Derrick Rose- Not Just The MVP

 Nah man, I still think it is Lebron James.  In fact, I’d take Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant over Derrick Rose.  Rose is great don’t get me wrong, but I’d take a dominant big man, and two unbelievable swing guys over him.

He’s the MVP, isn’t that enough?

 Rose has a lot to improve. I’m as big a fan of him as anyone but he isn’t the best. LeBron, Kobe, Dwight, and maybe Wade/Durant are still probably better. He needs to play better defense. Also he got hot from 3 midseason but since then he has taken way too many and his percentage dropped dramatically. He needs to cut down the turnovers and improve his shot slection a little while continuing to work on jumper. I do love how often he gets to the line now though. 

give me Shake-n-Blake

Kinda contradictory saying he’s kinda underrated and the MVP by a long shot at the same time isn’t it? I think with improved D and continued maturation of his jumper he could well be the best some day.

I’ll say this, he is more of a leader at 22 than LBJ will ever be.

How is Rose more of a leader then LeBron?

Woah, lets not get out of hand here. The reason why Lebron and Kobe are up there is because they kind of hurt you in more than one way. Rose is scoring, but he isn’t making everyone around him better. Rose is an amazing player, and I’ll even let you slide with calling him a top 5 player. But to take him over Lebron and Kobe is going a little too far. Maybe in the near future, but as of right now, I have yet to see why he should be the best player in the game.

LeBron is a clown.

Hey remember that time he quit on his team in the playoffs?

Rose has made everyone on his team better……at every level

List of Rose haters on NBADraft.net

KayJay

Steroid

BKknicksfan

anyone else?

But by that logic, Rose is a better leader then Kobe because Kobe quit that one time as well….

 BKknicksfan? He called D-Rose a top 5 player at like midseason before most others. I don’t think he is a hater.

He is kind of a hater on Rose

NYCarolina…..exactly.

I’m a Rose hater now? The hell? I liked Rose when he wasn’t as phenomenal. I’ll admit, I’m a little disgusted with how much everyone is nut riding him, but its the same as how everyone got sick of everyone nut riding Lebron James a year ago. If anything, you just insulted Lebron calling him a clown. I have yet to insult Rose. I don’t understand. Its clear that you are just looking for ways to call any player better than Lebron. Thats what it seems like to me. I’ll go ahead and tank the negatives this time around. I don’t care, Rose hasn’t made the rest of his team better in anyway. He’s filling in the scoring gap which is understandable. But Westrbrook, and Chris Paul can do the same.

LeBron is a clown…….try and debate that.

By you saying Rose doesn’t make his teammates better, you show me you don’t know all that much about basketball. Not just stats, but being a leader and getting guys to play better.

Rose is one of the top 3 players imo, with Lebron and Howard being the other two players. People overrate Kobe nowdays, he’s still good but he has gotten older. And Rose is better than Wade. I would probably rank Rose #2 behind Lebron.

And Rose has always made his teamates better, he’s one of the few guys that actually does that.

And I never said Rose was better than LeBron….I said he is a better leader.

But how is he a better leader. Explain that…

Has nothing to do with how he plays. Lol you enjoy your stats, in fact i’ll wait for you to pull them out. I could care less. To call Lebron a less leader than Rose is foolish as well. Lol I gee, I wonder how Lebron lead his team to 61 wins last year with arguably a worse off crew than what Rose has right now. You enjoy the rest of your evening sipping on hateraid. Peace.

I said it’s not all about stats. You should read before you type.

LeBron is possibly the most talented player ever. But he had to join forces to try and win a title. Rose didn’t want his ass in Chicago, and who finished with a better record? Rose wants to be THE leader of his team, not a co-leader.

 Rose definitely makes his teammates better, I don’t know how that is debatable.

But LeBron didn’t play with worst teammates and got them to 60 wins? Chicago had a better record because they have more depth, but mainly because look at some of the teams they played in the second half of the season. Easy final 30 games. Also, wasn’t Chicago only like 5 games better?  LeBron didn’t tell Wade " Hey Dwyane uh, I’m scared of winning, can you help me?" No, Wade wanted to team up with LeBron. There’s a reason why Wade and Bosh signed with Miami FIRST then LeBron had his own day. He was the mastermind in all this. Plus, can you blame LeBron for leaving Cleveland? Have you ever looked at Cleveland’s history in FA and free agency? Cleveland isn’t a good location for FA’s like Chicago either.

Rose was expecting it becuase he didn’t have a say so in it. You really think Rose wanted to share the spotlight with leBron? No way. He is a Chicago kid and this is his team.

Sipping my haterade watching Rose LEAD his team on a 19-5 run.

DanEboy are you a Chicago fan? Because you sound MAD bias right now.

I am totally biased. I live 4 blocks from the United Center. I wouldn’t listen to anything I say.

his leadership is phenomenal

but lets please not forget what LeBron has been through as far as with the talent level. You can argue that Rose is the better leader at age 22 but LeBron’s teams in his first 3 years consisted of

2003-2004: finished just outside of the playoffs with a roster of

• Jeff McInnis
• Ricky Davis
• Boozer (2 season though)
• Big Z
• Ira Newble, Kedrick Brown, Tony Battie, Kevin Ollie

2008-2009 Bulls made the playoffs but eliminated in the 1st round (epic matchup though)

• Kirk Heinrich
• Ben Gordan
• John Salmons (20 ppg after being traded then)
• Tyrus Thomas
• Brad Miller
• Noah, Deng, Nocioni

2004-2005 Cavs just missed the playoffs again

• Eric Snow
• Jeff McInnis
• Luke Jackson
• Varejo
• Big Z
• Pavolivic, Newble, Robert TRACTOR Traylor

2009-2010 Bulls (made the playoffs but lost to LeBron and company)

• Salmons
• Deng
• Tyrus Thomas
• Noah
• Taj Gibson, Warrick, Kirk Heinrich, and Brad Miller

2005-2006 Cavs made the playoffs, LeBrong got them out of the 1st round

• Damon Jones
• Larry Hughes
• Donyell Marshall
• Big Z
• Snow, Flip Murray, Gooden, and Luke Jackson

Bulls now (first seed overall, you all know the roster)

Now, I am not taking away from Rose and his season. He is an ELITE player. But Honest to god, unbaisedly, look at the roster LeBron had in his first 3 seasons. No where do I see the talent level that Rose had to begin with. A lot of people over look that. LeBron, as young as he was, led this team and carried them. Subtract lebron for those rosters and you are looking at the worst teams EVER in NBA history.

Just my two cents in the arguement

I really hope the Bulls play the Heat in the ECF. I’ll be coming back to this thread when that series is over.

Whoa man. Bulls did lose to the Knicks on Christmas day if I remember.

IMO Lebron is the best player in the NBA….. and its not even close.  And he is still getting better

Wow, DanEboy you are really biased, it’s very blatant. I atleast try to watch what I say and be fair. Your arguments, if you can even call them that seem a little crazy, no offense man, your cool.

T.J. Ford is giving Rose the business as we speak.

I liked how you called me out, but could anyone be hating on Rose when he hasn’t even won a championship, much less gotten to a conference finals yet? That’s just crazy talk. Wow, he’s won this years MVP. Hell, Steve Nash has two MVPs when Kobe has one.  The dude has been in the league for a few years, but there have been guys doing the things Rose is doing this year for years. Give him a few more years before we go calling him the best player in the league or even in the same league as LeBron right now. There are some guys that are obviously bias, and they’re some that are objective about Rose. Rose is the flavor of the season, but I’d take 3-4 guys in the league before I take Rose. I’m not a "fan" or in other words, biased, but I’m sure as hell not a hater. I respect Rose as a player, and I recognize his talent, but some things you guys say is ludicrous.

In fact…didn’t the Knicks beat Chicago twice this season?

I said I was biased…just like everyone else on this site.

If LeBron was still on Cle. I bet NONE of you guys would even be having this argument at all right now.

 LeBron is a better player then Rose, it’s not very close. 

On a different note, that Batlefield 3 game look super cool.

 1. during the summer everybody was on Durants nuts as the best player in the league

2. Right now he is the hottest player in the game doesnt mean hes the best

3. Kobe would still clown on him, and Lebron is the best player in the game still and for the forseeable future. He traded teams didnt lose his talents. Once he starts winning rings the HATRED will fade away .

Ok everyone probably knows I like Rose, but as of right now I would put him 4th or 5th on my top players list. But….Some of you still haven’t seen the 2nd half of bulls games and still got an old reputation stuck in your head. Rose is not a bad defender. Rose is not an average defender. Rose is a good defender. I dont know where you guys keep saying this, people are not noticing how much he has improved on the defensive end since midway through the season. If you want proof here it is.

Top other point guards in the League ChrisPaul, D-Will, RR, Westbrook, and I’ll throw in Steve Nash for the hell of it.

Going from the end of the season backwards to December, here is how many points these guys have scored vs Rose, and I am not leaving out one game, this is every match up in order from the end of the season with the point guards above.

Rondo- 10 points 3-10

Nash- 6 points 3-8

D-Will 5 points 1-12 yikes

Paul- 15 points 3-10

D-Will again-11 points 5-13

Westbrook- 15 points 7-18

Derrick Rose is THE most underated defensive player in the NBA. Rose has something about him, when he goes up againt the best, his defense goes from good to phenominal. Sure, he doesnt get a lot of steals hes not a gambler on defense, but steals does not make you a good or bad defender. He’s starting to learn from Lebron what great athleticism can do in terms of chase down blocks and blocks more than any PG in the league which means barely anything coming from your point guard, just thought I would add that.

If anyone thinks Derrick Rose is still a bad defender since the 2nd half of the season I want proof, just a warning though I have seen every game, if you try and throw bs it wont work. Watching the games is the best way to evaluate how good a player is.

I May Be Wrong – Since when is anyone on here comparing careers? No one is comparing Roses Lebron as players other than where there games are at right now. Your argument proves no point. I personally think both are great leaders. But I know one thing about Rose, his teamates absolutely love playing with him, everyone of them. I have never heard such high praise out of an organization than I have heard about Rose. I dont know if you constitute that as leadership but I dont think thats true in every case for Lebron. And Btw, Salmons and Thomas werent on the 09-10 playoff team they were traded.

NYCarolina "Chicago had a better record because they have more depth, but mainly because look at some of the teams they played in the second half of the season. Easy final 30 games. Also, wasn’t Chicago only like 5 games better?"

Dude whats it matter if they had an easier last 30 games. They had the hardest begining schedule out of every team, including the famous West Coast road trip, where normally a disaster, the Bulls had never came out of that stretch over .500 since Jordan. Well they did this season without Carlos Boozer. The fact that the majority of their hard schedule was in the first half just helps Rose’s case because he was missing his big men for a long span during those games. Wasnt Chicago only 5 games better? Dude some people predicted the heat to win 70 wins this season, some ESPN NBA guys picked the Bucks to win the Central division. Im not knocking Lebron on this. The Bulls play more than the sum of their parts and Rose deserves a lot of credit for that. The Heat however still haven’t been able to get the most out of their talent, but when they do then the Dynasty will begin.

 Now why I think Rose is not a top 3 player yet is because of his shot selection, and lack of experience, and he needs to take his defense from good to great, and over the full course of the season.

Lebron is better than Rose and although I dont believe its a miles difference, hes very efficiencent and basically has Rose’s athletism and strength built into a bigger frame. And yes Lebron is still improving, but Rose is improving faster.

I have already told you guys how Rose has improved on Defense, and his shot improved a ton but his shot selection has worsened. Whatever happened to Derrick Rose’s mid range game, he was so lethal from that distance last year but now I feel settles way too much when he can get that mid range jumper whenever he wants.

But this is where Rose is just flat out scary. Vs the Pacers early this season, Rose had one free throw shot inorder to put the Bulls in OT and missed it. He was shooting around 76 percent up to that game. Guess what? since he missed that free throw, the guy has been shooting a blistering 89 percent from the line, including a game where he hit 3 straight free throws with no time on the clock and had to make everyone of them. Yes the same Derrick Rose that shot 70 percent at Memphis and 76 percent last year. What an amazing improvement that is. I believe he is a 90 percent freethrow shooter now which is absolutely insane if you look at the players that also shoot 90 percent. Only the elite shooters in the game are hitting those percentages. Rose still has a long way to go to get an elite three pointer, but in terms of freethrows hes one of the best in the league.

With that being said, I thought Rose played horrible tonight. His statline wasn’t bad and once again led the Bulls to the win. He had some horrible turnovers, he did a bad job of adjusting to Indianas new defense which was basically aimed at trapping and doubling Rose. He shot 2 airballs from mid range and one was late in the game. Im sure he will bounce back in game 3. But this shows how stats can be a little deceiving.

For instance Im tired of announcers saying Rose went 0-9 from threes, technically yes he did, but good announcers know what a legit three point attempt is and what is not and say 0-6, something stats cant do. Rose shot 3 shots at the end of the quarters that game. 2 were from 3/4 court and the other one was a prayer also. I know its being picky, but 3 extra shot attempts water down what was a marvelous performance by Rose in game one, which he really scored 39 in 19 shot.

Sorry for the long posts, props to anyone who read it all.

First off if yu going to compare Derrick Rose compare him to similar players… Not who yu would rather have… Compared to someone like Wade for instance… D. Rose is the better player… Rose has a knack for winning….

A few of yu r too harsh on the man n not viewing the guys yu say r better than him in the same light… The only Superstar that shot better than him from 3 is Durant n he barely did that… Since he is up there in 3pt % as the other players, by saying he needs to improve that to be better than them is non sense… Kevin Durant still have a lot of holes to fill, as so LeBron… EVERY superstar takes bad shots n turn the ball over in key situations… So, PLEASE give me something that the rest of the league is doing better? He didn’t have Noah or Boozer for a good portion of the season n willed his team to wins… In fact OVER a Heat team where he was obviously the best player on the floor, especially late… So, I would rank em LeBron, Kobe, Rose… If hot any of these 3 r interchangeable… If cold they r with KD, Wade, Howard, n sometimes a focused Melo… That’s it…

i dont think is the best player in the league… but the best PG and possibly a top 7 player or so…

D. Rose is up there with MJ, Kobe, and Tracy… These r the only players I can think of the past 20-25 years that got good quickly… They definitely added something to their games on a year to year basis, trying to have no holes… Jordan did it so fast he quit after the 3rd championship because he had nothing else to add or prove… Good point…

People actin like crabs…always jumping on Rose’s dick.  I used to be a huge fan but Im starting to come down a bit just b/c this whole love affair everyone seems to have wit Rose is sickening me.  He’s a great guy and player so I can see why, but this is just gettin ridiculous.

"Up there with MJ, Kobe, and Tracy"…so much wrong in that statement. 

1st off Tracy doesn’t belong in that conversation with MJ and Kobe watsoever.  Clearly u are biased juding by ur avatar.

2nd…Rose played at this caliber for 1 season.  MJ and Kobe been doing it over a decade atleast.  Give it some time before you put him on the throne.  There is no rush. 

But, I think Derrick Rose is fantastic, he is honestly my favorite player behind LeBron. I loved Derrick as a prospect in HS, was amazed by his athleticism and agree that he is a winner and a fantastic leader. I was one of the "Derrick Rose will be the best PG in the league after two years" people, yet at the same time I guess I wondered if he would surpass the once mainstays of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Well, he has, and this season he well surpassed my expectations of him. Plus, he has always seemed to play incredibly in the play-offs, which he has made every year he has been in the league. Still, I have MAJOR reservations of saying he is better than LeBron James.

Leadership is incredibly subjective, and while Rose has been the best leader in the league this year, I think putting LeBron down in this quality is INCREDIBLY played out. Yes, his game 5 against Boston last year was atrocious, and he was not himself through a majority of the series, seemingly losing his composure. Still, I may be alone here, but did he really quit on his team? People seem to forget that while he may not have been himself offensively (though he had two monster games in their wins), he shut Paul Pierce down in every game besides the Game 5 awfulness. So, there is that.

Also, at 22 years old, LeBron did indeed lead a Cleveland squad to the NBA Finals. This team may not be the current Derrick Rose Bulls team, but they beat an impressive Pistons squad and came back from a 2-0 deficit to do so. Not to mention, LeBron’s Game 5 performance in that series was one of the more impressive individual performances I have seen in play-off history. He literally tried to get his team involved, and when that was not enough, he carried them on his back and scored 29 of their last 30 points.

I am not expecting me saying this is going to make LeBron any less of a "clown", in your eyes, and he has done things that may make him deserve the moniker. People do not like his dancing, lightheartedness and sometimes utter obliviousness to being humble. "The Decision" was stupid, he will have a hard time living it down. He even does have the awful quality of sometimes seeming like he is not accountable for his actions, which can be mindnumbing. But, he is the best player in basketball, like him or not. You could take Derrick Rose over him, but keep in mind that they are in completely different situations at this point in their career, and that while Derrick is a leader, he has a supporting cast that gells incredibly well, plus talent, depth and size on his team that LeBron never had in Cleveland.

One last futile counterpoint, is that if we are going to play the "LeBron is a jerk" card or question his attitude and abilities in the leadership department is to maybe look at the difference between he and Rose’s upbringing. LeBron was the only child of a mother who had him at 15 years old. He has had hangers on, but I see very little example of actual positive male role models in his early (or possibly even later) life. Gloria James seems like a loving mother, and I do not know her personally, but I can not see how more people do not question how in the hell LeBron turned out as well as he has. I think it is a miracle personally. Meanwhile, Derrick Rose had an incredible support system with his brothers, who tried to keep hangers on at bay. It kind of reminds me of the Marbury family with Steph, but fixing the obviously huge holes in that scenario and instilling a competitive fire in place of a chip on his shoulder. Really, if it comes down to it, Derrick Rose was giving much better building blocks than LeBron James in the leadership department. Still, he has a ways to go to catch LeBron James as a complete basketball player, and I do not think all of the criticism of LeBron is warranted. He is different than Derrick Rose, but we really do not know if that is a good or bad thing yet. It will more than likely come down to rings, and they should both be fighting for some. Win or lose, Rose may be a better leader, but I still think that LeBron James is the best basketball player in the league right now, and his ability indeed is enough to make him a constant threat for an NBA championship.

 Put me down on the list of Rose haters if thinking that Rose is not the best player in the game makes you a hater. A great player, I’m fine with. Top 10 in the league, sure, I will go there. Any higher than that and I can’t agree with you. I want to see more production over a longer period of time. Sure there is potential, but no more than a lot of PGs and other young players have. John Wall is putting up better numbers in his rookie year than Rose, for example. I’m just as excited about the potential that Blake Griffen has as I am about Rose (not saying Blake is better now, I’m talking potential). 

But I think the Rose-Lovers are going to have their bubble burst. In case you haven’t noticed, the Bulls are struggling to beat the Pacers on their home court. The Pacers are possibly the worst playoff team this year, maybe tied with the Sixers. Rose is scoring points, but it is taking a lot of shots for him to get there. Looking at these games, there is no guarantee the Bulls even make it out of the first round. They probably will, but they should be crushing an eighth seed and in paticular this eigth seed. They are lucky that it doesn’t get much tougher in the next round facing either the Hawks or the Magic.

Right now the Bulls aren’t looking like an elite team. By the way, this was predicted by lots of people. A lot of people said that the Bulls were dominate this year because of their bench and the quality of defense they got from them which is especially helpful on back to back game nights. But everyone is rested in the playoffs, so the bench isn’t as helpful. It is about your starters. The problem that some people said about the Bulls is that their starters aren’t actually one of the top starting fives in the league. 

 M-Dymes

The guy who put Rose with MJ and Kobe was based off of what they do to add to their games in the offseason. He didn’t say he was at their level. He improves something dramatically every year, so his work ethic is at least somewhat comparable to Jordan and Kobe.

Ok wow but ESPN is taking it too far. There is a SportsNation quiz asking who would win one on one, Derrick Rose or MJ in his prime…WTF?

Yu sound like a moron n don’t know how to debate correctly (even tho I just called yu out your name but its true)… I’m not being bias, I said these r the only players I can THINK of… Meaning it might be some I missed #1… Secondly, I’m not saying Rose is MJ, I’m saying these guys were adding things to their games at a rapid rate… Not a long duration of time, RAPID rate (I used the word quickly before)… And if yu r going to condemn what anyone has said, EXPLAIN yourself… I hope your vocabulary is intensive enough to write your logic in a paragraph rather than giving your opinions with no proof… I don’t give a ! what yu think Dymes if yu have nothing to back it…

Other than the Detroit series (which he was an absolute beast in) he didn’t play a quality opponent… Remember the East was a cake walk back then… Outside of Detroit, Miami was the only contenders with a healthy Shaq n Wade…. That Detroit series was ridiculous… No one wanted to guard him… he did that pick n roll all damn day n nobody stopped it… Now, when he got to the finals the Spurs gave the blue print on how to stop that man, and he hasn’t been back since… with the best record in the NBA 2 years in a row, while looking like the best team and the beast player he’s come up short… Stop giving me the names on his squad they still won 60+ games n didn’t make it…

LeBron took his team to the finals. Call it whatever, he put a TERRIBLE team on his back and lead them to the Finals.

With Boobie playing great n another All-Star on his team… Z…

talent he didn’t take them there… So, what does it mean when yu has more talent n can’t reach the finals??? It’s been 5 years n yall keep bringing that up… He didn’t win, the END… And just “making” it to the finals shouldn’t define how great yu are… The only series where he “put” them on his back was that Detroit series… The rest he did his job just like any superstar… Calm down…

With this debate, I think we have to consider whether we are just talking about this season or a player’s career as a whole. D-Rose is a deserving MVP but does that make him a better player overall than every other NBA player, for the regular season I say yes but overall I’d say no.

I’ve been on the D-Rose MVP bandwagon as long as anyone else but to immediately put him ahead of Kobe, LeBron and co is questionable in my opinion. I’d say he is clearly one of the top 5 players in the league at the moment maybe even a strong case for top 3 but I want to see him more during postseason before we crown him as the best.

McGrady I back my sh-it up regularly if it is something I find relevant and I care about.  Frankily I don’t give 2 fu-cks about people’s love for Derrick Rose or your infatuation with T-Mac.  By this ‘jumping on Rose’s dick’ im saying its not that he’s not a great player.  He’ll he was the best player this year IMO, although LBJ and Dwight were very close as well and if given the same situation, I think may have had even more highly regarded as MVP.  Im just saying that he comes up this often on boards and talk shows across America and it gets sickening seeing anyone getting this much attention…its almost christ-like. 

And tuck243, Im sorry I didnt "back up" my shi-t with u.  I apologize for not reading your post entirely, but as soon as that line came up I lost any interest in your statement.  I read it through again and agree with you too some extent.  But, T-Mac, MJ, Kobe, they all did this over many season and continued to improve.  Its great that Rose took that level of a stride in one year, but lets wait a bit before talking about his improvements being as extravagent as those 3 players.  I do agree with you that it was great improvement for one year though.

And just so you know…no sweat off my ballsack if u disagree or dont give a fu-ck wat i say.  Imma say what I say and atleast Im just man enough to admit my short-comings.  Frankily, the only reason I didn’t debate hard was what I was addressing was something that had no merit being debated because I misunderstood your meaning and therefore it seemed as if your statement was just so ignorant that there was no need for explanation. And im willin to cut the internet &$#%#&@!in, shake hands wit u, and call it all squared off and be straight wit u.

Against the Pistons, but remember that Zydrunas was basically an All-Star at a time when the East had little to offer at the Center position. I felt that Z being chosen over LeBron his rookie year was a slap in the face. Still, the Pistons series was huge for him, they were still a strong defensive team that LeBron destroyed. Boobie had a great Game 6, but I feel like LeBron was that teams offense, much like Rose is Chicago’s. Call LeBron an overdribbler or whatever, but the guy makes things happen, and he was what gave Boobie those triples.

Yes, the East was weak, it was a different NBA back than, but it was an impressive achievement, and he did it at 22. That team would have no chance without him, they would be at best an average team, just like Chicago would be without Derrick Rose. Even though LeBron played poorly in those Finals, he was about the only thing keeping Cleveland close to winning. Plus, in the subsequent series against the Celtics and Magic which he lost, I still feel like he played incredibly hard.

The Celtics last year was an anomaly, at least offensively in Games 2, 4 and especially 5, but he was not letting people beat him. His teams would constantly get crushed on defense, which became a strength of his over time. Not only that, but he did become more efficient offensively over time as well. It is not like he does not work hard to improve his game. I think people here almost think he takes basketball for granted, maybe in some of the things he does or says off the court, but I think that he rapidly improved as well. Went from 20.9 to 27.2 to 31.4, and every season since he has added and improved in his game. You can call him a quitter, or dislike him, but I think he wants to win and people should realize that it took a number of good players a while to do so. Predict his downfall and Rose’s uprisal, be happy if you do, but I have a feeling that LeBron is going to win some rings down the line, and I look forward to seeing what happens if they do indeed play Chicago.

The "winning" argument is moot. So what? LeBron or any other superstar isn’t as much as a winner as Rose? All these guys have been winners since high school, so it’s stupid to even think that. It takes more than one person to win a game anyway. It’s more than just "icing" games also. There are 45 important minutes just as well as the last 3. People want to talk about what happens in the last couple of mins and last shots, blah, blah, but they don’t remember what happened the first 40 something minutes of what the team or individual players did to help put their team in that hole. Talk about those minutes too. Some of you don’t look at it that way though.

I don’t understand the Derrick Rose hate… He seems to get new hate every season.

He still has a few holes in his game, but his improvement from season to season is phenomenal. You can mention him in the same breath as players like MJ and Kobe when it comes to coming back next season a lot better than they were the season before. There’s no reason to think he won’t become a complete player in the very near future.

What’s there not to like? He’s humble… He holds himself accountable. He’s unselfish. He can take coaching/criticism. He doesn’t make excuses. He’s a great leader. He makes his teammates better. His work ethic is out of this world. He’s 100% about winning and nothing else. And he has that killer instinct/clutch gene that’s rare. He has that unique ability to literally will his team to wins on a night to night basis… Like he just won’t let his team lose.

I won’t say he’s the best player in the league, but he’s clearly a top five player who’s stock is on the up… And he’s arguably the best closer in the league at 22 years old.

There is Derrick Rose hate?  I certainly haven’t seen it yet.  All i hear is people raving about him non-stop.  I have yet to talk to anyone who doesn’t like the guy…

If you’re a D-Rose hater please let me know.  I just want to know if they exist. 

And OhCanada I’m not saying you’re jumpin on his dick.  But it seems like the majority of the people I’ve talked to seem to be developing a deep infatuation for the guy.  And like I said, I really like him as a player and person, but the level of people’s love affair for him and the rate that it is growing makes me kind of sick.  ESPN is jonesin for some Rose dick and plenty of other media outlets and forums are wanting their fix too.

I agree that D-Rose’s defensive abilities do get overlooked so it will be interesting to see if he comes anywhere on the all defensive teams as people are sometimes surprised how often Kobe,LeBron,D-Wade and going back a few years Jason Kidd made the all first or 2nd NBA defensive teams. This shows that they are not just elite offensive players but they contribute on both ends of the court and I can see D-Rose developing along the same lines.

 It ain’t hate when we say lets wait. 

The Rose "haters" are just saying, let’s see how he does in the playoffs. Let’s see him do this for a few years in a row. Everyone likes his game and likes his attitude. He is inspiring his teammates and the fans. All good. But best player in the league? Too soon to say that. 

I hope we see a lot of Rose in the playoffs. Right now they are struggling to beat the Pacers at home in the first two games, so it doesn’t look good. Rose is closing out games, but he is taking a ton of shots to get those points. He hasn’t dominated like D. Howard has in these playoffs, for example. And the Bulls don’t look as good as the Heat now.

 I should have said Rose hasn’t played as well as D. Howard because you are right Rose has been outstanding. 

Don’t fault Howard if the Magic don’t make it out of round one. Their second best guys are Jameer Nelson and Turkoglu, neither of whom would start for the Bulls. Hell, I’m not even sure if either would even get significant run as part of the Bulls’ bench. 

Jason Richardson would be an upgrade at SG for Chicago, especially if he can return to the way he used to play. He just hasn’t been performing well at Orlando. 

I wasn’t trying to knock Nelson. But of course he wouldn’t start for the Bulls because they have Rose and you can’t start Nelson at SG. And while Nelson is a solid PG, you have to admit he is nowhere near to being at the level of player as any of Boozer, Deng or Noah. 

Howard has 26 turnovers through 4 games…..he has to take some of the fault for their losing.

He needs to take more than 14 shots. Again, as big and imposing as he is, he needs to step it up late in games. Give me a guy who can stop him? yet still, he doesn’t overpower when needed.

Working on his free throws would help a lot too.

Like fareal yall really be trippin, where have yall been the last 8 years? I understand yall are mad and disgusted that LBJ23 has more talent than your whole family combine lol.

No but seriously have yall forgot that Lebron career averages are 27 7 7

That Lebron is really a walking triple double

"He’s not a leader" HA the Cavs where the best team in the NBA if I can remember for the last couple years

09-10 61-21

08-09 66-16

And let’s not forget they did make a trip to the NBA Finals in 06-07

Kill the noise, Rose hasn’t even been out of the first round yet! He hasn’t accomplished anything in all honesty besides a Rookie of the year award that Lebron won as well.

By Lebron’s 3rd year they were already talking he might just be the 2nd best SF ever right behind Bird already.

Rose isn’t even a top 10 all time PG yet, I do think he will get there, but he’s not yet.

Lebron is just so great it’s really absurd to even think Rose is better than him.

But you guys really don’t understand so lets go into depth:

Lebron James:

One of four players to average 20 5 5 as a rookie

One of seven to average 25 7 7 for a season

One of three to average 30 7 7 for a season

One of four to average 31 7 and 6 in a season

One of two to average at least 27 6 and 6 for six consecutive seasons

One of two to post at least 2000 points 500 rebounds 500 assist for at least 5 seasons

ONLY player in NBA HISTORY to average at least 26 6 6 for their career

ONLY Player in NBA HISTORY to post at least 2000 points 500 rebounds 500 assist 100 steals in four straight seasons

One of three players to average 30 10 7 in postseason play

Then he has mumerous youngest player awards like the youngest to:

Record a trip doub in the playoffs

To score 30

To score 40

To win an all-star game mvp

To score 2,000 points in a season

To average at least 30

and its alot more seriously

While Rose has…….none

Only calim to fame was getting his FIRST trip doub this season

Stop playing like Lebron aint been doin this man

I don’t think anyone on here has said Rose is a better player than LeBron. And keep throwing out all the stats and numbers. If he doesn’t start winning some rings all of those numbers won’t mean shi.t. Ask Karl Malone if he cares about his stats.

Actually it was Wes Unseld. I could have sworn it was LeBron as well.

The first post someone said they are starting to believe that Rose is not just the MVP but the best player in the league….I can read.

Also things were said like Lebron’s not a leader which he is so I just added some extra info so yall can come off the Derrick Rose cloud and back to reality.

Lets define each:

MVP = best player on the best team

Best Player = makes the most significant overall contributions

Best Scorer = PPG average, 1on1 ability, and game-closing ability.

Lets choose one for each:

MVP = Rose

Best Player = Lebron

Best Scorer = Was Kobe for past 10 years or so. This year it’s Kobe/Durant 1a and 1b, with Rose an extremely close third.

 Hey BlackFalcon, you say MVP = best player on best team. 

So if the Spurs win one more game during the regular season and the Bulls one less, then Manu is MVP? It seems rough for the award to be decided based on just one or two regular season wins, especially since the Spurs play in the deeper West and they only have 1 less win than the Bulls. How about if the Melo trade happens in November and Denver goes on the post-trade tear for nearly the entire season. Denver would probably have ended with the best record the league then. Who is MVP off the Denver team? Is Nene now your MVP?

I think it is too simple to just look at team with the best record and pick from that. MVP is a lot of things and I don’t think people agree about what the award is. You can tell by how it gets decided that for some people it includes "the story" of the season (which is Rose and the Bulls). That is kind of like making it a "Player of the Year" award (which is why Jimmer won POY even though nobody in their right mind thinks he was the best basketball player in college).

For other people MVP is about how would the team do without that player. That is why Lebron and Wade don’t stand a chance because half the people out there think Lebron is the key and that he and Bosh would be fine without Wade and the other half think Wade is the key and that he and Bosh could win plenty without Lebron. Kobe also loses points because lots of people have Gasol as the best power forward in the league right now (I’d have him third after Nowitzki and Aldridge).  Rose doesn’t have to share the stage with any top tier star. Lots of people who vote this way think Howard is the most irreplaceable player and the player who’s team would most fall apart if he were to go down. 

Finally there are those who think MVP is for the best player. I think those folks are the minority because otherwise Shaq and Kobe would have a lot more MVPs. I’m glad MVP isn’t decided on "best player" because it would be more boring with basically some guy winning it year after year during his prime. I like that the award sort of floats around. 

"There is Derrick Rose hate? I certainly haven’t seen it yet. All i hear is people raving about him non-stop. I have yet to talk to anyone who doesn’t like the guy…

If you’re a D-Rose hater please let me know. I just want to know if they exist."

First, it was he couldn’t shoot. He developed a consistent mid-range jumper. After Ben Gordon left and he was struggling with an ankle injury, they said he didn’t have what it took to take over games and be his team’s go-to player. He became a great closer for his team. Next, it was he had no three-point range… He’s made more three’s this season than his first two seasons combined. Then people started saying he didn’t get enough assists, had average playmaking and didn’t make his teammates better. He finished this season top ten in assists. They said he was an awful defender… He’s the starting point guard on the best defensive team in the league and has made improvements in that area. They said he couldn’t lead because he was too quiet. He’s become a great leader this season and has been more vocal. They even said he didn’t get to the line enough… Teams haven’t been able to keep him off of the line since. Now, it’s he hasn’t won a playoff series. It’s only a matter of time.

Rose just continues to answer his critics and when he does, they bring up something else. Truth is, he gets better every season and soon, the critics won’t have anything to bring up.

I guess Jordan wasn’t a winner until he started winning rings, and Jordan was older than LeBron is right now before he won a championship. He didn’t start "winning" until he got Pippen and Jackson. I can almost guarantee that LeBron will win a ring before Rose will. The Bulls are lucky that they won’t have to face Miami or Boston in the second round, so that is the best thing they will have going for them this playoffs. Even if LeBron never won a ring, he will still be a top 3 player when he’s done. LeBron will never get the respect he truly deserves if he wins a championship anyway because people will say he played with Wade and Bosh.

Exactly you can’t even argue with people about Lebron, people know deep down he is the best thing walking, but he won’t ever get the respect he deserves and it’s messed up.

"Even if LeBron never won a ring, he will still be a top 3 player when he’s done."

I doubt it. Top ten maybe. IF LeBron doesn’t win a ring, he’ll be remembered for two things… Putting up great regular season numbers, but never winning the big one. And his decision to leave his kingdom to join another superstar and still coming up empty handed.

Kobe could win another championship and STILL not be top three, so I don’t know how LeBron could be top three without one.

I agree he is not the best, but he will get the mvp rightfuly because he carried a team without Boozer and /or Noah for more than half the season. I know people with throw out stats to disprove that, but what he did was amazing. But I do believe that Lebon,Wade,Dwight, Durant and Kobe are a step ahead, but he is only 22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He still has a full growth curve ahead of him! He is only a college senior! 

 Lebron puts up amazing numbers in the post season as well as the regular season. His playoff average (and this is six straight years of being in the playoffs) is 29 points, 8.5 rebounds and 7.2 assists. Even Jordan’s numbers aren’t quite as good. You can knock him about his ability to get that last second bucket. That is a big problem and a fair criticism. But don’t imply that he is just puts up numbers in the regular season. Lebron brings it in the big games as well.