Amille’s impact at Duke

Hopefully he is not Lance Thomas 2.0.  I think as I posted in the other Amile Jefferson thread he will be similar to former UNC combo forward Jawad Williams if he lives up to his potential.

He is Lance Thomas. He’s borderline top 50. Great kid, but overrated.

Why would he go to Duke?  He’ll be forced to play behind a Bumlee brother and Ryan Kelly, and he’s a lot better than both of those clowns right now.  He should’ve went to UK if he’s really as legit as everyone says.  My sources from Philly tell me the kid isn’t all that great and could end up a 3-4 year player at Duke.

 Aran , how would you think he compares to TJ Warren and Brice Johnson in your eyes as a player going forward?

Though he’s a McDonald’s All American I don’t think he’ll have much of an impact until he’s an upperclassman.

Kid is rail thin but I commend him for having academics as one of the main reasons why he chose Duke.

 It will take him about two years to have KU h of a impact. Right now he’s a four learning to play the three. Great hustle and motor but not overly skilled and pretty weak

 Im from Kentucky and i saw him at the Derby City Classic, i wasnt impressed at all, i think he is a more athletic Lance Thomas who probably wont contribute till his junior or senior year. He’s rail thin and doesn’t have much of a skill game, i would have 2 say i agree that he is overrated and over valued. Imo he could possibly end up getting lost in the shuffle at Duke.

Unless you are overly talented or a top 10-20 level recruit, Duke historically is not the best place for developing talent and preparing players for the next level.  Nearly every Duke player that is in the league or has been in the league recently was a 5-star recruit coming out of HS.  We chronicled here a few weeks ago about some top recruits that went to Duke and didnt make it on the next level.

Jefferson is not a 5-star level recruit IMO.  NC State wouldve been perfect for him.  I agree with Flagrant….he could easily get lost in the shuffle at Duke, and offensively, you likely wont see any progression.  Just look at the offensive development of Mason Plumlee.

All in all, he probably made the right choice….because he is the type of questionable talent that may need that Duke degree to work for him as a backup plan.

What does he bring that Alex Murphy doesnt?

 i agree, he is lance thomas/hairston… skinny kid who needs weight and is soft.. im from Philly, times i seen him play he dunked hard but the rim didnt move haha. Hes not strong, He wont prolly get minutes until his soph.junior year. Alex Murph is gooood. Duke is not a good place to play because they make you fall into the system, but acedemic wise they are at the top

Duke hate on this website is hilarious…

 Anyone that questions Mason Plumlee’s offensive development at Duke has not paid attention to him over the past few years. 

 Duke just has the perception of not developing players. In reality, if you look at the less than 5 star recruits they get, they actually develop them on par or better than other college teams.

UNC has the perception of developing players really well, but that is left over from the Dean Smith era. Sure they have developed some pretty good NBA talent under Roy, but nothing allstar level or elite. Yet poeple believe they are an elite school for NBA development. Since Roy, the only names of mention they have developed are Hansbrough and Lawson. However, they have had way more busts like the Mays and Wright’s. Even "the savior" Barnes didn’t improve very much in Chapel Hill. He didn’t develop the ability to attackt the rim consistantly, and he also didn’t learn how to defend well.

Also, Duke has the most starting big men in the NBA of any college. I bet you didn’t know that. It’s all perception and believing what people tell you. Lance Thomas, while people say he didn’t develop at Duke, he turned into a guy who started some games in the NBA this year after coming in as a wiry, weak big man with almost no strength.

 I agree with you about UNC.  Actually, Roy doesnt develop talent well.  Dean was the master of it.  Players seem to regress under Roy.

However the perception of Duke not developing is reality.  Name some players that they have on the next level that wasnt a top recruit when they got there.  The only one that came to my mind was Dahntay Jones, but even he was a notable high school player.  So that voids the starting big men in the NBA.   Brand, Boozer, Magette, Jay Williams, Grant Hill, Dunleavy, Langdon, Battier, the list goes on and on, these were all top HS players.  I dont count Irving and Rivers, they couldve went anywhere, they were basically one and done talents.

This is not what I have been told.  I have been watching ACC basketball for nearly 30 years.  I live in Raleigh and I have close personal and professional ties to UNC, NC State, and Duke.  So I am not just going to make statements because I am biased to or for.

You can say I havent paid attention to Plumlee, but in most games he is a non-factor on offense, he definitely isnt a go to guy down low.  He scores off garbage buckets, fast breaks and put backs.  His average went from 7ppg to 11ppg, that was largely due to his increase in minutes.  He has no face up game and no post game.

The fact that Brand, Deng and Boozer are NBA starters does not apply to Jefferson.  He is not that type of prospect.  The fact is, his decision to go to Duke was probably as much a factor academically as it was basketball wise, if not more.  

Name some players UNC has on the next level that wasnt a top recruit when they got there. Not many are there?

Duke, Kentucky, and UNC’s NBA players are almost exclusively top recruits but for some reason Duke is held at a higher standard?? Why is that?

Why do you think NC State would’ve been better at developing him when the ONLY NBA player they have in the league is a 6’11 athletic PF who got cut in the middle of the season by the Kings in JJ Hickson??

And by the way Mike Dunleavy’s RSCI ranking was #26 and he is now a very productive player in the league.

The Duke not developing talent propaganda is just that…propaganda. It’s been repeated over and over by Duke haters until now everyone thinks it’s true.

Duke is tied with Florida and LSU for having the most starting big men in the league. But then you say all of them were highly ranked? Well isn’t that a bit unfair? UNC only has two starting big men and all of them were highly ranked if not more highly ranked than Duke’s starting big men.

Don’t you see the double standard that Duke has?

Where did I say NC State would be better at developing him?  Please read.  I said State would be perfect for him and he could get lost in the shuffle at Duke.   Even if you are looking at State for developing, you cant go by what Sidney Lowe did.  This is a totally different team and coach with Gottfried.  With State, Jefferson gets playing time, gets to play behind a player of similar build in Leslie who is a developing prospect.  He gets to play for a solid contender he will likely be heavily relied upon his sophomore year.  The problem with Duke or Kentucky is…he can get recruited over top of.

like I said, either you are about 20 years old or you dont know what you are talking about.  I clearly said Roy doesnt develop players….but Dean Smith was a different story.

you ever heard of Shammond Williams? well nobody else had.  he was basically unrecruited, but ended up not only making it to the league but being a starter at one point.

Hubert Davis…got a scholarship as a favor to his uncle Walter Davis and even then Dean said he probably wont play much.  Ended up being All ACC, a 20ppg scorer at UNC which is rare, a first round pick, and had a 12 year career.  

Danny Green is was not as highly regarded recruit as Jefferson, but Amile can only hope for the success that Green had at UNC and to be a contributor as he is in the NBA currently.

there many other players that came to UNC and ended up being much better NBA players…thats the true mark.

Walter Davis, Stack and Sheed, Jamison and Carter, oh…almost forgot….the GOAT.  James Worthy, Sam Perkins, etc…etc..etc…we can go on for days.

stop talking about that frontcourt starter crap like I cant pull that card….

look at the players who have found their way into starting lineups this year and the year before….

Felton, Green, Hansbrough, Jamison, Carter, Haywood, Lawson, Marvin Williams, Ed Davis, etc…

Look at the contributors to titles like Rick Fox and Scott Williams…who played together at UNC but won titles in the NBA.

Before Grant Hill, Duke was not known for churning out NBA players.  Grant Hill has had the best career out of anyone ever that went to Duke…and even he is questionable for the Hall.  

Now, lets see how many careers they screwed up before they got to the league…..

Chris Burgess, Ricky Price, Shavlik Randolph, Josh McRoberts, Billy McCaffery, Daniel Ewing, Sean Dockery, Demarcus Nelson, etc…

How about great players who turned major busts or didnt live up to expectations….Danny Ferry, Mike Dunleavy, J.J. Redick….now I like J.J. he is a good player, but so many Duke players have fell below expectations while players from other schools constantly exceed.

Most Duke players wish they could have the bust of a career that Marvin Williams has.

Its a double standard alright, in favor of Duke because they are America’s team.  Take nothing away from Coach K.  He is one of the best college coaches ever.  Currently, there are a select few in my top 5.  I like Calhoun, Izzo, and Coach K has to be right there.  I also put Pitino and Self in there to round it out….but Coach K is no lower than 3.  That doesnt have anything to do with NBA though.

Hate to say this as I am not a fan of them at all and they took away Bazz, but you gotta give UCLA its props at developing talent. 

UCLA’s players translate excellently to the next level.  Cant blame Bazz for going there.  Their players are usually better pros.  I really like Tyler Honeycutt once he gets some PT and experience.  Westbrook was an afterthought….wouldnt even had gotten a scholarship had Farmar came back.

If UNC, as they are now, are so bad at developing talent then why does Duke get the rep of being so bad at talent development and not them? (BTW Danny Green was ranked higher than Jefferson)

"America’s Team" my ass. We are "America’s Most Hated Team" and the media hates us as well. We get so many games on ESPN because of how many people HATE Duke, not because of the small population that actually likes Duke. "Hating Duke" is a profitable angle to take, so ESPN will capitalize it in any way they can.

UNC is more like "America’s Team". Whenever I go anywhere in the country most people would like Carolina over Duke because they are the "good guys" that can take down the "bad guys" every year.

There is a severely negative double standard against Duke with fans, media, and players and if you don’t see it you’re blind. UNC could have 5 busts, and 5 stars. But if Duke had 3 busts and 5 stars as well then for some reason automatically everyone thinks we can’t develop talent when EVERY school has just as many busts if not more because every bad thing we do gets magnified by a thousand.

It’s also a matter of recruiting. Duke simply does not pull in as many NBA caliber players as UNC and even THEN we still have more NBA players than you guys. In fact we have the most NBA players out of ANYONE in the league.

We may get 5 stars or McDonald’s All Americans but more often than not they are obviously not NBA caliber players (ie not big enough, athletic enough, etc). And that is known the minute they step on campus and even then many still make it to the league. UNC also has many stars in college that never panned out in the league as well so don’t even try that angle (showing the double standard again).

If Duke’s track record of developing talent is the criteria for a team that is bad at developing talent then UNC is HORRIBLE at developing talent. (which I don’t think is the case)

Yet the perception is still that Duke is bad at developing talent when obviously they are on par or even better than most blue bloods.

And btw, just to let this be known, I think Jefferson should’ve gone to NC State as well. He won’t get much playing time at Duke and he could be part of something special at NC State by putting them firmly on the map of college basketball. Much like how Coach K’s class of Dawkins and Bilas put Duke on the map.

Why do UNC fans and Duke haters constantly make UNC’s BUMS out to be "good" players…felton is DONE…he’s got 5 years left of being an NBA backup and didn’t come close to what people said he’d be, which was on par with CP3 and Deron. Marv Williams? Ed Davis? Wright? Ellington? Green? WHY ARE YOU PRETENDING THESE DUDES ARE GOOD? Green is lucky enough to stand in a damn corner and shoot Js JUST LIKE BOWEN DID. He’s a bum…couldn’t even get run on the cavs. a BUM.

You named a buncha guys that didn’t make the L from Duke, INCLUDING TWO WHO TRANSFERRED (McCaffrey and Burgess), but do you wanna talk about Fing, Zwikker, Forte, Curry, Lang, Capel, Cota, Evtimov, Frasor, Drew, the Wear Twins, Reese, Phelps, Wenstrom, King Rice…on and on and on…burger boys who didn’t make the L or had a cup of coffee and flamed out. And then you’ll hype Shammond making the L as if Dahntay Jones was some elite recruit coming outta HS. GTFOH!

Look, just say "We were lucky enough to have Dean, who had a monopoly on Elite talent in the South and on the East Coast, for 40 years and it got us MJ, Worthy, McAdoo, Vince, etc"…but, don’t sit here and act like UNC has some magic formula and actually "develops" players better than Duke or anyone else. It’s a lie. Since 1998, UNC has not produced ONE all-star. Not one. Vince and Tawn were the last. Duke has produced Deng, Booz and Brand since and has had 2 ROYs.

This lame debate comes up everytime Duke secures a recruit.

UCLA "develops" talent now? Okay. A nice run of Love, Jrue and Russy make us forget Toby, The O’Bannons, Ced Bozeman, Jaron Rushm Jelani, Gadzooki and Ray Young? NO ONE REMEMBERS alll those whiffs UCLA had from the mid-90s to the early 2000s?

amazing. people see what they wanna see.

I tell ya what…y’all better start forumulating counter-attacks and rationalizations about how Kyrie and Austin Rivers aren’t "real" Duke players. Because I know that’s coming.

You wanna go that far back? You wanna play that game? I can play it as well. I can go back to the 60s and 70s to show how that easily outweighs the bad run of the 90s and easily demolishes any counterargument you can have for Duke. Listen, I don’t even like UCLA, they are my least favorite team, I am just unbiasedly stating that even though I don’t like them, I recognize how great they have been at developing talent the last 5 or 10 years. I am talking current as I am sure most people are, and you are gonna try to knock me and say I see what I wanna see. I see what is true. Love wasn’t supposed to be a great pro. UCLA made him. Russ Westbrook, Jrue Holliday, Trevor Ariza, Darren Collison, etc. All did/are doing better than their draft position would suggest. I didn’t say Duke was bad, I just said UCLA (a team I don’t like) is good. Jesus Christ.

 Kevin Love would have been a lottery pick out of HS. UCLA didn’t make him. 

If you don’t remember, Kevin Love was actually projected as a late-lottery to a mid-first round pick coming out of high school. Scouts knocked him for his size and lack of athleticism. There is a HUGE difference between #5 in a draft and #14. Kevin Love progressed tremendously in his time at UCLA to move up to the #5 pick in such a loaded draft. But again, if you want to play that game than your statement of "I tell ya what…y’all better start forumulating counter-attacks and rationalizations about how Kyrie and Austin Rivers aren’t "real" Duke players. Because I know that’s coming." is quite fraud.

For one, he raised his draft stock WAY more than Kyrie Irving. Yeah Kyrie Irving went #1, but he was projected top 3 out of high school. It was more Harrison Barnes and Perry Jones III not playing up to expectations that made Kyrie the #1 pick more than him boosting his stock (although he did play great and still boosted his stock, but there was no one else really in contention for #1 because Jones III and Barnes underwhelmed). As for Rivers, his stock is about the same if not a little worst since he left high school. You keep just exposing yourself and setting yourself to be exposed again. I don’t like Duke or UCLA, I dont really care, but its funny you just keep setting yourself up.

 This thread would have been a lot more boring if he had gone to Kentucky or NC State.

People would also be less critical of him too. But oh well…

UCLA has done a great job at developing talent. But so has Duke, UNC, and Kentucky.

I just don’t understand why Duke gets the bad rep of not developing NBA players when the facts are against them.

UCLA and Duke are in their own tier of NBA players in the league right now from a production stand point. With Kentucky and UNC in the second tier.

If you did a fantasy league with each college team and every one of the players the ranking would go as follows:

1. Duke
2. UCLA (1200 points back)
3. Kentucky (2500 points back)
4. UNC (3000 points back)
5. Flordia (6500 points back)

The point system btw tallies every stat (assists, blocks, rbds, points, etc.)

Here’s the link: http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/80032?pak=GgoJxZY3sjKo