This topic contains 30 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by 
Cynthia 12 years, 6 months ago.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 2:52am #53176
HitsterParticipantWhen checking down last night’s results today ( as you probably know I’m UK based), I saw that it was pointed out that Dirk had moved into 13th place on the all time NBA scoring list passing Alex English. Congrats to Dirk on this feat and it’s great to see him playing nearly as well as ever at 35 and after injury issues last year.
Taking a quick glance at the All Time points it still occured to me that Dirk is still 12,750 points behind Kareem. For fun I took a quick look at curent players who had about this many career points to put that into context.
Kevin Durant now into his 7th NBA season has only just gone past 13,000 career points and a solid veteran like Carlos Boozer now in his 12th season is on just under 12,500 points.
So when you think Dirk is now in his 16th NBA season and has franchise level career scoring stats, KD is an elite franchise level scorer in his 6 years plus in the NBA to date and they combined have only just surpassed Kareem’s total career points.
To put this into perspective, KD would potentially need to score at Dirk’s career level for 15 plus seasons to get near Kareem’s record and added to that until last season Dirk had missed very little of his career for injury.
Also using Boozer as a comparision adding his career points to Dirk’s, they still don’t equal Kareem’s and Boozer is a 17ppg player now in his 12th NBA season.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 5:43am #858679
Moon RiverParticipantWhy in the world has no one duplicated the hook shot?
Great work on the stats.
0- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 6:02am #858683
TallmanNYCParticipantPeople don’t shoot it because it is hard. And also because most NBA centers can get their shot off against highschool and college competition without shooting the hook. So they don’t develop it. And then once in the NBA where they might need it, it is too late.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 6:02am #858792
TallmanNYCParticipantPeople don’t shoot it because it is hard. And also because most NBA centers can get their shot off against highschool and college competition without shooting the hook. So they don’t develop it. And then once in the NBA where they might need it, it is too late.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 1:38pm #858913
IvoLParticipantwill be stupid but it’s not that easy to make that Shot like Kareem did, the hook shot is great move but doing it like Kareem it’s pretty hard in my mind i think
0 - Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 1:38pm #859019
IvoLParticipantwill be stupid but it’s not that easy to make that Shot like Kareem did, the hook shot is great move but doing it like Kareem it’s pretty hard in my mind i think
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 5:43am #858788
Moon RiverParticipantWhy in the world has no one duplicated the hook shot?
Great work on the stats.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 5:55am #858681
ReekoParticipant38,387 points over a 20 year career. Averaging 24ppg over that period of time, the reason why his record probably will never be touched is he was an elite player when he entered the league at 22, and still an elite player when he retired at 42. The way LBJ has been modifying his game over the past couple of years makes me think that he could potentially match Kareems durability and efficiency but I doubt he hits 38,000 when it’s all said and done.
0- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:09am #858711
TallmanNYCParticipantKD has better chance of catching Kareem than LBJ. I think LBJ won’t play quite as long because he will have plenty of championships and his game is pretty reliant on athleticism. Why would he still be suiting up after 36? KD might never win a chip and try to hang around as a three point shooting specialist for a long long time.
0- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:46am #858731
ReekoParticipantIt’s not like Kareem won 6 championships and stuck around until he was 42…. oh wait, that’s exactly what Kareem did. Just for the record I never stated that LBJ would catch Kareem in points scored, I feel that he can match his durability and efficiency i.e. playing for 20 plus seasons and having a fg% over 50 for his career. His game is not reliant at all on athleticism despite being supremely gifted in that area, Lebron’s bball IQ is through the roof, as he ages he’s just going to get craftier even if he does lose athleticism as he ages.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:46am #858840
ReekoParticipantIt’s not like Kareem won 6 championships and stuck around until he was 42…. oh wait, that’s exactly what Kareem did. Just for the record I never stated that LBJ would catch Kareem in points scored, I feel that he can match his durability and efficiency i.e. playing for 20 plus seasons and having a fg% over 50 for his career. His game is not reliant at all on athleticism despite being supremely gifted in that area, Lebron’s bball IQ is through the roof, as he ages he’s just going to get craftier even if he does lose athleticism as he ages.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:09am #858820
TallmanNYCParticipantKD has better chance of catching Kareem than LBJ. I think LBJ won’t play quite as long because he will have plenty of championships and his game is pretty reliant on athleticism. Why would he still be suiting up after 36? KD might never win a chip and try to hang around as a three point shooting specialist for a long long time.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 5:55am #858790
ReekoParticipant38,387 points over a 20 year career. Averaging 24ppg over that period of time, the reason why his record probably will never be touched is he was an elite player when he entered the league at 22, and still an elite player when he retired at 42. The way LBJ has been modifying his game over the past couple of years makes me think that he could potentially match Kareems durability and efficiency but I doubt he hits 38,000 when it’s all said and done.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 6:28am #858685
HitsterParticipantGreat point that no-one has tried to replicate the "Sky Hook" and it is a move that just could not be learnt mid NBA career or the players who might need to develop it earlier probably don’t have the skillset to do so anyway.
The scary thing about Kareem is if he had entered the NBA at say 19 or 20 then he could have been more productive in those earlier years than he was in his last couple of seasons and would have probably got past 40,000 points.
Another thing that jumped out at me from his stats was that in 1985/86 when he was 38 going into 39, he still averaged 23.4ppg and 3.5apg playing 79 games that year. I doubt that any current NBA C will have stats as good as that this season and the only frontcourter currently averaging more ppg this season than Kareem that year is KLove and KLove should be near his peak now while Kareem was already the leading ever NBA scorer than and nearing 40.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 6:28am #858794
HitsterParticipantGreat point that no-one has tried to replicate the "Sky Hook" and it is a move that just could not be learnt mid NBA career or the players who might need to develop it earlier probably don’t have the skillset to do so anyway.
The scary thing about Kareem is if he had entered the NBA at say 19 or 20 then he could have been more productive in those earlier years than he was in his last couple of seasons and would have probably got past 40,000 points.
Another thing that jumped out at me from his stats was that in 1985/86 when he was 38 going into 39, he still averaged 23.4ppg and 3.5apg playing 79 games that year. I doubt that any current NBA C will have stats as good as that this season and the only frontcourter currently averaging more ppg this season than Kareem that year is KLove and KLove should be near his peak now while Kareem was already the leading ever NBA scorer than and nearing 40.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:00am #858709
bloodKareem is the most underrated player ever. He is the second best player ever,and even if you said hes best you cannot be wrong.Won it by himself,won it with magic,mvp,allstar,alltime scorer,most unstopable move what can you ask more from a guy ??
But LeBron James will be the greatest scorer ever when its all done.Ofc if he doesnt retire after 6 in a row
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:00am #858818
bloodKareem is the most underrated player ever. He is the second best player ever,and even if you said hes best you cannot be wrong.Won it by himself,won it with magic,mvp,allstar,alltime scorer,most unstopable move what can you ask more from a guy ??
But LeBron James will be the greatest scorer ever when its all done.Ofc if he doesnt retire after 6 in a row
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:43am #858729
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantIt’s too bad that Kobe Bryant will miss pretty much this entire season. If he had played last year and this year (and if he had played 50 more games combined from the strike shortened 1999 and 2012 seasons) he would probably be sitting at close to 35000 points by the end of this season.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:43am #858838
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantIt’s too bad that Kobe Bryant will miss pretty much this entire season. If he had played last year and this year (and if he had played 50 more games combined from the strike shortened 1999 and 2012 seasons) he would probably be sitting at close to 35000 points by the end of this season.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:09pm #858900
CynthiaParticipantKareem was great, but he also was extremely tall especially for his era. This no doubt helped him get to the point tallies he ended up with. Not to discredit him, but he was 7’2 going against Centers that were around 6’9 on average(there were a few exceptions). 6’9 Centers now days are considered "undersized" heck even some consider 6’9 Power Forwards undersized as well. That’s a 5 inch difference, which in basketball is a pretty big deal; for example if someone was 6’2 they would be typical size for a Point Guard, add 5 inches and at 6’7 they’re much more suited to be a Shooting Guard(or even Small Forward). When you look at it that way it’s almost as if Kareem was going against guys an entire position smaller. Now add in the fact he has that beautiful skyhook which further heightened his shot away from his opponents, this made his shot nearly unblockable. Not being blocked is going to net you a lot more points in the long run.
If Kareem played in the 90s or even in todays NBA where 7 foot Centers are plentiful I think he’d still be an elite player, but he would not be near the force he was in his time. The same can obviously be said for Wilt Chamberlain. I think if Kareem played in todays game he’d be more along the lines of Tim Duncan, not really athletic or physically overpowering but fundamentally sound and with a superb basketball IQ. He’d be able to get his points for sure, but he would not be near the point total he has for playing in the 70s & 80s.
Highly skilled 7 footers are extremely rare, even in todays NBA. He was just simply too much for opponents to handle back then. I can’t help but to think of someone like Brook Lopez, he’s 7’0 and very skilled in the post, but against the Centers of today he’s just considered above average. Put Brook Lopez in the 70s and I think he’d be scoring 25-30 PPG with no problems.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 8:09pm #858793
CynthiaParticipantKareem was great, but he also was extremely tall especially for his era. This no doubt helped him get to the point tallies he ended up with. Not to discredit him, but he was 7’2 going against Centers that were around 6’9 on average(there were a few exceptions). 6’9 Centers now days are considered "undersized" heck even some consider 6’9 Power Forwards undersized as well. That’s a 5 inch difference, which in basketball is a pretty big deal; for example if someone was 6’2 they would be typical size for a Point Guard, add 5 inches and at 6’7 they’re much more suited to be a Shooting Guard(or even Small Forward). When you look at it that way it’s almost as if Kareem was going against guys an entire position smaller. Now add in the fact he has that beautiful skyhook which further heightened his shot away from his opponents, this made his shot nearly unblockable. Not being blocked is going to net you a lot more points in the long run.
If Kareem played in the 90s or even in todays NBA where 7 foot Centers are plentiful I think he’d still be an elite player, but he would not be near the force he was in his time. The same can obviously be said for Wilt Chamberlain. I think if Kareem played in todays game he’d be more along the lines of Tim Duncan, not really athletic or physically overpowering but fundamentally sound and with a superb basketball IQ. He’d be able to get his points for sure, but he would not be near the point total he has for playing in the 70s & 80s.
Highly skilled 7 footers are extremely rare, even in todays NBA. He was just simply too much for opponents to handle back then. I can’t help but to think of someone like Brook Lopez, he’s 7’0 and very skilled in the post, but against the Centers of today he’s just considered above average. Put Brook Lopez in the 70s and I think he’d be scoring 25-30 PPG with no problems.
0- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 9:11pm #858910
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantNot to discredit him, but he was 7’2 going against Centers that were around 6’9 on average(there were a few exceptions). 6’9 Centers now days are considered “undersized”
If Kareem played in the 90s or even in todays NBA where 7 foot Centers are plentiful
———————————————————————————————————————————————–A bit of a misconception. Players back in the 70s were usually measured barefoot. That began to change in the 80s. 7 foot centers are not “plentiful” nowadays, Dwight Howard for instance is 6’9 barefoot. Brook Lopez is 6-11 barefoot and would not have been of exceptional height in the 70s. Even in todays NBA Kareem would be on average about 3 inches taller than most centers, more skilled than any other center, and more athletic than someone like a Lopez, Jefferson, Marc Gasol or Gortat.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 9:11pm #858803
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantNot to discredit him, but he was 7’2 going against Centers that were around 6’9 on average(there were a few exceptions). 6’9 Centers now days are considered “undersized”
If Kareem played in the 90s or even in todays NBA where 7 foot Centers are plentiful
———————————————————————————————————————————————–A bit of a misconception. Players back in the 70s were usually measured barefoot. That began to change in the 80s. 7 foot centers are not “plentiful” nowadays, Dwight Howard for instance is 6’9 barefoot. Brook Lopez is 6-11 barefoot and would not have been of exceptional height in the 70s. Even in todays NBA Kareem would be on average about 3 inches taller than most centers, more skilled than any other center, and more athletic than someone like a Lopez, Jefferson, Marc Gasol or Gortat.
0- Posted on: Thu, 12/26/2013 - 2:07am #858993
CynthiaParticipantShoes or not Brook Lopez at 6’11 is still predominantly taller than most centers in that era. I’m glad you brought Dwight into the discussion and made a fool of yourself, yes Dwight is around the size of his competion, but Dwight is probably the most athletic big man of all time and would have no issues blocking Kareems shots, especially compared to the tree trunks of the 70s whos vert was non-existent.
There is about 40 legit 7 footers in the league right now, back then there was about 5. Toss in the athleticism effect that is more common these days and Kareem will as I said still be ELITE but he would not be the unstoppable force he was in the 70s.
There’s a difference in being elite and being untouchable. I have no doubts he’d be dropping 20 PPG now days, but he would not be dropping 30 PPG.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 12/26/2013 - 2:07am #859100
CynthiaParticipantShoes or not Brook Lopez at 6’11 is still predominantly taller than most centers in that era. I’m glad you brought Dwight into the discussion and made a fool of yourself, yes Dwight is around the size of his competion, but Dwight is probably the most athletic big man of all time and would have no issues blocking Kareems shots, especially compared to the tree trunks of the 70s whos vert was non-existent.
There is about 40 legit 7 footers in the league right now, back then there was about 5. Toss in the athleticism effect that is more common these days and Kareem will as I said still be ELITE but he would not be the unstoppable force he was in the 70s.
There’s a difference in being elite and being untouchable. I have no doubts he’d be dropping 20 PPG now days, but he would not be dropping 30 PPG.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 9:58pm #858912
bloodHe played regularly against guys like WILT to young Akeem,Ewing,Chief and McHale,Unseld,Lanier etc… You could say that he played in an era where best bigmen ever played and he still dominated like a few others,even at 33 to 40.Look at Garnet for instance he”s falling appart for last few seasons.Kareem was impactfull player at 40+ years and playing the toughtest postition especially in those times.
0 - Posted on: Tue, 12/24/2013 - 9:58pm #858805
bloodHe played regularly against guys like WILT to young Akeem,Ewing,Chief and McHale,Unseld,Lanier etc… You could say that he played in an era where best bigmen ever played and he still dominated like a few others,even at 33 to 40.Look at Garnet for instance he”s falling appart for last few seasons.Kareem was impactfull player at 40+ years and playing the toughtest postition especially in those times.
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- Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 12:58am #858924
bloodguy averaged 14 and 7 in at 41 years !! Every puts Hibbert at statrting C in ASG with those type of number :S smh wtf is u talking bout b
0 - Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 12:58am #858817
bloodguy averaged 14 and 7 in at 41 years !! Every puts Hibbert at statrting C in ASG with those type of number :S smh wtf is u talking bout b
0 - Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 6:48am #858946
HitsterParticipantIf Kareem had player further into and during the Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq era then he would have faced more competition. But if you even put a 35 year old plus Kareem into today’s NBA, I reckon he’d still be the best C and probably the best front courter in the NBA.
If anyone will get near the record I think it may be LBJ as Durant still has hell of a way to go as I said above and someone like Melo is still 3,000 points behind LBJ. But LBJ would probably need to play until he was about 37 and that is if he remained largely injury free and only had a small scoring drop off in his mid 30’s.
Kobe was virtually injury free his entire career until this year and the lockouts probably cost him 1,000 points, I just want to see him return fit but to get near Kareem now may be difficult.
The one guy who would have probably put the record out of site is of course Michael Jordan who retired for nearly two seasons at his peak and then had another 3 seasons between his 2nd and 3rd comeback. Also add in he only played 18 games in 1984-85. The two missed seasons in 1993-94 and 1994-95 legitimately cost a fit MJ maybe 4,000 to 4,500 points alone. If he had played on another couple of seasons at Chicago instead of coming back at Washington that would have likely given him another 1,200 to 1,500 points. With the 1984-85 season maybe costing him another 2,000 points, even if we discount the Washington comeback that would have put MJ past Kareem and near to 40,000 points.
It’s still ironic that MJ’s Washington comeback is not seen as a great success yet he was scoring at nearly 23ppg at 39 and 20ppg at 40 rather like Kareem at a similar age.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 12/25/2013 - 6:48am #858839
HitsterParticipantIf Kareem had player further into and during the Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq era then he would have faced more competition. But if you even put a 35 year old plus Kareem into today’s NBA, I reckon he’d still be the best C and probably the best front courter in the NBA.
If anyone will get near the record I think it may be LBJ as Durant still has hell of a way to go as I said above and someone like Melo is still 3,000 points behind LBJ. But LBJ would probably need to play until he was about 37 and that is if he remained largely injury free and only had a small scoring drop off in his mid 30’s.
Kobe was virtually injury free his entire career until this year and the lockouts probably cost him 1,000 points, I just want to see him return fit but to get near Kareem now may be difficult.
The one guy who would have probably put the record out of site is of course Michael Jordan who retired for nearly two seasons at his peak and then had another 3 seasons between his 2nd and 3rd comeback. Also add in he only played 18 games in 1984-85. The two missed seasons in 1993-94 and 1994-95 legitimately cost a fit MJ maybe 4,000 to 4,500 points alone. If he had played on another couple of seasons at Chicago instead of coming back at Washington that would have likely given him another 1,200 to 1,500 points. With the 1984-85 season maybe costing him another 2,000 points, even if we discount the Washington comeback that would have put MJ past Kareem and near to 40,000 points.
It’s still ironic that MJ’s Washington comeback is not seen as a great success yet he was scoring at nearly 23ppg at 39 and 20ppg at 40 rather like Kareem at a similar age.
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