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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:03am #57367
druneave3ParticipantSaw a report that stated how polarizing a topic the Wiggins-Love scenario was among league execs. and scouts. It is an interesting debate because a team with LeBron, Love, and Kyrie would obviously be one of the favorites in the East. On the other hand, Andrew Wiggins’ potential is off the charts (he almost shut down twitter last night with two spectacular plays – spin/dunk and block on Noel).
I might have a missed a previous thread about this but I was curious what the forum thought about this issue. Would you trade Wiggins for Love?
My answer: A huge No.
Reasons:
Potential: I compare trading Wiggins for Love like moving Scottie Pippen for Tom Chambers. The Wiggins-Pippen comp is a good one but don’t get caught up in the Love-Chambers similarities in this comment, not saying they have similar games or projections. I am merely stating they are already established, All-Star, offensive minded power forwards who would be a very nice piece on a top team, but should never be a #1 option on a contender. Given the potential that Wiggins has only increased now that he can learn under LeBron. This is reason enough for me not to move Wiggins. Keeping Wiggins is better long term for your franchise as well. Once, LeBron leaves/retires, Wiggins will be ready to take over.
Defense: Love is obviously extremely talented but his numbers are inflated from being on bad teams and he doesn’t play D (besides reboudning aspects of defense). Having Kyrie and Love would almost require LeBron to guard the entire team himself. That didn’t work out to well in the Finals. I think Patty Mills and Danny Green are still open. Team defense is paramount and playing those two together could be a bad thing on that end. Teams could attack them PnR all day.
Depth: This trade would hurt CLE’s depth in two ways. Trading away assests and long-term financial flexibilty. Like defense, LeBron saw in the Finals how important depth (and youth) are. Paying a new Big 3 would leave no room for key role players and would be forced to fill the roster with minimum contracts and old ring chasers.
I don’t think adding Love automatically vaults you over the Spurs, OKC, Bulls* and other teams who added pieces and improved this offseason. The potential that Wiggins possess is too much to pass on. Cleveland most likely won’t win it all this year given their youth and lack of chemistry but if LeBron can be a little patient, this team has the talent and depth to be really really good. His contract is only for 2 years and if LeBron is willing to be patient is another story.
*healthy Rose
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:17am #936474
Ebown5ParticipantIf I were a Cavs fan I would probably want to keep Wiggins, but that depends really on Lebron. If Lebron really wants Love over Wiggins then I would probably do it.
Kevin Love is a much better player than Tom Chambers. Chambers was an allstar, but Love is a superstar. He is a 25 per game scorer, plus someone that contends for the rebounding title every year.
If you could get him basically for Wiggins and fluff then he is probably worth it. If you would also have to give up other assets with him then maybe not.
In the end though I don’t think that the Twolves will be able to get a better deal elsewhere so they may have their hand forced at the deadline. Waiters, Bennett and a first round pick is a great haul for someone that you will lose for nothing at the end of the year.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:17am #936344
Ebown5ParticipantIf I were a Cavs fan I would probably want to keep Wiggins, but that depends really on Lebron. If Lebron really wants Love over Wiggins then I would probably do it.
Kevin Love is a much better player than Tom Chambers. Chambers was an allstar, but Love is a superstar. He is a 25 per game scorer, plus someone that contends for the rebounding title every year.
If you could get him basically for Wiggins and fluff then he is probably worth it. If you would also have to give up other assets with him then maybe not.
In the end though I don’t think that the Twolves will be able to get a better deal elsewhere so they may have their hand forced at the deadline. Waiters, Bennett and a first round pick is a great haul for someone that you will lose for nothing at the end of the year.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:23am #936476
max23ParticipantThe only r ason id even consider it is because Lebron signed for 2 years.I heard the stuff about him waiting for new tv deal,but as ive learned in past month,unless Lebron(and not sources)says it(goes for any other nba stars),i dont believe it.Plus,Carmelo signed with the knicks mostly for money,and HE didnt do this 2 years waiting for more money thing.I want to believe his letter,but his letter is imcompatible with signing 2 years(again,for now,i dont believe the tv deal reason)
If Lebron doesnt make the finals in next 2 years,we could have another decision pt3 circus in 2 years.Its unlikely,but the bulls if healthy are my favorites to make finals this coming year,and who knows what happens next summer,what east team will get better through free agency.
But the cavs could just sign Love next summer,although this would be risky since chances are he will get traded,and possibly to a great situation long term for him.
I do get that Wiggins has lots of potential,but hes about 2-3 years away from being big time.And as m
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:23am #936346
max23ParticipantThe only r ason id even consider it is because Lebron signed for 2 years.I heard the stuff about him waiting for new tv deal,but as ive learned in past month,unless Lebron(and not sources)says it(goes for any other nba stars),i dont believe it.Plus,Carmelo signed with the knicks mostly for money,and HE didnt do this 2 years waiting for more money thing.I want to believe his letter,but his letter is imcompatible with signing 2 years(again,for now,i dont believe the tv deal reason)
If Lebron doesnt make the finals in next 2 years,we could have another decision pt3 circus in 2 years.Its unlikely,but the bulls if healthy are my favorites to make finals this coming year,and who knows what happens next summer,what east team will get better through free agency.
But the cavs could just sign Love next summer,although this would be risky since chances are he will get traded,and possibly to a great situation long term for him.
I do get that Wiggins has lots of potential,but hes about 2-3 years away from being big time.And as m
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:31am #936478
Andrew1984ParticipantI don’t think either option is a bad option. If the Cavs keep Wiggins and do not obtain Love, I won’t be upset. I personally would trade Wiggins for Love, but if Gilbert-Griffin-Blatt disagree, that’s fine with me as well. But here’s my take:
I think the people who wouldn’t trade Wiggins for Love are not realizing how epically, insanely, historically good Kevin Love’s numbers have been. There simply has never been a player in league history that has been that lethal from the perimeter while at the same time collecting that many rebounds. Players who rebound that well can’t shoot like that and vice versa. Add the value of his outlet passing to a team that will want to run and then add the importance of stretching the floor for Kyrie and LeBron’s drives, and it is absolutely mind-boggling to think of the headache opposing coaches will have while desperately trying to craft a strategy to defend them.
Andrew Wiggins will never average 26 points and 13 rebounds. Few players in league history EVER HAVE. Kevin Love is a walking anomaly, and is in the prime of his career. We don’t have to wait for him to develop. He is a perfect complement to Kyrie and LeBron. I’d rather have success right now than the possibility of success in the future.
Although, one factor that may cause me to change my mind would be Anthony Bennett. He’ll never be quite as a good as Kevin Love, but if he happens to blow us all away (maybe having been motivated by LeBron and Blatt), then I’d be fine with not trading for Love.
Another factor is Dion Waiters. If the club views Wiggins as a two, that relegates Waiters to bench duty. I wouldn’t mind having Waiters in to provide scoring punch when Kyrie and LeBron are resting, but I think Dion would rather be traded. So how good of a four can the Cavs get for Dion? One nearly as good as Love?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:31am #936348
Andrew1984ParticipantI don’t think either option is a bad option. If the Cavs keep Wiggins and do not obtain Love, I won’t be upset. I personally would trade Wiggins for Love, but if Gilbert-Griffin-Blatt disagree, that’s fine with me as well. But here’s my take:
I think the people who wouldn’t trade Wiggins for Love are not realizing how epically, insanely, historically good Kevin Love’s numbers have been. There simply has never been a player in league history that has been that lethal from the perimeter while at the same time collecting that many rebounds. Players who rebound that well can’t shoot like that and vice versa. Add the value of his outlet passing to a team that will want to run and then add the importance of stretching the floor for Kyrie and LeBron’s drives, and it is absolutely mind-boggling to think of the headache opposing coaches will have while desperately trying to craft a strategy to defend them.
Andrew Wiggins will never average 26 points and 13 rebounds. Few players in league history EVER HAVE. Kevin Love is a walking anomaly, and is in the prime of his career. We don’t have to wait for him to develop. He is a perfect complement to Kyrie and LeBron. I’d rather have success right now than the possibility of success in the future.
Although, one factor that may cause me to change my mind would be Anthony Bennett. He’ll never be quite as a good as Kevin Love, but if he happens to blow us all away (maybe having been motivated by LeBron and Blatt), then I’d be fine with not trading for Love.
Another factor is Dion Waiters. If the club views Wiggins as a two, that relegates Waiters to bench duty. I wouldn’t mind having Waiters in to provide scoring punch when Kyrie and LeBron are resting, but I think Dion would rather be traded. So how good of a four can the Cavs get for Dion? One nearly as good as Love?
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:35am #936555
aztwulfParticipantThe OP made a comment about Love’s meaningless statistics, as if the basket is wider, and the points come easier when you are on a bad team. Love is an extremely efficient scorer. I don’t think people realize that Love WAS ALL MINNESOTA HAD on offense. The ball went to Love late in the shot clock and people looked for Love to score. All those 3 pointers came with a hand in his face and under duress. Imagine how efficient Love will be with the chance to pick his spots.
Love also gets to the line a ton. The guy shoots free throws well, so you want the ball in his hands.
You said it….. this is just insane.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:35am #936425
aztwulfParticipantThe OP made a comment about Love’s meaningless statistics, as if the basket is wider, and the points come easier when you are on a bad team. Love is an extremely efficient scorer. I don’t think people realize that Love WAS ALL MINNESOTA HAD on offense. The ball went to Love late in the shot clock and people looked for Love to score. All those 3 pointers came with a hand in his face and under duress. Imagine how efficient Love will be with the chance to pick his spots.
Love also gets to the line a ton. The guy shoots free throws well, so you want the ball in his hands.
You said it….. this is just insane.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 10:56am #936477
tuck243Participant"Extremely efficient scorer"… Which he is not… He has one of the worst FG% for a PF in the league… 45% is what you would expect out of a SG, not your starting PF…
Also, another thing about Love that I noticed… (I’m watching this seasons games, currently on the 15th game of his)… Love doesn’t attempt to block shots at all… This is the first time I felt like a player was trying to pat his stats… One play in particular…
His teammate got beat off the dribble on the left baseline (if you looking at the hoop from the top of the key)… Kevin was in position to attempt a block shot instead boxed his man out and allowed the dude to take the floater… Looked as if he cleared room for the shot… I like Love, but I think he’s maybe a 19 and 10 player on a better team, he’s a legit second option… I hate the West vs East crap too… We don’t know what he would do in the East… All we know is that he hasn’t played in the playoffs as a first option…
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:43pm #936545
kngojcParticipantIf you’re watching all his games, then you know exactly what they said is true. He always has a hand in his face. And when your second best option is Kevin Martin, who also picks his spots from the left side of the court (like Love does), finding the space to get off a clean look is tough. Watch the games and see how many he knocks down when he’s open on the left side. Having Lebron WILL open up shots for everyone. You saw how much better Bosh got when he developed the 3, Love has that shot down and will knock it down consistently.
Personally, I think Wiggins for Love is a no brainer. Love may not be a franchise savior, but that doesn’t take away the fact that he’s a top 5 scorer, top 5 rebounder, a fantastic outlet passer, and can be relied on to produce from the post or perimeter in clutch situations.
Wiggins has enormous potential, but you know what you’re getting in Love, and he’s also improve some facet of his game every year to get to be THIS good. I do think it’s more likely to see a Waiters/Bennet/picks for Love trade. But either way, Love would be an incredible fit for the Cavs.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:54pm #936560
aztwulfParticipantI can’t see Minnesota going for a Waiters-Bennett or Waiters-Thompson package, even with a first, or two, attached. I don’t get the sense that Saunders is kidding, or posturing.
I think GS, PHX, or possibly Houston will end up being where Love eventually gets dealt. I think Love will get dealt before the season starts, but I guess it wouldn’t shock me if he started the season in Minnesota and got dealt soon after.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:48pm #936715
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantHe’d rather have nothing than take anybody back he doesn’t want, cap room is more important to them than players they don’t like, plus, it’s not like Cleveland is offering projected Top 3 picks. Waiters fills the same role as Lavine, Bennett’s contract is an albatross in comparison to his value, they don’t have shit besides Wiggins to offer.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:48pm #936584
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantHe’d rather have nothing than take anybody back he doesn’t want, cap room is more important to them than players they don’t like, plus, it’s not like Cleveland is offering projected Top 3 picks. Waiters fills the same role as Lavine, Bennett’s contract is an albatross in comparison to his value, they don’t have shit besides Wiggins to offer.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 4:37pm #936730
aztwulfParticipantFlip would rather have one year of Love and let him walk for cap space rather then take back players who aren’t as good as their contracts. I think that is part of the hangup with GS. David Lee is a good player, but I am not sure that he plays up to his contract. Klay is a very good player on his current contract, but Klay is due to get paid and I am not sure that Klay is going to be a value beyond this year.
GSW knows all this as well, and they are trying to figure out a way to fit Lee, Curry, Bogut, Iggy, and soon to be richly paid Klay into their salary cap. If they can offload Lee and soon to be rich Klay to Minnesota for Love, that might make their task a little easier.
Lee almost has to be in the deal to make salaries match, plus GSW doesn’t need two PF’s (Lee and Love), I think KMart will end up in the deal (to replace Klay) and Barnes or Draymond will come back to Minnesota. Maybe Minnesota can get a first out of GSW as well, but I wouldn’t count on it.
I would rather watch Love play with LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, but that isn’t looking very likely. GSW will be awfully tough with a front line of Love, Bogut, and Iggy. Bogut and Iggy are tough defenders and can help cover for the other three. Love, Curry, and KMart all help create spacing.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 4:37pm #936600
aztwulfParticipantFlip would rather have one year of Love and let him walk for cap space rather then take back players who aren’t as good as their contracts. I think that is part of the hangup with GS. David Lee is a good player, but I am not sure that he plays up to his contract. Klay is a very good player on his current contract, but Klay is due to get paid and I am not sure that Klay is going to be a value beyond this year.
GSW knows all this as well, and they are trying to figure out a way to fit Lee, Curry, Bogut, Iggy, and soon to be richly paid Klay into their salary cap. If they can offload Lee and soon to be rich Klay to Minnesota for Love, that might make their task a little easier.
Lee almost has to be in the deal to make salaries match, plus GSW doesn’t need two PF’s (Lee and Love), I think KMart will end up in the deal (to replace Klay) and Barnes or Draymond will come back to Minnesota. Maybe Minnesota can get a first out of GSW as well, but I wouldn’t count on it.
I would rather watch Love play with LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, but that isn’t looking very likely. GSW will be awfully tough with a front line of Love, Bogut, and Iggy. Bogut and Iggy are tough defenders and can help cover for the other three. Love, Curry, and KMart all help create spacing.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:54pm #936691
aztwulfParticipantI can’t see Minnesota going for a Waiters-Bennett or Waiters-Thompson package, even with a first, or two, attached. I don’t get the sense that Saunders is kidding, or posturing.
I think GS, PHX, or possibly Houston will end up being where Love eventually gets dealt. I think Love will get dealt before the season starts, but I guess it wouldn’t shock me if he started the season in Minnesota and got dealt soon after.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:43pm #936675
kngojcParticipantIf you’re watching all his games, then you know exactly what they said is true. He always has a hand in his face. And when your second best option is Kevin Martin, who also picks his spots from the left side of the court (like Love does), finding the space to get off a clean look is tough. Watch the games and see how many he knocks down when he’s open on the left side. Having Lebron WILL open up shots for everyone. You saw how much better Bosh got when he developed the 3, Love has that shot down and will knock it down consistently.
Personally, I think Wiggins for Love is a no brainer. Love may not be a franchise savior, but that doesn’t take away the fact that he’s a top 5 scorer, top 5 rebounder, a fantastic outlet passer, and can be relied on to produce from the post or perimeter in clutch situations.
Wiggins has enormous potential, but you know what you’re getting in Love, and he’s also improve some facet of his game every year to get to be THIS good. I do think it’s more likely to see a Waiters/Bennet/picks for Love trade. But either way, Love would be an incredible fit for the Cavs.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:45pm #936548
aztwulfParticipantI repeat, Extremely efficient Scorer.
Let’s see. Love shot .376 from 3 point land, 190-505 to be exact. This was no anomaly as Love shot .417 and .372 his last two full seasons (not counting the injury marred 2012-13 season where he wore a protective pad on his shooting hand part of the time).
OK lets talk 2 pointers now. Hmmmm………. Love shot .502 on 460-916. Well, maybe that was a fluke? Apparently not, as Love shot .475, .483, .474, and .469 in previous seasons.
Maybe he is inefficient from the free throw line? Nope, not with .821 on 520-633. Previous seasons of .824, .850, .815, and .789.
I don’t know what they call it where you live, but where I live if you have a high usage primary option guy who shoots 37.6 from 3, 50.2 from 2, and 82.1 from the line, they call him an extremely efficient scorer.
I never made any reference in my post to Love’s defense. It would be foolish, and wrong, for me to argue that Love was a good shot blocker, simply because he isn’t…… but that wasn’t my post.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:36pm #936709
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantAgreed aztwulf. It’s not fair to hold Love to the same FG% standards as PFs that takes all their shots near the basket.
Love averaged 6.6 three point attempts per game last season, that will lower anybody’s FG%. The more meaningful measurement is EFG% (which takes into account the fact that a three pointer is worth an extra point when compared to a regular field goal).
Love’s EFG% last season was .524, higher than Zach Randolph (.476), Lamarcus Aldridge (.459), and Anthony Davis (.520) and not much lower than Blake Griffin’s .533 despite Griffin having a far better FG%.
Love is a highly efficient and versatile scorer, a dominant rebounder, and a terrific outlet passer. He isn’t a great defender but not every star player can do everything, there’s a reason players like Jordan, Lebron and Hakeem are considered legends.
Maybe Love can’t carry a terrible team into the playoffs, plenty of players (including MJ) have had trouble doing that, but pair him up with another star and see what he is capable of.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:36pm #936578
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantAgreed aztwulf. It’s not fair to hold Love to the same FG% standards as PFs that takes all their shots near the basket.
Love averaged 6.6 three point attempts per game last season, that will lower anybody’s FG%. The more meaningful measurement is EFG% (which takes into account the fact that a three pointer is worth an extra point when compared to a regular field goal).
Love’s EFG% last season was .524, higher than Zach Randolph (.476), Lamarcus Aldridge (.459), and Anthony Davis (.520) and not much lower than Blake Griffin’s .533 despite Griffin having a far better FG%.
Love is a highly efficient and versatile scorer, a dominant rebounder, and a terrific outlet passer. He isn’t a great defender but not every star player can do everything, there’s a reason players like Jordan, Lebron and Hakeem are considered legends.
Maybe Love can’t carry a terrible team into the playoffs, plenty of players (including MJ) have had trouble doing that, but pair him up with another star and see what he is capable of.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:45pm #936679
aztwulfParticipantI repeat, Extremely efficient Scorer.
Let’s see. Love shot .376 from 3 point land, 190-505 to be exact. This was no anomaly as Love shot .417 and .372 his last two full seasons (not counting the injury marred 2012-13 season where he wore a protective pad on his shooting hand part of the time).
OK lets talk 2 pointers now. Hmmmm………. Love shot .502 on 460-916. Well, maybe that was a fluke? Apparently not, as Love shot .475, .483, .474, and .469 in previous seasons.
Maybe he is inefficient from the free throw line? Nope, not with .821 on 520-633. Previous seasons of .824, .850, .815, and .789.
I don’t know what they call it where you live, but where I live if you have a high usage primary option guy who shoots 37.6 from 3, 50.2 from 2, and 82.1 from the line, they call him an extremely efficient scorer.
I never made any reference in my post to Love’s defense. It would be foolish, and wrong, for me to argue that Love was a good shot blocker, simply because he isn’t…… but that wasn’t my post.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 10:56am #936607
tuck243Participant"Extremely efficient scorer"… Which he is not… He has one of the worst FG% for a PF in the league… 45% is what you would expect out of a SG, not your starting PF…
Also, another thing about Love that I noticed… (I’m watching this seasons games, currently on the 15th game of his)… Love doesn’t attempt to block shots at all… This is the first time I felt like a player was trying to pat his stats… One play in particular…
His teammate got beat off the dribble on the left baseline (if you looking at the hoop from the top of the key)… Kevin was in position to attempt a block shot instead boxed his man out and allowed the dude to take the floater… Looked as if he cleared room for the shot… I like Love, but I think he’s maybe a 19 and 10 player on a better team, he’s a legit second option… I hate the West vs East crap too… We don’t know what he would do in the East… All we know is that he hasn’t played in the playoffs as a first option…
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:51am #936482
bloodshyParticipant"I think Patty Mills and Danny Green are still open." Well played.
I’m not sure if I’d make the Love-Wiggins trade. I can see the down sides that you’ve pointed out, though I think Love would be an amazing option at 4 next to LBJ. On O he’s the perfect fit and I think his D has improved recently, though it’s still not elite by any stretch. Still, giving up someone with even higher upside than Love who we all know will fit well on D and could become elite on O… ouch. It’s definitely a very close and very tough call.
Regardless, I enjoyed your writing and your analysis. You brought up some very legitimate, insightful points. To beat the Spurs LBJ needs a team that can play better team D than the 2014 Heat were capable of. That’s for sure.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:51am #936353
bloodshyParticipant"I think Patty Mills and Danny Green are still open." Well played.
I’m not sure if I’d make the Love-Wiggins trade. I can see the down sides that you’ve pointed out, though I think Love would be an amazing option at 4 next to LBJ. On O he’s the perfect fit and I think his D has improved recently, though it’s still not elite by any stretch. Still, giving up someone with even higher upside than Love who we all know will fit well on D and could become elite on O… ouch. It’s definitely a very close and very tough call.
Regardless, I enjoyed your writing and your analysis. You brought up some very legitimate, insightful points. To beat the Spurs LBJ needs a team that can play better team D than the 2014 Heat were capable of. That’s for sure.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:09am #936488
Ebown5ParticipantThe Problem with comparing Wiggins and Love is that they are at very different stages of their career. Wiggins has the potential to be better than Love, but that is probably 3-5 years away if it ever happens.
Love is already a superstar, and Lebron is 29 and in the prime of his career. Wiggins is so young that he may not be worth waiting for if you want to maximize your chances in the next 3 years.
If I were the Cavs I would not include Wiggins for now and just call their bluff because I don’t think that their will be better deals out there for him. Love can force his way too by saying ahead of time that he will only sign an extension with Cleveland, otherwise he will go into free agency in the summer.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:09am #936358
Ebown5ParticipantThe Problem with comparing Wiggins and Love is that they are at very different stages of their career. Wiggins has the potential to be better than Love, but that is probably 3-5 years away if it ever happens.
Love is already a superstar, and Lebron is 29 and in the prime of his career. Wiggins is so young that he may not be worth waiting for if you want to maximize your chances in the next 3 years.
If I were the Cavs I would not include Wiggins for now and just call their bluff because I don’t think that their will be better deals out there for him. Love can force his way too by saying ahead of time that he will only sign an extension with Cleveland, otherwise he will go into free agency in the summer.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:08am #936486
LeFlopJAMESParticipantCleveland = K Love
Minnesota = D Waiters, T Thompson, M Webster, A Miller
+1 pick 2015,2016 Cleveland
+1 pick 2016 Wizards
Washington = K Martin A BennettThoughts?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:08am #936356
LeFlopJAMESParticipantCleveland = K Love
Minnesota = D Waiters, T Thompson, M Webster, A Miller
+1 pick 2015,2016 Cleveland
+1 pick 2016 Wizards
Washington = K Martin A BennettThoughts?
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 9:24am #936567
phila9012ParticipantIf the Twolves wind up trading Love, I am hoping they just tear it down and try again. This team is going no where if we dont have love. It stinks to have to wait for another rebuild but that is what needs to happen. This trade would be fine with me. If love goes there is no need for Martin so that is good. We get picks and at least solid replacements for Martin and Love. Then hopefully they would trade Pekovic, he is in his prime and getting paid 12 million, they dont really need that on a rebuilding roster. And if Rubio wants anymore than 8 or 9 million trade him. He cant score so anything more is too much. Then they basically have a blank slate from which to build from and if they hit with hopefully a top 5 to 7 pick this year or next year they are on their way to building a consistant contender. The west is at its peak right now so it would be hard to contend anyway so it makes to rebuild so when the teams start falling off the timberwolves will be reaching their peak in 3 to 5 years.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 9:24am #936437
phila9012ParticipantIf the Twolves wind up trading Love, I am hoping they just tear it down and try again. This team is going no where if we dont have love. It stinks to have to wait for another rebuild but that is what needs to happen. This trade would be fine with me. If love goes there is no need for Martin so that is good. We get picks and at least solid replacements for Martin and Love. Then hopefully they would trade Pekovic, he is in his prime and getting paid 12 million, they dont really need that on a rebuilding roster. And if Rubio wants anymore than 8 or 9 million trade him. He cant score so anything more is too much. Then they basically have a blank slate from which to build from and if they hit with hopefully a top 5 to 7 pick this year or next year they are on their way to building a consistant contender. The west is at its peak right now so it would be hard to contend anyway so it makes to rebuild so when the teams start falling off the timberwolves will be reaching their peak in 3 to 5 years.
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- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:12am #936490
LeFlopJAMESParticipantWizs gives away 2014 pick to Phx, so 2015 can’t be traded. Is it wrong?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:12am #936360
LeFlopJAMESParticipantWizs gives away 2014 pick to Phx, so 2015 can’t be traded. Is it wrong?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:43am #936500
Memphis MadnessParticipantThe Cavs should just wait next summer to sign him. What the Cavs lack now is a low post scorer and a shot blocker/low post defender. Well, Kevin Love isn’t really either of those things. If they want a guy to hit 3’s and help out LeBron and Andy V on the boards, then that might be why they are bringing in Mike Miller.
If the Cavs want to win RIGHT NOW then go out and sign veterans who have done that before — Mike Miller, Ray Allen, and Birdman. MM and Ray Allen would give them knock down shooters. Ray can score a bit and MM can rebound a bit. Birdman can rebound, protect the rim, and finish inside.
LeBron is the first option, Kyrie is the second option, and I would let Waiters and Wiggins be their third and fourth options (which should be enough). Then you still have a lot of depth if you sign all those veterans.
If the Cavs play the Spurs in next year’s Finals, then who does Kevin Love guard? Can he guard Tim Duncan. Yeah, I guess he can guard Tiago Splitter but so can Birdman, Andy V, and pretty much any 7 footer. If the Spurs go small with Diaw at the 4 then you put LeBron at the 4 with Wiggins at the 3 with Irving, Waiters, Dellavadova, and Ray Allen (if they sign him) being their guard rotation. … if the Cavs played the Thunder I am not sure that Kevin Love could guard Serge Ibaka. Could you play Love at center if you went small?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 6:43am #936370
Memphis MadnessParticipantThe Cavs should just wait next summer to sign him. What the Cavs lack now is a low post scorer and a shot blocker/low post defender. Well, Kevin Love isn’t really either of those things. If they want a guy to hit 3’s and help out LeBron and Andy V on the boards, then that might be why they are bringing in Mike Miller.
If the Cavs want to win RIGHT NOW then go out and sign veterans who have done that before — Mike Miller, Ray Allen, and Birdman. MM and Ray Allen would give them knock down shooters. Ray can score a bit and MM can rebound a bit. Birdman can rebound, protect the rim, and finish inside.
LeBron is the first option, Kyrie is the second option, and I would let Waiters and Wiggins be their third and fourth options (which should be enough). Then you still have a lot of depth if you sign all those veterans.
If the Cavs play the Spurs in next year’s Finals, then who does Kevin Love guard? Can he guard Tim Duncan. Yeah, I guess he can guard Tiago Splitter but so can Birdman, Andy V, and pretty much any 7 footer. If the Spurs go small with Diaw at the 4 then you put LeBron at the 4 with Wiggins at the 3 with Irving, Waiters, Dellavadova, and Ray Allen (if they sign him) being their guard rotation. … if the Cavs played the Thunder I am not sure that Kevin Love could guard Serge Ibaka. Could you play Love at center if you went small?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 7:25am #936510
Memphis MadnessParticipantThe perfect complements to LeBron and Kyrie are knock down shooters (Mike Miller and Ray Allen. Joe Harris?), a guard who can help score and handle the ball (Waiters), an elite wing who can score, slash, run the break, and defend (Wiggins), a stretch four (Anthony Bennett could be that guy), and interior defenders and rebounders (Andy V… TT?).
Hard to pass up the wing combo of LeBron and Wiggins. Not only scoring and athleticism, but what about the DEFENSE? That is their ace in the hole. Andy V can board and protect the inside. TT can also rebound. Anthony Bennett could turn into a Stretch 4 who can rebound on one side and shoot on the other side. Waiters and Ray Allen/other free agent would give them a bit of everything at the 2.
The Cavs just need some extra help with interior defense (Birdman? Ed Davis?), and possibly another defensive guard (Aaron Craft? Geron Johnson? DeAndre Kane?).
If I were them I would fill out the roster with a couple of veteran shooters (Mike Miller and Ray Allen), an extra paint protector in Birdman, an extra defender at guard (either Aaron Craft from OSU or Geron Johnson from Akron, Ohio), and then I would take a look at the freakishly athletic D.J. Stephens. INCREDIBLE athlete and dunker. Solid defender who can really get up to rebound and block shots. With him on board the Cavs could have 3 incomparable athletic defenders with LeBron, Wiggins, and D.J. Put those three with a defensive, pass-first point guard like Aaron Craft then a shot blocking center like Birdman (who is also still fairly athletic), and watch that team dominate on defense and really get out on the break.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 7:25am #936380
Memphis MadnessParticipantThe perfect complements to LeBron and Kyrie are knock down shooters (Mike Miller and Ray Allen. Joe Harris?), a guard who can help score and handle the ball (Waiters), an elite wing who can score, slash, run the break, and defend (Wiggins), a stretch four (Anthony Bennett could be that guy), and interior defenders and rebounders (Andy V… TT?).
Hard to pass up the wing combo of LeBron and Wiggins. Not only scoring and athleticism, but what about the DEFENSE? That is their ace in the hole. Andy V can board and protect the inside. TT can also rebound. Anthony Bennett could turn into a Stretch 4 who can rebound on one side and shoot on the other side. Waiters and Ray Allen/other free agent would give them a bit of everything at the 2.
The Cavs just need some extra help with interior defense (Birdman? Ed Davis?), and possibly another defensive guard (Aaron Craft? Geron Johnson? DeAndre Kane?).
If I were them I would fill out the roster with a couple of veteran shooters (Mike Miller and Ray Allen), an extra paint protector in Birdman, an extra defender at guard (either Aaron Craft from OSU or Geron Johnson from Akron, Ohio), and then I would take a look at the freakishly athletic D.J. Stephens. INCREDIBLE athlete and dunker. Solid defender who can really get up to rebound and block shots. With him on board the Cavs could have 3 incomparable athletic defenders with LeBron, Wiggins, and D.J. Put those three with a defensive, pass-first point guard like Aaron Craft then a shot blocking center like Birdman (who is also still fairly athletic), and watch that team dominate on defense and really get out on the break.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:09am #936530
BlueLacesParticipantFor those saying they should wait to sign him next summer, how exactly is Cleveland going to do that? They have 0 cap space. While any player would love to play with LeBron, they now have to play with him in Cleveland which is far from him recruiting guys to come down to South Beach. Any team that the Wolves end up dealing Love to will not trade him without an extension in the works. The only way Cleveland will get Kevin Love is if they trade for him and the only way they trade for him is a package built around Wiggins.
I’d rather let Kevin Love walk then trade him for table scraps just because you’re afraid of losing him for nothing.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:09am #936400
BlueLacesParticipantFor those saying they should wait to sign him next summer, how exactly is Cleveland going to do that? They have 0 cap space. While any player would love to play with LeBron, they now have to play with him in Cleveland which is far from him recruiting guys to come down to South Beach. Any team that the Wolves end up dealing Love to will not trade him without an extension in the works. The only way Cleveland will get Kevin Love is if they trade for him and the only way they trade for him is a package built around Wiggins.
I’d rather let Kevin Love walk then trade him for table scraps just because you’re afraid of losing him for nothing.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 11:05am #936481
GrandmamaParticipantSo instead of possibly trading him for Bennett, Waiters, and a couple of picks, you’d rather receive nothing? Lol, sorry but that makes zero sense. Love isn’t resigning, it’s already been stated. If their GM lets him walk for nothing, then he is a complete goon.
I know you Wolves fans have dreams of acquiring Wiggins, but it’s not going to happen. There’s a reason why you guys want so desperately for that to happen, because you’d be getting an amazing return. Doesn’t happen in trades like this. I’m a broken record pointing this out, (see Dwight Howard deal).
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 1:34pm #936529
BlueLacesParticipantI would rather trade Love to Golden State for Lee, Barnes and a first if we’re gonna settle then take that garbage from Cleveland. Anthony Bennett was a number 1 pick only because Cleveland surprised everyone and took him. Dion Waiters is nothing but a chucker who Cleveland also reached for in the draft. Bennett and Waiters don’t carry value with the rest of the league. If I’m the Wolves, I’d rather develop Lavine and Muhammed and hope one of them pans out. The Wolves have other trades they can do with Love if their just going to settle before taking the one from Cleveland. Which brings me back to my initial point. If Cleveland wants Love, they are going to have to part with Wiggins.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 1:34pm #936659
BlueLacesParticipantI would rather trade Love to Golden State for Lee, Barnes and a first if we’re gonna settle then take that garbage from Cleveland. Anthony Bennett was a number 1 pick only because Cleveland surprised everyone and took him. Dion Waiters is nothing but a chucker who Cleveland also reached for in the draft. Bennett and Waiters don’t carry value with the rest of the league. If I’m the Wolves, I’d rather develop Lavine and Muhammed and hope one of them pans out. The Wolves have other trades they can do with Love if their just going to settle before taking the one from Cleveland. Which brings me back to my initial point. If Cleveland wants Love, they are going to have to part with Wiggins.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:27pm #936541
BlueLacesParticipantAlso, Dwight Howard publicly demanded a trade and said he only wanted to go to Brooklyn or LA. That kind of limits where you can send a guy. Kevin Love hasn’t done that.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:27pm #936671
BlueLacesParticipantAlso, Dwight Howard publicly demanded a trade and said he only wanted to go to Brooklyn or LA. That kind of limits where you can send a guy. Kevin Love hasn’t done that.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:38pm #936711
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantThis has been discussed ad nauseum here in MN. That Flip would rather have nothing than contracts he doesn’t want. Unless you’re providing picks that are projected to be early picks, which Cleveland doesn’t have, he has no interest in taking contracts that have negative value, like Bennett, who unless he shows huge potential this season will probably be the first #1 pick to have his option declined. So he would be looked at as an expiring at the end of the 2015-16 season – negative value. The role Waiters would fill is the same role they just drafted Lavine to occupy and he makes $2M more a season – negative value – unless Cleveland can move Waiters to a team for a player MN covets – highly unlikely.
The problem is Flip thinks MN will attract Free Agents – why cap room would be more important to him than taking players he doesn’t want0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:38pm #936580
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantThis has been discussed ad nauseum here in MN. That Flip would rather have nothing than contracts he doesn’t want. Unless you’re providing picks that are projected to be early picks, which Cleveland doesn’t have, he has no interest in taking contracts that have negative value, like Bennett, who unless he shows huge potential this season will probably be the first #1 pick to have his option declined. So he would be looked at as an expiring at the end of the 2015-16 season – negative value. The role Waiters would fill is the same role they just drafted Lavine to occupy and he makes $2M more a season – negative value – unless Cleveland can move Waiters to a team for a player MN covets – highly unlikely.
The problem is Flip thinks MN will attract Free Agents – why cap room would be more important to him than taking players he doesn’t want0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:55pm #936720
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantVucevic
Harkless
Elfrid Payton
Afflalo
Two Second Round Picks
Future 1st from the Lakers
Future 1st from the SixersShit, I’d rather have that than those scrubs Cleveland is offering.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:55pm #936590
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantVucevic
Harkless
Elfrid Payton
Afflalo
Two Second Round Picks
Future 1st from the Lakers
Future 1st from the SixersShit, I’d rather have that than those scrubs Cleveland is offering.
0
- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 11:05am #936611
GrandmamaParticipantSo instead of possibly trading him for Bennett, Waiters, and a couple of picks, you’d rather receive nothing? Lol, sorry but that makes zero sense. Love isn’t resigning, it’s already been stated. If their GM lets him walk for nothing, then he is a complete goon.
I know you Wolves fans have dreams of acquiring Wiggins, but it’s not going to happen. There’s a reason why you guys want so desperately for that to happen, because you’d be getting an amazing return. Doesn’t happen in trades like this. I’m a broken record pointing this out, (see Dwight Howard deal).
0
- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:23am #936542
aztwulfParticipantHere is my reasoning. Nobody knows how good Wiggins is going to be. He might be disappointing, he might be a solid starter, he might be an All-Star. But, at this point, nobody really knows. What we do know is that Kevin Love is one of the top 10 (maybe top 6) players in the NBA, is healthy, motivated, and just entering his prime. What are the chances that Wiggins reaches that level? Forty percent would be my guess, but as I said earlier, nobody knows.
LeBron is a freak, and of course I mean that in the best possible way. But LeBron is also 30 years old and has a lot of NBA minutes under his belt, and more importantly on his knees. How much longer do you think LeBron can play at this level? My guess would be that the decline has already started.
How many rookies are ready to make a big impact right out of the gate? Not very many. If LeBron only has a couple of years of beasting, do you want to waste those years waiting while Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and more importantly Wiggins, figure things out so that they can contribute? The window of opportunity doesn’t open very often, and when it does it generally doesn’t open very wide. Cleveland has a rare opportunity to secure the services of one of the NBA’s best offensive players, and a stud rebounder, at a discount.
If I were Cleveland’s management and I had this opportunity, I would trade Wiggins for Love in a heartbeat. The odds that Wiggins is going to some day reach Love’s current level of excellence is fairly small. Love is there now. LeBron isn’t getting any younger.
Wiggins, and one of the three of Thompson, Wiggins, and Waiters, plus a first or two would get it done. Cleveland could get Love and probably Ronny Turiaf, who is an excellent interior defender on a cheap contract.
I highly doubt that Cleveland will be in the running for Love as a free agent as I do not think they will have the requisite cap space, but Love probably gets traded to GS, Houston, or Phoenix before that happens.
Cleveland, as currently constructed, cannot match up to the Western powerhouses, and almost certainly is not even the best team in the East.
Just my opinion, of course.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:23am #936413
aztwulfParticipantHere is my reasoning. Nobody knows how good Wiggins is going to be. He might be disappointing, he might be a solid starter, he might be an All-Star. But, at this point, nobody really knows. What we do know is that Kevin Love is one of the top 10 (maybe top 6) players in the NBA, is healthy, motivated, and just entering his prime. What are the chances that Wiggins reaches that level? Forty percent would be my guess, but as I said earlier, nobody knows.
LeBron is a freak, and of course I mean that in the best possible way. But LeBron is also 30 years old and has a lot of NBA minutes under his belt, and more importantly on his knees. How much longer do you think LeBron can play at this level? My guess would be that the decline has already started.
How many rookies are ready to make a big impact right out of the gate? Not very many. If LeBron only has a couple of years of beasting, do you want to waste those years waiting while Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and more importantly Wiggins, figure things out so that they can contribute? The window of opportunity doesn’t open very often, and when it does it generally doesn’t open very wide. Cleveland has a rare opportunity to secure the services of one of the NBA’s best offensive players, and a stud rebounder, at a discount.
If I were Cleveland’s management and I had this opportunity, I would trade Wiggins for Love in a heartbeat. The odds that Wiggins is going to some day reach Love’s current level of excellence is fairly small. Love is there now. LeBron isn’t getting any younger.
Wiggins, and one of the three of Thompson, Wiggins, and Waiters, plus a first or two would get it done. Cleveland could get Love and probably Ronny Turiaf, who is an excellent interior defender on a cheap contract.
I highly doubt that Cleveland will be in the running for Love as a free agent as I do not think they will have the requisite cap space, but Love probably gets traded to GS, Houston, or Phoenix before that happens.
Cleveland, as currently constructed, cannot match up to the Western powerhouses, and almost certainly is not even the best team in the East.
Just my opinion, of course.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:23am #936544
jonus grumbyParticipantWhile Wiggins has the potential to be great the only championship that Cleveland can win in 2015 is next years championship. What I am saying is that a team can not always look toward the future and hope that things work out so they can win in 3 or 4 years. When a team that has never won a championship has one in their sights they need to go for it in the year that it is in their sights. Love has said he would resign in Cleveland so they are still set up for a multi year run but focused on 2015. I say make the trade.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 8:23am #936415
jonus grumbyParticipantWhile Wiggins has the potential to be great the only championship that Cleveland can win in 2015 is next years championship. What I am saying is that a team can not always look toward the future and hope that things work out so they can win in 3 or 4 years. When a team that has never won a championship has one in their sights they need to go for it in the year that it is in their sights. Love has said he would resign in Cleveland so they are still set up for a multi year run but focused on 2015. I say make the trade.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 1:16pm #936521
WITNESS2014ParticipantI really feel like the Cavs just need an athletic shot blocking center and they will have a complete team. They have enough scorers and people to space the floor out for Lebron. Scoring wont be an issue for this team.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 1:16pm #936650
WITNESS2014ParticipantI really feel like the Cavs just need an athletic shot blocking center and they will have a complete team. They have enough scorers and people to space the floor out for Lebron. Scoring wont be an issue for this team.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:51pm #936554
burgessfourParticipantWiggins for Love deal straight up – no other pieces involved ?
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:11pm #936572
rileymcshea3ParticipantI’m pretty sure the Timberwolves said that Kevin Martin is going with a Kevin Love so they can lose his contract. If I’m Cleveland I’m asking for Dieng if I have to give up Wiggins. Dieng would be a great shot blocking big off the bench would fit Kyrie, LeBron and Love at all times.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 4:45pm #936736
aztwulfParticipantTuriaf is the better center right now. Gorgui may end up being better, but Turiaf is a strong defender and an A+ locker room presence.
Gorgui got most of his blocks in a help defense role. Gorgui struggled when tasked with defending his man. I would imagine including either Ronny or Dieng in any deal would not be an impediment as long as the right players were included from the other side.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 4:45pm #936606
aztwulfParticipantTuriaf is the better center right now. Gorgui may end up being better, but Turiaf is a strong defender and an A+ locker room presence.
Gorgui got most of his blocks in a help defense role. Gorgui struggled when tasked with defending his man. I would imagine including either Ronny or Dieng in any deal would not be an impediment as long as the right players were included from the other side.
0- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:35pm #936748
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantChad Ford: I seriously doubt the Wolves trade Dieng, they LOVE him.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:35pm #936618
AlvinRobertsonsQuadrupleDoubleParticipantChad Ford: I seriously doubt the Wolves trade Dieng, they LOVE him.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/16/2014 - 2:21am #936706
aztwulfParticipantI don’t disagree with your comment (actually Ford’s comment) that the Wolves love Gorgui. I am sure they do as he was a major surprise on the upside last year. But, I still think they would include Gorgui in a deal IF the other team demanded it, AND IF the Wolves were getting back what the Wolves wanted.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/16/2014 - 2:21am #936836
aztwulfParticipantI don’t disagree with your comment (actually Ford’s comment) that the Wolves love Gorgui. I am sure they do as he was a major surprise on the upside last year. But, I still think they would include Gorgui in a deal IF the other team demanded it, AND IF the Wolves were getting back what the Wolves wanted.
0
- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 3:11pm #936703
rileymcshea3ParticipantI’m pretty sure the Timberwolves said that Kevin Martin is going with a Kevin Love so they can lose his contract. If I’m Cleveland I’m asking for Dieng if I have to give up Wiggins. Dieng would be a great shot blocking big off the bench would fit Kyrie, LeBron and Love at all times.
0
- Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 2:51pm #936685
burgessfourParticipantWiggins for Love deal straight up – no other pieces involved ?
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:38pm #936750
OhCanada-ParticipantI wouldnt do it simply because Love is a free agent next year.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 07/15/2014 - 5:38pm #936620
OhCanada-ParticipantI wouldnt do it simply because Love is a free agent next year.
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