This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Kayjay 11 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #44257
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    bloodshy
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    Despite Kobe’s proclamation that everyone doubting his team is "dumb" or "idiotic," Lakers’ fans should be worried.

    The Lakers have started 0-2 for the first time in over 50 years and will likely be 0-3 in a few hours. And it’s very possible they never pull it together enough to be real contenders. In addition to their average offensive production, their D is terrible. And while there’s plenty of reason to believe their offense should pull things together with more time, there’s plenty of reason to suspect their D never will.

    The Lakers’ two biggest problems are (1) they have a terrible bench and (2) their guards/wings cannot defend. Neither of those issues are going to change. Kobe/Meta have old legs. They simply cannot hang with talented your legs anymore on D. There was a time both were standout defenders. Those days are long gone. And Nash has been a swinging door for years. Every athletic pg that wants to spend all night in the Lakers’ paint can do so, keeping the entire team off balance–and that’s when the Lakers’ dominant players are on the floor. When the starters leave, it gets uglier. I simply can see no way the Lakers can fix this structural deficiency. They simply don’t have the personnel to even slow down the West’s top pgs. If Howard returns to his Orlando form on D (big if) it will help, but even that likely won’t be enough.

    Next topic:

    In a previous thread when Nash was acquired, I stated that LA’s history of terrible point guard play over the last 15+ years should not just be blamed on the pgs. Kobe’s ball dominant style (which has not disappeared with the arrival of Nash) kills a pgs ability to be a play maker. It generally works well with bigs, but is incompatible with a play making pg.

    Several years ago the Lakers got an influx of talented vets (Payton/Malone), and surprisingly, the team did not improve. It’s true both vets were already on the decline, but they were far better than they were allowed to be on Kobe’s team. Consider the stats:

    Gary Payton (2002-03/Bucks Avgs): 19.6 ppg, 7.4 apg, 1.4 spg

    Gary Payton (2003-04/LAL Avgs): 14.6 ppg, 5.5 apg, 1.2 spg

    Karl Malone (2002-03/Jazz Avgs): 20.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.3 apg

    Karl Malone (2003-04/LAL Avgs): 13.3 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.9 apg

    Karl Malone’s stat decline was partly due to injury (he missed half of the season) and, as I mentioned, Kobe has generally played well with bigs. But Payton’s numbers are legitimate. He was healthy and started 82 games that year, but with Kobe, Payton could not flourish. He went from being a 20/7 pg to being a 15/5 pg overnight. We are only two games into this season, so averages should be taken with a grain of salt. However, Nash is now 2 for 2 on historically bad games for him and it seems almost certain that he’ll have the worst season of his career since becoming a starter. Although the sample size is way too small to draw any real conclusions, thus far things are looking terrible for Nash:

    Nash (2011-12 Suns Avgs): 12.5 ppg, 10.7 apg, 31 MPG

    Nash (2012-13 LAL Avgs): 4.5 ppg, 4.0 apg, 25 MPG

    As for Nash’s vaunted 50/40/90 shooting percentages? Thus far he’s 33/20/(no free throws yet) in yellow and purple. The Lakers, led by Kobe Bryant, is a place playmaking pgs cannot thrive. Kobe, and Lakers’ fans generally, have used their weak pg play as a primary scapegoat for years. Payton and Nash demonstrate that the problems run deeper.  I predicted when Nash was traded that he would average no better than 8 ppg and 7 apg this season and that his 50/40/90 days were behind him.

    I’m still predicting that the Lakers will be a playoff team. After an 0-3 start they’ll bounce back and be around .500 after ten games. And they’ll likely finish in the 3-6 range in the West. But they won’t make the finals. The first team they face with elite pg play will end them in the playoffs, and it’s hard to avoid those teams out West.

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  • #725657
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    iguapops420
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     Payton failed because he was a pg who played primarily out of the post and didn’t have the room to play "HIS" game. Shaq, Malone, Kobe, and GP all played out the post which made things tough for Gary. NVE never had a problem playing with Kobe. Nash has stated himself he doesn’t want to come down court and just play P&R. A system offense has been implemented that no one completely knows. Mike Brown said he wants to take the team through tough times and growing to learn the offense so that the team won’t have to play one-dimensional come playoff time. Running Steve Nash P&R is fun, but what has it got him in the post season? Kobe and crew will eventually get things together and find themselves. Until then, join the rest of the world hating on LAL loving that they’re losing. Because The Lakeshow like everyone expects, will rise from the pit they are in and go on a run, dominating the L at the right time and hopefully use that staright through the playoffs and continue into next year.

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    • #725693
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      bloodshy
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      A further demonstration of how Kobe destroys playmaking pgs is your reference to Nick Van Exel, who you claim played well with Kobe. First, he played just one year with Kobe. Second, even as a rookie Kobe was able to drag Exel down:

      NVE (1996-97 Pre-Kobe): 15.3 ppg, 8.5 apg

      NVE (1997-98 Only Year with Kobe): 13.8 ppg, 6.9 apg

      NVE (1998-99 on Denver): 16.5 ppg, 7.4 apg

      PGs decline when they play next to Kobe. It’s that simple. NVE did. Payton did. Nash is/will. I find it funny that Lakers fans always blame others rather than take ownership of their internal failures. Gary Payton failed because he wanted to play "HIS" game and wouldn’t adjust? There are similar excuses for everyone else they’ve had.  These excuses for Kobe’s inability to play alongside a playmaking pg are getting tired… they’ve played too many minutes over the last 17 years.

       

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  • #725698
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    fcb206
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    I think people are overreacting. Its two games, and they are still breaking in two new players who were entrenched as The Man on their old teams. if anyone thought this group was going to hit the ground running and win 60+ games, they were fooling themselves. There will be an adjustment period. sooner or later everyone will realize its better for everyone if kobe plays off the ball. nash and howard on the pick and roll is going to be money once they get the chemistry problems dialed. Kobe will realize its alot more fun to shoot open jumpers and finish at the rim on back cuts than it is to try and break the other teams best defender down off the dribble every time he wants a shot.

    its gonna be ugly for a few weeks, but this team will figure it out. they will win 50-ish games and be dialed by the playoffs. After the Harden trade, its their conference to lose, even with an 0-2 start. and seriously, a two game sample is useless when evaluating these guys. its almost retarded to draw any conclusions from two games.

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    • #725709
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      bloodshy
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      Many people’s primary concern with this team is their struggles on O.  There is no doubt, that is an overreaction.  O schemes take time to develop and with the Lakers’ talent, it will develop.  However, my concerns are structural and I don’t see an obvious way out. 

      First, I disagree that Kobe will ever be willing to play off the ball consistently. He’s never done it before and he’s had opportunities. However, that doesn’t mean the offense won’t be strong. It will be despite the fact that Nash will have bad numbers throughout the year.

      Second, if you read my post I’m not overreacting. I agree that the Lakers’ offense will begin to dominate. They have enormous talent and they will figure it out. What I said was that even with their soon to be improved O, their weak bench and weak D (specifically super-weak Nash and below average D from Kobe/Meta) will be their undoing. While I see an improved offense as an obvious development, I don’t see a way for them to fix their two big problems: (1) Bench (2) Perimeter D.

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  • #725723
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    Kayjay
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    I’ve been saying this since Pre-season, and couldn’t have said it any better. I 100% agree. I could be wrong, only time will tell. I think the biggest reason why people are just waving it off are for one of the three reasons.

    1. Its the Lakers.

    2. Its only two games.

    3. Kobe Bryant.

    Again though, only time will tell. But I’m pretty sure Laker defensive troubles will be a main stay.

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