This topic contains 14 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar thunderjerk 11 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #56969
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    Hazel
    Participant

     Since Stockton retired we have had a handful of high draft picks.  In each of those drafts, I came away wondering if they had picked the right guy.  It always seemed like they left someong with maybe a little more upside or a little better fit on the table.

    Deron Williams–left Chris Paul

    Gordon Hayward–Paul George

    Enes Kanter–Valenciunas

    Alex Burks–Kawaii Leonard (Better fit next to Gordon)

    Trey Burke–MCW,  Schroader

    All of these guys were solid picks, but many people thought that the one they left would have been a better pick.  Including me. As it turns out, that may have been true in every case.  

    This time, Smart would have been the usual Jazz pick and Exum is the high-upside guy.  Add to that the consensus that Hood was the BPA and has upside that could be in the Rashard Lewis Danny Granger area, and things look promising.  

    That is why I am so excited.  For the first time possibly ever the Jazz at least have a player with enough talent to give them a chance at a franchise player who can dominate his position. Combine that with A+ character for both guys and that makes this my favorite draft class in a decade.  

    I am really excited to see Exum in summer league.  In the summer he will be given ample opportunity to really shine (or struggle, right Trey?).  

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  • #930146
    AvatarAvatar
    Hazel
    Participant

    Someone 

    First time since Stockton and Malone. 

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  • #930013
    AvatarAvatar
    Hazel
    Participant

    Someone 

    First time since Stockton and Malone. 

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  • #930176
    festar35festar35
    festar35
    Participant

    I have felt the same way about Indiana until we took a risk on Paul George.

    We always went for the same safe bets like Tyler Hansbrough and Brandon Rush with guys with more potential left sitting on the board. Not a lot of Pacers fans like the George selection, I loved it and viewed as Larry finally not settling for players with good college tenure etc.

    Granted since then he has gone backwards by getting Hill with guys like Hardaway Jr still available.

    I do love the Exum pick based solely on his potential and I have a good feeling that Utah will get his development right. Burke looked good and he was a bit of a project I think they could turn Exum into a great player at either guard spot.

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  • #930043
    festar35festar35
    festar35
    Participant

    I have felt the same way about Indiana until we took a risk on Paul George.

    We always went for the same safe bets like Tyler Hansbrough and Brandon Rush with guys with more potential left sitting on the board. Not a lot of Pacers fans like the George selection, I loved it and viewed as Larry finally not settling for players with good college tenure etc.

    Granted since then he has gone backwards by getting Hill with guys like Hardaway Jr still available.

    I do love the Exum pick based solely on his potential and I have a good feeling that Utah will get his development right. Burke looked good and he was a bit of a project I think they could turn Exum into a great player at either guard spot.

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  • #930051
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    thetrademachinery
    Participant

     i think that Smart will be the star and once again it is asked how did Utah select Exum over Smart?

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  • #930184
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    thetrademachinery
    Participant

     i think that Smart will be the star and once again it is asked how did Utah select Exum over Smart?

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  • #930053
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    SwatLakeCity
    Participant

    Okay I don’t think you are a Jazz fan like I am, but I respect your opinion. There’s one main reason why the Jazz selected those players. The Jazz are in a small market, so in order to get players to stay on their team past their rookie contracts and ultimately become players that are worth the selection in the end they have to not only select players based on their college season and physical play, but also because their personality fits the organization to a T.

    I’m not going to state why the Jazz picked Deron Williams over Chris Paul in 2005 because I actually agree with you there. (Although for awhile I didn’t. It was only until recently, 2010, that I actually thought that Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul) I’ll only say this on that draft selection. Jazz could have selected either player and they would not have gone wrong either way. 

    Gordon Hayward, I believe was picked over Paul George because he came from a small school Butler University. And so the Jazz thought that because of that he might stay in Utah longer than his rookie contract. We’ll see if that "judgement" is true or not this offseason if he ends up spurning the Jazz for some other team and leaves. But I think the Jazz will match his inevitable offer. (Sorry Celtics) Although I agree I do wonder why the Jazz didn’t select Paul George instead. I think he too would have stayed in Utah past his rookie contract. It was probably a reason very similar to the Deron Williams over Chris Paul decision in 2005.

    Enes Kanter over Jonas Valanciunas: On a basketball standpoint I agree with you to an extent. Valanciunas definitely is the better player than Kanter right now. I am not a fan of Kanter (unlike my username suggests). But I do understand the pick from a personnel standpoint. The Jazz at that time had just barely gotten Derrick Favors in a trade with the Nets (then in New Jersey) for Deron Williams. They also got Devin Harris, this lottery pick (Kanter not Exum) and a first round draft pick in 2013 that was previously awarded to the Nets from the Warriors in the Marcus Williams trade. (that pick ended up being the 21st) Favors is a big man who is a banger. They wanted to find someone who would fit well next to him and compliment Favors’ weaknesses. In other words they wanted a bigman who could shoot the 3 or at least the outside shot well as well as operate inside the post. You have to admit Kanter is definitely more of an offensive player than Valanciunas is and actually plays a bit more like Nikola Pekovic or Mehmet Okur. So from that standpoint Kanter is the better pick over Valanciunas. Also Kanter was picked because of his personality. Even though the Favors and Kanter duo did not work this year, Kanter does think his style of play fits well with Favors. And he does like him. There is no dislike between Kanter and Favors. So we’ll see this coming year if the duo does indeed work from a basketball standpoint. For his sake I think that it will.

    Alec Burks was picked over Kawhi Leonard because the Jazz actually thought at the time that Gordon Hayward was a 3 and not a 2, like you obviously think. If Gordon Hayward is a 2, then I admit Kawhi Leonard would be a great fit next to him. From that standpoint Alec Burks was probably the best player available on the board and a perfect fit for the Jazz! (I also think that technically Hayward is a 3. And I think that is the position he will be asked to play this coming year.) That year I wanted Burks all along to go to the Jazz. I really liked the way he played for Colorado. I was a big fan of the Big 12 that year solely to watch him play. Loved him as a player. But I had a bad feeling and thought that he would not be drafted by the Jazz because I, like you, thought the Jazz unfortunately never seemed to get the players they needed. But ever since that selection, I now think that the Jazz will get every player that they need as long as that player could respectfully be on the board by the time they are on the clock.

    Trey was picked over MCW and Shroeder for the same reason. Trey has an uncanny personality that Jazz fans (myself included) and the Jazz organization loves. MCW came from Syracuse. That’s a big school, he might want to see greener and winninger (is that a word? I don’t think so, but I think you get my point) pastures after his rookie contract is up. And have you seen Shroeder’s hair do? If so, it definitely does not look like a "Jazz haircut." I don’t know if there is such a thing as a "Jazz haircut" (and I don’t think there is, but I think you get my point considering that Salt Lake City is mostly populated by Mormons. And that is definitely not a "Mormon haircut.")  I don’t think this was the reason why the Jazz drafted Trey Burke over Shroeder that year, but that’s why I didn’t want him on my Jazz. And I was so happy the Jazz didn’t get him for that reason. I think the real reason why is because the Jazz did bring him in for a workout that year, and they must have came away thinking "Nope, he definitely won’t be our pick." And probably for a darn good reason. I think he will opt out for greener and most definitely winninger pastures after his rookie contract is up too. And technically you can’t discredit the Jazz for selecting Burke or Shroeder because neither player has fully developed yet. I definitely think that Burke was the right choice in the end over both MCW and Shroeder.

    The "real" reason why Exum and Hood were selected this year was for that same reason. Their personalities matches the Jazz organization perfectly. There is just something about Exum’s demeanor that gives you the notion that he will stay with the Jazz past his rookie contract. (Have you noticed that he does not have one tattoo on his body? Now that’s something that I love about him, but it definitely is an uncommon thing in today’s NBA.) I also think that Hood is very similar to Hayward in that both are deceptively athletic and can defend decentlly. Both players are not known for their defense but you have to admit they do defend decently. But both are more known for their jumpshooting. So I think the Jazz also selected Hood knowing that even though they want to bring back Hayward this offseason they might not be able to bring him back. They wanted a player that plays at least somewhat similar to Hayward. And you have to admit Hood is similar to Hayward in their playing styles. So they selected him thinking that he would help the Jazz survive if they do lose Hayward in the end. I also think Exum was picked because he is big for a point guard and can play both guard positions very well! He is 6’6 so if he does play SG (Which I think he will at first) the Jazz won’t be hurt by a size disadvantage. The Jazz love players who are versatile and that’s exactly what Exum is. The Jazz do not look at versatility as a bad thing. They look at it as a strength. (I also think the Jazz think there is no such thing as a tweener in the NBA. They know what it means, but they think it is a good thing not a bad thing. It shows that they are versatile, but that’s an argument for another day.) I think they believe that Burks is better coming off the bench instead of in the starting lineup. So from that viewpoint they did have a huge hole at the 2 guard in the starting lineup. And they filled it wonderfully by selecting Dante Exum.

    Now I think that Hayward will stay with the Jazz, and they will happily accept his offer as they have a ton of caproom to do so this offseason. So I think that Hood will end up coming off the bench to backup Hayward and he will do so marvelously. I think he will become a key bench player for the Jazz going forward.

    If you are in fact a Jazz fan, then I am definitely sorry if I placed any judgement on you. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Jazz aced their draft this year. But I also think the Jazz aced their draft in 2010, 2011, and 2013. And I think you needed to hear the main reason why the Jazz select the players they do.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    • #930319
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      thparadox
      Participant

      "The Jazz are in a small market, so in order to get players to stay on their team past their rookie contracts and ultimately become players that are worth the selection in the end they have to not only select players based on their college season and physical play, but also because their personality fits the organization to a T."


      –> this is bogus. If you’re a small market team that has trouble attracting free agents, you need to go upside so that you can get a superstar through the draft, which is less likely to happen through free agency.

      If you look at the upside players, they had good personalities as well… it wasn’t like passing on a JR Smith type.

      It’s funny, this is the first year that I agree that Exum’s personality fits better with the Jazz than Smart’s.

       

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    • #930185
      AvatarAvatar
      thparadox
      Participant

      "The Jazz are in a small market, so in order to get players to stay on their team past their rookie contracts and ultimately become players that are worth the selection in the end they have to not only select players based on their college season and physical play, but also because their personality fits the organization to a T."


      –> this is bogus. If you’re a small market team that has trouble attracting free agents, you need to go upside so that you can get a superstar through the draft, which is less likely to happen through free agency.

      If you look at the upside players, they had good personalities as well… it wasn’t like passing on a JR Smith type.

      It’s funny, this is the first year that I agree that Exum’s personality fits better with the Jazz than Smart’s.

       

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    • #930310
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      thunderjerk
      Participant

      The Jazz didn’t select Burke – the Timberwolves selected him and then called the Jazz up. Not the other way around. Also Schroeder’s hairdo is the result of a birthmark. 

      I think you’re off base when you say that the Jazz make decisions solely on personalities most likely to stay long term. That’s assanine. Truth is nobody knows who will or won’t stay. A good situation and winning culture are the best methods of keeping players long term. Take Deron Williams for example. He was a kid from Dallas who went to Big 10 in the University of Illinois. That doesn’t seem like a guy that wants the small time. I have no doubts that if the Jazz were winning in 2010-11, Williams wouldn’t have left and Jerry would probably still be around. 

      It’s the the same reason why KD will probably stay in OKC and the reason why Duncan has stayed in San Antonio forever. If you win, your talent sticks around. 

      In my opinion, the only reason why the Jazz have only drafted with an average hit rate is because Kevin O’Conner is risk adverse and not an incredible judge of talent. That’s why they selected a junior in Deron Williams over the freshman Chris Paul. It’s pretty easy. Kanter over Valanciunas because in matchups against each other, Kanter was better. 

       

      Super re excited about the Exum selection, though. Ballsy move by Dennis Lindsey. Love it. 

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    • #930444
      AvatarAvatar
      thunderjerk
      Participant

      The Jazz didn’t select Burke – the Timberwolves selected him and then called the Jazz up. Not the other way around. Also Schroeder’s hairdo is the result of a birthmark. 

      I think you’re off base when you say that the Jazz make decisions solely on personalities most likely to stay long term. That’s assanine. Truth is nobody knows who will or won’t stay. A good situation and winning culture are the best methods of keeping players long term. Take Deron Williams for example. He was a kid from Dallas who went to Big 10 in the University of Illinois. That doesn’t seem like a guy that wants the small time. I have no doubts that if the Jazz were winning in 2010-11, Williams wouldn’t have left and Jerry would probably still be around. 

      It’s the the same reason why KD will probably stay in OKC and the reason why Duncan has stayed in San Antonio forever. If you win, your talent sticks around. 

      In my opinion, the only reason why the Jazz have only drafted with an average hit rate is because Kevin O’Conner is risk adverse and not an incredible judge of talent. That’s why they selected a junior in Deron Williams over the freshman Chris Paul. It’s pretty easy. Kanter over Valanciunas because in matchups against each other, Kanter was better. 

       

      Super re excited about the Exum selection, though. Ballsy move by Dennis Lindsey. Love it. 

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  • #930186
    AvatarAvatar
    SwatLakeCity
    Participant

    Okay I don’t think you are a Jazz fan like I am, but I respect your opinion. There’s one main reason why the Jazz selected those players. The Jazz are in a small market, so in order to get players to stay on their team past their rookie contracts and ultimately become players that are worth the selection in the end they have to not only select players based on their college season and physical play, but also because their personality fits the organization to a T.

    I’m not going to state why the Jazz picked Deron Williams over Chris Paul in 2005 because I actually agree with you there. (Although for awhile I didn’t. It was only until recently, 2010, that I actually thought that Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul) I’ll only say this on that draft selection. Jazz could have selected either player and they would not have gone wrong either way. 

    Gordon Hayward, I believe was picked over Paul George because he came from a small school Butler University. And so the Jazz thought that because of that he might stay in Utah longer than his rookie contract. We’ll see if that "judgement" is true or not this offseason if he ends up spurning the Jazz for some other team and leaves. But I think the Jazz will match his inevitable offer. (Sorry Celtics) Although I agree I do wonder why the Jazz didn’t select Paul George instead. I think he too would have stayed in Utah past his rookie contract. It was probably a reason very similar to the Deron Williams over Chris Paul decision in 2005.

    Enes Kanter over Jonas Valanciunas: On a basketball standpoint I agree with you to an extent. Valanciunas definitely is the better player than Kanter right now. I am not a fan of Kanter (unlike my username suggests). But I do understand the pick from a personnel standpoint. The Jazz at that time had just barely gotten Derrick Favors in a trade with the Nets (then in New Jersey) for Deron Williams. They also got Devin Harris, this lottery pick (Kanter not Exum) and a first round draft pick in 2013 that was previously awarded to the Nets from the Warriors in the Marcus Williams trade. (that pick ended up being the 21st) Favors is a big man who is a banger. They wanted to find someone who would fit well next to him and compliment Favors’ weaknesses. In other words they wanted a bigman who could shoot the 3 or at least the outside shot well as well as operate inside the post. You have to admit Kanter is definitely more of an offensive player than Valanciunas is and actually plays a bit more like Nikola Pekovic or Mehmet Okur. So from that standpoint Kanter is the better pick over Valanciunas. Also Kanter was picked because of his personality. Even though the Favors and Kanter duo did not work this year, Kanter does think his style of play fits well with Favors. And he does like him. There is no dislike between Kanter and Favors. So we’ll see this coming year if the duo does indeed work from a basketball standpoint. For his sake I think that it will.

    Alec Burks was picked over Kawhi Leonard because the Jazz actually thought at the time that Gordon Hayward was a 3 and not a 2, like you obviously think. If Gordon Hayward is a 2, then I admit Kawhi Leonard would be a great fit next to him. From that standpoint Alec Burks was probably the best player available on the board and a perfect fit for the Jazz! (I also think that technically Hayward is a 3. And I think that is the position he will be asked to play this coming year.) That year I wanted Burks all along to go to the Jazz. I really liked the way he played for Colorado. I was a big fan of the Big 12 that year solely to watch him play. Loved him as a player. But I had a bad feeling and thought that he would not be drafted by the Jazz because I, like you, thought the Jazz unfortunately never seemed to get the players they needed. But ever since that selection, I now think that the Jazz will get every player that they need as long as that player could respectfully be on the board by the time they are on the clock.

    Trey was picked over MCW and Shroeder for the same reason. Trey has an uncanny personality that Jazz fans (myself included) and the Jazz organization loves. MCW came from Syracuse. That’s a big school, he might want to see greener and winninger (is that a word? I don’t think so, but I think you get my point) pastures after his rookie contract is up. And have you seen Shroeder’s hair do? If so, it definitely does not look like a "Jazz haircut." I don’t know if there is such a thing as a "Jazz haircut" (and I don’t think there is, but I think you get my point considering that Salt Lake City is mostly populated by Mormons. And that is definitely not a "Mormon haircut.")  I don’t think this was the reason why the Jazz drafted Trey Burke over Shroeder that year, but that’s why I didn’t want him on my Jazz. And I was so happy the Jazz didn’t get him for that reason. I think the real reason why is because the Jazz did bring him in for a workout that year, and they must have came away thinking "Nope, he definitely won’t be our pick." And probably for a darn good reason. I think he will opt out for greener and most definitely winninger pastures after his rookie contract is up too. And technically you can’t discredit the Jazz for selecting Burke or Shroeder because neither player has fully developed yet. I definitely think that Burke was the right choice in the end over both MCW and Shroeder.

    The "real" reason why Exum and Hood were selected this year was for that same reason. Their personalities matches the Jazz organization perfectly. There is just something about Exum’s demeanor that gives you the notion that he will stay with the Jazz past his rookie contract. (Have you noticed that he does not have one tattoo on his body? Now that’s something that I love about him, but it definitely is an uncommon thing in today’s NBA.) I also think that Hood is very similar to Hayward in that both are deceptively athletic and can defend decentlly. Both players are not known for their defense but you have to admit they do defend decently. But both are more known for their jumpshooting. So I think the Jazz also selected Hood knowing that even though they want to bring back Hayward this offseason they might not be able to bring him back. They wanted a player that plays at least somewhat similar to Hayward. And you have to admit Hood is similar to Hayward in their playing styles. So they selected him thinking that he would help the Jazz survive if they do lose Hayward in the end. I also think Exum was picked because he is big for a point guard and can play both guard positions very well! He is 6’6 so if he does play SG (Which I think he will at first) the Jazz won’t be hurt by a size disadvantage. The Jazz love players who are versatile and that’s exactly what Exum is. The Jazz do not look at versatility as a bad thing. They look at it as a strength. (I also think the Jazz think there is no such thing as a tweener in the NBA. They know what it means, but they think it is a good thing not a bad thing. It shows that they are versatile, but that’s an argument for another day.) I think they believe that Burks is better coming off the bench instead of in the starting lineup. So from that viewpoint they did have a huge hole at the 2 guard in the starting lineup. And they filled it wonderfully by selecting Dante Exum.

    Now I think that Hayward will stay with the Jazz, and they will happily accept his offer as they have a ton of caproom to do so this offseason. So I think that Hood will end up coming off the bench to backup Hayward and he will do so marvelously. I think he will become a key bench player for the Jazz going forward.

    If you are in fact a Jazz fan, then I am definitely sorry if I placed any judgement on you. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Jazz aced their draft this year. But I also think the Jazz aced their draft in 2010, 2011, and 2013. And I think you needed to hear the main reason why the Jazz select the players they do.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #930432
    AvatarAvatar
    Hazel
    Participant

    I am a Jazz fan, but am not offended, differences of opinion aren’t offensive to me.

    I am just saying I at the time worried that we missed out on someone better than we got who would also fit the culture, and I still feel that way.

    It should be noted, however, that all of the guys they picked were solid second choices and that kind of drafting success is to be commended.

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  • #930298
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    Hazel
    Participant

    I am a Jazz fan, but am not offended, differences of opinion aren’t offensive to me.

    I am just saying I at the time worried that we missed out on someone better than we got who would also fit the culture, and I still feel that way.

    It should be noted, however, that all of the guys they picked were solid second choices and that kind of drafting success is to be commended.

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