why to build around a big

 Actually Horace Grant was an All-Star and was all defensive team 4 times. He reminds me of someone like Al Horford. He averaged 14 pts, and 10 rebounds, and 3 assists, and 1.3 blks, during the first three championship runs by the bulls.(He played third fiddle to Jordan and Pippen and did a lot of dirty work) He was a very underrated player during the Bulls championship run.

 Actually Horace Grant was an All-Star and was all defensive team 4 times. He reminds me of someone like Al Horford. He averaged 14 pts, and 10 rebounds, and 3 assists, and 1.3 blks, during the first three championship runs by the bulls.(He played third fiddle to Jordan and Pippen and did a lot of dirty work) He was a very underrated player during the Bulls championship run.

 Since illegal defense is no more there has been a shift in powers from big men…  Now big men need to be mostly athletic or shoot to keep up with the new NBA…  You no longer have back to the basket centers as much now, because he can just crowd them down low and force them to get rid of the ball…  They have been stripped to role players or jump shooters…  

Look at the last 10 years since the rule change…  Tim Duncan and Dirk are the only big men that have been Finals MVP’s…  Dirk was able to spread the floor, while Duncan was a force for one of the worst ratings in NBA history…  They decided to add the 8 second back court after that…  The NBA is ran by PG and swing men now…  

I think it’s important to have a big man that can protect the bucket and you can go to when needed in the playoffs.  But it’s impossible with this group of big men to have someone who’s athletic enough to block shots, rebound, AND to be deadly enough to spread the floor.   When the NBA get’s that (he will probably be the best player in NBA history) that’s when you’ll see building around a big man make sense again…  

If you think I’m lying… Go look at Shaq’s numbers before the rules change and how it dramatically declined the year of…  That’s no coincedence…  Mark Cuban cried for that to be done because the Lakers were too dominant…

 Since illegal defense is no more there has been a shift in powers from big men…  Now big men need to be mostly athletic or shoot to keep up with the new NBA…  You no longer have back to the basket centers as much now, because he can just crowd them down low and force them to get rid of the ball…  They have been stripped to role players or jump shooters…  

Look at the last 10 years since the rule change…  Tim Duncan and Dirk are the only big men that have been Finals MVP’s…  Dirk was able to spread the floor, while Duncan was a force for one of the worst ratings in NBA history…  They decided to add the 8 second back court after that…  The NBA is ran by PG and swing men now…  

I think it’s important to have a big man that can protect the bucket and you can go to when needed in the playoffs.  But it’s impossible with this group of big men to have someone who’s athletic enough to block shots, rebound, AND to be deadly enough to spread the floor.   When the NBA get’s that (he will probably be the best player in NBA history) that’s when you’ll see building around a big man make sense again…  

If you think I’m lying… Go look at Shaq’s numbers before the rules change and how it dramatically declined the year of…  That’s no coincedence…  Mark Cuban cried for that to be done because the Lakers were too dominant…

Bosh might be big, but he is by no means a traditional big man; the Heat are basically a copy of MJ’s Bulls in the sense both rely on two wing players (Jordan/Pippen – James/Wade) to be their best player, while having a very good PF who is the backbone of their defense. 

To respond to you overall point; that might be true, but it also holds the otherway around. You need (especially these days) a dominant wing player that can go one-on-one, shoot threes from isolation plays, and take over the game when necessary. I believe most teams in history had both an above-average big man AND an above-average wing player/point guard. 

Bosh might be big, but he is by no means a traditional big man; the Heat are basically a copy of MJ’s Bulls in the sense both rely on two wing players (Jordan/Pippen – James/Wade) to be their best player, while having a very good PF who is the backbone of their defense. 

To respond to you overall point; that might be true, but it also holds the otherway around. You need (especially these days) a dominant wing player that can go one-on-one, shoot threes from isolation plays, and take over the game when necessary. I believe most teams in history had both an above-average big man AND an above-average wing player/point guard. 

 There is no championship recipe. People who say that you have to have a great big man can be pointed towards one of the greatest dynasties of modern basketball, or the Miami Heat. People who say that you have to have a great wing player can look at the San Antonio Spurs. What you need to win championship.. get this, its pretty mind blowing.. is a good team. Not neccessarily great players(see; 2004 Pistons), but a great unit. The best team will come out on top, despite where their best players are positioned.

 There is no championship recipe. People who say that you have to have a great big man can be pointed towards one of the greatest dynasties of modern basketball, or the Miami Heat. People who say that you have to have a great wing player can look at the San Antonio Spurs. What you need to win championship.. get this, its pretty mind blowing.. is a good team. Not neccessarily great players(see; 2004 Pistons), but a great unit. The best team will come out on top, despite where their best players are positioned.

Interesting OP. One thing I love to point out to those that question the historical value of centers is that I ask them to name their top 12 centers all time and then I ask them to name their top SGs all time.

For example you’ll usually get something kind of like this (obviously you can come up with a slightly different group of players but the trend seems to hold):

C – Chamberlain, Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, O’Neal, Olajuwon, Robinson, Malone, Ewing, Mikan, Walton, Reed, Cowens

SG – MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, Gervin, Drexler, Iverson, Maravich, Allen, Greer, Jones, Miller

Now out of those centers 11 out of 12 of them won a championship, 9 out of the 12 won multiple championships.

Out of those shooting guards 8 out of the 12 won championships and 4 out of 12 won multiple championships (substituting Earl Monroe or Joe Dumars for a couple of other guys changes that to 10 and 5 respectively).

Out of those centers, 6 out of 9 drafted went #1. Three of them Mikan, Chamberlain and Malone had extenuating circumstances but both Mikan and Chamberlain would have almost undoubtedly went #1 had there been a draft in 1948 for Mikan and had Chamberlain not been taken with a territorial selection. Russell was taken #2, Cowens #4 and Reed #8.

Out of those shooting guards, only 1 of them went #1 (Iverson). 3 others were selected with the second or third pick (MJ, West and Maravich). 5 of them (Drexler, Kobe, Gervin, Greer and Miller) were drafted after the top 10.

Historically great centers seem to be a safer bet for winning multiple championships (albeit it’s not an overwhelming advantage and the sample size is relatively small).

But one trend that seems to hold, even now, is that if you want a great center you have to be willing to select them with a very high selection, you’re not going to stumble on them later in the draft. Great shooting guards however you can find without a pick in the top 3 (or sometimes even in the top 10).

Interesting OP. One thing I love to point out to those that question the historical value of centers is that I ask them to name their top 12 centers all time and then I ask them to name their top SGs all time.

For example you’ll usually get something kind of like this (obviously you can come up with a slightly different group of players but the trend seems to hold):

C – Chamberlain, Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, O’Neal, Olajuwon, Robinson, Malone, Ewing, Mikan, Walton, Reed, Cowens

SG – MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, Gervin, Drexler, Iverson, Maravich, Allen, Greer, Jones, Miller

Now out of those centers 11 out of 12 of them won a championship, 9 out of the 12 won multiple championships.

Out of those shooting guards 8 out of the 12 won championships and 4 out of 12 won multiple championships (substituting Earl Monroe or Joe Dumars for a couple of other guys changes that to 10 and 5 respectively).

Out of those centers, 6 out of 9 drafted went #1. Three of them Mikan, Chamberlain and Malone had extenuating circumstances but both Mikan and Chamberlain would have almost undoubtedly went #1 had there been a draft in 1948 for Mikan and had Chamberlain not been taken with a territorial selection. Russell was taken #2, Cowens #4 and Reed #8.

Out of those shooting guards, only 1 of them went #1 (Iverson). 3 others were selected with the second or third pick (MJ, West and Maravich). 5 of them (Drexler, Kobe, Gervin, Greer and Miller) were drafted after the top 10.

Historically great centers seem to be a safer bet for winning multiple championships (albeit it’s not an overwhelming advantage and the sample size is relatively small).

But one trend that seems to hold, even now, is that if you want a great center you have to be willing to select them with a very high selection, you’re not going to stumble on them later in the draft. Great shooting guards however you can find without a pick in the top 3 (or sometimes even in the top 10).

Today, you might need a 7 foot power forward. 

Tim Duncan has five rings as a 7 foot power forward.  Dirk has one ring.  Pau has two.  Kevin Garnett has another one.

So, a team with a 7 foot power forward has won 9 rings since 1999.  Before that, I can’t really think of any team with a star 7 foot power forward…

That also goes with saying that the league is changing.  Versatility is more important, but you still need SIZE.

Guys who didn’t quite make the cut include some really good, all-around 6’10 power forwards who could shoot: Bosh with two rings, Rasheed Wallace with one, and Robert Horry with 7 rings from 1994 to 2007.  Ok, then you had Shane Battier on a couple of Heat title teams coming off the bench. 

You could probably make a further generalization that oversized guys for their positions tend to win more.  George Mikan in the prehistoric NBA.  Then you had Wilt.  Oscar Robertson at point guard.  Magic at point guard, with those last two guards lucky enough to play with the 7’2 Kareem.  Jordan as a 6’6 shooting guard (with the 6’7 Scottie Pippen playing small forward and handling the ball).  Bird as a 6’9 small forward.  LeBron as a bruising 6’9 point forward.  Those 7 foot power forwards that I just mentioned.  Next up you can make a case for the Thunder which has a 6’3 dynamo point guard in Russell Westbrook and a 6’10 freak named Kevin Durant at small forward. 

This should be a good omen for the Sixers.  They have a 6’6 point guard in MCW with a LONG 6’11 center in Nerlens Noel.  If Joel Embiid can fit in as a 7 foot power forward then they have a legit big man inside, with two oversized guys in their rotation.  They will also bring over a 6’10 combo forward in Dario Saric. 

Today, you might need a 7 foot power forward. 

Tim Duncan has five rings as a 7 foot power forward.  Dirk has one ring.  Pau has two.  Kevin Garnett has another one.

So, a team with a 7 foot power forward has won 9 rings since 1999.  Before that, I can’t really think of any team with a star 7 foot power forward…

That also goes with saying that the league is changing.  Versatility is more important, but you still need SIZE.

Guys who didn’t quite make the cut include some really good, all-around 6’10 power forwards who could shoot: Bosh with two rings, Rasheed Wallace with one, and Robert Horry with 7 rings from 1994 to 2007.  Ok, then you had Shane Battier on a couple of Heat title teams coming off the bench. 

You could probably make a further generalization that oversized guys for their positions tend to win more.  George Mikan in the prehistoric NBA.  Then you had Wilt.  Oscar Robertson at point guard.  Magic at point guard, with those last two guards lucky enough to play with the 7’2 Kareem.  Jordan as a 6’6 shooting guard (with the 6’7 Scottie Pippen playing small forward and handling the ball).  Bird as a 6’9 small forward.  LeBron as a bruising 6’9 point forward.  Those 7 foot power forwards that I just mentioned.  Next up you can make a case for the Thunder which has a 6’3 dynamo point guard in Russell Westbrook and a 6’10 freak named Kevin Durant at small forward. 

This should be a good omen for the Sixers.  They have a 6’6 point guard in MCW with a LONG 6’11 center in Nerlens Noel.  If Joel Embiid can fit in as a 7 foot power forward then they have a legit big man inside, with two oversized guys in their rotation.  They will also bring over a 6’10 combo forward in Dario Saric. 

A team should build with skilled big men at the center of their structure because good big men are the easiest ways to create mismatches. The abundance of good wings, combined with the possibility of smaller quicker players or bigger longer players being utilized to attack their weaknesses, makes building around smaller players much riskier. As of last season, no small team was going to beat the Heat. OKC is a nice team, but Tim Duncan and Boris Diaw combined for 31, 15, and 5 while playing a combined 57 minutes per game. The Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol duo combined for nearly 35, 15, and 7. Steven Adams was able to shut down Zach Randolph in Game 7 by getting punched in Game 6, but that probably should not be part of the gameplan. If a team does not have quality size, they can make good players impact those games in the same way a star does. Guys like Michael Jordan and LeBron James come around once in a generation. Good big men are rare, but not that rare.

This is not to say any old black hole big man can be a centerpiece. Spacing matters. Passing matters. Fitting players together to maximize strengths and cover for flaws matter. Defense is hugely important. Big men carry a great deal of value on that end, and defensive effectiveness is not well quantified. You can see it when a team plays it well, and you can see when an individual defender is making a player work or frustrating an opponent, but the holes in the metrics are canyons.

A team should build with skilled big men at the center of their structure because good big men are the easiest ways to create mismatches. The abundance of good wings, combined with the possibility of smaller quicker players or bigger longer players being utilized to attack their weaknesses, makes building around smaller players much riskier. As of last season, no small team was going to beat the Heat. OKC is a nice team, but Tim Duncan and Boris Diaw combined for 31, 15, and 5 while playing a combined 57 minutes per game. The Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol duo combined for nearly 35, 15, and 7. Steven Adams was able to shut down Zach Randolph in Game 7 by getting punched in Game 6, but that probably should not be part of the gameplan. If a team does not have quality size, they can make good players impact those games in the same way a star does. Guys like Michael Jordan and LeBron James come around once in a generation. Good big men are rare, but not that rare.

This is not to say any old black hole big man can be a centerpiece. Spacing matters. Passing matters. Fitting players together to maximize strengths and cover for flaws matter. Defense is hugely important. Big men carry a great deal of value on that end, and defensive effectiveness is not well quantified. You can see it when a team plays it well, and you can see when an individual defender is making a player work or frustrating an opponent, but the holes in the metrics are canyons.

Technically, the 1988-89 Pistons didn’t have an All-Star big man. Bill Lambier didn’t make the team that year and Rodman’s first All-Star birth didn’t come until 1990 when he replaced Rick Mahorn as a full time starter. He played a high minute reserve role for the Bad Boys’ first title. 

Still, there was a great deal of research involved in this piece, and it brings up a point I overall agree with. Today’s game has evolved without the post player because of necessity. There just aren’t that many elite guys, all the elite big men of the past had mid range games and would kill it in today’s game. Shooting numbers aren’t available from the 1990’s, but at 35 years old David Robinson shot 408% from 10-16 feet. .412 is Lamarcus Aldridge’s career mark, to put that into perspective. Chris Bosh’s career mark is 41%.

It’s not just having a big man, it’s having a guy who’s smart, skilled, mobile AND big. The centers of the late 80’s and 90’s weren’t just good because they were 7 feet tall. They were high IQ guys with mid range games, back to the basket moves, and rim protection ability. Same can be said about Kareem, who’s from a generation before, but I bet he shot his sky hook at a higher percentage than a lot of today’s C’s can hit jump shots.

Technically, the 1988-89 Pistons didn’t have an All-Star big man. Bill Lambier didn’t make the team that year and Rodman’s first All-Star birth didn’t come until 1990 when he replaced Rick Mahorn as a full time starter. He played a high minute reserve role for the Bad Boys’ first title. 

Still, there was a great deal of research involved in this piece, and it brings up a point I overall agree with. Today’s game has evolved without the post player because of necessity. There just aren’t that many elite guys, all the elite big men of the past had mid range games and would kill it in today’s game. Shooting numbers aren’t available from the 1990’s, but at 35 years old David Robinson shot 408% from 10-16 feet. .412 is Lamarcus Aldridge’s career mark, to put that into perspective. Chris Bosh’s career mark is 41%.

It’s not just having a big man, it’s having a guy who’s smart, skilled, mobile AND big. The centers of the late 80’s and 90’s weren’t just good because they were 7 feet tall. They were high IQ guys with mid range games, back to the basket moves, and rim protection ability. Same can be said about Kareem, who’s from a generation before, but I bet he shot his sky hook at a higher percentage than a lot of today’s C’s can hit jump shots.