This topic contains 46 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar oc1234 9 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #59485
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    oc1234
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     Okay as a Celtic fan I feel obligated to apologize for my Marcus Smart hate. I’ve realized that Smart can become a very very good defender in the NBA. I’ve watched tape of him and I think a proper comparison for Smart is Derek Fisher. Like Fisher, Smart definitely is a starter who has shown the ability to be a good spot shooter, but has shown he isn’t a dynamic offensive option. Like Fisher he has shown he is a player that can make the right pass and will shut down the opposing point guard. He isn’t overally explosive, but can make athletic plays and hopefully Smart can develop his ability to get to the rim. Do I think he was worth the 6th overall pick?? No, but we can’t do anything about it now and hopefully we can put the right pieces around him to make a championship squad.

    Let’s hear what you guys think about my assessment. 

     

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  • #972656
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    Lotto Stud
    Participant

     I appreciate your empathy. Too many people are down on Smaht for no reason at all. He’s a rookie who chose to pass up the money early on and return to Oklahoma State to become a student of the game, all the while of not winning over anyone through his antics last season lingering into this one. I am pro Mahcus Smaht as an outsider. For stahters, he displays great character in an interview setting, which becomes the head-scratcher because this is the indicator, he knows right from wrong in a leadership role being thrown his way immediately.  

    The best thing going for him overall is his physical conditioning. Either one or two things can happen if his willingness to keep himself up declines. He can either become a liability on the defensive end from letting himself go because he doesn’t shoot the ball well to command the respect as a shooter, or he can end up on the D-League roster and phase out of the rotation completely with Isaiah Thomas and James Young on deck. 

     

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  • #972503
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    Lotto Stud
    Participant

     I appreciate your empathy. Too many people are down on Smaht for no reason at all. He’s a rookie who chose to pass up the money early on and return to Oklahoma State to become a student of the game, all the while of not winning over anyone through his antics last season lingering into this one. I am pro Mahcus Smaht as an outsider. For stahters, he displays great character in an interview setting, which becomes the head-scratcher because this is the indicator, he knows right from wrong in a leadership role being thrown his way immediately.  

    The best thing going for him overall is his physical conditioning. Either one or two things can happen if his willingness to keep himself up declines. He can either become a liability on the defensive end from letting himself go because he doesn’t shoot the ball well to command the respect as a shooter, or he can end up on the D-League roster and phase out of the rotation completely with Isaiah Thomas and James Young on deck. 

     

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  • #972658
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    Moon River
    Participant

    Is that your Boston accent with "Smaht" and "stahters" references?

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  • #972505
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    Moon River
    Participant

    Is that your Boston accent with "Smaht" and "stahters" references?

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  • #972674
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    JoeWolf1

     Post ASG he’s averaging 9.8 ppg 4.7 rpg 2.7 apg, and a very impressive 1.8 spg, while sporting an acceptable assist to turnover ratio for his role with the team.

    His biggest issue is jacking up too many three pointers. He hits them at a 33% clip, yet they account for over half of his overall shots. He should just work on getting into the lane more, and bulling weaker gaurds out of offensive rebounds until his long range game catches up to where he obviously wants it to be. 

    I really do think he’ll be a very good guard in the NBA. Not like a 20 ppg type guy, but a memeber of the All-Defensive team and someone who drops 13 or 14 ppg. Too early to give up on him, and say he was a poor pick at 6.

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  • #972521
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    JoeWolf1

     Post ASG he’s averaging 9.8 ppg 4.7 rpg 2.7 apg, and a very impressive 1.8 spg, while sporting an acceptable assist to turnover ratio for his role with the team.

    His biggest issue is jacking up too many three pointers. He hits them at a 33% clip, yet they account for over half of his overall shots. He should just work on getting into the lane more, and bulling weaker gaurds out of offensive rebounds until his long range game catches up to where he obviously wants it to be. 

    I really do think he’ll be a very good guard in the NBA. Not like a 20 ppg type guy, but a memeber of the All-Defensive team and someone who drops 13 or 14 ppg. Too early to give up on him, and say he was a poor pick at 6.

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    • #972678
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      mgreener_34
      Participant

       Good post, and I think it sums everything up for the most part. I think it’s worth mentioning though that Brad Stevens system is predicated off of three point shooting, and that’s why you see guys like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, Sullinger, and even Brandon Bass shoot threes when it’s obviously not in their best interest. 

      My only concern with Smart going forward would be his ability to get into the paint. He’s become more confident in this regaurd, and it’s shown since the All-Star break, as his FTA have gone from 1.6 to 2.6. 

      I don’t see him in the Derrek Fisher mold, but more of a George Hill type of player where he doesn’t blow you away statistically, but will do all the little things that matter and help a team win. I think his ceiling is also higher than both Fish and Hill’s, and think that in his prime he could be an effective 15/6/6 player who makes an all-defense team.

      Unlike a lot of players coming into the league, Smart has the body and the intangibles to be a great player, so it all comes down to how much he wants it. I look forward to watching his progression in green. 

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    • #972525
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      mgreener_34
      Participant

       Good post, and I think it sums everything up for the most part. I think it’s worth mentioning though that Brad Stevens system is predicated off of three point shooting, and that’s why you see guys like Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, Sullinger, and even Brandon Bass shoot threes when it’s obviously not in their best interest. 

      My only concern with Smart going forward would be his ability to get into the paint. He’s become more confident in this regaurd, and it’s shown since the All-Star break, as his FTA have gone from 1.6 to 2.6. 

      I don’t see him in the Derrek Fisher mold, but more of a George Hill type of player where he doesn’t blow you away statistically, but will do all the little things that matter and help a team win. I think his ceiling is also higher than both Fish and Hill’s, and think that in his prime he could be an effective 15/6/6 player who makes an all-defense team.

      Unlike a lot of players coming into the league, Smart has the body and the intangibles to be a great player, so it all comes down to how much he wants it. I look forward to watching his progression in green. 

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  • #972595
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    treytalkssports.com
    Participant

    Celtic fan here. Brad Stevens fan here. Danny Ainge fan here. 

    I like Smart a lot. He has shown the ability to play in an unselfish system, which is something that I was worried about due to his high usage rate at OKST. 

    It seems like Stevens completely tore down Smart’s offensive game and is builing it back up slowly. Once every few games, they run a postup play for Smart. Once a game, he makes a great offensive move like splitting a pick or beating a guy to the rim. The weird problem has been his finishing. He always seems to struggle with his footwork around the hoop. He either takes a floater too far out because of his footing, or goes off the wrong foot and doesn’t get enough lift. He lost almost complete confidence in his driving ability through this season. 

    That’s why I think that the summer leage will give a pretty clear indication of what kind of player he will develop into. I would guess that in the 1-2 month haitus he has, Ainge and Stevens will be working with him on his footwork and watching tape of Tony Parker and Chris Paul. I then expect Smart to go into the Summer League with a huge usage rate and a long leash (ala Kentavious Caldwell-Pope last year). He may not be perfect right away, but I want to see him aggressively going to the hoop, finishing some and-ones, and floating some 12 foot shots over bigs. His shooting percentage might be terrible, but he needs to figure this out, and the Summer League is the place to do that. 

    In the end, I stick by my Wesley Matthews comparison. I think Smart will be a better defender than Matthews, but not as efficient of a scorer. At his best, he will be shooting a lot of threes in Stevens system (4-6 a game) at a good clip (35-38%), but he will also put pressure on defenses through his driving and post up abilities–that should put his overall shooting percentage somewhere from 42-44%. 14-15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg would be my ideal realistic stat-line. 

    Which leads me to my next point: what kind of player should the Celtics pair with Smart in the backcourt? Answer: a scoring-minded guard like Lillard. Ideally, Smart as a two-guard could run some of the offense with the pg off the ball, much like Matthews and Lillard in Portland. This gives Smart some usage and keeps him engaged, but it also means that the offense does not rely too heavily on him. 

    There aren’t any Lillards available in the draft or free agency, but did you know that Isaiah Thomas is right next to Damian Lillard in offensive real plus-minus stat this season? In fact, they were nearly the same in orpm, drpm, and rpm last season. Some advanced stats comparison tools have Damian Lillard’s current season comparing most closely with 2014 Isaiah Thomas. 

    Now, I’m not saying that Isaiah Thomas is the same player or as good as Damian Lillard, but I do think he brings 80-90% of Lillard’s production on a GREAT contract. I still think Thomas is an ideal sixth man, but if Smart can up his offense a bit, the Thomas/Smart backcourt could be deadly, especially with Olynyk and Sully stretching the floor with their shooting. 

    This, however, leads me to ask: who is the ideal type of player to start with Smart and play significant minutes with Thomas. My answer: a player who can handle the ball (so Smart can still play some off ball), shoot outside, and hold their own on defense. 

    Turner has done two of those things on a GREAT contract. I would love to keep him around at the same level, but I want another guy who can shoot. 

    In this draft, I like RJ Hunter and Mario Hezonja. Both guys can shoot, handle the ball some, and defend their position. I like RJ Hunter a bit more and I think he will be available when we pick, but I would take either one. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #972637
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      Lotto Stud
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      Great follow-up on the Thomas feed. 

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    • #972791
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      Great follow-up on the Thomas feed. 

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    • #972643
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      arambone2

       I agree that Thomas compares favorably with Damian Lillard, and a Thomas/Smart starting backcourt could work well. Especially with KO as stretch 5, like you said. Having IT and/or KO in the starting lineup would also make it easier to start Jae Crowder at SF, and Crowder would help compensate for IT and KO’s less than ideal defense.

      draft-wise and free agency-wise, I’ve already mentioned Kaminsky and Hollis-Jefferson a couple times, but there are other good fits as well. A guy like Montrezl Harrell might be a better fit as starting 4 than Jared Sullinger in a starting lineup of IT/Smart/Crowder/?/KOlynyk. A monster rebounder and defender next to KO, who could basically play an inside/center role on offense.

      There’s also probably another talented combo-guard like Clarkson who will drop in the draft, and we could use another talented combo guard, and somebody will hopefully be there at pick 34-35.

       

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    • #972797
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      arambone2

       I agree that Thomas compares favorably with Damian Lillard, and a Thomas/Smart starting backcourt could work well. Especially with KO as stretch 5, like you said. Having IT and/or KO in the starting lineup would also make it easier to start Jae Crowder at SF, and Crowder would help compensate for IT and KO’s less than ideal defense.

      draft-wise and free agency-wise, I’ve already mentioned Kaminsky and Hollis-Jefferson a couple times, but there are other good fits as well. A guy like Montrezl Harrell might be a better fit as starting 4 than Jared Sullinger in a starting lineup of IT/Smart/Crowder/?/KOlynyk. A monster rebounder and defender next to KO, who could basically play an inside/center role on offense.

      There’s also probably another talented combo-guard like Clarkson who will drop in the draft, and we could use another talented combo guard, and somebody will hopefully be there at pick 34-35.

       

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  • #972749
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    treytalkssports.com
    Participant

    Celtic fan here. Brad Stevens fan here. Danny Ainge fan here. 

    I like Smart a lot. He has shown the ability to play in an unselfish system, which is something that I was worried about due to his high usage rate at OKST. 

    It seems like Stevens completely tore down Smart’s offensive game and is builing it back up slowly. Once every few games, they run a postup play for Smart. Once a game, he makes a great offensive move like splitting a pick or beating a guy to the rim. The weird problem has been his finishing. He always seems to struggle with his footwork around the hoop. He either takes a floater too far out because of his footing, or goes off the wrong foot and doesn’t get enough lift. He lost almost complete confidence in his driving ability through this season. 

    That’s why I think that the summer leage will give a pretty clear indication of what kind of player he will develop into. I would guess that in the 1-2 month haitus he has, Ainge and Stevens will be working with him on his footwork and watching tape of Tony Parker and Chris Paul. I then expect Smart to go into the Summer League with a huge usage rate and a long leash (ala Kentavious Caldwell-Pope last year). He may not be perfect right away, but I want to see him aggressively going to the hoop, finishing some and-ones, and floating some 12 foot shots over bigs. His shooting percentage might be terrible, but he needs to figure this out, and the Summer League is the place to do that. 

    In the end, I stick by my Wesley Matthews comparison. I think Smart will be a better defender than Matthews, but not as efficient of a scorer. At his best, he will be shooting a lot of threes in Stevens system (4-6 a game) at a good clip (35-38%), but he will also put pressure on defenses through his driving and post up abilities–that should put his overall shooting percentage somewhere from 42-44%. 14-15 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg would be my ideal realistic stat-line. 

    Which leads me to my next point: what kind of player should the Celtics pair with Smart in the backcourt? Answer: a scoring-minded guard like Lillard. Ideally, Smart as a two-guard could run some of the offense with the pg off the ball, much like Matthews and Lillard in Portland. This gives Smart some usage and keeps him engaged, but it also means that the offense does not rely too heavily on him. 

    There aren’t any Lillards available in the draft or free agency, but did you know that Isaiah Thomas is right next to Damian Lillard in offensive real plus-minus stat this season? In fact, they were nearly the same in orpm, drpm, and rpm last season. Some advanced stats comparison tools have Damian Lillard’s current season comparing most closely with 2014 Isaiah Thomas. 

    Now, I’m not saying that Isaiah Thomas is the same player or as good as Damian Lillard, but I do think he brings 80-90% of Lillard’s production on a GREAT contract. I still think Thomas is an ideal sixth man, but if Smart can up his offense a bit, the Thomas/Smart backcourt could be deadly, especially with Olynyk and Sully stretching the floor with their shooting. 

    This, however, leads me to ask: who is the ideal type of player to start with Smart and play significant minutes with Thomas. My answer: a player who can handle the ball (so Smart can still play some off ball), shoot outside, and hold their own on defense. 

    Turner has done two of those things on a GREAT contract. I would love to keep him around at the same level, but I want another guy who can shoot. 

    In this draft, I like RJ Hunter and Mario Hezonja. Both guys can shoot, handle the ball some, and defend their position. I like RJ Hunter a bit more and I think he will be available when we pick, but I would take either one. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #972599
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    arambone2

     Leadership is a talent that the vast majority of fans simply don’t understand or appreciate, especially in the era of fantasy basketball.

    Leadership doesn’t easily fit into narrow statistical categories, and it’s not going to help you win your fantasy basketball league. So it’s easy to dismiss out of hand, and believe that a Rondo-Cousins-Melo lineup = championship contender, and assume there’s plenty of leadership in those 3, and that leadership is not that important anyway.

    A majority of Celtics fans seem to under-appreciate Marcus Smart as much or more than the original poster here. These are the same chuckleheads that thought Rondo was a good leader, and made everybody around him better. That was a bogus belief, and we’ve seen Rondo fully exposed now in Dallas.

    The same chucklehead Celtics fans that under-appreciate Smart are the same people who wrote this season off as another tank season, especially after their man-crush Rondo and Jeff Green were traded away.

    They never saw this playoff run coming, and they still don’t even know how it happened. So they cling to fantasy basketball robotic thinking, and regret drafting Marcus Smart, our starting point guard who has led this improbable playoff drive.

    Fantasy basketball and NBA2k have turned most fans’ brains into silly puddy, as did LeBron’s success in Miami. All they know is 3 Stars = Contender, because LeBron. As if a transcendent one-of-a-kind GOAT like LeBron is a solid foundation to build a generic formula on, and apply it to inferior "stars".

    Smart’s Celtics teammates have been praising his leadership ability since day 1, even while Rondo was still on the roster and holding the franchise hostage, pouting after losses that he did nothing to prevent, choking on last possessions of the game, and playing fake defense at best, which he even admitted to after the trade to Dallas.

    So it’s no wonder most Celtics fans and general NBA fans still diss Marcus Smart left and right, when they even notice him. Most fans, Celtics and otherwise, thought that Rondo was a solid leader who makes his teammates better. His nut-riders even insisted he played solid defense the past 3 years, which Rondo admitted was absolutely NOT the case.

    So now the Celtics have a natural leader, a REAL leader, who actually WORKS his tail off and leads by example. And not once a week, or just when the Celtics are on national TV or playing in MSG, but EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Most Celtics fans can’t appreciate that, because they falsely assumed that Rondo was already doing that, ignoring everything their eyes should have told them.

    Not only does Smart lead by example by playing balls out every minute of every game and practice, but he has a great confidence that Rondo could only fake. Unlike Rondo, Smart actually has huge balls and confidence, which is one sign of a great leader. From Day 1 Smart has been completely fearless shooting the ball, and while the results have been somewhat mixed, Smart has been extremely clutch in the 4th quarter every game.

    Instead of losing almost every close game as we did with Rondo, the Celtics are suddenly winning most close games, often in dramatic fashion. The entire team feeds off Smart’s confidence and CLUTCH play, and outperform other teams when it counts, in the 4th quarter. 

    Smart makes every other player on the Celtics better, whether he’s on or off the court. He does it by working extremely hard/leading by example, by playing with great confidence and poise, and by playing truly selflessly, unlike Rondo who only passed the ball when an assist was likely to result. 

    I’m not saying Smart deserves all the credit for this playoff run, but he has received precious little of the credit. Actually, the Celtics in general haven’t been given much credit for this improbable run, even by Celtics fans.

    The Celtics are over-achieving, playing extremely hard and consistently hard, playing for each other, and playing with great confidence in the Fourth Quarter. Smart doesn’t deserve all of the credit for this, but he deserves much more than he’s getting. He stepped into Rondo’s shoes and almost immediately made fans forget about Rondo, and got the team to play much better than they did with Rondo in the same role as starting point guard/team leader.

    So these lame comparisons to D Fisher or even Wes Matthews are misguided, and I might never be able to prove with existing statistics that Smart is in another category altogether. All I’ll be able to point to is Smart’s teams consistently outperforming all expectations, over and over and over. 

    In this age of Fantasy basketball and NBA2K, a vocal majority of fans will always place more value on the Al Jeffersons or Monta Ellis’s of the league than unassuming impact that Marcus Smart brings every. single. night.

    If Smart merely ends up as a 15 point, 7 assist player, it would make him one of the top players in the league.

    Smart is already able to dominate most games defensively, and he’s already one of the better leaders in the league. Every single teammate of Marcus Smart is playing better defense, and with much more consistency, than anybody expected. Brad Stevens deserves a lot of credit, but so does Marcus Smart. He is already the team’s best defender, and is the closest thing they have to an enforcer. Not bad for a rookie point guard with middling statistics. 

    Smart is a defensive phenom, and gives this rag-tag roster of misfits and cast-offs more confidence in their abilities than they would be exhibiting in most other situations on other rosters.

    So the fact is that Smart could be one of the truly most valuable players in the league in a couple years while averaging a mere 15 points per game, because of his defensive domination and his inspiring leadership which makes everybody else better. 

    But it’s also entirely possible, and I would argue probable, that Smart ends up averaging closer to 20 ppg than 14-15. Smart’s limited impact driving to the rim is largely a result of Smart still getting comfortable in the NBA, and also wanting to defer to teammates, which is part of what makes him such a good leader as a rookie. As soon as Smart realizes that the team is better with Smart driving to the rim at every opportunity, he will do it and excel at it. It just might not happen until next year, especially with IT4 on the team.

    Smart is only going to get better finishing around the basket on drives, better with his floater, and especially better scoring from the post. This point guard obviously never needed to develop advanced post moves yet, but it is coming, and it will be a major weapon for him. Smart is already arguably the strongest guard in the league, and not just point guards. I’m talking all guards, if you consider Joe Johnson a small forward now.

    Smart was the most dominant player in college last year, because he dominated on both sides of the ball. He can already dominate on one side of the ball (defense), and he’s already shooting much better from deep than anybody thought he could. He’s already an average 3 point shooter, and he’s above average from deep if you don’t count the first month of his rookie year.

    Smart can be a top 10 player while averaging 15 ppg, even if he never gets proper credit. All Star and MVP voters don’t factor in how much a player makes his teammates better, so he’ll float under the radar while stat padders get more shine.

    But if Smart can get up to an efficient 18-20 ppg, which he easily can, his REAL value could be top 5 in the NBA at some point in the future. Not that anybody will notice.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #972641
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      Lotto Stud
      Participant

      "A majority of Celtics fans seem to under-appreciate Marcus Smart as much or more than the original poster here. These are the same chuckleheads that thought Rondo was a good leader, and made everybody around him better. That was a bogus belief, and we’ve seen Rondo fully exposed now in Dallas."

      "The same chucklehead Celtics fans that under-appreciate Smart are the same people who wrote this season off as another tank season, especially after their man-crush Rondo and Jeff Green were traded away."

      "They never saw this playoff run coming, and they still don’t even know how it happened. So they cling to fantasy basketball robotic thinking, and regret drafting Marcus Smart, our starting point guard who has led this improbable playoff drive."

      I can get down with your whole breakdown. Not one, Dante Exum mention throughout the entire analysis. You are the Real MVP arambone2!

       

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    • #972795
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      Lotto Stud
      Participant

      "A majority of Celtics fans seem to under-appreciate Marcus Smart as much or more than the original poster here. These are the same chuckleheads that thought Rondo was a good leader, and made everybody around him better. That was a bogus belief, and we’ve seen Rondo fully exposed now in Dallas."

      "The same chucklehead Celtics fans that under-appreciate Smart are the same people who wrote this season off as another tank season, especially after their man-crush Rondo and Jeff Green were traded away."

      "They never saw this playoff run coming, and they still don’t even know how it happened. So they cling to fantasy basketball robotic thinking, and regret drafting Marcus Smart, our starting point guard who has led this improbable playoff drive."

      I can get down with your whole breakdown. Not one, Dante Exum mention throughout the entire analysis. You are the Real MVP arambone2!

       

      0
  • #972753
    AvatarAvatar
    arambone2

     Leadership is a talent that the vast majority of fans simply don’t understand or appreciate, especially in the era of fantasy basketball.

    Leadership doesn’t easily fit into narrow statistical categories, and it’s not going to help you win your fantasy basketball league. So it’s easy to dismiss out of hand, and believe that a Rondo-Cousins-Melo lineup = championship contender, and assume there’s plenty of leadership in those 3, and that leadership is not that important anyway.

    A majority of Celtics fans seem to under-appreciate Marcus Smart as much or more than the original poster here. These are the same chuckleheads that thought Rondo was a good leader, and made everybody around him better. That was a bogus belief, and we’ve seen Rondo fully exposed now in Dallas.

    The same chucklehead Celtics fans that under-appreciate Smart are the same people who wrote this season off as another tank season, especially after their man-crush Rondo and Jeff Green were traded away.

    They never saw this playoff run coming, and they still don’t even know how it happened. So they cling to fantasy basketball robotic thinking, and regret drafting Marcus Smart, our starting point guard who has led this improbable playoff drive.

    Fantasy basketball and NBA2k have turned most fans’ brains into silly puddy, as did LeBron’s success in Miami. All they know is 3 Stars = Contender, because LeBron. As if a transcendent one-of-a-kind GOAT like LeBron is a solid foundation to build a generic formula on, and apply it to inferior "stars".

    Smart’s Celtics teammates have been praising his leadership ability since day 1, even while Rondo was still on the roster and holding the franchise hostage, pouting after losses that he did nothing to prevent, choking on last possessions of the game, and playing fake defense at best, which he even admitted to after the trade to Dallas.

    So it’s no wonder most Celtics fans and general NBA fans still diss Marcus Smart left and right, when they even notice him. Most fans, Celtics and otherwise, thought that Rondo was a solid leader who makes his teammates better. His nut-riders even insisted he played solid defense the past 3 years, which Rondo admitted was absolutely NOT the case.

    So now the Celtics have a natural leader, a REAL leader, who actually WORKS his tail off and leads by example. And not once a week, or just when the Celtics are on national TV or playing in MSG, but EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Most Celtics fans can’t appreciate that, because they falsely assumed that Rondo was already doing that, ignoring everything their eyes should have told them.

    Not only does Smart lead by example by playing balls out every minute of every game and practice, but he has a great confidence that Rondo could only fake. Unlike Rondo, Smart actually has huge balls and confidence, which is one sign of a great leader. From Day 1 Smart has been completely fearless shooting the ball, and while the results have been somewhat mixed, Smart has been extremely clutch in the 4th quarter every game.

    Instead of losing almost every close game as we did with Rondo, the Celtics are suddenly winning most close games, often in dramatic fashion. The entire team feeds off Smart’s confidence and CLUTCH play, and outperform other teams when it counts, in the 4th quarter. 

    Smart makes every other player on the Celtics better, whether he’s on or off the court. He does it by working extremely hard/leading by example, by playing with great confidence and poise, and by playing truly selflessly, unlike Rondo who only passed the ball when an assist was likely to result. 

    I’m not saying Smart deserves all the credit for this playoff run, but he has received precious little of the credit. Actually, the Celtics in general haven’t been given much credit for this improbable run, even by Celtics fans.

    The Celtics are over-achieving, playing extremely hard and consistently hard, playing for each other, and playing with great confidence in the Fourth Quarter. Smart doesn’t deserve all of the credit for this, but he deserves much more than he’s getting. He stepped into Rondo’s shoes and almost immediately made fans forget about Rondo, and got the team to play much better than they did with Rondo in the same role as starting point guard/team leader.

    So these lame comparisons to D Fisher or even Wes Matthews are misguided, and I might never be able to prove with existing statistics that Smart is in another category altogether. All I’ll be able to point to is Smart’s teams consistently outperforming all expectations, over and over and over. 

    In this age of Fantasy basketball and NBA2K, a vocal majority of fans will always place more value on the Al Jeffersons or Monta Ellis’s of the league than unassuming impact that Marcus Smart brings every. single. night.

    If Smart merely ends up as a 15 point, 7 assist player, it would make him one of the top players in the league.

    Smart is already able to dominate most games defensively, and he’s already one of the better leaders in the league. Every single teammate of Marcus Smart is playing better defense, and with much more consistency, than anybody expected. Brad Stevens deserves a lot of credit, but so does Marcus Smart. He is already the team’s best defender, and is the closest thing they have to an enforcer. Not bad for a rookie point guard with middling statistics. 

    Smart is a defensive phenom, and gives this rag-tag roster of misfits and cast-offs more confidence in their abilities than they would be exhibiting in most other situations on other rosters.

    So the fact is that Smart could be one of the truly most valuable players in the league in a couple years while averaging a mere 15 points per game, because of his defensive domination and his inspiring leadership which makes everybody else better. 

    But it’s also entirely possible, and I would argue probable, that Smart ends up averaging closer to 20 ppg than 14-15. Smart’s limited impact driving to the rim is largely a result of Smart still getting comfortable in the NBA, and also wanting to defer to teammates, which is part of what makes him such a good leader as a rookie. As soon as Smart realizes that the team is better with Smart driving to the rim at every opportunity, he will do it and excel at it. It just might not happen until next year, especially with IT4 on the team.

    Smart is only going to get better finishing around the basket on drives, better with his floater, and especially better scoring from the post. This point guard obviously never needed to develop advanced post moves yet, but it is coming, and it will be a major weapon for him. Smart is already arguably the strongest guard in the league, and not just point guards. I’m talking all guards, if you consider Joe Johnson a small forward now.

    Smart was the most dominant player in college last year, because he dominated on both sides of the ball. He can already dominate on one side of the ball (defense), and he’s already shooting much better from deep than anybody thought he could. He’s already an average 3 point shooter, and he’s above average from deep if you don’t count the first month of his rookie year.

    Smart can be a top 10 player while averaging 15 ppg, even if he never gets proper credit. All Star and MVP voters don’t factor in how much a player makes his teammates better, so he’ll float under the radar while stat padders get more shine.

    But if Smart can get up to an efficient 18-20 ppg, which he easily can, his REAL value could be top 5 in the NBA at some point in the future. Not that anybody will notice.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #972605
    AvatarAvatar
    arambone2

    It went almost completely unnoticed, but Smart went toe-to-toe with Russell Westbrook last week, and arguably outplayed him, on Westbrook’s home court.

    Most Celtics fans are so dumb that the closest thing Smart got to a compliment after the game was, "if Smart can play like this every night than he can be our starting point guard."

    As if 25 points on 14 shots, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks was merely adequate. As if it wasn’t a superstar/mvp candidate caliber performance.

    My God. It was an epic performance that almost nobody noticed or appreciated, much less suggested that it might be a glimpse of what Smart could do regularly in a year or two or three. Nope, it was merely adequate for a starting point guard.

    When I say that Smart arguably outplayed Westbrook, let me explain:

    Smart and the Celtics held Westbrook to 8-26 shooting (30.8%), while Smart shot 8-14 with SEVEN threes on Westbrook and OKC. Westbrook outscored Smart 35-25, but 6-8 of those points came on free throws at the end of the game when Westbrook was intentionally fouled on the inbound pass. Smart was plus 11 in the game, while Westbrook was plus 8. 

    I’m not saying Smart clearly outplayed Westbrook, but he absolutely went toe-to-toe with him, and showed he is capable of dominating a game on both sides of the court in the same game. It’s only a matter of time before this becomes more than an occasional occurance, and the fact that Smart is showing this as a ROOKIE is extremely impressive and noteworthy. Funny how nobody noticed…

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201503180OKC.html

     

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    • #972615
      AvatarAvatar
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant

      One of Olynyk’s blocks was a two-handed block on Westbrook, but guess how it happened? 

      Westbrook crossed Smart up and drove down the right lane to the basket, but Smart slid his feet and stayed with Westbrook–the fastest player in the league. Smart bodied him up, giving Olynyk time to rotate. As Westbrook took his final leap to shoot, Smart’s physiciality kept him from collecting himself completely, which meant that Westbrook did not get enough lift on his shot going to the rim. Olynyk met him around the block, got vertical, and blocked Westbrook with two hands. 

      Olynyk gets the block and he made a good play, but Smart made that possible. 

      This is the type of thing that makes him a great teammate, especially as a helps to cover up some of our weakness inside. 

       

       

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      • #972627
        AvatarAvatar
        arambone2

        Olynyk is another guy who gets hated on with extreme prejudice. Much moreso than Smart.

        Most fans are down to giving Olynyk "one last chance", or "one more season" before they throw him out the door. These are the same people who HATED the Olynyk draft pick, and find every reason to bash him, at every opportunity. 

        If Olynyk was black and had tatoos on his neck, they wouldn’t cringe every time Olynyk gets scored on inside. They would even notice that Olynyk made significant gains in his strength and especially his athleticism in the offseason. They would notice that Olynyk is basically an above-average athlete at the center position now, complete with significantly better hops that would stand out at the Combine. 

        Even when Olynyk has a supposedly horrible game, you look at the +/- number and Olynyk is almost always in the plus. Even in his worst games, he’s like minus two or minus four. Cry me a river.

        If KO merely averages 5 points, 2 assists, and 6 rebounds, but leads the team in plus/minus, then chances are he’s a keeper to say the least. But KO has much more potential than that, obviously, even though he’ll always get underrated and hated on for not looking like a Grand Theft Auto character.

         

         

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        • #972629
          AvatarAvatar
          treytalkssports.com
          Participant

          So true. The three things that I want to see improvement from KO are:

           1. Offensive aggression: I know his game is pass-oriented and unselfish, but I would rather see him focus on scoring a bit more. 

          2. Drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line. 

          3. Not fouling: this is pretty typically for a young big man. He has even improved since he came back from injury.

          I have been active on Celticsblog advocating for Kelly Olynyk. Young bigs take time to develop anticipation for defensive rotation and verticality on a shot challenge. Olynyk can get there. I also like Zeller and Sully. I would rather opt for continuity, while possibly adding a big in the draft if the right guy is there. 

          However, if Love was available, I would take him. Imagine running Olynyk and Love on offense at the 4-5. If Brad Stevens was able to make us a respectable defensive team with Love and Olynyk as our starting bigs, then he deserves the Coach of the Year award. 

           

            

           

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          • #972639
            AvatarAvatar
            arambone2

            drafting Kaminsky seems like the right move, as does drafting Hollis-Jefferson. 

            Hollis-Jefferson is being slept on I think because he was behind Aaron Gordon last year and Johnson this year, both top 5 picks. In addition to being an elite and versatile defender, Hollis-Jefferson is great at driving to the hoop and drawing fouls. With guys like KO and Kaminsky spreading the floor, Hollis-Jefferson would really be able to shine. 

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            • #972645
              AvatarAvatar
              treytalkssports.com
              Participant

              I would be happy with Kaminsky, but I think he is going to struggle in the NBA more than people realize. Hopefully he will adjust. 

              I don’t think his post game will translate super well into the NBA. Against NBA size and athleticism, I think he may struggle. However, this is one reason why I hope to see a Kentucky Wisconsin matchup in the final four. This Arizona Wisconsin matchup may show us something too. 

              His shooting should translate, but I’m not sure his rim protection or rebounding will. Maybe a weight-lifting program would help, but his shoulders don’t seem wide and his chest doesn’t seem strong. 

              I basically see him as a thinner Spencer Hawes. Good rotation big who can stretch the floor, but probably not a starter.

              For these reasons, I am hoping for a wing with our first first round pick and maybe Poelti with our second first round pick. 

               

               

               

               

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            • #972799
              AvatarAvatar
              treytalkssports.com
              Participant

              I would be happy with Kaminsky, but I think he is going to struggle in the NBA more than people realize. Hopefully he will adjust. 

              I don’t think his post game will translate super well into the NBA. Against NBA size and athleticism, I think he may struggle. However, this is one reason why I hope to see a Kentucky Wisconsin matchup in the final four. This Arizona Wisconsin matchup may show us something too. 

              His shooting should translate, but I’m not sure his rim protection or rebounding will. Maybe a weight-lifting program would help, but his shoulders don’t seem wide and his chest doesn’t seem strong. 

              I basically see him as a thinner Spencer Hawes. Good rotation big who can stretch the floor, but probably not a starter.

              For these reasons, I am hoping for a wing with our first first round pick and maybe Poelti with our second first round pick. 

               

               

               

               

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          • #972793
            AvatarAvatar
            arambone2

            drafting Kaminsky seems like the right move, as does drafting Hollis-Jefferson. 

            Hollis-Jefferson is being slept on I think because he was behind Aaron Gordon last year and Johnson this year, both top 5 picks. In addition to being an elite and versatile defender, Hollis-Jefferson is great at driving to the hoop and drawing fouls. With guys like KO and Kaminsky spreading the floor, Hollis-Jefferson would really be able to shine. 

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          • #972827
            AvatarAvatar
            oc1234
            Participant

             I agree about Olynyk and in no way have I given up on the versatile Canadian. The problem I think with Olynyk is he’s playing out of position. Kelly’s strengths are his shooting ability, his ability to rebound, his ability to handle the ball, his passing ability, and his quickness as a big man and I think all of these and his size would become excentuated at the 4 position. Olynyk has also shown that he can become a good defender, but only really struggles because of his length when playing against centers. If we moved Olynyk to the 4 and paired him up with an athletic, defensive minded center like Cauley-Stein, Poeltl, and Deandre Jordan then our frontcourt would become dangerous. On defense Olynyk has the ability to contain most 4’s with his size and physicality alone and with a shot blocking center on the help side our defense would become very good. On offense we could work Olynyk off the pick and pop and with his ability to get into the paint as a 7 footer and either get it to his athletic center to finish around the rim, finish himself, or kick it out to a 3 point shooters would make our offense a lot more potent. With Kelly’s face up game I do think that we should pair him up with a center with the ability to score on the block and with his back to the basket. That’s why I think based on the prospects available in this draft I think we should pair Olynyk up with Poeltl because he has shown a lot of potential on the block and has the size, length, athleticism, and toughness to play the center position in the NBA. 

            Here’s what I think the Celtics should do in the draft:

            11-15:

            C Jakob Poeltl

            and

            Trade up to grab Sam Dekker because he is a great fit with the Celtics and I think he has the ability to start right off the bat. 

            PG: Marcus Smart

            SG: Avery Bradley

            SF: Sam Dekker

            PF: Kelly Olynyk

            C: Jakob Poeltl

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

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          • #972673
            AvatarAvatar
            oc1234
            Participant

             I agree about Olynyk and in no way have I given up on the versatile Canadian. The problem I think with Olynyk is he’s playing out of position. Kelly’s strengths are his shooting ability, his ability to rebound, his ability to handle the ball, his passing ability, and his quickness as a big man and I think all of these and his size would become excentuated at the 4 position. Olynyk has also shown that he can become a good defender, but only really struggles because of his length when playing against centers. If we moved Olynyk to the 4 and paired him up with an athletic, defensive minded center like Cauley-Stein, Poeltl, and Deandre Jordan then our frontcourt would become dangerous. On defense Olynyk has the ability to contain most 4’s with his size and physicality alone and with a shot blocking center on the help side our defense would become very good. On offense we could work Olynyk off the pick and pop and with his ability to get into the paint as a 7 footer and either get it to his athletic center to finish around the rim, finish himself, or kick it out to a 3 point shooters would make our offense a lot more potent. With Kelly’s face up game I do think that we should pair him up with a center with the ability to score on the block and with his back to the basket. That’s why I think based on the prospects available in this draft I think we should pair Olynyk up with Poeltl because he has shown a lot of potential on the block and has the size, length, athleticism, and toughness to play the center position in the NBA. 

            Here’s what I think the Celtics should do in the draft:

            11-15:

            C Jakob Poeltl

            and

            Trade up to grab Sam Dekker because he is a great fit with the Celtics and I think he has the ability to start right off the bat. 

            PG: Marcus Smart

            SG: Avery Bradley

            SF: Sam Dekker

            PF: Kelly Olynyk

            C: Jakob Poeltl

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

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        • #972783
          AvatarAvatar
          treytalkssports.com
          Participant

          So true. The three things that I want to see improvement from KO are:

           1. Offensive aggression: I know his game is pass-oriented and unselfish, but I would rather see him focus on scoring a bit more. 

          2. Drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line. 

          3. Not fouling: this is pretty typically for a young big man. He has even improved since he came back from injury.

          I have been active on Celticsblog advocating for Kelly Olynyk. Young bigs take time to develop anticipation for defensive rotation and verticality on a shot challenge. Olynyk can get there. I also like Zeller and Sully. I would rather opt for continuity, while possibly adding a big in the draft if the right guy is there. 

          However, if Love was available, I would take him. Imagine running Olynyk and Love on offense at the 4-5. If Brad Stevens was able to make us a respectable defensive team with Love and Olynyk as our starting bigs, then he deserves the Coach of the Year award. 

           

            

           

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      • #972781
        AvatarAvatar
        arambone2

        Olynyk is another guy who gets hated on with extreme prejudice. Much moreso than Smart.

        Most fans are down to giving Olynyk "one last chance", or "one more season" before they throw him out the door. These are the same people who HATED the Olynyk draft pick, and find every reason to bash him, at every opportunity. 

        If Olynyk was black and had tatoos on his neck, they wouldn’t cringe every time Olynyk gets scored on inside. They would even notice that Olynyk made significant gains in his strength and especially his athleticism in the offseason. They would notice that Olynyk is basically an above-average athlete at the center position now, complete with significantly better hops that would stand out at the Combine. 

        Even when Olynyk has a supposedly horrible game, you look at the +/- number and Olynyk is almost always in the plus. Even in his worst games, he’s like minus two or minus four. Cry me a river.

        If KO merely averages 5 points, 2 assists, and 6 rebounds, but leads the team in plus/minus, then chances are he’s a keeper to say the least. But KO has much more potential than that, obviously, even though he’ll always get underrated and hated on for not looking like a Grand Theft Auto character.

         

         

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    • #972769
      AvatarAvatar
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant

      One of Olynyk’s blocks was a two-handed block on Westbrook, but guess how it happened? 

      Westbrook crossed Smart up and drove down the right lane to the basket, but Smart slid his feet and stayed with Westbrook–the fastest player in the league. Smart bodied him up, giving Olynyk time to rotate. As Westbrook took his final leap to shoot, Smart’s physiciality kept him from collecting himself completely, which meant that Westbrook did not get enough lift on his shot going to the rim. Olynyk met him around the block, got vertical, and blocked Westbrook with two hands. 

      Olynyk gets the block and he made a good play, but Smart made that possible. 

      This is the type of thing that makes him a great teammate, especially as a helps to cover up some of our weakness inside. 

       

       

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  • #972759
    AvatarAvatar
    arambone2

    It went almost completely unnoticed, but Smart went toe-to-toe with Russell Westbrook last week, and arguably outplayed him, on Westbrook’s home court.

    Most Celtics fans are so dumb that the closest thing Smart got to a compliment after the game was, "if Smart can play like this every night than he can be our starting point guard."

    As if 25 points on 14 shots, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks was merely adequate. As if it wasn’t a superstar/mvp candidate caliber performance.

    My God. It was an epic performance that almost nobody noticed or appreciated, much less suggested that it might be a glimpse of what Smart could do regularly in a year or two or three. Nope, it was merely adequate for a starting point guard.

    When I say that Smart arguably outplayed Westbrook, let me explain:

    Smart and the Celtics held Westbrook to 8-26 shooting (30.8%), while Smart shot 8-14 with SEVEN threes on Westbrook and OKC. Westbrook outscored Smart 35-25, but 6-8 of those points came on free throws at the end of the game when Westbrook was intentionally fouled on the inbound pass. Smart was plus 11 in the game, while Westbrook was plus 8. 

    I’m not saying Smart clearly outplayed Westbrook, but he absolutely went toe-to-toe with him, and showed he is capable of dominating a game on both sides of the court in the same game. It’s only a matter of time before this becomes more than an occasional occurance, and the fact that Smart is showing this as a ROOKIE is extremely impressive and noteworthy. Funny how nobody noticed…

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201503180OKC.html

     

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  • #972607
    AvatarAvatar
    treytalkssports.com
    Participant

    +1 Great analysis

    Just to clarity …

    My comparison to Wes Matthews was not an insult. I think Matthews is one of the most underrated players in the league. He plays both ways with good efficiency. He has been a bulldog on defense (although he has become a little inconsistent on that side of the court this last year) and the fact that I think Smart can be better on defense than him is a great compliment. He makes clutch shots when his team needs him to. He is a great teammate, fiery competitor, and an intimidating matchup.
    For the same reason that Draymond Green is considered a Max Player, defensive MVP candidate, great teammate, and the cog that makes the Warriors go, I think Marcus Smart could be a Max Player, defensive MVP candidate, and the cog that makes the Celtics go.

    The devil is in the details. The way Smart dips his shoulders under screens to stay with a ball-handler, the way Smart makes the extra pass, the way he tips passes, and the way he boxes out big men so that his teammate can get a rebound, all of that is what makes Smart special.

    He is not just an interesting prospect to me as a Celtics fan. I am doubling down on him to be a (the?) key component in our present and future success.

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    • #972619
      AvatarAvatar
      arambone2

      Yup, sounds like we’re very much in agreement.

      And it’s interesting to think about how much better we might be if we kept Tayshaun Prince, Brandon Wright, and even Jameer Nelson as 3rd string point guard.

      The Celtics don’t need a superstar (or two) or a top 5 draft pick to make a big leap. They can already go toe-to-toe with most every team in the league, even if they don’t always quite get over the hump.

      A little more help, along with continued growth, and this team could be a contender of the underdog variety next year.

      I wouldn’t mind a Kaminsky/Hollis-Jefferson/big center with our first three draft picks.

       

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    • #972773
      AvatarAvatar
      arambone2

      Yup, sounds like we’re very much in agreement.

      And it’s interesting to think about how much better we might be if we kept Tayshaun Prince, Brandon Wright, and even Jameer Nelson as 3rd string point guard.

      The Celtics don’t need a superstar (or two) or a top 5 draft pick to make a big leap. They can already go toe-to-toe with most every team in the league, even if they don’t always quite get over the hump.

      A little more help, along with continued growth, and this team could be a contender of the underdog variety next year.

      I wouldn’t mind a Kaminsky/Hollis-Jefferson/big center with our first three draft picks.

       

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  • #972761
    AvatarAvatar
    treytalkssports.com
    Participant

    +1 Great analysis

    Just to clarity …

    My comparison to Wes Matthews was not an insult. I think Matthews is one of the most underrated players in the league. He plays both ways with good efficiency. He has been a bulldog on defense (although he has become a little inconsistent on that side of the court this last year) and the fact that I think Smart can be better on defense than him is a great compliment. He makes clutch shots when his team needs him to. He is a great teammate, fiery competitor, and an intimidating matchup.
    For the same reason that Draymond Green is considered a Max Player, defensive MVP candidate, great teammate, and the cog that makes the Warriors go, I think Marcus Smart could be a Max Player, defensive MVP candidate, and the cog that makes the Celtics go.

    The devil is in the details. The way Smart dips his shoulders under screens to stay with a ball-handler, the way Smart makes the extra pass, the way he tips passes, and the way he boxes out big men so that his teammate can get a rebound, all of that is what makes Smart special.

    He is not just an interesting prospect to me as a Celtics fan. I am doubling down on him to be a (the?) key component in our present and future success.

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  • #972611
    AvatarAvatar
    arambone2

     On Celticsblog there’s a popular thread where a majority of the fans say they would trade Smart for Elfrid Payton in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity. These are the same type of fans who adored Rondo, and probably thought MCW was a future star because he put up stats on a tanking PHI roster last year.

    Payton is a good player and a great prospect, but Smart is already an average 3 point shooter, on pretty high volume, in his rookie year. Payton will be lucky to shoot 35% from 3 on low volume some distant day in the future.

    Payton is better than Smart as a pure point guard, but he’s a major liability from the perimeter and at the FT line, just like Rondo. Teams can sag off Payton all day, which makes Payton’s teammates’ jobs harder, because they face more double teams and lane congestion.

    Smart is only an average offensive point guard right now, but he plays with poise and has a calming effect on his teammates.

    But Smart has much more positional versatility than Payton. Payton is strictly a point guard, and with a glaring inability to stretch the floor. Smart, who can shoot and weighs 40-45 lbs more than Payton, can play three positions on both sides of the floor. Smart is already an above average PG and SG, and he can defend a majority of the small forwards in the NBA at an adequate level.

    That versatility has major value. Meanwhile, the Magic will be trying and failing for years to make a Payton/Olidipo lineup work. It will fail because neither can stretch the floor with an outside shot, even if they continue to put up decent stats together in losses for the next few years.

    If the Magic had Smart instead of Payton OR Olidipo, that wouldn’t be nearly as much of a problem.

     

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    • #972617
      AvatarAvatar
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant

      You must be a Celtics fan too. I still can’t believe that thread. I think that was posted after the last Magic/Celtics game where Payton played pretty well, even though the Celtics still won. I just think that Payton reminds people a lot of a young Rondo, and it makes them nostalgic. 

      Oladipo is an average shooter from three (34%) with potential to improve. I think that backcourt has potential, especially when you play Frye or Harris at power forward. 

      I would rather have Smart. His versatility, competitiveness, defensive ability, and leadership make him unique. 

      I think he would compliment Kevin Love perfectly–a guy can dream :). 

       

       

       

       

       

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      • #972623
        AvatarAvatar
        arambone2

        I don’t think Love fits the Celtics formula for success. I think he’s a Me-first player and probably always will be. He’s finally winning for the first time in his life, which he claims is all he ever wanted, and he couldn’t be more miserable. I hope he goes to LAL or NYK and fulfills all his selfish dreams, padding his stats deep into garbage time while taking away development minutes for his young teammates.

         

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        • #972625
          AvatarAvatar
          treytalkssports.com
          Participant

          Normally, I would agree with you. This is one of the reasons that I didn’t think the Rondo-Green-Love core would work. 

          But that it how much I think of Marcus Smart. His competitiveness and unselfishness could be enough to redeem Love’s production and abilities. If Smart is the leader and competitor I think he is, then I think Love might fall in line. 

          I think Lebron’s ego rubs Love the wrong way. His role may be an annoyance, but I don’t think it is the major issue. 

          Love’s abilities are a perfect fit for Stevens’ system. Smart and Stevens might be able to leverage those abilities into wins. 

           

           

           

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        • #972779
          AvatarAvatar
          treytalkssports.com
          Participant

          Normally, I would agree with you. This is one of the reasons that I didn’t think the Rondo-Green-Love core would work. 

          But that it how much I think of Marcus Smart. His competitiveness and unselfishness could be enough to redeem Love’s production and abilities. If Smart is the leader and competitor I think he is, then I think Love might fall in line. 

          I think Lebron’s ego rubs Love the wrong way. His role may be an annoyance, but I don’t think it is the major issue. 

          Love’s abilities are a perfect fit for Stevens’ system. Smart and Stevens might be able to leverage those abilities into wins. 

           

           

           

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      • #972777
        AvatarAvatar
        arambone2

        I don’t think Love fits the Celtics formula for success. I think he’s a Me-first player and probably always will be. He’s finally winning for the first time in his life, which he claims is all he ever wanted, and he couldn’t be more miserable. I hope he goes to LAL or NYK and fulfills all his selfish dreams, padding his stats deep into garbage time while taking away development minutes for his young teammates.

         

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    • #972771
      AvatarAvatar
      treytalkssports.com
      Participant

      You must be a Celtics fan too. I still can’t believe that thread. I think that was posted after the last Magic/Celtics game where Payton played pretty well, even though the Celtics still won. I just think that Payton reminds people a lot of a young Rondo, and it makes them nostalgic. 

      Oladipo is an average shooter from three (34%) with potential to improve. I think that backcourt has potential, especially when you play Frye or Harris at power forward. 

      I would rather have Smart. His versatility, competitiveness, defensive ability, and leadership make him unique. 

      I think he would compliment Kevin Love perfectly–a guy can dream :). 

       

       

       

       

       

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  • #972765
    AvatarAvatar
    arambone2

     On Celticsblog there’s a popular thread where a majority of the fans say they would trade Smart for Elfrid Payton in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity. These are the same type of fans who adored Rondo, and probably thought MCW was a future star because he put up stats on a tanking PHI roster last year.

    Payton is a good player and a great prospect, but Smart is already an average 3 point shooter, on pretty high volume, in his rookie year. Payton will be lucky to shoot 35% from 3 on low volume some distant day in the future.

    Payton is better than Smart as a pure point guard, but he’s a major liability from the perimeter and at the FT line, just like Rondo. Teams can sag off Payton all day, which makes Payton’s teammates’ jobs harder, because they face more double teams and lane congestion.

    Smart is only an average offensive point guard right now, but he plays with poise and has a calming effect on his teammates.

    But Smart has much more positional versatility than Payton. Payton is strictly a point guard, and with a glaring inability to stretch the floor. Smart, who can shoot and weighs 40-45 lbs more than Payton, can play three positions on both sides of the floor. Smart is already an above average PG and SG, and he can defend a majority of the small forwards in the NBA at an adequate level.

    That versatility has major value. Meanwhile, the Magic will be trying and failing for years to make a Payton/Olidipo lineup work. It will fail because neither can stretch the floor with an outside shot, even if they continue to put up decent stats together in losses for the next few years.

    If the Magic had Smart instead of Payton OR Olidipo, that wouldn’t be nearly as much of a problem.

     

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  • #972621
    AvatarAvatar
    Meditated States
    Participant

     Of Westbrook and Tony Parner vs Rondo and i say its too early to call that a exposure. His title and 2 finals appearance already prove his point. Smart will never be a good finisher but improving his J will allow him to go off the dribble more. He does shoot too many threes. His defense is very good. Yeah he shot well in Oklahoma back home and i expected that from him. Peyton and Lavine fit more needs. He is basically a less athletic Avery Bradley. He hustles hard and plays hard too though.

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  • #972775
    AvatarAvatar
    Meditated States
    Participant

     Of Westbrook and Tony Parner vs Rondo and i say its too early to call that a exposure. His title and 2 finals appearance already prove his point. Smart will never be a good finisher but improving his J will allow him to go off the dribble more. He does shoot too many threes. His defense is very good. Yeah he shot well in Oklahoma back home and i expected that from him. Peyton and Lavine fit more needs. He is basically a less athletic Avery Bradley. He hustles hard and plays hard too though.

    0

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