Jumping off Kyrie Irving and the Cavs

This topic contains 26 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Sharp Shooter 12 years, 6 months ago.

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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 5:39pm #53000

nick5354
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Don’t let the title mistake you, I have not jumped off him or them but others have.
Let me say Wow. Only 22 games have been played and people seem to be really jumping off the Cavs.

I think starting off the season at 8-13 is not to bad. I expected a slow start to the season. You can tell the team is having chemistry issues and rightly so. They are still working out how to play with Bynum. He has looked GREAT and the Cavs havent had a player like Bynum in recent years so they are starting to find out what works and how to use him best. Cavs have had a few new players too such as Clark, Jack and the rookes. Combine this with the new Defensive system, opposite to that of Scotts, it takes time to have all the pieces fall together in game and see them wins.

I still think this team has a lot going for it. I might be the only one on here at the moment who thinks Waiters should stay a Cav and be starting. I just like the idea of having two slashing players who love to get to the hoop and love that waiters plays with a chip on his shoulder. Once they find there SF of the future this team will be even beter.

Tristian Thompson is a having a great year. His offensive game has loooked better and is a walking double double. Remember people laughing at him saying we should have had Jonas V? TT has been playing better.

Bynum has been beasting it too and playing good ball. I like the three bigs of Andy V, TT and Bynum. It makes for a strong front court, love the energy Wildthing comes off with of the bench.

Jack is starting to play better too, and once he settles in the Cleveland he will prove a great Veteran leadership on one of the youngest teams in the league.

And don;t worry about Bennett I think he has a great all round game and just looks like a deer caught in headlights. Good things happen to those who wait so I am not keen on jumping on the bust bandwagon killing an already fragile players confidence. He has the tools hopefully he can get his confidence up and play naturally not forcing shots.

The East is very weak so the cavs are only a few wins outside 8th spot. I think the cavs second half of the season will be much better then the first 20 odd games. Irving and the rest of the players will get adjusted to each other and Browns defensive system.

I really believe this team can grow together and have a much better above .500 next 50ish games.

Secondly, I have noticed heaps of people massively jumping off Kyrie Irving, some guys on here have even gone as far to say they don’t rate him much all together. I think Irvings slow start to the year is adjusting to the new system Brown has put in and that is why his FG% have fallen so much. New system, especially a defensive system will take an offensive guard a while to adjust to.

His start to his carrer has been historic so i would be wary to start to underrate him. I think his defensive has actually been better this year. I was watching Cavs vs New york today and heard that home games this year Kyrie has held his opponents to only 10 points and 29% FG (against players such as Wall, Lawson and Paul). He needs more consistency on D but this is a step in the right direction.

He is easily the best ball handler in the game, and best I have seen quite a while. He is the current 3 point champ and does freakish things no other player in the league can do on a regular basis like Irving. Example today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNIZjE04iU

I just found it insane at how people where really liking the Cavs 20 games ago and some said how much superstar Kyrie had in him.

One little thing I need to address finally, I was going to post this in the appropriate thread but it has went down to the bottom my comment which I feel strongly in wouldn’t be seen.

Why has everyone all of a sudden think Wall is better then Kyrie?

Even if you just look at this years stats of which is a down year for kyrie and a good year for Wall.

Wall plays more mintues then kyrie so I will use per 36 stats.

Wall – FG .413% // 3% .324 // Boards 4.2 // Ast 9.1 // Stl 2.2 // TO 3.3 // Pts 18.7

Kyrie – FG .394% // 3% .304 // Boards 3.5 // Ast 6 // Stl 0.9 // TO 3.4 // Pts 20.6

Now I do agree Wall is play better then Kyrie but these are carrers HIGHs for wall and carrer LOWS for Kyrie. So this year, yes, he is the better player. But no one seems to acknowledge that Kyrie has been playing like flith thsis year.

If we compare carrer highs of the two players Kyrie has shown that is is the much better player.

Last year he was netting – FG .452% // 3% .391 // Boards 3.8 // Ast 6.2 // Stl 1.6 // TO 3.4 // 23.3

So I think it is important to note that it is more of a case of Kyrie having a down year then Wall being the better player. Kyrie has so much more potential then Wall. Yes, Wall is crazy atheletic but he is insanely ineffient when it comes to his offensive game. I think Kyrie has the best, most complete offensive game in a PG that I have seen ever, given I am only 20 so can only judge what I have watched in my limited time.

AND people seem to be forgetting Kyrie is 21 and Wall is 23, Kyrie is 2 years younger!!

I think this is not mentioned much in this dissussion. Kyrie still has a lot of time to become a more allround player. When Kyrie is 23 i expect him to post MUCH BETTER stats then Wall has this year.

In conclusion, don;t jump of the Cavs and Kyrie!!

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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 6:33pm #855863

ItsRainingNegs
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I think the people jumping off of the Kyrie bandwagon isn’t even laughable. On the preseason votes on this thread Kyrie was the top PG in five years, the prophetic ball handler with the finishing ability of pornographic Manu Ginobili and the ability to hit any shot on the floor. Now he’s garbage? His defense is fine gripe and he’s not LeBron. But he’s not going to regress into an afterthought Far from it. He has all of the tools. Literally everything you’d want in a point guard. Yeah he’s not on Rondo’s level as a passer but Tony Parker was/is never described that way and I think they have similar skill sets, only Kyrie has more.
If somebody really thinks this is the end for Kyrie then state your case.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 6:33pm #855756

ItsRainingNegs
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I think the people jumping off of the Kyrie bandwagon isn’t even laughable. On the preseason votes on this thread Kyrie was the top PG in five years, the prophetic ball handler with the finishing ability of pornographic Manu Ginobili and the ability to hit any shot on the floor. Now he’s garbage? His defense is fine gripe and he’s not LeBron. But he’s not going to regress into an afterthought Far from it. He has all of the tools. Literally everything you’d want in a point guard. Yeah he’s not on Rondo’s level as a passer but Tony Parker was/is never described that way and I think they have similar skill sets, only Kyrie has more.
If somebody really thinks this is the end for Kyrie then state your case.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 6:40pm #855869

Entropy
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Yeh the cavs are and never were out of the playoff race, it is too early to make conculsions like that. I really like tristan and bynum (probably been there 2 best players) if they are consistent cavs will win games and probably make the playoffs.
About kyrie and wall, Wall was better last year as well so it’s not all of a sudden people think wall is better. It’s just that now people see that if irving’s shot isn’t falling he is really not very useful . Wall’s last 40 games he is putting up 21.5/9/4.5 PER of 24. In contrast Kyrie has been palying very poorly since the all star break last sesaon. If his shot isn’t falling don’t expect him to make the impact wall does.
I will be surprised if wall doesn’t start in the all star game.
BTW wall only has 1 year extra NBA experience.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 6:40pm #855762

Entropy
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Yeh the cavs are and never were out of the playoff race, it is too early to make conculsions like that. I really like tristan and bynum (probably been there 2 best players) if they are consistent cavs will win games and probably make the playoffs.
About kyrie and wall, Wall was better last year as well so it’s not all of a sudden people think wall is better. It’s just that now people see that if irving’s shot isn’t falling he is really not very useful . Wall’s last 40 games he is putting up 21.5/9/4.5 PER of 24. In contrast Kyrie has been palying very poorly since the all star break last sesaon. If his shot isn’t falling don’t expect him to make the impact wall does.
I will be surprised if wall doesn’t start in the all star game.
BTW wall only has 1 year extra NBA experience.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:09pm #855877

3 No Biases 3
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Kyrie is a street baller.. Hes no different than Gilbert Arenas. He’s as active as a tree on defense and plays mixtape ball on offense. He’s very overrated by people who just look at boxscores and highlight reels. He puts up empty stats in the fourth quarter when the game is out of reach as well..
The wall vs kyrie thing to me is stupid. Wall is a leader who is very passionate about wins who has court vision and insane athleticism. Kyrie is Gilbert Arenas 2.0. Likes to make highlight reels and wow the crowd. I dont know why these two get compared so much..,they are completely different. Someone who has watched both these guys play on a consistent basis would take Wall everyday. Highlight reels and box scores suggest Kyrie, but watch their games and its clear who affects the game more.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:09pm #855770

3 No Biases 3
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Kyrie is a street baller.. Hes no different than Gilbert Arenas. He’s as active as a tree on defense and plays mixtape ball on offense. He’s very overrated by people who just look at boxscores and highlight reels. He puts up empty stats in the fourth quarter when the game is out of reach as well..
The wall vs kyrie thing to me is stupid. Wall is a leader who is very passionate about wins who has court vision and insane athleticism. Kyrie is Gilbert Arenas 2.0. Likes to make highlight reels and wow the crowd. I dont know why these two get compared so much..,they are completely different. Someone who has watched both these guys play on a consistent basis would take Wall everyday. Highlight reels and box scores suggest Kyrie, but watch their games and its clear who affects the game more.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:44pm #855885
  
  nick5354
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  Kyrie is a leader too, so I don;t know where you are getting the impression that Wall is a leader of his team and Irving is not. During the summer Kyrie really took charge of this team. He had his team mates flying around the country to practice with him and the team, putting in extra work when most players where off having a holiday. After the sub far start to the year it was Kyrie Irving who called everyone for a team meeting to sort out what is up with the team. Kyrie Irving also was the one who took it upon himself to try and help recuit Bynum. Finally, he also takes it upon himself to really lead his team to victory when it is on the line as seen with so many game winners in such a short carer and his clutch play.
  Make no mistake, Kyrie Irving as as much or even more of a leader then John Wall, and again, he is 2 years younger, making it even more significant.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:44pm #855778
  
  nick5354
  Participant
  Kyrie is a leader too, so I don;t know where you are getting the impression that Wall is a leader of his team and Irving is not. During the summer Kyrie really took charge of this team. He had his team mates flying around the country to practice with him and the team, putting in extra work when most players where off having a holiday. After the sub far start to the year it was Kyrie Irving who called everyone for a team meeting to sort out what is up with the team. Kyrie Irving also was the one who took it upon himself to try and help recuit Bynum. Finally, he also takes it upon himself to really lead his team to victory when it is on the line as seen with so many game winners in such a short carer and his clutch play.
  Make no mistake, Kyrie Irving as as much or even more of a leader then John Wall, and again, he is 2 years younger, making it even more significant.
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- Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 4:19am #855901
  
  draftmangt
  Participant
  Look i think he gotten more praise and attention than he deserves but this post takes things way to far. Other than his rookie year where he only took 8 shoots per game Arenas has never shot 45% from the field for a season ,Irving has shot has 45% his first two years in the league and no one would be shocked if he finished this season around that same number. "He’s as active as a tree on defense" That statements just flat out false, hes not a lock down defender but definitely gives solid effort. " He puts up empty stats in the fourth quarter when the game is out of reach" again another false statement, in Irvings short career his lead a number of 4th quarter comebacks and hit numerous game winning shot and when games have been out of reach Irving’s been on the bench not putting up empty stats.
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- Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 4:19am #855794
  
  draftmangt
  Participant
  Look i think he gotten more praise and attention than he deserves but this post takes things way to far. Other than his rookie year where he only took 8 shoots per game Arenas has never shot 45% from the field for a season ,Irving has shot has 45% his first two years in the league and no one would be shocked if he finished this season around that same number. "He’s as active as a tree on defense" That statements just flat out false, hes not a lock down defender but definitely gives solid effort. " He puts up empty stats in the fourth quarter when the game is out of reach" again another false statement, in Irvings short career his lead a number of 4th quarter comebacks and hit numerous game winning shot and when games have been out of reach Irving’s been on the bench not putting up empty stats.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:42pm #855883

NJHooper95
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I think Wall is having a terrific season, but I am not ready to concede that Wall is better. First off, they are different types of players, Wall is the better all around guy, but Kyrie is an offensive juggernaut. Only Kyrie can stop Kryie. He has a jumper, long range, midrange, post game, handle, moves, good but not great passer, and is clutch. Kyrie has won more of the head to head match ups against Wall stastically and with wins. Wall is more of a pure pg and a Kryie more of a scoring pg, but I can’t say wall is the better pg, it depends on what you need for your team. Kyrie has a killer instinct and the arsenal to match it. I don’t think you can go wrong with either, but give me Kyrie anyday. Lastly people have to remember that it takes times to learn under a new coach, new offensive, playing with a dominant big, and a bunch of new teammates. Even Kyrie and Waiters are still trying to learn each other, both of them missed a lot of games last season.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 8:42pm #855776

NJHooper95
Participant
I think Wall is having a terrific season, but I am not ready to concede that Wall is better. First off, they are different types of players, Wall is the better all around guy, but Kyrie is an offensive juggernaut. Only Kyrie can stop Kryie. He has a jumper, long range, midrange, post game, handle, moves, good but not great passer, and is clutch. Kyrie has won more of the head to head match ups against Wall stastically and with wins. Wall is more of a pure pg and a Kryie more of a scoring pg, but I can’t say wall is the better pg, it depends on what you need for your team. Kyrie has a killer instinct and the arsenal to match it. I don’t think you can go wrong with either, but give me Kyrie anyday. Lastly people have to remember that it takes times to learn under a new coach, new offensive, playing with a dominant big, and a bunch of new teammates. Even Kyrie and Waiters are still trying to learn each other, both of them missed a lot of games last season.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 9:02pm #855887
  
  Entropy
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  I would take wall, give me the better player . Irving is a better socrer though, so if my team needed scoring and i didn’t have good other scoring options on my team i would probably take Irving. But even then wall has been a better scorer this year.
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- Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 9:02pm #855780
  
  Entropy
  Participant
  I would take wall, give me the better player . Irving is a better socrer though, so if my team needed scoring and i didn’t have good other scoring options on my team i would probably take Irving. But even then wall has been a better scorer this year.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 9:37pm #855889

JCliff24
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37 and 11 tonight. "Well that escalated quickly"
Kyrie has been poor all season, often looking to do too much. I think everyone wanted to be the hero on this cavalier team. Tristan had so much to prove, Dion had so much to prove, Kyrie had so many expectations. I think when the dust clears we will see Cleveland emerge as a second half of the season type of team. It will take time to mold together. I saw a lot of Jarrett Jack at PG tonight with Kyrie playing off the ball, loved it. 1 game out of 9th and the Cavs all but missed fans expectations thus far. As a Cavaliers fan, I’m not worried. With time, they will look like a consistent playoff team.
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Posted on: Tue, 12/10/2013 - 9:37pm #855782

JCliff24
Participant
37 and 11 tonight. "Well that escalated quickly"
Kyrie has been poor all season, often looking to do too much. I think everyone wanted to be the hero on this cavalier team. Tristan had so much to prove, Dion had so much to prove, Kyrie had so many expectations. I think when the dust clears we will see Cleveland emerge as a second half of the season type of team. It will take time to mold together. I saw a lot of Jarrett Jack at PG tonight with Kyrie playing off the ball, loved it. 1 game out of 9th and the Cavs all but missed fans expectations thus far. As a Cavaliers fan, I’m not worried. With time, they will look like a consistent playoff team.
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 12:10am #855893

Anton123
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I’m a Cavs fan and I admit I was pretty down on them the past few months because they were playing extremely ugly ball.
Having said that, I still think they have very good potential as a team since most of the players are still figuring either the system or NBA ball in general out. If Cleveland plays up to their potential, they can be a top 3 team in the East (partially because the East really sucks right now).
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 12:10am #855786

Anton123
Participant
I’m a Cavs fan and I admit I was pretty down on them the past few months because they were playing extremely ugly ball.
Having said that, I still think they have very good potential as a team since most of the players are still figuring either the system or NBA ball in general out. If Cleveland plays up to their potential, they can be a top 3 team in the East (partially because the East really sucks right now).
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 7:10am #855812

surve
Participant
the problem is…basketball fans are so fickle. I have never wavered from my belief that John Wall will be a top 3 pg and when he does, it will be for years to come. people like For_Ever_Never tried to bring up small sample sizes about Bledsoe and saying Wall isnt better. meanwhile, I will never move away from my stance. a lot of people on here blasted myself for saying Wall will be better than Rubio. I dont get it. have your opinions but that doesnt mean someone else is obsurd, especially after a guy is temporarily in the dumps.
when the season started this year…I had several arguments about Kyrie not being as great as people claim. not being better than Wall in the long run. people take that as a diss. its not. Kyrie is a wonderful superstar…but people think that because he is the best iso player in the league or one of them that makes him the best PG. NO. if thats the case Melo is a top 3 player.
there is more to the game than scoring and iso. Kyrie could still be a top 3 pg for years to come, but he is still a lot of potential that is unrealized. he has to become adept at getting his teammates involved. also, circumstances have to be right. as Wall’s teammates get better so will he. Kyrie may be in the wrong system presently…and also…I dont agree with the building that the Cavs have done through the draft. they have made a lot of questionable decisions. so being a great player is not entirely up to Kyrie.

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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 7:10am #855919

surve
Participant
the problem is…basketball fans are so fickle. I have never wavered from my belief that John Wall will be a top 3 pg and when he does, it will be for years to come. people like For_Ever_Never tried to bring up small sample sizes about Bledsoe and saying Wall isnt better. meanwhile, I will never move away from my stance. a lot of people on here blasted myself for saying Wall will be better than Rubio. I dont get it. have your opinions but that doesnt mean someone else is obsurd, especially after a guy is temporarily in the dumps.
when the season started this year…I had several arguments about Kyrie not being as great as people claim. not being better than Wall in the long run. people take that as a diss. its not. Kyrie is a wonderful superstar…but people think that because he is the best iso player in the league or one of them that makes him the best PG. NO. if thats the case Melo is a top 3 player.
there is more to the game than scoring and iso. Kyrie could still be a top 3 pg for years to come, but he is still a lot of potential that is unrealized. he has to become adept at getting his teammates involved. also, circumstances have to be right. as Wall’s teammates get better so will he. Kyrie may be in the wrong system presently…and also…I dont agree with the building that the Cavs have done through the draft. they have made a lot of questionable decisions. so being a great player is not entirely up to Kyrie.

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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 7:25am #855818

wrector
Participant
Well put. People just lack patience, the Cavs got a major face lift over the offseason and people expected everything to click within the first couple games lol
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 7:25am #855925

wrector
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Well put. People just lack patience, the Cavs got a major face lift over the offseason and people expected everything to click within the first couple games lol
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 8:14am #855826

FastAndFurious
Participant
I love Wall and think he has the higher ceiling for sure.
But man I aint gon lie Kyrie destroyed him big big time earlier this year and Wall let him, I questioned Walls heart after that game.
No way someone is dropping 41 on me and I do nothing!

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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 8:14am #855933

FastAndFurious
Participant
I love Wall and think he has the higher ceiling for sure.
But man I aint gon lie Kyrie destroyed him big big time earlier this year and Wall let him, I questioned Walls heart after that game.
No way someone is dropping 41 on me and I do nothing!

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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 4:17pm #855896

Sharp Shooter
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Kyrie is that you?
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Posted on: Wed, 12/11/2013 - 4:17pm #856003

Sharp Shooter
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Kyrie is that you?
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