Not Quite Elite Players

This topic contains 28 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by tdav005 14 years, 10 months ago.

Author
Posts
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 4:52am #32331

surve
Participant
I want your feelings on some players who are juuuuusssst a tad under elite and may not ever get to the top tier status of Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Howard, etc….
lets exclude players who have been in the league for less than 5 years, like Eric Gordon, Russell Westbrook, etc…although they are clearly just below elite, I feel they will more than likely get there soon…especially as their teams garner more success.
Joe Johnson:

why he is close to elite: Solid athlete and versatile for a guy of his size. He is similar to LBJ physical stature in the fact that he is a 6’7" 240lb perimeter player. He has good court vision and IQ. Good mid-range game. Great attitude.
why he should be elite: Joe Johnson is a scorer but what really stands ou to me about him is there is not another player of Johnson’s size outside of LBJ who is a better ballhandler. when I say ballhandler, I mean asst/to ratio.
why he is not elite: HIGH usage rate…low true shooting percentage. That is not good for a player who is not a TRUE 1st option type player.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 5:17am #583533

surve
Participant
Devin Harris:
why he is close to elite: I think he is right in that range where he is tetering but as I read somewhere, he is too young to be a vet and too old to be the future. Lets see how he does in Utah with the young talent they have. He has world class speed. He is an excellent assist man and has good PER. He is a good defender.
why he should be elite: Harris is solid in most areas and he has elite speed and athleticism. A tremendous handle and quickness allows him to get anywhere he wants on the floor, and that is usually in the paint and too the rim. He has a very good all around game and I think he gets his teammates involved. He gets overshadowed by the elite PG’s but he is a top-10 talent at his position.
why he is not elite: Most of the reason I think doesnt have much reason to do with his game, but more of being in the right situation at the right time. He is an excellent PG and could be a great 2nd option on a contender. The main thing about Devin’s game is, it is questioned if his intensity and commitment is on a consistant level. Again, I think that he can get to that next level on the right team.

0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 5:17am #583295

surve
Participant
Devin Harris:
why he is close to elite: I think he is right in that range where he is tetering but as I read somewhere, he is too young to be a vet and too old to be the future. Lets see how he does in Utah with the young talent they have. He has world class speed. He is an excellent assist man and has good PER. He is a good defender.
why he should be elite: Harris is solid in most areas and he has elite speed and athleticism. A tremendous handle and quickness allows him to get anywhere he wants on the floor, and that is usually in the paint and too the rim. He has a very good all around game and I think he gets his teammates involved. He gets overshadowed by the elite PG’s but he is a top-10 talent at his position.
why he is not elite: Most of the reason I think doesnt have much reason to do with his game, but more of being in the right situation at the right time. He is an excellent PG and could be a great 2nd option on a contender. The main thing about Devin’s game is, it is questioned if his intensity and commitment is on a consistant level. Again, I think that he can get to that next level on the right team.

0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 5:22am #583537

surve
Participant
does someone want to do Rudy Gay for me? I think he is on the cusp too. I would attempt it but I havent followed him as closely and am sure someone can give a better assessment than I could.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 5:22am #583299

surve
Participant
does someone want to do Rudy Gay for me? I think he is on the cusp too. I would attempt it but I havent followed him as closely and am sure someone can give a better assessment than I could.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:27am #583573

C_Money
Participant
Monta Ellis – A dangerous offensive player who’s athleticsm and skillest make him a threat to drop 30 every game. His game is improving as his shooting percetages went up to 46% and threes went up to 36%. However, Its an unknown if Ellis is a product of the Golden State system and how well could he do if he’s placed on a contending team. He’s more of a ball stopper and a will take a high volume of shots to get his points. Really doesnt make his teammates better.
Kevin Martin – A wiry scorer that is very efficient. Will shoot a high percentage from the field, behind the arc, and from the free throw line. Scored 23.4 PPG last season in only 32 MPG. However, Martin is more of a second option player consistently on lottery teams. Plus he doesnt provide much defensively and doesnt contribute much in other areas.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:27am #583335

C_Money
Participant
Monta Ellis – A dangerous offensive player who’s athleticsm and skillest make him a threat to drop 30 every game. His game is improving as his shooting percetages went up to 46% and threes went up to 36%. However, Its an unknown if Ellis is a product of the Golden State system and how well could he do if he’s placed on a contending team. He’s more of a ball stopper and a will take a high volume of shots to get his points. Really doesnt make his teammates better.
Kevin Martin – A wiry scorer that is very efficient. Will shoot a high percentage from the field, behind the arc, and from the free throw line. Scored 23.4 PPG last season in only 32 MPG. However, Martin is more of a second option player consistently on lottery teams. Plus he doesnt provide much defensively and doesnt contribute much in other areas.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:40am #583590

NickWayne87
Participant
Rudy Gay:
why he is close to elite: 20ppg scorer. Enough talent to be a first or second option on any team.
why he should be elite: He has elite level athelticism with an efficent mid range and outside game. Solid freethrow shooter in the 80 percent range.
why he is not elite: He’s very good player, but he has all the tools to be a great one but isn’t quite yet. With his length, atheleticism, and shooting ability he should be a 25ppg+ scorer…….but isn’t. He should be able to carry a team but doesn’t…..just goes out, fits in, and get’s his quiet 20, kinda like joe johnshon does. He just seems to leave more to be desired.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:40am #583351

NickWayne87
Participant
Rudy Gay:
why he is close to elite: 20ppg scorer. Enough talent to be a first or second option on any team.
why he should be elite: He has elite level athelticism with an efficent mid range and outside game. Solid freethrow shooter in the 80 percent range.
why he is not elite: He’s very good player, but he has all the tools to be a great one but isn’t quite yet. With his length, atheleticism, and shooting ability he should be a 25ppg+ scorer…….but isn’t. He should be able to carry a team but doesn’t…..just goes out, fits in, and get’s his quiet 20, kinda like joe johnshon does. He just seems to leave more to be desired.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:43am #583594

surve
Participant
I thought about Ellis…but he is not very efficient due to his extremely high shot volume low asst/to ratio. He If he was a 2nd option on a contender as you say, that could get him there. If he could play efficiently in a controlled system where he doesnt have to shoot as much and has other scorers around him that he can pass to, he has elite level talent.
Martin is very good, I didnt have him in my list as having elite level potential, I just havent seen enough balance in his game to say that has it. He can definitely be an elite level scorer, but elite level player, not sure.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:43am #583355

surve
Participant
I thought about Ellis…but he is not very efficient due to his extremely high shot volume low asst/to ratio. He If he was a 2nd option on a contender as you say, that could get him there. If he could play efficiently in a controlled system where he doesnt have to shoot as much and has other scorers around him that he can pass to, he has elite level talent.
Martin is very good, I didnt have him in my list as having elite level potential, I just havent seen enough balance in his game to say that has it. He can definitely be an elite level scorer, but elite level player, not sure.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:47am #583596

IndianaBasketball
Participant
Danny Granger
why he is close to elite: He’s had very good seasons. He’s made an all-star team. He made the USA team. The Pacers have been in rebuilding mode for awhile though, so he hasn’t seen much playoff success. The Pacers have now added solid pieces and have cap flexibility to put a playoff team on the floor. This is Granger’s chance to prove he’s an elite player.
why he should be elite: He’s a great offensive player who doesn’t have to dominate the ball in order to be effective. He’s also not afraid of big moments. With the right pieces around him, he can be a decent number one option on a playoff team (mid to low seed)… However, he’s best suited as a second option on a championship caliber team. I think he has the game to be the guy or support a superstar.
why he is not elite: Can he stay healthy? Is he really a great player or just someone who’s been putting up numbers on a bad team? When will he focus more at the defensive end? Will he stop settling on three-pointers and start getting to the line more?

0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:47am #583357

IndianaBasketball
Participant
Danny Granger
why he is close to elite: He’s had very good seasons. He’s made an all-star team. He made the USA team. The Pacers have been in rebuilding mode for awhile though, so he hasn’t seen much playoff success. The Pacers have now added solid pieces and have cap flexibility to put a playoff team on the floor. This is Granger’s chance to prove he’s an elite player.
why he should be elite: He’s a great offensive player who doesn’t have to dominate the ball in order to be effective. He’s also not afraid of big moments. With the right pieces around him, he can be a decent number one option on a playoff team (mid to low seed)… However, he’s best suited as a second option on a championship caliber team. I think he has the game to be the guy or support a superstar.
why he is not elite: Can he stay healthy? Is he really a great player or just someone who’s been putting up numbers on a bad team? When will he focus more at the defensive end? Will he stop settling on three-pointers and start getting to the line more?

0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:47am #583598

surve
Participant
good analysis on Rudy Gay, somebody negged me but I dont know why…I think that most feel Rudy has elite level talent, and I think he was close to showing that before he got injured. Its like you said, his game is quiet like Joe Johnson’s and maybe thats why some would think he wont get there…but with the way the Grizz finished, all I think he needs to do is be more assertive and maybe take the reins as the leader.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:47am #583359

surve
Participant
good analysis on Rudy Gay, somebody negged me but I dont know why…I think that most feel Rudy has elite level talent, and I think he was close to showing that before he got injured. Its like you said, his game is quiet like Joe Johnson’s and maybe thats why some would think he wont get there…but with the way the Grizz finished, all I think he needs to do is be more assertive and maybe take the reins as the leader.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:51am #583602

surve
Participant
Granger is another good one. One thing I noticed about him though is, in critical moments, he doesnt seem to be a killer or make the best decisions. This could all be due to the fact as you say, he is not a true 1st option type player but has to fill that role for the Pacers. His demeanor is 2nd option.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:51am #583363

surve
Participant
Granger is another good one. One thing I noticed about him though is, in critical moments, he doesnt seem to be a killer or make the best decisions. This could all be due to the fact as you say, he is not a true 1st option type player but has to fill that role for the Pacers. His demeanor is 2nd option.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:54am #583606

IndianaBasketball
Participant
I don’t think Gay needs to be more assertive… I think he needs to do flip side of that.
IF anything, I think he needs to learn to move the ball more and fit in. Start expanding his off of the ball game and also becoming a better defender.
I do think he should still be the team’s closer though. Zach Randolph is a great closer, but I’d rather have the ball in Gay’s hands because I know he can get his own shot in any situation.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 6:54am #583367

IndianaBasketball
Participant
I don’t think Gay needs to be more assertive… I think he needs to do flip side of that.
IF anything, I think he needs to learn to move the ball more and fit in. Start expanding his off of the ball game and also becoming a better defender.
I do think he should still be the team’s closer though. Zach Randolph is a great closer, but I’d rather have the ball in Gay’s hands because I know he can get his own shot in any situation.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 7:00am #583610

surve
Participant
yeah, I kinda meant assertive as a leader, not more assertive offensively…although I think he can improve there as well. but like I said, I havent seen a whole lot of him, this year is the most I have seen of the Grizz, and he was out most of that time I watched.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 7:00am #583372

surve
Participant
yeah, I kinda meant assertive as a leader, not more assertive offensively…although I think he can improve there as well. but like I said, I havent seen a whole lot of him, this year is the most I have seen of the Grizz, and he was out most of that time I watched.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 9:05am #583681

Platypus
Participant
Lamarcus Aldridge
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 9:05am #583442

Platypus
Participant
Lamarcus Aldridge
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 9:36am #583699

hiphopismylife
Participant
Yeah I agree with surve I still question Granger in the really big moments, and I think that reflects on the team’s play in the playoffs. Teams go as their leader goes, and consistently blowing leads says you know you’re not meant to beat the other team.
There were a couple of games I saw last year, one at the end of the regular season against the Bulls in the particular, where they choked away a 20 point lead and the only guy who was unafraid down the stretch was Tyler Hansborough. Granger was a nonfactor, and wouldn’t leave the 3 point line.
I dont see a meanstreak in Granger. I’d say he’s a great 3rd option on a title team.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 9:36am #583460

hiphopismylife
Participant
Yeah I agree with surve I still question Granger in the really big moments, and I think that reflects on the team’s play in the playoffs. Teams go as their leader goes, and consistently blowing leads says you know you’re not meant to beat the other team.
There were a couple of games I saw last year, one at the end of the regular season against the Bulls in the particular, where they choked away a 20 point lead and the only guy who was unafraid down the stretch was Tyler Hansborough. Granger was a nonfactor, and wouldn’t leave the 3 point line.
I dont see a meanstreak in Granger. I’d say he’s a great 3rd option on a title team.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 10:11am #583719

surve
Participant
Aldridge is very close to being elite and got snubbed for this year’s All Star team. He is one of those guys who I am still trying to figure out why he doesnt get as much love. When Oden was playing, it was all about him, then when Roy was at his best, it was all about him…but L.A. has been there the whole time and when the other two went down, the Blazers still didnt fall apart. Hard to understand why people dont see just how good he is. Again, maybe he doesnt jump out as 1st option type but he has been unfairly overshadowed in Portland his entire career.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 10:11am #583480

surve
Participant
Aldridge is very close to being elite and got snubbed for this year’s All Star team. He is one of those guys who I am still trying to figure out why he doesnt get as much love. When Oden was playing, it was all about him, then when Roy was at his best, it was all about him…but L.A. has been there the whole time and when the other two went down, the Blazers still didnt fall apart. Hard to understand why people dont see just how good he is. Again, maybe he doesnt jump out as 1st option type but he has been unfairly overshadowed in Portland his entire career.
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 11:02am #583737

tdav005
Participant
– Devin Harris has top 10 talent at his position he just has to perform well more consistently
0
Posted on: Wed, 08/03/2011 - 11:02am #583497

tdav005
Participant
– Devin Harris has top 10 talent at his position he just has to perform well more consistently
0
Author
Posts

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.