the NBA, come to America to get trained and play high school basketball anyway. Think of the young players who played for team USA last summer, Curry, Harden, Davis, Irving, Thompson,,,,,,,,,That five WILL NOT LOSE TO ANYONE IN THE WORLD!!! Thats not including Lebron, not including Durant, not including Westbrook, not including Blake or Deandre or CP3 or Paul George, or Drose, lmao!!!! The USA is stacked they’re in totally good hands. U19 team just ran through that FIBA tournament as well, while other countries are now becoming competitive, USA is still always the best.  

this is exactly want the nba wants thats global growth…..becuz back in the late 70’s & early 80’s after some of its brightests and biggets stars like wilt,oscar,west and russell retired ..the nba became known for its drug use, selfish play and was labeled too black….attendance was down and tv ratings declined,things were so bad the networks were afraid to show the finals in prime time…

you have to credit magic,bird,jordan and david stern for taking the sport worldwide….and by the time the dream team was created, kids overseas watching those players became interested in the sport…

alot of respected nba and college coaches held clinics and camps working with youngsters overseas…

this is exactly want the nba wants thats global growth…..becuz back in the late 70’s & early 80’s after some of its brightests and biggets stars like wilt,oscar,west and russell retired ..the nba became known for its drug use, selfish play and was labeled too black….attendance was down and tv ratings declined,things were so bad the networks were afraid to show the finals in prime time…

you have to credit magic,bird,jordan and david stern for taking the sport worldwide….and by the time the dream team was created, kids overseas watching those players became interested in the sport…

alot of respected nba and college coaches held clinics and camps working with youngsters overseas…

 I think the U.S. talent pool & skill set is Ubiquitous in that kid’s seem to specialize b/c they know it can get them to the NBA – it’s a logical progresssion when you consider it… First, kids stopped playing multiple sports, now within those sports kids stopped developing multiple skills… The Kids from overseas appear to have a more well rounded game heavy on basic fundamentals…. IMHO… And b/c there is now a deficit of those players who fit that swiss army knife skill set, teams find them now in Europe, Australia, South America & so on ……… Excellent topic though….

 I think the U.S. talent pool & skill set is Ubiquitous in that kid’s seem to specialize b/c they know it can get them to the NBA – it’s a logical progresssion when you consider it… First, kids stopped playing multiple sports, now within those sports kids stopped developing multiple skills… The Kids from overseas appear to have a more well rounded game heavy on basic fundamentals…. IMHO… And b/c there is now a deficit of those players who fit that swiss army knife skill set, teams find them now in Europe, Australia, South America & so on ……… Excellent topic though….