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mikeyvthedon 14 years, 11 months ago.
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- Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 8:53pm #31620
Tongue-Out-Like-23ParticipantYao Ming‘s retirement seemed inevitable from the moment the Rockets announced he’d be out for the rest of the 2010-11 season. Nonetheless, it brings a tinge of sadness with it because of all the many "what if" questions it brings up. Most obvious among them, of course, is what he might have been if he’d never been hurt — Yao was the best center in the league in 2006-07, his last fully healthy season, and was only 28 when he saw his last substantial game action in the 2009 playoffs.
Beyond that, a flood of other queries come to mind.
What if the Chinese basketball authorities had pushed him less and not had him competing in all manner of tournaments — some major, many minor — during his summers? I hope the Chinese relished that 77-35 win over South Korea in the 2005 Asian Games semifinals. That tournament, just before training camp, was the beginning of the end — Yao needed toe surgery in December and suffered his first foot fracture the following April.
What might the Rockets’ fate have been if he hadn’t been injured in March 2008? The Rockets won 22 straight games that spring, 13 of them coming after Yao had been injured, but didn’t have enough pop to get out of the first round minus his post scoring. Similarly, in 2009, one wonders what might have happened if he’d been able to complete the second-round series against the Lakers. He was lost after Game 2 with the teams tied 1-1 and heading back to Houston.
Or what if he’d grown up being immersed in an American (or Spanish or Greek or Argentine) basketball culture rather than effectively becoming the guinea pig for China? What if he’d joined the NBA at 19 years old instead of 22? Would he have been a more instinctive defender or rebounder, or a more aggressive scorer, or had better training in other ways?
Yes, we have a lot of questions to digest when it comes to Yao’s career, one in which stands out as much for his character and professionalism as his play on the court. Speaking of which, I’ll add one more question: Did you ever hear anyone say anything bad about him? He had a nearly decade-long NBA career as one of the most high-profile players in the world, and pretty much everyone he encountered liked him. The gentle giant had 13 technical fouls his entire career, fewer than Dwight Howard or Kobe Bryant had in 2010-11. I witnessed the first one, in Atlanta in January 2003 — he screamed after a dunk. That’s it. Probably because he’d never done it before.
Yet despite the sooner-than-needed end to his career, there are some enduring trends we can take away from Yao’s eight NBA seasons:
• No oversized player has ever scored this effectively. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was 7-foot-2, and so was Artis Gilmore (who at his peak scored at roughly the same rate as Yao). But that’s the line — there has never been a player taller than 7-2 who was this much of an offensive weapon; mostly players of this size were either employed for their defensive skill, such as Manute Bol or Mark Eaton, or in the wishful hope that they’d eventually become that kind of an asset (Chuck Nevitt, Priest Lauderdale, etc.).
Even the ones who were offensive forces — Rik Smits, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Arvydas Sabonis — were second or third options. Effective? Yes. Dominant? Not so much.
Yao was different. At his peak, he was unguardable on the block, a natural post player who could shoot a sweet turnaround jumper to either side. The only 7-3 or taller players in history to average at least 20 points a game are Ralph Sampson and Yao, but Yao trumps even Sampson — he averaged 25.0 in 2006-07 and had three straight years above 22. Yao’s 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons are also the two best seasons in per-minute scoring by a player of this size.
• No player over 7 feet has shot free throws this well. The top free throw percentage for any player over 7-foot-1 belongs to Yao Ming, at 83.3 percent. Nobody else is even close — in fact no other player of that size is over 80. The next closest is Sabonis at 78.6 percent. In terms of individual seasons, the top four free throw seasons by a player of this size belong to Yao Ming, Yao Ming, Yao Ming and Yao Ming.
Even compared to smaller players, Yao’s shooting is fairly historic — an amazing feat considering his line-drive delivery. Only one 7-footer, Dirk Nowitzki, has a better free throw percentage. Among players 6-10 or taller with at least 1,500 attempts, Yao is six; set the cutoff at 6-7 and he’s still in the top 25.
• Oversized players are huge injury risks. I’ve mentioned this before, but the two factors that are most predictive in determining career length are size and shooting ability. Yao, as the tallest player in the league and also a pretty darned good shooter, figured to have a nice, long run in the NBA based on those factors.
However, too much size turns out to be a bad thing. The curve inverts at 6-foot-10; that’s the optimal size for a career length, but at greater heights the injury risk outweighs the benefit of increased height. We see this somewhat with 7-footers, but it’s players of Yao’s size that really drive the point home.
Players who are 7-3 or taller just aren’t destined to have nice, orderly 15-year careers. Despite the size advantage that these players possess, not one of them has managed to have a 1,000-game NBA career. Eaton, at 875, came the closest.
Generally, they have back, knee or ankle problems after a few years, and from there it’s a war against their bodies. Smits and Ilgauskas were able to fight their feet to a draw and make a reasonable go of it; Yao, unfortunately, could not.
Granted, this isn’t a large sample. Twenty players in history were 7-3 or taller, and 10 of them couldn’t play dead. But of the other 10, the theme of promise muted by injury rings loudly.
Meanwhile, check out all the pedestrian 6-10 guys who were able to play at least 1,000 games — basically two seasons longer than Smits. Herb Williams, Caldwell Jones, Leroy Ellis, Clifford Robinson, Joe Smith, Sam Lacey and Rick Mahorn, for instance, hung around longer than any of the oversized centers. They weren’t great players, but the injuries never got ’em.
• The Hall of Fame beckons. Evaluated strictly on his playing career, Yao’s credentials are shaky — yes, he was named to eight All-Star teams, thanks to an enthusiastic fan vote, and he did make a second- or third-team All-NBA squad five times. But he never made first-team All-NBA, never played in the Finals, never had a top-10 MVP finish and only played 468 career games — a little less than six full seasons.
Springfield, however, has never been a fact-driven process. The two key elements in Yao’s favor are that 1) he essentially ushered in the game of basketball to a billion Chinese, providing a pillar around which fans in that country could build a broader understanding of the game, and 2) he’s an international player.
The latter point is important, because the Basketball Hall of Fame has set an almost comically low bar for inducting international players in past votes, and based on those standards Yao will waltz in. Put another way, I don’t think it’s possible to have a system in which Maciel Pereira and Kresimir Cosic pass muster but Yao Ming doesn’t.
While the Hall’s voting history with internationals will create serious, awkward problems for Springfield when the current generation of NBA-experienced Europeans retires, Yao will be among the first of the bunch up for induction and has one of the best resumes of the bunch. Combined with his fame and his impact on the game in the world’s largest country, he’s in.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:48pm #566881
GrandmamaParticipantHad he been able to stay healthy, yes he would be a HOF’er. As it stands, I don’t think he should get in.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:48pm #566780
GrandmamaParticipantHad he been able to stay healthy, yes he would be a HOF’er. As it stands, I don’t think he should get in.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:35pm #566794
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe ANSWER: NO, for what, being 7’6" and from China. Five solid years of NBA play and nowhere close to the finals, please ESPN. Report on real sports topics. Especially INSIDER. What Yao has done for the game. You know how many more men have played B-Ball in China than that man, countless. It’s not like he revolutionized the game or won anything significant in his playing career. What individual award’s did he win, anyone answer that?
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:35pm #566895
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe ANSWER: NO, for what, being 7’6" and from China. Five solid years of NBA play and nowhere close to the finals, please ESPN. Report on real sports topics. Especially INSIDER. What Yao has done for the game. You know how many more men have played B-Ball in China than that man, countless. It’s not like he revolutionized the game or won anything significant in his playing career. What individual award’s did he win, anyone answer that?
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:55pm #566799
TRC1991Participanti think grant hill is far more deserving
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:55pm #566901
TRC1991Participanti think grant hill is far more deserving
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:40am #566809
CalipariParticipantHe shouldn’t, but stands a possible chance of getting in due to all the off-court and global superstar experiences related to him and the game in general.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:40am #566911
CalipariParticipantHe shouldn’t, but stands a possible chance of getting in due to all the off-court and global superstar experiences related to him and the game in general.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:13am #566819
ZeroParticipantIt’s kinda like saying TMac should be in the HoF. The guy was one of the most dominant scorers when healthy, but he was never healthy. Same goes for Yao, really dominant, but injury prone.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:13am #566921
ZeroParticipantIt’s kinda like saying TMac should be in the HoF. The guy was one of the most dominant scorers when healthy, but he was never healthy. Same goes for Yao, really dominant, but injury prone.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:22am #566821
er1csh3nParticipantWhat r u guys talking about, hiss play is still deserving, but more importantly he brought basketball to almost everyone in China, when i went to China as a kid in 2000, the basketball courts were essentially empty, no one even bothered to watch the NBA, but when Yao came along, people actually started to care and watch, and eventually about 50% of China actually liked basketball. Yes, his career was short and enema, but he cuturally impacted the basketball world by adding about 400 million more fans.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 3:22am #566923
er1csh3nParticipantWhat r u guys talking about, hiss play is still deserving, but more importantly he brought basketball to almost everyone in China, when i went to China as a kid in 2000, the basketball courts were essentially empty, no one even bothered to watch the NBA, but when Yao came along, people actually started to care and watch, and eventually about 50% of China actually liked basketball. Yes, his career was short and enema, but he cuturally impacted the basketball world by adding about 400 million more fans.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:20am #566832
nba00ParticipantYao made the NBA reach China and if his 100% he will still be the best scoring center in the nba because dwight dont shoot the ball like he does. For me he deserves to be in the NBA HOF, because being a hall of famer for me is not just about stats or being the MVP or even the number of titles, it is also about his contribution in the league. The NBA reaching his part of the world is one of the biggest contribution a player could give the NBA.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:20am #566934
nba00ParticipantYao made the NBA reach China and if his 100% he will still be the best scoring center in the nba because dwight dont shoot the ball like he does. For me he deserves to be in the NBA HOF, because being a hall of famer for me is not just about stats or being the MVP or even the number of titles, it is also about his contribution in the league. The NBA reaching his part of the world is one of the biggest contribution a player could give the NBA.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:52am #566842
Bmore_DCParticipanthe shouldnt be in the HOF for what he did in the NBA….but he SHOULD be in for what he did for world basketball. dude is an ambassador and changed the landscape of the international game. just like manu (who will be in the HOF)…YAO is a basketball legend through and through!
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 4:52am #566944
Bmore_DCParticipanthe shouldnt be in the HOF for what he did in the NBA….but he SHOULD be in for what he did for world basketball. dude is an ambassador and changed the landscape of the international game. just like manu (who will be in the HOF)…YAO is a basketball legend through and through!
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 9:30am #567079
Da1potParticipantWill be a HOF for sure because of his contributions in international basketball and the NBA alike. If Drazen Petrovic is in the Hall of Fame then Yao deserves a spot, too.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 9:30am #566977
Da1potParticipantWill be a HOF for sure because of his contributions in international basketball and the NBA alike. If Drazen Petrovic is in the Hall of Fame then Yao deserves a spot, too.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:03am #567109
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. If his statistics and personal achievments do not warrant NBA HOF recognition, why is the topic debated. Adding fans to the game, 400 million. Please keep it logical, Yao Ming was not a HOF player, maybe person, not a player. A person who takes two years to get their feet wet in the league then spends five years playing a significant role for a team. In the final two or threee seasons injuries creep in and end his career at thirty two years of age. Remeber Nate Robinson spiked the ball in his face. The tallest man in the NBA to be stuffed by a man under six feet tall.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:03am #567111
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. If his statistics and personal achievments do not warrant NBA HOF recognition, why is the topic debated. Adding fans to the game, 400 million. Please keep it logical, Yao Ming was not a HOF player, maybe person, not a player. A person who takes two years to get their feet wet in the league then spends five years playing a significant role for a team. In the final two or threee seasons injuries creep in and end his career at thirty two years of age. Remeber Nate Robinson spiked the ball in his face. The tallest man in the NBA to be stuffed by a man under six feet tall.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:03am #567007
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. If his statistics and personal achievments do not warrant NBA HOF recognition, why is the topic debated. Adding fans to the game, 400 million. Please keep it logical, Yao Ming was not a HOF player, maybe person, not a player. A person who takes two years to get their feet wet in the league then spends five years playing a significant role for a team. In the final two or threee seasons injuries creep in and end his career at thirty two years of age. Remeber Nate Robinson spiked the ball in his face. The tallest man in the NBA to be stuffed by a man under six feet tall.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:03am #567009
Sonics96FinalsParticipantThe Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. If his statistics and personal achievments do not warrant NBA HOF recognition, why is the topic debated. Adding fans to the game, 400 million. Please keep it logical, Yao Ming was not a HOF player, maybe person, not a player. A person who takes two years to get their feet wet in the league then spends five years playing a significant role for a team. In the final two or threee seasons injuries creep in and end his career at thirty two years of age. Remeber Nate Robinson spiked the ball in his face. The tallest man in the NBA to be stuffed by a man under six feet tall.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:27am #567115
andxxxParticipantIt is the basketball hall of fame there’s no NBA hall of fame
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:27am #567013
andxxxParticipantIt is the basketball hall of fame there’s no NBA hall of fame
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:56am #567124
mikeyvthedonParticipantYao Ming 100% should be in the Hall of Fame. Many more players have had better basketball careers, and obviously the injuries limited his games thoroughly, but he was an incredible ambassador for the game. International play definitely counts as well, and lets face it, he was a star. Yes, it was probably because he was 7’6, but he was so incredibly skilled, even athletic for as tall as he was. If he were half a foot shorter, he might still be playing, who knows?
He actually ended up playing 4 more regular seasons games than Bill Walton, who only played 482 games in his short career. Bill Walton also happened to be one of the best college basketball players in NCAA history and won two titles, an MVP, a Finals MVP and a 6th man of the year award. Yao Ming, on the other hand, made 8 All-Star games, averaged 19 ppg (Walton finished with 13.3) and he was an incredible competitor and ambassador.
Watch the "The Year of Yao", watch him being interviewed after carrying the Chinese flag during the Olympics, he was blessed with incredible height, but he used it to the fullest. He upped his scoring every year for 5 years, and just as he was becoming one of the best Centers in the league, he had injuries that ripped apart his career. If you question Yao as a competitor, watch Game 1 of Houston’s 2008-09 against the Lakers. Near the end of that game, Yao really hurt his foot, you could see he was in immense pain. He was wincing, and he was being helped back to the locker room, which might signal him missing the end of the game. Half way there, Yao said he could not go, and had to go and play the rest of the game. He went back in, and his play pushed the Rockets over the top for a major upset.
I also remember hearing of Yao’s prowess even before he came to the NBA. He played professionally since he was 17 years old and started of with the Shanghai Sharks. Over 122 pro games, he averaged 23.4 ppg and 15.4 rpg. Yes, it is China, but he was dominant. His last year in the league, he averaged 32.4 and 19, shooting 72% from the field. In the play-offs that year, he averaged 38.9 and 20.2 on 76.6% shooting. During one game, he was 21-21 from the field.
Yao’s entire career has been marred by injury. His second year as a pro in China, he broke his foot and claimed he lost 4-6 inches on his vertical for the rest of his career. However, it was fairly obvious that Yao loved basketball, and he used his height to become a star. Yao is an inspirational presence, he was incredibly influential to Chinese basketball and the popularity of the NBA in China. You may not like this, you may feel someone was better or more deserving, but make a case for them rather than trying to take away from Yao Ming. The guy is going to be a Hall of Famer, and his NBA success was a huge part of it, though not the full story.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 11:56am #567021
mikeyvthedonParticipantYao Ming 100% should be in the Hall of Fame. Many more players have had better basketball careers, and obviously the injuries limited his games thoroughly, but he was an incredible ambassador for the game. International play definitely counts as well, and lets face it, he was a star. Yes, it was probably because he was 7’6, but he was so incredibly skilled, even athletic for as tall as he was. If he were half a foot shorter, he might still be playing, who knows?
He actually ended up playing 4 more regular seasons games than Bill Walton, who only played 482 games in his short career. Bill Walton also happened to be one of the best college basketball players in NCAA history and won two titles, an MVP, a Finals MVP and a 6th man of the year award. Yao Ming, on the other hand, made 8 All-Star games, averaged 19 ppg (Walton finished with 13.3) and he was an incredible competitor and ambassador.
Watch the "The Year of Yao", watch him being interviewed after carrying the Chinese flag during the Olympics, he was blessed with incredible height, but he used it to the fullest. He upped his scoring every year for 5 years, and just as he was becoming one of the best Centers in the league, he had injuries that ripped apart his career. If you question Yao as a competitor, watch Game 1 of Houston’s 2008-09 against the Lakers. Near the end of that game, Yao really hurt his foot, you could see he was in immense pain. He was wincing, and he was being helped back to the locker room, which might signal him missing the end of the game. Half way there, Yao said he could not go, and had to go and play the rest of the game. He went back in, and his play pushed the Rockets over the top for a major upset.
I also remember hearing of Yao’s prowess even before he came to the NBA. He played professionally since he was 17 years old and started of with the Shanghai Sharks. Over 122 pro games, he averaged 23.4 ppg and 15.4 rpg. Yes, it is China, but he was dominant. His last year in the league, he averaged 32.4 and 19, shooting 72% from the field. In the play-offs that year, he averaged 38.9 and 20.2 on 76.6% shooting. During one game, he was 21-21 from the field.
Yao’s entire career has been marred by injury. His second year as a pro in China, he broke his foot and claimed he lost 4-6 inches on his vertical for the rest of his career. However, it was fairly obvious that Yao loved basketball, and he used his height to become a star. Yao is an inspirational presence, he was incredibly influential to Chinese basketball and the popularity of the NBA in China. You may not like this, you may feel someone was better or more deserving, but make a case for them rather than trying to take away from Yao Ming. The guy is going to be a Hall of Famer, and his NBA success was a huge part of it, though not the full story.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:22pm #567138
aamir543ParticipantI say he eventually gets in, but if he gets in, that will have T Mac, Grant Hill, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter and many more trying to make their cases.
But his impact on the game can not be put into words. It is just facinating to see someone so lanky just dominate. I feel that he changed the way we looked at asians and basketball.
But in my opinion, I think he will be back soon. Maybe a whole two years, but I think he has a lot left in the tank. Even this season he had 10 and 5 playing 18 minutes. That is 20 and 10 per 36 minutes. Granted it is a small sample size but still. (Plus, he had no points in 6 minutes in the last game in which he got hurt, so that deflated his average.)
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:22pm #567036
aamir543ParticipantI say he eventually gets in, but if he gets in, that will have T Mac, Grant Hill, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter and many more trying to make their cases.
But his impact on the game can not be put into words. It is just facinating to see someone so lanky just dominate. I feel that he changed the way we looked at asians and basketball.
But in my opinion, I think he will be back soon. Maybe a whole two years, but I think he has a lot left in the tank. Even this season he had 10 and 5 playing 18 minutes. That is 20 and 10 per 36 minutes. Granted it is a small sample size but still. (Plus, he had no points in 6 minutes in the last game in which he got hurt, so that deflated his average.)
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:57pm #567106
mikeyvthedonParticipantThink he is done man. He may try to come back, but I doubt it. I do not think this is something he comes back from though man, I think he is in a lot of pain and from what I have heard, it is never going to be well enough for him to play without getting injured again. It kills me to say it, and it killed me to hear about his retirement, but it looks like it is over. No doubt Yao can still play, but he also has the unfortunate side effects that can come along with his size. His foot injury was career threatening, and now I think it is flat out career ending.
0 - Posted on: Sat, 07/09/2011 - 1:57pm #567208
mikeyvthedonParticipantThink he is done man. He may try to come back, but I doubt it. I do not think this is something he comes back from though man, I think he is in a lot of pain and from what I have heard, it is never going to be well enough for him to play without getting injured again. It kills me to say it, and it killed me to hear about his retirement, but it looks like it is over. No doubt Yao can still play, but he also has the unfortunate side effects that can come along with his size. His foot injury was career threatening, and now I think it is flat out career ending.
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