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- Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 7:05am #58372
JoeWolf1Anthony Davis is off to a fantastic start this season, and filling the stat column as well as anyone has during the past ten or fifteen years has done. When you factor in his age, it’s even more exciting as the ceiling many of us predicted for him three years ago, now seems like it’s a little on the low end.
The problem is when talking about his MVP push is that the Pelicans are 3-3, and don’t really project to be a high level team this year in the NBA. In a conference where the 48 win Suns missed out of the post season, it’s not even a given Davis and the Pelicans will be playing in May.
Davis will have his time, but this year is just not the year. I gathered some of the most impressive statistical performances put for by players playing on average teams have accomplished, and Davis’ seemingly monster 3rd season, as exciting as it is, doesn’t project to an MVP trophy unless New Orleans somehow tops 50 games.
Michael Jordan – 1986-87 (3rd season) – 37.1 ppg 5.2 rpg 4.6 apg 2.9 spg 1.5 bpg – 40 wins
Charles Barkley – 1987-88 (3rd season) – 23 ppg 14.6 rpg 4.9 apg 1.8 spg 1.5 bpg – 45 wins
Hakeem Olajuwon – 1989-90 (6th season) – 24.3 ppg 14 rpg 2.9 apg 2.1 spg 4.6 bpg – 41 wins
David Robinson – 1991-92 (3rd season) – 23.2 ppg 12.2 rpg 2.7 apg 2.3 spg 4.5 bpg – 47 wins
Allen Iverson – 1998-99 (2rd season) – 22 ppg 3.7 rpg 6.2 apg 2.2 spg .3 bpg – 31 wins
Vince Carter – 2001-02 (3rd season) – 27.6 ppg 5.5 rpg 3.9 apg 1.5 spg 1.1 bpg – 47 wins
Kevin Garnett – 2002-03 (8th season) – 23 ppg 13.4 rpg 6 apg 1.4 spg 1.6 bpg – 51 wins
Lebron James – 2005-05 (3rd season) – 31.4 ppg 7 rpg 6.6 apg 1.6 spg .8 bpg – 50 wins
Obviously Davis is in some great company, and truly has a bright future ahead of him, but these seasons were also snubbed out of MVP trophies, and all except Carter went on to win at least one MVP.
Davis will have his time, but it won’t be this season playing for an average Pelicans squad.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 7:38am #955207
Memphis MadnessParticipantKareem, Moses Malone, and Bob McAdoo won MVP’s with their teams not winning that many games.
He is putting up LEGIT stats. So, he should be in the conversation.
It is still LeBron’s to lose even after a perceived slow start and a bit of a drop off in "stats" over his first few games. But, the Cavs are on a bit of a roll, and LeBron’s numbers are getting back up there. Currently on pace for a "12th Year Hondo" type season — 1973-1974 also resulted in a title for the Celtics. Something to think about if Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love are indeed the new JoJo White and Dave Cowens. Maybe not VINTAGE GREATNESS but maybe enough to win a title. Incidentally, Hondo was from Ohio.
If anybody takes it from LeBron, then I would go with Anthony Davis as a top candidate. If they get 45 or plus wins I think that would be enough to be considered — even if the Pelicans miss the playoffs.
I would actually put some other younger guys at the top of my list: Steph Curry is filling it up and the Warriors are rolling. Blake Griffin is a good one. CP3 is the only other "vet" other than LeBron at the top of my MVP list.
I don’t see Kobe getting it even if he does lead the league in scoring. I don’t see how the Lakers even sniff 35 wins. MVP voting has never been kind to Kobe anyway.
But, why not Anthony Davis?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 7:38am #955064
Memphis MadnessParticipantKareem, Moses Malone, and Bob McAdoo won MVP’s with their teams not winning that many games.
He is putting up LEGIT stats. So, he should be in the conversation.
It is still LeBron’s to lose even after a perceived slow start and a bit of a drop off in "stats" over his first few games. But, the Cavs are on a bit of a roll, and LeBron’s numbers are getting back up there. Currently on pace for a "12th Year Hondo" type season — 1973-1974 also resulted in a title for the Celtics. Something to think about if Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love are indeed the new JoJo White and Dave Cowens. Maybe not VINTAGE GREATNESS but maybe enough to win a title. Incidentally, Hondo was from Ohio.
If anybody takes it from LeBron, then I would go with Anthony Davis as a top candidate. If they get 45 or plus wins I think that would be enough to be considered — even if the Pelicans miss the playoffs.
I would actually put some other younger guys at the top of my list: Steph Curry is filling it up and the Warriors are rolling. Blake Griffin is a good one. CP3 is the only other "vet" other than LeBron at the top of my MVP list.
I don’t see Kobe getting it even if he does lead the league in scoring. I don’t see how the Lakers even sniff 35 wins. MVP voting has never been kind to Kobe anyway.
But, why not Anthony Davis?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 7:47am #955209
Memphis MadnessParticipantWow, I just looked at my stats and Steph Curry is actually leading the league in scoring.
Top 3 MVP Race is LeBron, Davis, and Curry in some order. Having more wins would help but anywhere north of 50 would be fine. I think the Pelicans’ magic number would be 45 although that might not get them into the playoffs.
Then compare the Pelican’s record against East teams to the Cavs record against East teams.
I wouldn’t penalize Anthony Davis unless the Pelicans have a bad (sub-.500) record.
One reason I would go with Davis is that he doesn’t have a bunch of stars around him. LeBron has Kyrie and Kevin. Even Steph has Klay and Iggy with Bogut, David Lee, and Draymond also being nice players.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 7:47am #955066
Memphis MadnessParticipantWow, I just looked at my stats and Steph Curry is actually leading the league in scoring.
Top 3 MVP Race is LeBron, Davis, and Curry in some order. Having more wins would help but anywhere north of 50 would be fine. I think the Pelicans’ magic number would be 45 although that might not get them into the playoffs.
Then compare the Pelican’s record against East teams to the Cavs record against East teams.
I wouldn’t penalize Anthony Davis unless the Pelicans have a bad (sub-.500) record.
One reason I would go with Davis is that he doesn’t have a bunch of stars around him. LeBron has Kyrie and Kevin. Even Steph has Klay and Iggy with Bogut, David Lee, and Draymond also being nice players.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:21am #955211
B-ball fanParticipantTheir early schedule has been pretty tough. The team improved the most on paper in the offseason of any team other than Cleveland, adding Asik to replace Stiemsma/Smith from last season and hopefully getting Anderson (22 games played last season) and Holiday (34 games played last season) back from injury. Plus Evans played terribly last season when he wasn’t hurt excepting late in the season when eveybody else was seemingly injured, but this season he seems much improved, even knocking down threes with efficiency. Plus, Davis and Rivers seem much improved.
The Pelicans seem to have a lot of injury prone players and could easily have another bad season, although I highly doubt they are close to as bad as last year. But they stand to make major imrovements. I don’t think AD is the favorite for MVP, as Steph Curry, DeMarcus Cousins and LeBron all have legitimate shots. I would say Curry and LeBron are the two biggest favorites, as both will have narrative appeal on their sides. But Davis is completely a legitimate candidate with Durant injured and DMC playing on a team that may or may not be any better than the Pelicans (and if last season is any indication, it will be worse).
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:21am #955068
B-ball fanParticipantTheir early schedule has been pretty tough. The team improved the most on paper in the offseason of any team other than Cleveland, adding Asik to replace Stiemsma/Smith from last season and hopefully getting Anderson (22 games played last season) and Holiday (34 games played last season) back from injury. Plus Evans played terribly last season when he wasn’t hurt excepting late in the season when eveybody else was seemingly injured, but this season he seems much improved, even knocking down threes with efficiency. Plus, Davis and Rivers seem much improved.
The Pelicans seem to have a lot of injury prone players and could easily have another bad season, although I highly doubt they are close to as bad as last year. But they stand to make major imrovements. I don’t think AD is the favorite for MVP, as Steph Curry, DeMarcus Cousins and LeBron all have legitimate shots. I would say Curry and LeBron are the two biggest favorites, as both will have narrative appeal on their sides. But Davis is completely a legitimate candidate with Durant injured and DMC playing on a team that may or may not be any better than the Pelicans (and if last season is any indication, it will be worse).
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:37am #955213
tuck243ParticipantEric Gordon… He’s starting every game and playing 33 minutes per… He doesn’t have a specialty outside of scoring and shooting 29% from the field while shooting 19% from 3… You can’t have this dude out there man… He has a negative win share and his demeanor is terrible… Matching his contract was one of the worst decisions New Orleans have done…
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:37am #955070
tuck243ParticipantEric Gordon… He’s starting every game and playing 33 minutes per… He doesn’t have a specialty outside of scoring and shooting 29% from the field while shooting 19% from 3… You can’t have this dude out there man… He has a negative win share and his demeanor is terrible… Matching his contract was one of the worst decisions New Orleans have done…
0- Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 10:26pm #955149
Mr. HookShotParticipantIn hindsight yes, but during the time the Pelicans just traded the face of their franchise Chris Paul to the Clippers for Minnesota’s first (10th pick: Austin Rivers), Gordon, and Aminu. If they not had matched they basically got nothing out of trading Chris Paul. Add to that that Gordon was perhaps the upcoming SG in the league (both offensively as well as defensively) and matching seemed like an obvious decision, despite Gordon publicly stating his will to go to Phoenix.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 10:26pm #955293
Mr. HookShotParticipantIn hindsight yes, but during the time the Pelicans just traded the face of their franchise Chris Paul to the Clippers for Minnesota’s first (10th pick: Austin Rivers), Gordon, and Aminu. If they not had matched they basically got nothing out of trading Chris Paul. Add to that that Gordon was perhaps the upcoming SG in the league (both offensively as well as defensively) and matching seemed like an obvious decision, despite Gordon publicly stating his will to go to Phoenix.
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- Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:38am #955215
JoeWolf1When did I say he’s not putting up legit stats, or that he should be in the conversation? I didn’t. I just think that New Orleans isn’t going to win enough to really be in the conversation for him to win the award. Whether you like it or not, the NBA is habitual about giving the award to someone on a legit contending caliber team.
Just look at the recent history. McAdoo, and Kareem played in a different era, when awards were not calculated the same way.
Kevin Durant – 13-14 – 59 wins
Lebron James – 12-13 – 66 wins
Lebron James – 11-12 – 47 wins ( strike year .697 win percentage )
Derrick Rose – 10-11 – 62 wins
Lebron James – 09-10 – 61 wins
Lebron James – 08-09 – 66 wins
Kobe Bryant – 07-08 – 57 wins
Dirk Nowitzki – 06-07 – 67 wins
Steve Nash – 05-06 – 54 wins
Steve Nash – 04-05 – 62 wins
Kevin Garnett – 03-04 – 58 wins
I love AD as a player, and think he’ll bring home an MVP trophy at some point in his career, perhaps faster than Lebron and KD, but I have a really hard time that New Orleans will be a good enough team for him to take the award.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 8:38am #955072
JoeWolf1When did I say he’s not putting up legit stats, or that he should be in the conversation? I didn’t. I just think that New Orleans isn’t going to win enough to really be in the conversation for him to win the award. Whether you like it or not, the NBA is habitual about giving the award to someone on a legit contending caliber team.
Just look at the recent history. McAdoo, and Kareem played in a different era, when awards were not calculated the same way.
Kevin Durant – 13-14 – 59 wins
Lebron James – 12-13 – 66 wins
Lebron James – 11-12 – 47 wins ( strike year .697 win percentage )
Derrick Rose – 10-11 – 62 wins
Lebron James – 09-10 – 61 wins
Lebron James – 08-09 – 66 wins
Kobe Bryant – 07-08 – 57 wins
Dirk Nowitzki – 06-07 – 67 wins
Steve Nash – 05-06 – 54 wins
Steve Nash – 04-05 – 62 wins
Kevin Garnett – 03-04 – 58 wins
I love AD as a player, and think he’ll bring home an MVP trophy at some point in his career, perhaps faster than Lebron and KD, but I have a really hard time that New Orleans will be a good enough team for him to take the award.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 9:07am #955217
Memphis MadnessParticipantIf it is a tossup I think LeBron would get it over Davis.
To compare win totals, you might even have to compare Conferences. One way to do it: compare Cleveland’s record against East teams with New Orleans’ record. Then see who does better against West teams.
Might even play the What If game. What if LeBron and Davis switched places? Don’t like LeBron and those Pelicans doing that much. But, what about Anthony Davis inside with Kevin Love? Then Kyrie Irving as a third option with Varejao, TT, Shawn Marion, and Joe Harris as role players? I guess Waiters would go in that 6th man role or secondary option on offense, or get traded. But, that Cavs team would be really, really good.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 9:07am #955074
Memphis MadnessParticipantIf it is a tossup I think LeBron would get it over Davis.
To compare win totals, you might even have to compare Conferences. One way to do it: compare Cleveland’s record against East teams with New Orleans’ record. Then see who does better against West teams.
Might even play the What If game. What if LeBron and Davis switched places? Don’t like LeBron and those Pelicans doing that much. But, what about Anthony Davis inside with Kevin Love? Then Kyrie Irving as a third option with Varejao, TT, Shawn Marion, and Joe Harris as role players? I guess Waiters would go in that 6th man role or secondary option on offense, or get traded. But, that Cavs team would be really, really good.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:01am #955228
BogDon_KryptParticipantBro, you have to be more specific. I thought the post was for Ed Davis, or E Davis as he likes to be called. No way would I have wasted my time reading this mumbo jumbo if I knew it were about the lesser known Davis (Anfernee).
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:01am #955084
BogDon_KryptParticipantBro, you have to be more specific. I thought the post was for Ed Davis, or E Davis as he likes to be called. No way would I have wasted my time reading this mumbo jumbo if I knew it were about the lesser known Davis (Anfernee).
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:16am #955231
Meditated StatesParticipantThat must stop coach. Fix it.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:16am #955088
Meditated StatesParticipantThat must stop coach. Fix it.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:58am #955240
TRC1991ParticipantStephen Curry and James Harden will get some recognition as their teams continue to flourish
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:58am #955096
TRC1991ParticipantStephen Curry and James Harden will get some recognition as their teams continue to flourish
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 2:24pm #955247
thparadoxParticipantWinning teams get the benefit of the doubt, but it’s mostly about narrative.
Let’s say that Anthony Davis keeps playing at this level and the Pelicans get the 7th seed. I think people realize how tough that is in the Western Conference. He may get compensated for that.
A great year from the Clippers / Spurs / Rockets probably splits the vote. Cleveland is expected to be a powerhouse, but Lebron may not put up numbers are high as prior years (playing with a deeper team, higher usage teammates, etc)
I think the biggest threat is Steph Curry. If the Warriors finish top 2 in the West, he could get the MVP vote.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 2:24pm #955104
thparadoxParticipantWinning teams get the benefit of the doubt, but it’s mostly about narrative.
Let’s say that Anthony Davis keeps playing at this level and the Pelicans get the 7th seed. I think people realize how tough that is in the Western Conference. He may get compensated for that.
A great year from the Clippers / Spurs / Rockets probably splits the vote. Cleveland is expected to be a powerhouse, but Lebron may not put up numbers are high as prior years (playing with a deeper team, higher usage teammates, etc)
I think the biggest threat is Steph Curry. If the Warriors finish top 2 in the West, he could get the MVP vote.
0- Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 4:43pm #955263
ballislyfe25ParticipantI agree with your statement about the Western Conference. It is so tough out there and for them to be in the running for a playoff spot definitely puts Davis in the MVP conversation. At the same time, if Davis cannot get his team into the 7th or 8th seed, should he really win MVP?
The award should go to the player who has the combined best individual season and impact on his team; that is, they need impressive individual numbers and the impact on their teams success must be evident. These are the two factors I personally consider most important. What if we take Davis off of the Pelicans? They would be one of the worst teams in the league. We know the Bulls can beat anyone on any given night, no matter who is out due to injury. However, if Derrick Rose isn’t healthy or playing to the best of his ability, they are not really a threat to a true contender (Ex: Miami, San Antonio, etc). LeBron is the best player in the league every year and has the numbers and team success to back it up.
It’s so tough to quantify but I think the right player is chosen more often than not.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 11/11/2014 - 4:43pm #955120
ballislyfe25ParticipantI agree with your statement about the Western Conference. It is so tough out there and for them to be in the running for a playoff spot definitely puts Davis in the MVP conversation. At the same time, if Davis cannot get his team into the 7th or 8th seed, should he really win MVP?
The award should go to the player who has the combined best individual season and impact on his team; that is, they need impressive individual numbers and the impact on their teams success must be evident. These are the two factors I personally consider most important. What if we take Davis off of the Pelicans? They would be one of the worst teams in the league. We know the Bulls can beat anyone on any given night, no matter who is out due to injury. However, if Derrick Rose isn’t healthy or playing to the best of his ability, they are not really a threat to a true contender (Ex: Miami, San Antonio, etc). LeBron is the best player in the league every year and has the numbers and team success to back it up.
It’s so tough to quantify but I think the right player is chosen more often than not.
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- Posted on: Wed, 11/12/2014 - 6:33pm #955397
Rip255You can throw all the stats at me you like, Davis has been the best player to start the season. He may not win it, but he’s in contention and I’ll leave this forum if he plays 82 games and doesn’t finish top 3.
If he keeps up this pace, and Lebron doesn’t lead to cavs to 55+ wins, Davis is my pick.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 11/12/2014 - 6:33pm #955254
Rip255You can throw all the stats at me you like, Davis has been the best player to start the season. He may not win it, but he’s in contention and I’ll leave this forum if he plays 82 games and doesn’t finish top 3.
If he keeps up this pace, and Lebron doesn’t lead to cavs to 55+ wins, Davis is my pick.
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