The Bulls and Thibs - NBADraft.net

This topic contains 24 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by DolanCare 12 years, 5 months ago.

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 7:07am #53287

Moon River
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Zach Lowe (via Twitter) mentioned something earlier this morning about Thibs hearing of the Deng trade and assuming the fetal position (some degree of sarcasm). As we all know there is friction between Thibs and Gar/Pax regarding a number of issues. We also know that Thibs is on board with Rose and Rose with Thibs and Rose’s camp (via his brother) is not opposed to letting their opinion known about the direction of the Bulls. A NY article last week claims Rose will/would not be interested in a rebuilding situation.
I am not saying they are in a rebuilding situation but it is certainly not a lets battle our tails off and see what happens situation that Thibs has been saying last year and the current one.
On top of the existing friction, there is this from the Chicago Sun Time today (Joe Cowley).
"As of Monday afternoon, Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau told the media that in his discussions with general manager Gar Forman and VP of basketball operations John Paxson that “they’re not actively seeking to move anybody.’’
Yeah that was yesterday and later that day Deng is a Cavalier.
I like Thibs and think a healthy Rose is their future, but I am curious to see how this unfolds with the Thibs/Pax/Gar situation and also Thibs being in this situation with a team that does not have enought to compete (regardless of what he says).

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 7:18am #860672

Memphis Madness
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Riggin’ for Wiggins!
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 7:18am #860567

Memphis Madness
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Riggin’ for Wiggins!
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:01am #860686

DunksNJordans23
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"Sorry for Jabari" has begun in Chicago
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:01am #860581

DunksNJordans23
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"Sorry for Jabari" has begun in Chicago
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 9:47am #860741

Sewok15
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Chicago I see as a team that would take Parker for sure if they pulled off the #1 team. I think many of the other potential lotto teams would look harder at Wiggins and Embiid than Chicago because Parker being from Chicago. He went to Simeon High School and the last player they drafted #1 overall from there was MVP by age 22.
If Rose gets healthy and they draft Parker look out…that would give them the scoring punch they need to go with there tremendous defense. That being said I doubt Chicago lands a top 5 pick.
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 9:47am #860635

Sewok15
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Chicago I see as a team that would take Parker for sure if they pulled off the #1 team. I think many of the other potential lotto teams would look harder at Wiggins and Embiid than Chicago because Parker being from Chicago. He went to Simeon High School and the last player they drafted #1 overall from there was MVP by age 22.
If Rose gets healthy and they draft Parker look out…that would give them the scoring punch they need to go with there tremendous defense. That being said I doubt Chicago lands a top 5 pick.
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 1:19pm #860681

druneave3
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Despite the fact that Paxson stated that "today" doesn’t matter as much and they are now looking towards the future, Thibs isn’t going anywhere. They believe they have the best coach in the league and I think they will keep him despite all the rumors and the fact that their attempts to build for the future conflict with Thibs’ mentality.
Two trades I like for the Bulls in an attempt to improve their draft pick and look to the future…………..
Kirk Hinrich to Golden State for Kent Bazemore + (B. Rush trade exemption)
Mike Dunleavy to Portland for Myles Leonard.
Throw in picks to make deals work.
Last in scoring before the Deng deal, they will struggle to put up 80 points a night if they were to make one or two more deals involving Kirk/Dunleavy and force the hand of Thibs to play Teague/D-Leaguer and Snell bigger minutes.
Let’s get these tank wins!

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 1:19pm #860786

druneave3
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Despite the fact that Paxson stated that "today" doesn’t matter as much and they are now looking towards the future, Thibs isn’t going anywhere. They believe they have the best coach in the league and I think they will keep him despite all the rumors and the fact that their attempts to build for the future conflict with Thibs’ mentality.
Two trades I like for the Bulls in an attempt to improve their draft pick and look to the future…………..
Kirk Hinrich to Golden State for Kent Bazemore + (B. Rush trade exemption)
Mike Dunleavy to Portland for Myles Leonard.
Throw in picks to make deals work.
Last in scoring before the Deng deal, they will struggle to put up 80 points a night if they were to make one or two more deals involving Kirk/Dunleavy and force the hand of Thibs to play Teague/D-Leaguer and Snell bigger minutes.
Let’s get these tank wins!

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 1:21pm #860683

Sharp Shooter
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Man, Taj Gibson would look great in a pistons uniform
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 1:21pm #860788

Sharp Shooter
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Man, Taj Gibson would look great in a pistons uniform
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 2:32pm #860693

Ghost01
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A lot of intelligent comments here…
The facts are, Thibs and Rose really have no choice. This management team has made a decision, and any logical basketball fan knows it is the right decision. Sure, Deng meant a lot personally to Thibs and Rose, but this is business.
Thibs’ obsession with being competitive is fine, but the facts are there is no point in getting murdered in a first round playoff series and doing nothing for the future. Last year, the Bulls’ treaded water without Rose. Now that it has happened twice, making a more big picture decision was needed.
And if Rose really thinks this is a "rebuild", then he is very foolish. It is more of a retool. They can easily come back next year with him, Butler, Mirotic (who with this extra money will be easier to sign), and Noah. Then you add in a lottery pick, possibly Charlotte’s pick, and Gibson, you are building a solid team.
Also, Lowe mentioned in that article that the Bulls could throw money at Stephenson, which would be ideal, but imagine how quickly they would be in the hunt for the East again if they could pry him away from Indy. They’ll be fine, this was the right call.

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- Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:35pm #860726
  
  Scott42444
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  Thibs and Rose could hate what Gar/Pax did all they want, both are under contract for 3 more years. They need to shut their mouths (or Reggie Rose for that matter) and let the front office do their jobs. Gar/Pax take A LOT of heat, but in reality have done as good as almost anyone in the league at putting together a contending team. Even their draft "misses" of James Johnson and Tyrus Thomas have been turned into a 1st Rounder (probably this year from Charlotte) and Nikola Mirotic (via draft trade). Not a bad way to salvage mistakes.
  Thibs is a great coach, but I do have a problem with his obsession with playing guys such heavy minutes during the regular season. Against Dallas recently, Jimmy Butler played over 40 minutes even though the Bulls were down by 30 in the 2nd quarter. He had to be helped out of the Bulls locker room because he could barely walk. Before Deng got traded, while he missed a couple games due to an achilles injury recently for the Bulls, Thibs was actually calling Deng out for missing time. This is the guy who has played through mutiple injuries and has led the league in minutes played for 1/2 of Thibs’s time here and Thibs is calling him out to get back on the court. FOR WHAT?!?! Nobody in the league thinks the Bulls can win an NBA Championship because they don’t have enough offense. Great defense is a winning strategy to a certain degree, but the NBA actually has different rules for the superstar offensive players than for the great defenders. It’s just the way the refs call the game and the Bulls certainly were beneficiaries during the Jordan era so I have seen it both ways. Also, if Thibs is a "Defensive Guru", why does he need a bunch of defensive studs who struggle offensively? Can’t he teach some offensive studs how to play defense? Can he not develop a scheme that disguises the deficiencies of some of his more defensively challenged players? It seems to me that Thibs is a great motivator more than he is a defensive genius. The NBA is the only league where one person can single handedly take over and win a game. The Bulls have only one person on their roster who can do that and he hasn’t played in 10% of the Bulls games the last couple of years. They need to find a way to get another while keeping some of the team intact. It’s that simple. Deng wasn’t going to be worth to the Bulls what he will get paid.
  Rant almost over, but basically these two guys (who I will cheer for with vigor) Rose and Thibs can complain about the Bulls "rebuilding" all they want but he fact of the matter is that the Eastern Conference sucks. The Pacers are great, but not yet elite and the Heat are elite but fading ever so slightly. If things go right, with a couple of lucky ping pong balls coming up in the Bulls favor and/or a stud sliding to Chicago in the draft and the correct free agents are signed (Gordon Hayward would be perfect in the Red and Black, although he is a restricted free agent) the Bulls could be even better than they were the last few seasons by as early as next year. I guarantee you won’t hear those complaints anymore.
  
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- Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:35pm #860832
  
  Scott42444
  Participant
  Thibs and Rose could hate what Gar/Pax did all they want, both are under contract for 3 more years. They need to shut their mouths (or Reggie Rose for that matter) and let the front office do their jobs. Gar/Pax take A LOT of heat, but in reality have done as good as almost anyone in the league at putting together a contending team. Even their draft "misses" of James Johnson and Tyrus Thomas have been turned into a 1st Rounder (probably this year from Charlotte) and Nikola Mirotic (via draft trade). Not a bad way to salvage mistakes.
  Thibs is a great coach, but I do have a problem with his obsession with playing guys such heavy minutes during the regular season. Against Dallas recently, Jimmy Butler played over 40 minutes even though the Bulls were down by 30 in the 2nd quarter. He had to be helped out of the Bulls locker room because he could barely walk. Before Deng got traded, while he missed a couple games due to an achilles injury recently for the Bulls, Thibs was actually calling Deng out for missing time. This is the guy who has played through mutiple injuries and has led the league in minutes played for 1/2 of Thibs’s time here and Thibs is calling him out to get back on the court. FOR WHAT?!?! Nobody in the league thinks the Bulls can win an NBA Championship because they don’t have enough offense. Great defense is a winning strategy to a certain degree, but the NBA actually has different rules for the superstar offensive players than for the great defenders. It’s just the way the refs call the game and the Bulls certainly were beneficiaries during the Jordan era so I have seen it both ways. Also, if Thibs is a "Defensive Guru", why does he need a bunch of defensive studs who struggle offensively? Can’t he teach some offensive studs how to play defense? Can he not develop a scheme that disguises the deficiencies of some of his more defensively challenged players? It seems to me that Thibs is a great motivator more than he is a defensive genius. The NBA is the only league where one person can single handedly take over and win a game. The Bulls have only one person on their roster who can do that and he hasn’t played in 10% of the Bulls games the last couple of years. They need to find a way to get another while keeping some of the team intact. It’s that simple. Deng wasn’t going to be worth to the Bulls what he will get paid.
  Rant almost over, but basically these two guys (who I will cheer for with vigor) Rose and Thibs can complain about the Bulls "rebuilding" all they want but he fact of the matter is that the Eastern Conference sucks. The Pacers are great, but not yet elite and the Heat are elite but fading ever so slightly. If things go right, with a couple of lucky ping pong balls coming up in the Bulls favor and/or a stud sliding to Chicago in the draft and the correct free agents are signed (Gordon Hayward would be perfect in the Red and Black, although he is a restricted free agent) the Bulls could be even better than they were the last few seasons by as early as next year. I guarantee you won’t hear those complaints anymore.
  
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 2:32pm #860798

Ghost01
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A lot of intelligent comments here…
The facts are, Thibs and Rose really have no choice. This management team has made a decision, and any logical basketball fan knows it is the right decision. Sure, Deng meant a lot personally to Thibs and Rose, but this is business.
Thibs’ obsession with being competitive is fine, but the facts are there is no point in getting murdered in a first round playoff series and doing nothing for the future. Last year, the Bulls’ treaded water without Rose. Now that it has happened twice, making a more big picture decision was needed.
And if Rose really thinks this is a "rebuild", then he is very foolish. It is more of a retool. They can easily come back next year with him, Butler, Mirotic (who with this extra money will be easier to sign), and Noah. Then you add in a lottery pick, possibly Charlotte’s pick, and Gibson, you are building a solid team.
Also, Lowe mentioned in that article that the Bulls could throw money at Stephenson, which would be ideal, but imagine how quickly they would be in the hunt for the East again if they could pry him away from Indy. They’ll be fine, this was the right call.

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 2:37pm #860695

Bmore_DC
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When you are as bad as the Bulls are this year, you’re not rebuilding, you just stink! Good move grabbing some picks for Deng, who was gonna walk after this year anyway…
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 2:37pm #860800

Bmore_DC
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When you are as bad as the Bulls are this year, you’re not rebuilding, you just stink! Good move grabbing some picks for Deng, who was gonna walk after this year anyway…
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 5:35pm #860717

druneave3
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PG- Rose /Ramon Sessions /DJ Augustine
SG- Snell / Sam Dekker (1st Round)
SF- Butler / Dunleavy
PF- Taj / Mirotic / Montrezl Harrell (1st Round) / Dwight Powell (2nd Round)
C- Noah / Greg Stiemsma
Coach: Thibs

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- Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:50pm #860728
  
  Scott42444
  Participant
  I threw up in my mouth a little when I looked at that team. I know that Dekker and Harrell are good college players but if that is what we end up with from this loaded draft I will be calling for Gar/Pax’s head(s). They need to swing for the fences and get a POSSIBLE future All-Star. I don’t know if a 6’5” PF/C and a future role player like Sam Dekker will propel the Bulls into contention. You also have the Bulls freeing up cap space by trading Deng, using the amnesty on Boozer and their rewards are Mirotic (great signing) and Ramon Sessions and Greg Stiemsma? That is more in line with a Milwaukee Bucks off-season than the Bulls. I will admit that the Bulls have struck out when it comes to getting the elite free agents in the past but that’s depressing. I think they will be more aggressive in trying to find an elite player to pair with Rose, not adding more rotation players to a average rotation. They NEED to obtain a player that can create his own shot. I think that they would trade ANYONE on the roster to get that person, Noah included.
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- Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 8:50pm #860834
  
  Scott42444
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  I threw up in my mouth a little when I looked at that team. I know that Dekker and Harrell are good college players but if that is what we end up with from this loaded draft I will be calling for Gar/Pax’s head(s). They need to swing for the fences and get a POSSIBLE future All-Star. I don’t know if a 6’5” PF/C and a future role player like Sam Dekker will propel the Bulls into contention. You also have the Bulls freeing up cap space by trading Deng, using the amnesty on Boozer and their rewards are Mirotic (great signing) and Ramon Sessions and Greg Stiemsma? That is more in line with a Milwaukee Bucks off-season than the Bulls. I will admit that the Bulls have struck out when it comes to getting the elite free agents in the past but that’s depressing. I think they will be more aggressive in trying to find an elite player to pair with Rose, not adding more rotation players to a average rotation. They NEED to obtain a player that can create his own shot. I think that they would trade ANYONE on the roster to get that person, Noah included.
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 5:35pm #860822

druneave3
Participant
PG- Rose /Ramon Sessions /DJ Augustine
SG- Snell / Sam Dekker (1st Round)
SF- Butler / Dunleavy
PF- Taj / Mirotic / Montrezl Harrell (1st Round) / Dwight Powell (2nd Round)
C- Noah / Greg Stiemsma
Coach: Thibs

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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 10:04pm #860730

Jester87
Participant
I’m a big fan of Thibs and of his approach to the game, not to mention his defensive system. But Chicago has done the right thing and now they’re in a position they can rebuild while staying competitive. We’re not talking about a long term project. Let’s say they dump Boozer via amnesty clause (something I’m not too high on because next year his contract has value as a trade asset, but gives them immediate flexibility), they trade some of their veterans like Dnleavy or Hinrich, if they can sign Mirotic and start from a core made of Rose-Noah-Gibson-Butler-Mirotic plus Dunleavy, Hinrich or whatever they can get for them, plus the two first round picks they have this year they’re already in a good position (even if their pick it’s not a top 3 pick: I don’t think they are ever going to be tanking under Thibs), assuming the Bobcats hold on and gives them their first rounder. Such a team would be a contender for the playoffs in the Eastern, so it’s not like they’re asking Rose to be part of a losing team. I think what they did made a lot of sense, even if they never get that Sacramento’s first round pick (it’s top 12 protected this year, top 10 protected until 2017, and the Kings are likely to be awful for at least the next two seasons), especially considering they were going to lose Deng anyway.
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Posted on: Tue, 01/07/2014 - 10:04pm #860836

Jester87
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I’m a big fan of Thibs and of his approach to the game, not to mention his defensive system. But Chicago has done the right thing and now they’re in a position they can rebuild while staying competitive. We’re not talking about a long term project. Let’s say they dump Boozer via amnesty clause (something I’m not too high on because next year his contract has value as a trade asset, but gives them immediate flexibility), they trade some of their veterans like Dnleavy or Hinrich, if they can sign Mirotic and start from a core made of Rose-Noah-Gibson-Butler-Mirotic plus Dunleavy, Hinrich or whatever they can get for them, plus the two first round picks they have this year they’re already in a good position (even if their pick it’s not a top 3 pick: I don’t think they are ever going to be tanking under Thibs), assuming the Bobcats hold on and gives them their first rounder. Such a team would be a contender for the playoffs in the Eastern, so it’s not like they’re asking Rose to be part of a losing team. I think what they did made a lot of sense, even if they never get that Sacramento’s first round pick (it’s top 12 protected this year, top 10 protected until 2017, and the Kings are likely to be awful for at least the next two seasons), especially considering they were going to lose Deng anyway.
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Posted on: Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:27am #860976

DolanCare
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Rose needs to STFU. They’ve been holding their breath for this guy, and despite him getting hurt again they aren’t giving up on him. Rose should have zero leverage when it comes to management — his fragility is why they are in this position.
As for Thibs: no one likes salary dumping and it must suck to coach a team that is tanking. That being said, moving Deng was a no brainer IMO. It would have been hard to keep him around and at least they got some immediate breathing room. Yes, it would have been nice to get an asset- but that wasn’t going to happen.
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Posted on: Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:27am #860871

DolanCare
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Rose needs to STFU. They’ve been holding their breath for this guy, and despite him getting hurt again they aren’t giving up on him. Rose should have zero leverage when it comes to management — his fragility is why they are in this position.
As for Thibs: no one likes salary dumping and it must suck to coach a team that is tanking. That being said, moving Deng was a no brainer IMO. It would have been hard to keep him around and at least they got some immediate breathing room. Yes, it would have been nice to get an asset- but that wasn’t going to happen.
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