triangle is too complicated

 Yeah, its complicated for the Knicks..

 Yeah, its complicated for the Knicks..

 The triangle needs players who have a high basketball IQ. Players who know and accept their role in the offensive scheme and don’t step outside the system. As currently constructed the Knicks have a bunch of low IQ guys who seem to play selfishly at times. As the OP said, JR Smith has the lowest basketball IQ this side of JaVale McGee. 

I personally have never been a Melo fan, but with the right personnel around him I could see him fulfilling that Kobe/Jordan role in the triangle as pure scorer. He just needs better players around him. Unlike Kobe and Jordan, Melo does not make his teammates better. 

 The triangle needs players who have a high basketball IQ. Players who know and accept their role in the offensive scheme and don’t step outside the system. As currently constructed the Knicks have a bunch of low IQ guys who seem to play selfishly at times. As the OP said, JR Smith has the lowest basketball IQ this side of JaVale McGee. 

I personally have never been a Melo fan, but with the right personnel around him I could see him fulfilling that Kobe/Jordan role in the triangle as pure scorer. He just needs better players around him. Unlike Kobe and Jordan, Melo does not make his teammates better. 

 Or maybe the triangle just isn’t that great without the best players in the world. Seriously what has Phil Jackson every won without amazing players. Larry Brown on the other hand always found ways to win no matter the players. 

 Or maybe the triangle just isn’t that great without the best players in the world. Seriously what has Phil Jackson every won without amazing players. Larry Brown on the other hand always found ways to win no matter the players. 

 The system is basically pass move cut hard but this Knicks team is just shxtty point blank period and I think the Fisher higher was premature. He isnt a great coach at this point. He doesnt hold players accountable and he hardly looks his players in the eye

 The system is basically pass move cut hard but this Knicks team is just shxtty point blank period and I think the Fisher higher was premature. He isnt a great coach at this point. He doesnt hold players accountable and he hardly looks his players in the eye

 The triangle does need to be refined and I’m sure Melo could work well in it, but there is a lack of basketball IQ on the Knicks roster. Shump knows his stuff, Calderon certainly, Prigioni for sure but he is pushing 38.

If they had kept Chandler then things may have been better but not hugely.

Phil needs time to get the roster how he wants it and even if Phil was coaching instead of Fisher would the teram be much better, I don’t think it would really.

The scary thing is that the Knicks are only one win better off than Philly and Philly doesn’t have anyone near Melo’s standard.

 The triangle does need to be refined and I’m sure Melo could work well in it, but there is a lack of basketball IQ on the Knicks roster. Shump knows his stuff, Calderon certainly, Prigioni for sure but he is pushing 38.

If they had kept Chandler then things may have been better but not hugely.

Phil needs time to get the roster how he wants it and even if Phil was coaching instead of Fisher would the teram be much better, I don’t think it would really.

The scary thing is that the Knicks are only one win better off than Philly and Philly doesn’t have anyone near Melo’s standard.

 The Triangle never matched up well with pick and roll teams. Now we are in a pick and roll era.

Also in a 3 point shot era so does the Triangle optimize the number of 3 point shots?

Everyone spaces well now.  When Coach Phil was winning, not every team did a good job spacing.

You can now do illegal defenses now so that could also take away some of the Triangle’s effectiveness.

 The Triangle never matched up well with pick and roll teams. Now we are in a pick and roll era.

Also in a 3 point shot era so does the Triangle optimize the number of 3 point shots?

Everyone spaces well now.  When Coach Phil was winning, not every team did a good job spacing.

You can now do illegal defenses now so that could also take away some of the Triangle’s effectiveness.

Carmelo Anthony doesn’t work with any team because you win (if you win) in spite of him.

Carmelo Anthony doesn’t work with any team because you win (if you win) in spite of him.

I have a hard time believing that Derek Fisher and Phil Jackson will be successful in New York, and it has nothing to do with them.  It has everything to do with the owner.  If Jerry Buss was running the Knicks, they would contend for a championship in a few years.

I have a hard time believing that Derek Fisher and Phil Jackson will be successful in New York, and it has nothing to do with them.  It has everything to do with the owner.  If Jerry Buss was running the Knicks, they would contend for a championship in a few years.

 Calderon should work well, in the John Paxson or Steve Kerr role in that offense.  C Anthony is the big scorer, obviously it doesn’t work without another big scorer, and more size on defense to fill the paint.

Trading away so many picks over the years, like the Eddy Curry deal, doesn’t help build a team.  Even picks in the Carmelo deal might still be out there, Denevr might have the option in a couple of years to swap picks with New York and the pick the Knicks are left with might go out in the Bargnani trade anyway.

A lot of teams would try to start from a fresh and clear salary cap, although that would mean C Anthony agreeing to a trade somewhere.  That is one option.  The other option the Knicks have, if they don’t blow it up with sending away Anthony, is clearing money and letting Amare expire and leave and maybe trading Calderon and JR Smith for ending deals.  A different option, getting expensive stars from other teams by trading away the contracts of Amare, Bargnani and others that expire this season.  At least the Knicks, with whatever they do, will provide plenty of news at the trade deadline or during the offseason.

 Calderon should work well, in the John Paxson or Steve Kerr role in that offense.  C Anthony is the big scorer, obviously it doesn’t work without another big scorer, and more size on defense to fill the paint.

Trading away so many picks over the years, like the Eddy Curry deal, doesn’t help build a team.  Even picks in the Carmelo deal might still be out there, Denevr might have the option in a couple of years to swap picks with New York and the pick the Knicks are left with might go out in the Bargnani trade anyway.

A lot of teams would try to start from a fresh and clear salary cap, although that would mean C Anthony agreeing to a trade somewhere.  That is one option.  The other option the Knicks have, if they don’t blow it up with sending away Anthony, is clearing money and letting Amare expire and leave and maybe trading Calderon and JR Smith for ending deals.  A different option, getting expensive stars from other teams by trading away the contracts of Amare, Bargnani and others that expire this season.  At least the Knicks, with whatever they do, will provide plenty of news at the trade deadline or during the offseason.

People pining for the triangle and defending it don’t understand the evolution of basketball.

Just like the Cover 2 or West Coast Offense in football, systems that worked GREAT in the 90s or early 00s don’t necessarily work great now.

Just in the past 5 years the league has become so much more about spacing, and the triangle offense basically deters that. It also doesn’t lead to many 3s. The Knicks suck, and have been basically as bad as Philly this year. I’m not at all excusing their utter lack of talent. But I do think its worth mentioning that system isn’t lending them any favors, nor do I think its an effective offense in 2015. Look at Steve Kerr. He played for Phil, and almost went to the Knicks. He literally is using no triangle concepts with the Warriors. Because it makes no sense for this day and age. Pop revolutionized things when he tinkered with what D’Antoni was doing, and mastered it to some extent. Almost every good team now is just copying that. Look at the Warriors or the Bulls, its the same thing. Swing the ball, get good shots, keep shooters on the floor, knock down 3s and get easy shots around the rim. The triangle doesn’t really lend any of those principles. 

People pining for the triangle and defending it don’t understand the evolution of basketball.

Just like the Cover 2 or West Coast Offense in football, systems that worked GREAT in the 90s or early 00s don’t necessarily work great now.

Just in the past 5 years the league has become so much more about spacing, and the triangle offense basically deters that. It also doesn’t lead to many 3s. The Knicks suck, and have been basically as bad as Philly this year. I’m not at all excusing their utter lack of talent. But I do think its worth mentioning that system isn’t lending them any favors, nor do I think its an effective offense in 2015. Look at Steve Kerr. He played for Phil, and almost went to the Knicks. He literally is using no triangle concepts with the Warriors. Because it makes no sense for this day and age. Pop revolutionized things when he tinkered with what D’Antoni was doing, and mastered it to some extent. Almost every good team now is just copying that. Look at the Warriors or the Bulls, its the same thing. Swing the ball, get good shots, keep shooters on the floor, knock down 3s and get easy shots around the rim. The triangle doesn’t really lend any of those principles. 

One of the Knicks issues is lack of quality big men that can pass out of the post… Dalembert is terrible in the triangle and normally kills floor spacing by literally being 2-3 feet from teammates…

I really do hate when you guys blame Melo, especially the last 3 seasons… It just shows lack of basketball knowledge when you guys do. Last year was the first year he missed the playoffs. Something no one in his draft class can say… I don’t see how he’s not a winner… Plus he had a great year statistical speaking and was hustling on defense… The Knicks backcourt was the worst in the league defensively and their front court was in the top 10… But continue to blame one man…

But back to the triangle… D. Fish is simply not the great leader that people think he is… He got fired as the player’s union rep for being unequipped to handle the job…

His coaching is looking funny in the light. I’m looking at his line-ups sometimes and think “WTF is he doing?” Part of the NBA offense is being able to be a threat when you receive the ball… Meaning the defense has to at least respect the fact that you’re ready to shoot… Go back and look at the Knicks offense… Every pass on the perimeter is to someone who isn’t looking to shoot or in the position to… Normally they’re 3 feet from the 3pt line… No one is a threat until they pass it into the post… Which reminds me… WHY THE HELL YOU DON’T HAVE MELO YOUR MAIN OPTION IN THE POST??!!! Why is Dalembert catching it at the elbow? Why are you so hell bent on playing Melo at the 3 and to shoot long 2’s at the end of the shot clock? D. Fish is TRYING to force the triangle but it’s like he’s missing the main point of it… Making your best offensive weapons the focal point of the offense… It’s simply isn’t happening with the Knicks and by the time Melo gets it it’s too late… You can’t even blame that on players… You just can’t…

They’re trash on defense, but that’s partly because their offense creates so many unattended fast breaks for the other team… I don’t see players abandoning the triangle too much to be honest… Eventually when the shot clock is down to 4 seconds what you expect them to do?

It’s a few things the Knicks can do… They went ISO with Melo this game and had success… You complaining about JR and he’s in street clothes (he’s not a problem IMO)… Fisher need to start Amare at 5 and Melo at 4… Or at least play them together more… Throw in some pick and rolls.. The ENTIRE offense doesn’t need to be the triangle… Part of being a coach is understanding your personnel and adjusting your game plan on the fly. You simply can’t be too caught up in your X’s and O’s and lose track of what’s going on in the game.

One of the Knicks issues is lack of quality big men that can pass out of the post… Dalembert is terrible in the triangle and normally kills floor spacing by literally being 2-3 feet from teammates…

I really do hate when you guys blame Melo, especially the last 3 seasons… It just shows lack of basketball knowledge when you guys do. Last year was the first year he missed the playoffs. Something no one in his draft class can say… I don’t see how he’s not a winner… Plus he had a great year statistical speaking and was hustling on defense… The Knicks backcourt was the worst in the league defensively and their front court was in the top 10… But continue to blame one man…

But back to the triangle… D. Fish is simply not the great leader that people think he is… He got fired as the player’s union rep for being unequipped to handle the job…

His coaching is looking funny in the light. I’m looking at his line-ups sometimes and think “WTF is he doing?” Part of the NBA offense is being able to be a threat when you receive the ball… Meaning the defense has to at least respect the fact that you’re ready to shoot… Go back and look at the Knicks offense… Every pass on the perimeter is to someone who isn’t looking to shoot or in the position to… Normally they’re 3 feet from the 3pt line… No one is a threat until they pass it into the post… Which reminds me… WHY THE HELL YOU DON’T HAVE MELO YOUR MAIN OPTION IN THE POST??!!! Why is Dalembert catching it at the elbow? Why are you so hell bent on playing Melo at the 3 and to shoot long 2’s at the end of the shot clock? D. Fish is TRYING to force the triangle but it’s like he’s missing the main point of it… Making your best offensive weapons the focal point of the offense… It’s simply isn’t happening with the Knicks and by the time Melo gets it it’s too late… You can’t even blame that on players… You just can’t…

They’re trash on defense, but that’s partly because their offense creates so many unattended fast breaks for the other team… I don’t see players abandoning the triangle too much to be honest… Eventually when the shot clock is down to 4 seconds what you expect them to do?

It’s a few things the Knicks can do… They went ISO with Melo this game and had success… You complaining about JR and he’s in street clothes (he’s not a problem IMO)… Fisher need to start Amare at 5 and Melo at 4… Or at least play them together more… Throw in some pick and rolls.. The ENTIRE offense doesn’t need to be the triangle… Part of being a coach is understanding your personnel and adjusting your game plan on the fly. You simply can’t be too caught up in your X’s and O’s and lose track of what’s going on in the game.

 The triangle is reliant on personel, it’s not too complicated for NBA players. We ran it in high school, and it’s not so complicated that freaking professional ball players, can’t get it, but it’s not some sort of cure all solution.

serioulsy, they’re running a new offense and people expected them to be vastly better? Comon, they lost their main rim protector, have a rookie head coach, and don’t have the right guys to run the triangle at a high level. Plus, they lack chemistry. 

The Knicks are bad, but it’s not because you need an IQ of 120+ or something to run the triangle. It’s not rocket science. There are 100 other things to point to as to why NY sucks, and the only one triangle related, IMO, is they don’t have the ideal group of guys to make it as successful as it could be.

 The triangle is reliant on personel, it’s not too complicated for NBA players. We ran it in high school, and it’s not so complicated that freaking professional ball players, can’t get it, but it’s not some sort of cure all solution.

serioulsy, they’re running a new offense and people expected them to be vastly better? Comon, they lost their main rim protector, have a rookie head coach, and don’t have the right guys to run the triangle at a high level. Plus, they lack chemistry. 

The Knicks are bad, but it’s not because you need an IQ of 120+ or something to run the triangle. It’s not rocket science. There are 100 other things to point to as to why NY sucks, and the only one triangle related, IMO, is they don’t have the ideal group of guys to make it as successful as it could be.

I think the main cog for a triangle offense is a good passing bigman with high bbal IQ. If you have Dalembert in the high post trying to be like Joakhim Noah, then Amare in the other high post just isolating every ball he gets rather than waiting for cutters, the system will be a disaster. They need to run the triangle around Melo, just please not Dalembert. He aint no Gasol or Spencer Hawes out there.

I think that was why the lakers were that successful with the triangle, when they acquired Gasol. He and Bynum had a great connection and the triangle was running around 3 highly skilled players. The Knicks have no personnel right now.

 The silver lining is that the Knicks could get EXACTLY what they need in this big-man rich draft since they also FINALLY have a pick!! In the lottery!! Haha. Jahil Okafor or Towns would be PERFECT for the triangle and any of the two would give the Knicks someone to cheer for, someone who they actually drafted and can call theirs, not someone bought. 

I think the main cog for a triangle offense is a good passing bigman with high bbal IQ. If you have Dalembert in the high post trying to be like Joakhim Noah, then Amare in the other high post just isolating every ball he gets rather than waiting for cutters, the system will be a disaster. They need to run the triangle around Melo, just please not Dalembert. He aint no Gasol or Spencer Hawes out there.

I think that was why the lakers were that successful with the triangle, when they acquired Gasol. He and Bynum had a great connection and the triangle was running around 3 highly skilled players. The Knicks have no personnel right now.

 The silver lining is that the Knicks could get EXACTLY what they need in this big-man rich draft since they also FINALLY have a pick!! In the lottery!! Haha. Jahil Okafor or Towns would be PERFECT for the triangle and any of the two would give the Knicks someone to cheer for, someone who they actually drafted and can call theirs, not someone bought. 

 The triangle takes time to learn and often Phil already had elite personnel in place to run it and bringing in newer players was easier as everyone else knew the scheme. Plus for example a player like Pau Gasol had a skill set which worked well with the triangle.

Phil needs to really consider aboe anything else does any FA or draftee have the game to fit into the triangle offence.

Does anyone know of any other NBA Team where the Team President is effectively dictating the playing style. Perhaps Derrick Fisher needs to find his own identity as a coach, he probably uses the triangle out of respect to Phil and having played under Phil for many years may prefer the triangle system but any system is only as good as the players that use it.

 The triangle takes time to learn and often Phil already had elite personnel in place to run it and bringing in newer players was easier as everyone else knew the scheme. Plus for example a player like Pau Gasol had a skill set which worked well with the triangle.

Phil needs to really consider aboe anything else does any FA or draftee have the game to fit into the triangle offence.

Does anyone know of any other NBA Team where the Team President is effectively dictating the playing style. Perhaps Derrick Fisher needs to find his own identity as a coach, he probably uses the triangle out of respect to Phil and having played under Phil for many years may prefer the triangle system but any system is only as good as the players that use it.

 This team sucks so bad, I don’t care if you run the triangle, motion, Princeton, spread option or the wing t offense this team will suck. Just get through the year, blow it up and start rebuilding.

 This team sucks so bad, I don’t care if you run the triangle, motion, Princeton, spread option or the wing t offense this team will suck. Just get through the year, blow it up and start rebuilding.

 the triangle isnt complicated its just that you need unselfish and smart players. 1 on 1 players find it hard to adjust to the triangle, just look at JR smith. Hes a talented 1 on 1 player but he doesnt have the basketball IQ and hes to selfish on the court 

 the triangle isnt complicated its just that you need unselfish and smart players. 1 on 1 players find it hard to adjust to the triangle, just look at JR smith. Hes a talented 1 on 1 player but he doesnt have the basketball IQ and hes to selfish on the court