This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar XYRYX 12 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #53868
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    LitteringAnd…
    Participant

     Just for shits and giggles I’d like to open a discussion on rebuilds. Basically I’m going to list 3teams which are in trouble to varying degrees (NOT teams already bottoming out, Utah, 76ers, Bucks) and a few of their issues. I’d like people to just sing out with ideas to fix them, draft picks, trades (prefferably of the realistic nature) or FA signings. Feel free to add other teams.

    CLEAVLAND:

    – Getting dangerously close to the dreaded no-mans land of mediocrity.

    – What level of rebuild to go for, who goes?

    – Just how good is Kyrie? (Hasn’t improved much since first season, low win shares) can you actually build a contender around this guy?

    DETROIT:

    – Smith and his contract

    – Jennings and his contract

    – Do you go win now with Smith and Jennings, maybe trade Monroe for pieces, or somehow get back to where they shoud’ve stayed last summer, devolping the two young bigs together while adding more pieces in the draft. 

    NEW ORLEANS

    – Obviously Davis is the future but he needs help in the middle

    – what to do re: Tyreke

    – is Gordon an long term answer at the 2? Can he be expected to get back to pre-injury impact?

     

     

    Each of these teams have in my mind made the mistake of trying to fast-track their rebuilds and left them with little wiggle room.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #871237
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    TarHeelRaven
    Participant

     Cleveland has to be one of if not the most dissappointing teams in the NBA this season.  I thought they were a legitimate playoff contender, but are 19-33 and floundering in mediocrity.  Their number one pick Anthony Bennett averages 3.8 points per game.  Dion Waiters and Kyrie Irving hate each other.  Kyrie can put anybody on skates and dazzle crowds with his dribbling, but can he win and make his teammatesd better?  Many decisions need to be made this offseason.  Kyrie is the obvious star, but is he the future in Cleveland?  Will Anthony Bennett improve and give the Cavs anything next year?  Haven’t Cavalier fans suffered enough already?

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    • #871245
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      burgessfour
      Participant

      The Cavs. just have to play Kyrie, Waiters, Zeller, Bennett & Thompson and see if they can figure it out. I don’t care if Kyrie & Waiters don’t like each other, they need to grow the $uck up and play some ball. They’ll have another high pick this year to add to the mix. Bring in a couple solid veteran pros. in the off-season to help with the growth next year. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, those guys need to play 30 minutes a night and try to get something going.

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    • #871350
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      burgessfour
      Participant

      The Cavs. just have to play Kyrie, Waiters, Zeller, Bennett & Thompson and see if they can figure it out. I don’t care if Kyrie & Waiters don’t like each other, they need to grow the $uck up and play some ball. They’ll have another high pick this year to add to the mix. Bring in a couple solid veteran pros. in the off-season to help with the growth next year. If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, those guys need to play 30 minutes a night and try to get something going.

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  • #871342
    AvatarAvatar
    TarHeelRaven
    Participant

     Cleveland has to be one of if not the most dissappointing teams in the NBA this season.  I thought they were a legitimate playoff contender, but are 19-33 and floundering in mediocrity.  Their number one pick Anthony Bennett averages 3.8 points per game.  Dion Waiters and Kyrie Irving hate each other.  Kyrie can put anybody on skates and dazzle crowds with his dribbling, but can he win and make his teammatesd better?  Many decisions need to be made this offseason.  Kyrie is the obvious star, but is he the future in Cleveland?  Will Anthony Bennett improve and give the Cavs anything next year?  Haven’t Cavalier fans suffered enough already?

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  • #871235
    AvatarAvatar
    KHAM83
    Participant

     Cleveland

    Kyrie was definitely handed the keys to the city too quickly. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, but this could get to a guy’s head. It’s too early to give up on him, and he surely is talented. He just needs to be surrounded with leaders on the team and in the coaching staff. Instead of taking baby steps, Chris Grant tried to take a huge jump but fell miserably. This team does have salvageable pieces to move forward. Imo, if half the rumors are true, Kyrie-Dionne backcourt needs to break up, regardless of Waiters potential.

     

    Dumars has flat out been terrible for the past decade and needs to go. Smith imo is not movable. Smith, Drummond, Monroe cannot win together. Bc of this, Detroit may be forced to deal Monroe. Again, I’m saying this due to their circumstances. If you cannot move Smith, it makes things worst to keep that frontcourt only to lose. As I think of it, maybe they can take advantage of the Nets like Atlanta did with Joe Johnson. If Nets’ season is a failure, I cannot see KG wanting to stay. I’m sure they’ll swap KG expiring contract for Smith, then buy KG out or let him retire.

     

    New Orleans

    They definitely need to add size next to Davis. I just cannot fathom the idea of any team dealing for Evans or Gordon, although I would personally for EG. Moving forward, they need to figure out how to make Holiday-Gordon-Evans work together. Chances are they lose their draft pick this year. I know they want to keep Anderson, but they seriously need to consider doing that Asik deal.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #871340
    AvatarAvatar
    KHAM83
    Participant

     Cleveland

    Kyrie was definitely handed the keys to the city too quickly. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, but this could get to a guy’s head. It’s too early to give up on him, and he surely is talented. He just needs to be surrounded with leaders on the team and in the coaching staff. Instead of taking baby steps, Chris Grant tried to take a huge jump but fell miserably. This team does have salvageable pieces to move forward. Imo, if half the rumors are true, Kyrie-Dionne backcourt needs to break up, regardless of Waiters potential.

     

    Dumars has flat out been terrible for the past decade and needs to go. Smith imo is not movable. Smith, Drummond, Monroe cannot win together. Bc of this, Detroit may be forced to deal Monroe. Again, I’m saying this due to their circumstances. If you cannot move Smith, it makes things worst to keep that frontcourt only to lose. As I think of it, maybe they can take advantage of the Nets like Atlanta did with Joe Johnson. If Nets’ season is a failure, I cannot see KG wanting to stay. I’m sure they’ll swap KG expiring contract for Smith, then buy KG out or let him retire.

     

    New Orleans

    They definitely need to add size next to Davis. I just cannot fathom the idea of any team dealing for Evans or Gordon, although I would personally for EG. Moving forward, they need to figure out how to make Holiday-Gordon-Evans work together. Chances are they lose their draft pick this year. I know they want to keep Anderson, but they seriously need to consider doing that Asik deal.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #871305
    AvatarAvatar
    jwall1
    Participant

    Cleveland should play their younger guys more (Zeller and Bennett specifically), and possibly trade Deng and Waiters for a decent player and picks if possible. They need to tank and continue rebuilding through the draft…

     

    Detroit is basically screwed in my opinion, there really is no way any team will take on Jennings’ or Smiths’ contract. Trading Monroe for shooters/picks and seeing if the Drummond/Smith duo can work…
     
     
    NOP needs to trade Gordon or Evans. Both players IMO are more effective as starters, and Tyreke Evans is neither guy can play SF. I would personally trade Gordon, but I really do not see many teams who want that contract.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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    • #871499
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      XYRYX
      Participant

       

      One of the biggest problems teams like the Kings or the Cavs had for the last couple of years is they always drafted players regardless of team needs or without a clue how to form all of the talent into a team and dramatically lacked veteran leadership.

      The Cavs havn’t exactly shown that they have been good drafting payers the last couple of years and Kyrie is in his 3rd season and if they again bottom out and try to build through the draft why should he want to stay watching the lottery over and over again?

      Imo the Cavs did the right move to draft for an All Star type of veteran like Deng. They need leadership and experience because the young guys don’t know how to run this team yet.

       

      And Jennings’ contract isn’t exactly bad or hard to move imo. He is on the books with 8 mio next year and 8.34 in 15/16. Everyone knows what Jennings is and what he is not but he is playing good in 2014 and is paid less than other oint guards with his numbers. If the Knicks had assets to make a trade happen, they would try to make something happen imo. Jennings might be overrated but he is not overpaid imo. Combine this with the expiring contracts of of CV and Ben Gordon who get both 8.5 this year and it really should be too hard to make a trade happen. But honestly I don’t think Jennings is the problem or the first one who needs to be moved. We all knoa the frontcourt is the problem and I’m very sad that Monroe most likely will be the one who is the scapegoat for poor management. On the other hand it might be good for him to be out of Joe Dumars’ atmosphere.

       

      The pelicans are in the best position of all three teams named. To me the roster is pretty much set. I don’t think it’s too much of a problem to play Reke of the bench. Paying him 11 mio per year to do this is the other thing but he is doing okay to me. Gordons situation on the other hand really concernes me. I read an interview on hoopshype a few weks ago where he states he isn’t the same anymore an doesn’t think he will ever be the same. To me it lokos like he lost a lot of passion due to his health struggles and the fact that he is only 25 doesn’t make this any better.

       

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    • #871605
      AvatarAvatar
      XYRYX
      Participant

       

      One of the biggest problems teams like the Kings or the Cavs had for the last couple of years is they always drafted players regardless of team needs or without a clue how to form all of the talent into a team and dramatically lacked veteran leadership.

      The Cavs havn’t exactly shown that they have been good drafting payers the last couple of years and Kyrie is in his 3rd season and if they again bottom out and try to build through the draft why should he want to stay watching the lottery over and over again?

      Imo the Cavs did the right move to draft for an All Star type of veteran like Deng. They need leadership and experience because the young guys don’t know how to run this team yet.

       

      And Jennings’ contract isn’t exactly bad or hard to move imo. He is on the books with 8 mio next year and 8.34 in 15/16. Everyone knows what Jennings is and what he is not but he is playing good in 2014 and is paid less than other oint guards with his numbers. If the Knicks had assets to make a trade happen, they would try to make something happen imo. Jennings might be overrated but he is not overpaid imo. Combine this with the expiring contracts of of CV and Ben Gordon who get both 8.5 this year and it really should be too hard to make a trade happen. But honestly I don’t think Jennings is the problem or the first one who needs to be moved. We all knoa the frontcourt is the problem and I’m very sad that Monroe most likely will be the one who is the scapegoat for poor management. On the other hand it might be good for him to be out of Joe Dumars’ atmosphere.

       

      The pelicans are in the best position of all three teams named. To me the roster is pretty much set. I don’t think it’s too much of a problem to play Reke of the bench. Paying him 11 mio per year to do this is the other thing but he is doing okay to me. Gordons situation on the other hand really concernes me. I read an interview on hoopshype a few weks ago where he states he isn’t the same anymore an doesn’t think he will ever be the same. To me it lokos like he lost a lot of passion due to his health struggles and the fact that he is only 25 doesn’t make this any better.

       

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  • #871411
    AvatarAvatar
    jwall1
    Participant

    Cleveland should play their younger guys more (Zeller and Bennett specifically), and possibly trade Deng and Waiters for a decent player and picks if possible. They need to tank and continue rebuilding through the draft…

     

    Detroit is basically screwed in my opinion, there really is no way any team will take on Jennings’ or Smiths’ contract. Trading Monroe for shooters/picks and seeing if the Drummond/Smith duo can work…
     
     
    NOP needs to trade Gordon or Evans. Both players IMO are more effective as starters, and Tyreke Evans is neither guy can play SF. I would personally trade Gordon, but I really do not see many teams who want that contract.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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  • #871436
    AvatarAvatar
    tuck243
    Participant

    Everyone is down on Kyrie but he still ranked top 15 in assists. Tristan Thompson plays better with Kyrie on the floor with him. The issue is the Cavs don’t have shooters to spread the ball to. Waiters can’t shoot and need the ball in his hands in order to do anything offensively. That team can’t stop anyone from scoring. Mike Brown is horrible with player development and Bynum is gone. The Cavs made that splash in the off-season on Bynum, BUT they just sign mediocre players the rest of the way. Earl Clark really? I expected the Cavs to do better this season, but not improve dramatically. Bynum barely played while there as he was returning from injury. Kyrie legit has to get his points in order to make it a good game. No one on the low block for the Cavs and Deng is their only reliable second option now. Kyrie is a good dude from what I’ve been hearing about him and his up bringing. This is on the Cavs organization as a whole. What we should be saying is #FREEKYRIE

    The Pistons- They needed a splash to show their fan base that they were trying to win. That’s why they pick up 2 players that couldn’t shoot. Now they have two long contracts and nothing to do with them. So they have to trade their only legit post man in Monroe because he can’t play with Josh Smith on the floor (Duh!! to that Front Office). They knew this when they sign Josh Smith, so I don’t understand the “need” to make moves now. Should have already got rid of Monroe once they signed Josh. Rodney Stuckey is in the group of Tyreke Evans and Dion Waiters. They can’t shoot so they need the ball in their hands. D. Wade is the reason behind this phenomenon because teams want to find the “next” superstar all the time. What make Wade incredible is because without being able to shoot 3’s he’s still able to score 25+ with ease. None of these players can. They can’t be on a rebuilding team, they need to be on a team that is a contender and they are the 6th man. So, Stuckey should be moved as well, he provides nothing for that team.

    The Pelicans- They have a few issues. I expected them to do well this season, but they haven’t all be on the floor at the same time. I’ll say injuries might be an excuse for them. On the flip side of that, Eric Gordon just simply do not want to be there. He told you this and they should have just let him leave. I watched him in a couple of games this season and he just not interested at all out there. Which is crazy because on paper they are actually good. The enigma that is Tyreke. You basically can’t have him on your squad without being a good team already. Its almost like Odom on the Clippers. Not efficient enough to be the go to. but on a good team he’s the X factor. Tyreke is the same way.

    Cavs need to figure out if they want to rebuild around a player. If so, they need to stop drafting so damn stupid. Obviously if you have a PG that can create off the dribble you need shooters around him. Why would you draft Dion Waiters? Then you already have a undersize PF that gives you damn near the same thing as AB. Why draft him #1? Like you aren’t in any position to draft the best player available when you already have an All-Star player. I don’t get it.

    Pistons just basically F’d themselves this off-season on their future so its kind of a sticky situation. Trading Stuckey and Monroe are their options, but they need to be a run and gun type team to win. Getting players that fit into that type of system will be the best. Shooters, shooters, shooters because BJ, Josh Smith, and Andre aren’t forcing teams to play tight defense on them.

    Pelicans need their players healthy and Eric Gordon to stop being a punk. He actually fit perfectly with that starting line up since Jrue can guard the 2 guard. Kinda sad how terrible he’s playing when they have good dudes in Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday helping him. Tyreke would be golden if that team was actually good, but since they’re not he simply is a liability. Honestly I would try and trade both of them. The issue is there aren’t any players worth getting for real. There is a drought in reliable 2 guards in the league that can make an open 3 point shot and create his own shot. Really they just need to get better as a team and get an identity. Which should be a defensive team with Jrue, Tyreke(potentially), and Anthony Davis being able to play great defense. Eric Gordon for a healthy Danny Granger might be an option (if Lance decides to leave).

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  • #871542
    AvatarAvatar
    tuck243
    Participant

    Everyone is down on Kyrie but he still ranked top 15 in assists. Tristan Thompson plays better with Kyrie on the floor with him. The issue is the Cavs don’t have shooters to spread the ball to. Waiters can’t shoot and need the ball in his hands in order to do anything offensively. That team can’t stop anyone from scoring. Mike Brown is horrible with player development and Bynum is gone. The Cavs made that splash in the off-season on Bynum, BUT they just sign mediocre players the rest of the way. Earl Clark really? I expected the Cavs to do better this season, but not improve dramatically. Bynum barely played while there as he was returning from injury. Kyrie legit has to get his points in order to make it a good game. No one on the low block for the Cavs and Deng is their only reliable second option now. Kyrie is a good dude from what I’ve been hearing about him and his up bringing. This is on the Cavs organization as a whole. What we should be saying is #FREEKYRIE

    The Pistons- They needed a splash to show their fan base that they were trying to win. That’s why they pick up 2 players that couldn’t shoot. Now they have two long contracts and nothing to do with them. So they have to trade their only legit post man in Monroe because he can’t play with Josh Smith on the floor (Duh!! to that Front Office). They knew this when they sign Josh Smith, so I don’t understand the “need” to make moves now. Should have already got rid of Monroe once they signed Josh. Rodney Stuckey is in the group of Tyreke Evans and Dion Waiters. They can’t shoot so they need the ball in their hands. D. Wade is the reason behind this phenomenon because teams want to find the “next” superstar all the time. What make Wade incredible is because without being able to shoot 3’s he’s still able to score 25+ with ease. None of these players can. They can’t be on a rebuilding team, they need to be on a team that is a contender and they are the 6th man. So, Stuckey should be moved as well, he provides nothing for that team.

    The Pelicans- They have a few issues. I expected them to do well this season, but they haven’t all be on the floor at the same time. I’ll say injuries might be an excuse for them. On the flip side of that, Eric Gordon just simply do not want to be there. He told you this and they should have just let him leave. I watched him in a couple of games this season and he just not interested at all out there. Which is crazy because on paper they are actually good. The enigma that is Tyreke. You basically can’t have him on your squad without being a good team already. Its almost like Odom on the Clippers. Not efficient enough to be the go to. but on a good team he’s the X factor. Tyreke is the same way.

    Cavs need to figure out if they want to rebuild around a player. If so, they need to stop drafting so damn stupid. Obviously if you have a PG that can create off the dribble you need shooters around him. Why would you draft Dion Waiters? Then you already have a undersize PF that gives you damn near the same thing as AB. Why draft him #1? Like you aren’t in any position to draft the best player available when you already have an All-Star player. I don’t get it.

    Pistons just basically F’d themselves this off-season on their future so its kind of a sticky situation. Trading Stuckey and Monroe are their options, but they need to be a run and gun type team to win. Getting players that fit into that type of system will be the best. Shooters, shooters, shooters because BJ, Josh Smith, and Andre aren’t forcing teams to play tight defense on them.

    Pelicans need their players healthy and Eric Gordon to stop being a punk. He actually fit perfectly with that starting line up since Jrue can guard the 2 guard. Kinda sad how terrible he’s playing when they have good dudes in Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday helping him. Tyreke would be golden if that team was actually good, but since they’re not he simply is a liability. Honestly I would try and trade both of them. The issue is there aren’t any players worth getting for real. There is a drought in reliable 2 guards in the league that can make an open 3 point shot and create his own shot. Really they just need to get better as a team and get an identity. Which should be a defensive team with Jrue, Tyreke(potentially), and Anthony Davis being able to play great defense. Eric Gordon for a healthy Danny Granger might be an option (if Lance decides to leave).

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  • #871481
    AvatarAvatar
    nath09
    Participant

     CLEVELAND

    The problem here I believe is not on the court, that’s just where we see the probllems. If your going to buil a young team with so many players on rookie contracts you have to do your best to keep Deng.

    As it turns out, even with hindsight if the Cas were going todraft a wing Waiters isn’t too far behind Beal and Barnes in production; however if he is such a cancer on the team get rid of him and make an example to Kyrie and others that Prima Donna behaviour win’t ne tollerated. 

    The other thing is the coaching situation, why would you rehire a coach to develop a young group that coulldn’tt win with James, Shaq, Jamieson and a generally deeper team (I know they weren’t all in their prime but the talent was there)

    So essentially I thiink the rebuild in Cleveland must start with the people in suits.

    DETROIT

    Possibly same as Cavs, the suits are the problem, they just have a horrible recent history of spending money. I think Jennings should be given a chance to grow into a floor leader. So far in this league playing for the Bucks he has probably had to adjust to 1000 differnet starting fives and possibly just needs the right coach and players around him.

    I think if they can’t get a coach to make Smith, Jennings and Monroe or play well together Smith will just be the next Gordon or Charlie V signing. 

    Overall Detroit is so financially involved in the players people view as their issues that I have nosuggestions to improve their list.

    PELICANS

    I believe they have the best scenario of these three teams simply because they have Davis. He is only in his second year and way off his prime. Their main aim should be to treadslowly and spend prudently.

    I’m not sure if Treke, Koliday and Gordan can all be there. They are all of a similar age and stage of their careers and may all want to make their mark which might not work for team chemistry.

    Although Gordan is playing below expectation I believe that you give him this full season a full pre-season and that will give him  the full opportuniy to return to the level he was expected to be at. What that probably means is that Tyreke has to embrace the roll he is in now and be a second unit leader. If he can’t do that the whole Holiday, Noel, Vasquez business was a miistake.

    What they probably do need is a first rounder this year so fi they don’t think that Gordon and/or Evans are in their future plans they should do their very best to use them to figure out how to get as high as they can into that first round.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • #871587
    AvatarAvatar
    nath09
    Participant

     CLEVELAND

    The problem here I believe is not on the court, that’s just where we see the probllems. If your going to buil a young team with so many players on rookie contracts you have to do your best to keep Deng.

    As it turns out, even with hindsight if the Cas were going todraft a wing Waiters isn’t too far behind Beal and Barnes in production; however if he is such a cancer on the team get rid of him and make an example to Kyrie and others that Prima Donna behaviour win’t ne tollerated. 

    The other thing is the coaching situation, why would you rehire a coach to develop a young group that coulldn’tt win with James, Shaq, Jamieson and a generally deeper team (I know they weren’t all in their prime but the talent was there)

    So essentially I thiink the rebuild in Cleveland must start with the people in suits.

    DETROIT

    Possibly same as Cavs, the suits are the problem, they just have a horrible recent history of spending money. I think Jennings should be given a chance to grow into a floor leader. So far in this league playing for the Bucks he has probably had to adjust to 1000 differnet starting fives and possibly just needs the right coach and players around him.

    I think if they can’t get a coach to make Smith, Jennings and Monroe or play well together Smith will just be the next Gordon or Charlie V signing. 

    Overall Detroit is so financially involved in the players people view as their issues that I have nosuggestions to improve their list.

    PELICANS

    I believe they have the best scenario of these three teams simply because they have Davis. He is only in his second year and way off his prime. Their main aim should be to treadslowly and spend prudently.

    I’m not sure if Treke, Koliday and Gordan can all be there. They are all of a similar age and stage of their careers and may all want to make their mark which might not work for team chemistry.

    Although Gordan is playing below expectation I believe that you give him this full season a full pre-season and that will give him  the full opportuniy to return to the level he was expected to be at. What that probably means is that Tyreke has to embrace the roll he is in now and be a second unit leader. If he can’t do that the whole Holiday, Noel, Vasquez business was a miistake.

    What they probably do need is a first rounder this year so fi they don’t think that Gordon and/or Evans are in their future plans they should do their very best to use them to figure out how to get as high as they can into that first round.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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