Should Westbrook be an all star?

This topic contains 52 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Ghost01 15 years, 4 months ago.

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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:51pm #25842

nateoak10
Participant
Yes his defense is good but offensively he isnt very efficient and I think is a proponent of playing with Durant . Tonight he lost the PG matchup to Curry. I dont watch OKC much so I could be wrong but he looked like he predetermined all his moves and got tunnel vision

Curry: 23 points, 13 assists,0 turnovers , 10-18 (2-5 3’s), 0 fouls
Russ: 21 points , 5 assists, 6 turnovers , 5 fouls , 6-14
I think Monta Ellis should have gotten in over him and tonight he looked a lot better. Fun fact, Lebron James is the only non PG averaging more assists per game then him
Monta tonight: 13-25 , 33 points , 7 assists , 3-7 3’s , 1 foul

I think Russ is still raw, he needs to slow down imo and really survey the floor before making his choices. He gets out of control way too easy
Side notes: James Harden got hurt early in the 4th and didnt come back , the W’s are 4-2 in there last 6 (both losses to PHX and have beaten OKC, DEN, CHI, MIL and UTA holding all but Denver under 100).
Also OKC needs to start Ibaka or get a legit center to be ahead of him cause Nenad sucks
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:54pm #490174

BKKnicksfan
Participant
We really gonna make this post after one game?
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:54pm #490223

BKKnicksfan
Participant
We really gonna make this post after one game?
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:57pm #490178

nateoak10
Participant
Either way imo Monta has been better this season and this game made me think about it more
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:57pm #490226

nateoak10
Participant
Either way imo Monta has been better this season and this game made me think about it more
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:59pm #490182

CodySLC
Participant
Sorry you dude kinda got snubbed. He probably would have made it on a winning team. But the answer is yes, Westbrook deserves to be an allstar.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 5:59pm #490230

CodySLC
Participant
Sorry you dude kinda got snubbed. He probably would have made it on a winning team. But the answer is yes, Westbrook deserves to be an allstar.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:05pm #490184

Leftovers16
Participant
Russ isnt an effecient scorer? uh Russ and Durant are the highest scoring duo in the league if that isnt efficient i dont know what is how bout this comparison
Russ and Durant = 34-19
Curry and Ellis = 24-29
how bout getting over .500 first
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:05pm #490232

Leftovers16
Participant
Russ isnt an effecient scorer? uh Russ and Durant are the highest scoring duo in the league if that isnt efficient i dont know what is how bout this comparison
Russ and Durant = 34-19
Curry and Ellis = 24-29
how bout getting over .500 first
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:21pm #490240

nateoak10
Participant

"uh Russ and Durant are the highest scoring duo in the league if that isnt efficient i dont know what is how bout this comparison"
You dont know what is
If you think so you have 0 understanding of stats… ANd OKC also has a better supporitng cast for those 2 then GSW for Monta and Steph and a better coach. Ibaka is better then Biedrins by far, Jharden is better then Williams (not by a large margin but still) , we have no stopper like Thabo, or a decent backup PG (they have Maynor). Wright is better then Jeff Green though and I cannot under state how good Durant is. Thats the main reason why they are better
Russ’ TS in his first 2 years was below .500 … thats absolutely pittiful and awful to the max. This year he’s at about.533 which is better but still not very good . His eFG is .449 compared to Monta’s .496 and Monta’s TS is .54
Monta is more efficient and scores at a higher volume .
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:21pm #490192

nateoak10
Participant

"uh Russ and Durant are the highest scoring duo in the league if that isnt efficient i dont know what is how bout this comparison"
You dont know what is
If you think so you have 0 understanding of stats… ANd OKC also has a better supporitng cast for those 2 then GSW for Monta and Steph and a better coach. Ibaka is better then Biedrins by far, Jharden is better then Williams (not by a large margin but still) , we have no stopper like Thabo, or a decent backup PG (they have Maynor). Wright is better then Jeff Green though and I cannot under state how good Durant is. Thats the main reason why they are better
Russ’ TS in his first 2 years was below .500 … thats absolutely pittiful and awful to the max. This year he’s at about.533 which is better but still not very good . His eFG is .449 compared to Monta’s .496 and Monta’s TS is .54
Monta is more efficient and scores at a higher volume .
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:22pm #490246

nateoak10
Participant
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:22pm #490198

nateoak10
Participant
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellismo01.html
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:24pm #490251

BKKnicksfan
Participant
ANd OKC also has a better supporitng cast for those 2 then GSW for Monta and Steph and a better coach.

That’s the 5th time I seen you use this argument. It’s not our fault your team sucks and uses two smaller guards as your backcourt.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:24pm #490202

BKKnicksfan
Participant
ANd OKC also has a better supporitng cast for those 2 then GSW for Monta and Steph and a better coach.

That’s the 5th time I seen you use this argument. It’s not our fault your team sucks and uses two smaller guards as your backcourt.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:31pm #490258

Stanford hoops1
It’s funny you use the word Efficiency. Why you ask….well because Westbrook is ranked 8th in player efficiency and Ellis nor Curry are ranked ahead of him.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/2
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:31pm #490210

Stanford hoops1
It’s funny you use the word Efficiency. Why you ask….well because Westbrook is ranked 8th in player efficiency and Ellis nor Curry are ranked ahead of him.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/page/2
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:36pm #490261

nateoak10
Participant
And you sound sorta mad, I dont care if you have something against me but if you want to talk abouit the game be my guest but if your going to be rude why even bother?
Matchups:
PG: Russ or Stef? Russ cause of defense but its not by a lot
SG: Thabo or Monta? Monta by far
SF: KD or Wright? KD by FAR
PF: Lee or Green? Lee by far , Green is really inefficient
C: Biedrins or Ibaka? Ibaka by far
Williams or Harden? Harden but not by a lot
Udoh or Nenad? Udoh
Thabo or ummmm Vlad? Thabo by a mile
Maynor or Law? Maynor by a mile
Collison or Gadzuric? Collison by far
OKC has better overall players and much better deph. The W’s might have the worst bench in the NBA
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:36pm #490212

nateoak10
Participant
And you sound sorta mad, I dont care if you have something against me but if you want to talk abouit the game be my guest but if your going to be rude why even bother?
Matchups:
PG: Russ or Stef? Russ cause of defense but its not by a lot
SG: Thabo or Monta? Monta by far
SF: KD or Wright? KD by FAR
PF: Lee or Green? Lee by far , Green is really inefficient
C: Biedrins or Ibaka? Ibaka by far
Williams or Harden? Harden but not by a lot
Udoh or Nenad? Udoh
Thabo or ummmm Vlad? Thabo by a mile
Maynor or Law? Maynor by a mile
Collison or Gadzuric? Collison by far
OKC has better overall players and much better deph. The W’s might have the worst bench in the NBA
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:44pm #490265

nateoak10
Participant
It rewards players who score a lot on bad %’s made by John Hollinger the same guy who using these stats has Philly as the 8th best team in the NBA , NY the 17th behind Indy , Utah 22nd and PHX and Houston top 15 .
PER is per minute averages that dont care for efficiency . Someone could score 30 points in 35 minutes on 32 shots and his PER would be great but he took 32 shots to get 30 points. That is not good. Also he has LBJ as the 2nd best player ever right now. Maybe in a few years but not right now and Vince Carter in the top 50 ever looking at PER . Manu is the top 40 ever and CB4 is 39th , Yao is 21 and Amare is top 30. Sound flawed yet?
Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:44pm #490217

nateoak10
Participant
It rewards players who score a lot on bad %’s made by John Hollinger the same guy who using these stats has Philly as the 8th best team in the NBA , NY the 17th behind Indy , Utah 22nd and PHX and Houston top 15 .
PER is per minute averages that dont care for efficiency . Someone could score 30 points in 35 minutes on 32 shots and his PER would be great but he took 32 shots to get 30 points. That is not good. Also he has LBJ as the 2nd best player ever right now. Maybe in a few years but not right now and Vince Carter in the top 50 ever looking at PER . Manu is the top 40 ever and CB4 is 39th , Yao is 21 and Amare is top 30. Sound flawed yet?
Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:45pm #490267

Stanford hoops1
not by alot?..Stephen’s defense this year is below average. Since you are a stats man i figured you would have looked that up. Curry isn’t close to Westbrook’s level. Westbrook is one of the best Point guards int he Game.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:45pm #490219

Stanford hoops1
not by alot?..Stephen’s defense this year is below average. Since you are a stats man i figured you would have looked that up. Curry isn’t close to Westbrook’s level. Westbrook is one of the best Point guards int he Game.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:57pm #490277

gregoden08
Participant
Westbrook deserved to make the all-star team. One game of getting outplayed doesn’t change this. Monta deserved to be an all-star too, though, but so did Aldridge and Tony Parker.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:57pm #490229

gregoden08
Participant
Westbrook deserved to make the all-star team. One game of getting outplayed doesn’t change this. Monta deserved to be an all-star too, though, but so did Aldridge and Tony Parker.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:59pm #490279

nateoak10
Participant
You saw some of Russ’ stats above so just look at those when comparing
eFG = .545
TS = .594
Both of those are REALLY GOOD . He’s also a really good 3 point shooter (no duh)
Russ is the better passer but I think that has to do with the talent around him more than him being a great playmaker. Stef does have a turnover issue and both are good rebounder for there position . Russ gets it because he’s a really good defender and Steph’s turnover issues
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 6:59pm #490231

nateoak10
Participant
You saw some of Russ’ stats above so just look at those when comparing
eFG = .545
TS = .594
Both of those are REALLY GOOD . He’s also a really good 3 point shooter (no duh)
Russ is the better passer but I think that has to do with the talent around him more than him being a great playmaker. Stef does have a turnover issue and both are good rebounder for there position . Russ gets it because he’s a really good defender and Steph’s turnover issues
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:06pm #490273

Leftovers16
Participant
if you wanna talk about stats talk about stats if you dont then dont these guys post up stats on their team and then when you compare it to another they go well…(EXCUSE)…
wanna talk about first two years damn lets look
Westbrook http://www.nba.com/playerfile/russell_westbrook/index.html
Ellis http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ellis/career_stats.html
nba.com check for yourself
OMG NVM FAILED POST LOL but yeah go check out their first two years

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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:06pm #490224

Leftovers16
Participant
if you wanna talk about stats talk about stats if you dont then dont these guys post up stats on their team and then when you compare it to another they go well…(EXCUSE)…
wanna talk about first two years damn lets look
Westbrook http://www.nba.com/playerfile/russell_westbrook/index.html
Ellis http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ellis/career_stats.html
nba.com check for yourself
OMG NVM FAILED POST LOL but yeah go check out their first two years

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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:08pm #490241

nateoak10
Participant
And you only showed 05-06 and 06-07 for Ellis
http://www.basketball-reference.com/
this should be the only place to look up stats ever. It tells you everything . I never deferred from stat argument , I’m only using stats basically no one on this site understands / heard of
Take stats with only half the argument though. They are not the end all be all. By just looking at stats a lone Kobe is not that good. Thats where you must differentiate and appreciate skill and talent . I think maybe around 40% of analysing a player should be stats .

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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:08pm #490290

nateoak10
Participant
And you only showed 05-06 and 06-07 for Ellis
http://www.basketball-reference.com/
this should be the only place to look up stats ever. It tells you everything . I never deferred from stat argument , I’m only using stats basically no one on this site understands / heard of
Take stats with only half the argument though. They are not the end all be all. By just looking at stats a lone Kobe is not that good. Thats where you must differentiate and appreciate skill and talent . I think maybe around 40% of analysing a player should be stats .

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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:14pm #490247

lowryfoyeray
Participant
russ never looked interested in this game at all tonight. He picked up 2 quick fouls, and after his 2nd foul he just walked to his seat on the bench immediately, it was almost as if he was relieved to go to the bench. I’m a big westbrook fan, but tonight was tough to watch. Also, ellis awesome. flat out awesome
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:14pm #490296

lowryfoyeray
Participant
russ never looked interested in this game at all tonight. He picked up 2 quick fouls, and after his 2nd foul he just walked to his seat on the bench immediately, it was almost as if he was relieved to go to the bench. I’m a big westbrook fan, but tonight was tough to watch. Also, ellis awesome. flat out awesome
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:18pm #490249

nateoak10
Participant
Westbrook may end up being better but Im not talking about down the road but right now . And Monta 2006-2008 is when he really got his chance. his rookie year was basically a non factor. from 06 – 08 when he got the shot he played better then russ with his first shot .

More efficient at least
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 7:18pm #490298

nateoak10
Participant
Westbrook may end up being better but Im not talking about down the road but right now . And Monta 2006-2008 is when he really got his chance. his rookie year was basically a non factor. from 06 – 08 when he got the shot he played better then russ with his first shot .

More efficient at least
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:32pm #490276

OhCanada-
Participant
"Yes his defense is good but offensively he isnt very efficient and I think is a proponent of playing with Durant "
Russell Westbrooks stats during the 4 games Kevin Durant has been injured.
ppg-26.75
apg-7
rpg-6.25
spg-1.75

Oklaholma City has been 3W and 1L when Durant is inactive and only lost one game to the Toronto Raptors. The day before they played the Raptors was the double overtime night where Westbrook single handedly beat the Nets in double overtime I believe it was. While Durant struggled in the beggining of the season Westbrook carried this team and was getting well deserved MVP recognition. Wrong guy to pick on…
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:32pm #490326

OhCanada-
Participant
"Yes his defense is good but offensively he isnt very efficient and I think is a proponent of playing with Durant "
Russell Westbrooks stats during the 4 games Kevin Durant has been injured.
ppg-26.75
apg-7
rpg-6.25
spg-1.75

Oklaholma City has been 3W and 1L when Durant is inactive and only lost one game to the Toronto Raptors. The day before they played the Raptors was the double overtime night where Westbrook single handedly beat the Nets in double overtime I believe it was. While Durant struggled in the beggining of the season Westbrook carried this team and was getting well deserved MVP recognition. Wrong guy to pick on…
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:36pm #490278

OhCanada-
Participant
Curry really won this battle tonight thou. 13 assists and 0 turnovers is remarkable.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:36pm #490328

OhCanada-
Participant
Curry really won this battle tonight thou. 13 assists and 0 turnovers is remarkable.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:43pm #490280

nateoak10
Participant
Do you know? Just wondering
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 8:43pm #490330

nateoak10
Participant
Do you know? Just wondering
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 9:29pm #490293

TooNice4TV
Participant
Well since this topic is made because Curry did better than Westbrook tonight, does that mean James Jones gets to make the all star game because he scored as much as Paul Pierce in 6 minutes as opposed to Pierce’s 39? Interesting…
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 9:29pm #490343

TooNice4TV
Participant
Well since this topic is made because Curry did better than Westbrook tonight, does that mean James Jones gets to make the all star game because he scored as much as Paul Pierce in 6 minutes as opposed to Pierce’s 39? Interesting…
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 9:37pm #490297

nateoak10
Participant
More so too ask if Monta should have made it over him
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 9:37pm #490347

nateoak10
Participant
More so too ask if Monta should have made it over him
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 10:15pm #490301

OhCanada-
Participant
Curry too, doesnt matter westbrook is doing it right now. They both fall in line behind him.
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Posted on: Sun, 02/13/2011 - 10:15pm #490351

OhCanada-
Participant
Curry too, doesnt matter westbrook is doing it right now. They both fall in line behind him.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 2:57am #490315

Tongue-Out-Like-23
Participant
Are you going to make a thread whenever the Warriors win and their backcourt plays better than their opponents backcourt? If you are, we shouldn’t be seeing many threads from you.

Russell Westbrook vs Monta Ellis in Westbrooks career
Westbrook (4-3)
Monta – 24ppg    Westbrook – 22ppg
Monta – 3apg       Westbrook – 8apg
Monta – 3rpg        Westbrook – 5rpg
Monta – 4FT pg    Westbrook – 9FT pg
Monta – 2.3 spg    Westbrook – 2.6 spg
Monta – 44% FG Westbrook – 40% FG
Monta – 75% FT   Westbrook – 84% FT
This only proves one thing, Monta is a better scorer, while Russell Westbrook is a better all around player. Now what are you going to say? "Thunder have a better team" Well then, let’s see Westbrook vs Ellis in Westbrook’s rookie year.

Westbrook: 31pts, 11asts, 5rebs, (13-24 FG) (5-6 FT) (W)
Ellis: 14pts, 4asts, 2rebs, (7-13) (0-0 FT) (L)
Westbrook is and will be the better player.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 2:57am #490365

Tongue-Out-Like-23
Participant
Are you going to make a thread whenever the Warriors win and their backcourt plays better than their opponents backcourt? If you are, we shouldn’t be seeing many threads from you.

Russell Westbrook vs Monta Ellis in Westbrooks career
Westbrook (4-3)
Monta – 24ppg    Westbrook – 22ppg
Monta – 3apg       Westbrook – 8apg
Monta – 3rpg        Westbrook – 5rpg
Monta – 4FT pg    Westbrook – 9FT pg
Monta – 2.3 spg    Westbrook – 2.6 spg
Monta – 44% FG Westbrook – 40% FG
Monta – 75% FT   Westbrook – 84% FT
This only proves one thing, Monta is a better scorer, while Russell Westbrook is a better all around player. Now what are you going to say? "Thunder have a better team" Well then, let’s see Westbrook vs Ellis in Westbrook’s rookie year.

Westbrook: 31pts, 11asts, 5rebs, (13-24 FG) (5-6 FT) (W)
Ellis: 14pts, 4asts, 2rebs, (7-13) (0-0 FT) (L)
Westbrook is and will be the better player.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 7:07am #490401

durantula83
Participant
Monta Ellis got snubbed… AGAIN. No doubt about that, let that be clear. But to question Westbrook as an All-Star, that’s just crazy to me. This guy has proven time after time against the best in the league that he’s one of the premier guards in the league. Sure he plays alongside Durant, but Westbrook does whatever to get the job done. He’s focused on winning and has an uncanny feel for the game.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 7:07am #490451

durantula83
Participant
Monta Ellis got snubbed… AGAIN. No doubt about that, let that be clear. But to question Westbrook as an All-Star, that’s just crazy to me. This guy has proven time after time against the best in the league that he’s one of the premier guards in the league. Sure he plays alongside Durant, but Westbrook does whatever to get the job done. He’s focused on winning and has an uncanny feel for the game.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 10:57am #490522

Ghost01
Participant
You are such a Warrior homer its not even funny.
Russ Westbrook is having an outstanding season, on an all star team. He is a good defender, and a pretty complete offensive player minus outside shooting.
Monta Ellis is a ballhogging loser who puts up nice numbers, plays no defense, and whose team is never been vaguely near playoff contention. Stop making these ridiculous claims because Monta turns you on. He isnt that great. Weestbrook is the real deal. I know he has Durant but his value to that team is almost if not as high as Durants is. And hes the 2nd gun on a legit contender in the West. Westbrook is better than Ellis at everything, except jacking up shots. Wake up. If Ellis was such a star, he would have played in a playoff game by this stage of his career.
And he wasnt even close to the all star team. Aldridge, Zbo, and Nash were bigger snubs than him.
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Posted on: Mon, 02/14/2011 - 10:57am #490472

Ghost01
Participant
You are such a Warrior homer its not even funny.
Russ Westbrook is having an outstanding season, on an all star team. He is a good defender, and a pretty complete offensive player minus outside shooting.
Monta Ellis is a ballhogging loser who puts up nice numbers, plays no defense, and whose team is never been vaguely near playoff contention. Stop making these ridiculous claims because Monta turns you on. He isnt that great. Weestbrook is the real deal. I know he has Durant but his value to that team is almost if not as high as Durants is. And hes the 2nd gun on a legit contender in the West. Westbrook is better than Ellis at everything, except jacking up shots. Wake up. If Ellis was such a star, he would have played in a playoff game by this stage of his career.
And he wasnt even close to the all star team. Aldridge, Zbo, and Nash were bigger snubs than him.
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