Nolan Smith

I like Nolan Smith as a pro prospect than Jimmer Ferdette and Kemba Walker. I’m a Nolan Smith believer and I think he is a top 20 prospect. He is my 3rd best PG behind Irving and Knight. Demetri McCamey is also in the same boat as Smith and those two will battle it out for the 3rd PG spot.

I like Nolan Smith as a pro prospect than Jimmer Ferdette and Kemba Walker. I’m a Nolan Smith believer and I think he is a top 20 prospect. He is my 3rd best PG behind Irving and Knight. Demetri McCamey is also in the same boat as Smith and those two will battle it out for the 3rd PG spot.

^ umm no way is he a better pro prospect than jimmer or even kemba, notta chance

^ umm no way is he a better pro prospect than jimmer or even kemba, notta chance

I like Smith because he will be capable defender in the NBA. Kemba will have issues in defense as well as Jimmer, and those two guys will not be a dominant scorer that they were in college. Smith reminds me of a poor man Jrue Holiday, the guy will be a good starting NBA PG.

I like Smith because he will be capable defender in the NBA. Kemba will have issues in defense as well as Jimmer, and those two guys will not be a dominant scorer that they were in college. Smith reminds me of a poor man Jrue Holiday, the guy will be a good starting NBA PG.

Not even close to being close to being close to Jimmers level. Kemba Walker too why even think that lol. Think of Fredette te way we thought of Curry, remember all the "Oh hes too unathletic", "Oh he cant create", "Oh hes horrible at defense". If they give Jimmer the rock in the NBA he will put in the hoop.

Not even close to being close to being close to Jimmers level. Kemba Walker too why even think that lol. Think of Fredette te way we thought of Curry, remember all the "Oh hes too unathletic", "Oh he cant create", "Oh hes horrible at defense". If they give Jimmer the rock in the NBA he will put in the hoop.

I don’t doubt Jimmers pro potential, I’m sure he will be a good player, I like Smith because he has very few holes in his game. He plays defense, he’s athletic, he’s long for a PG (6’3 w/ long arms), offensively there’s nothing he can do (he can break defenders down and is a threat at 3GS line). I just think as A WHOLE, Smith has better NBA game than Jimmer and Kemba. I like McCamey also, alot of people are sleeping on him.

I don’t doubt Jimmers pro potential, I’m sure he will be a good player, I like Smith because he has very few holes in his game. He plays defense, he’s athletic, he’s long for a PG (6’3 w/ long arms), offensively there’s nothing he can do (he can break defenders down and is a threat at 3GS line). I just think as A WHOLE, Smith has better NBA game than Jimmer and Kemba. I like McCamey also, alot of people are sleeping on him.

 I’m a Duke fan, and I’ve seen Nolan Smith play in a lot of games now.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the kid and would love to see him make it at the next level, but I don’t see him as anything more than a backup. Yes, he can defend, and yes, he can shoot (although he is streaky), but the problem is that he’s not a point guard. If you’ve watched the Duke games, you’ll see that he’s kind of like a less athletic Monta Ellis in that he doesn’t have great court vision, and most of his assists come from drive and kicks. If the defense closes on him, he sometimes forces the issue even when there are other open players camped out at the three point line. Monta’s great because of his speed, and Nolan’s nowhere near that speed. If he can somehow improve his court vision (which he might still be able to do, given that 1) Kyrie’s out, and 2) there are no other real dominant ballhandlers on Duke’s team, unless Coach K decides to shift Curry to the point), but unless he can, I say he’d be a second round pick.

 I’m a Duke fan, and I’ve seen Nolan Smith play in a lot of games now.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the kid and would love to see him make it at the next level, but I don’t see him as anything more than a backup. Yes, he can defend, and yes, he can shoot (although he is streaky), but the problem is that he’s not a point guard. If you’ve watched the Duke games, you’ll see that he’s kind of like a less athletic Monta Ellis in that he doesn’t have great court vision, and most of his assists come from drive and kicks. If the defense closes on him, he sometimes forces the issue even when there are other open players camped out at the three point line. Monta’s great because of his speed, and Nolan’s nowhere near that speed. If he can somehow improve his court vision (which he might still be able to do, given that 1) Kyrie’s out, and 2) there are no other real dominant ballhandlers on Duke’s team, unless Coach K decides to shift Curry to the point), but unless he can, I say he’d be a second round pick.

He’s not a better prospect then Fredette or Walker, but I think he could be a good role player depending on what team he ends up on.

He’s not a better prospect then Fredette or Walker, but I think he could be a good role player depending on what team he ends up on.

 @Burningflood,

I agree completely. Smith is at his best when he can play off the ball, and can focus solely on scoring. He racks up some assists now, but he is definitely not a pure point guard. 

 @Burningflood,

I agree completely. Smith is at his best when he can play off the ball, and can focus solely on scoring. He racks up some assists now, but he is definitely not a pure point guard. 

"I like Smith because he will be capable defender in the NBA. Kemba will have issues in defense as well as Jimmer, and those two guys will not be a dominant scorer that they were in college. Smith reminds me of a poor man Jrue Holiday, the guy will be a good starting NBA PG."

Nolan Smith isn’t much like Jrue Holiday at all. He’s not as big, he’s more of an off-ball player, and he looks for his own shots more. Holiday is a guy who needs the ball to be at his best, is much more of a PG than SG, and a guy who’s more unselfish than Smith is. Smith is more of a Mario Chalmers type, a true backup who can be a starter who takes care of the ball, makes most of his open shots, and plays sound D on a team with alot of strong shot-creators. Kemba Walker will struggle with some of the bigger PG’s, but he also will AT LEAST be a pest on the ball on D and he should have high steals numbers. Fredette could be Stephen Curry or he could be a benchwarmer. But I tend to think he can play PG in the NBA and be a productive scorer off the bench at least. Smith’s success, much like Fredette’s, depends on who he gets picked by. But believe me, Smith will never develop into one of the better/top half PG’s in the NBA like Jrue Holiday likely will.

"I like Smith because he will be capable defender in the NBA. Kemba will have issues in defense as well as Jimmer, and those two guys will not be a dominant scorer that they were in college. Smith reminds me of a poor man Jrue Holiday, the guy will be a good starting NBA PG."

Nolan Smith isn’t much like Jrue Holiday at all. He’s not as big, he’s more of an off-ball player, and he looks for his own shots more. Holiday is a guy who needs the ball to be at his best, is much more of a PG than SG, and a guy who’s more unselfish than Smith is. Smith is more of a Mario Chalmers type, a true backup who can be a starter who takes care of the ball, makes most of his open shots, and plays sound D on a team with alot of strong shot-creators. Kemba Walker will struggle with some of the bigger PG’s, but he also will AT LEAST be a pest on the ball on D and he should have high steals numbers. Fredette could be Stephen Curry or he could be a benchwarmer. But I tend to think he can play PG in the NBA and be a productive scorer off the bench at least. Smith’s success, much like Fredette’s, depends on who he gets picked by. But believe me, Smith will never develop into one of the better/top half PG’s in the NBA like Jrue Holiday likely will.

Jimmer Fredette is going to be the worst defensive guard in the NBA. At the very least, Nolan Smith will be above average.

That difference alone makes up for the difference at the other end. Fredette is a great shooter, but Smith is a way more complete offensive player. He does everything. Hes a prototypical combo guard. Fredette is just going to shoot. I dont know why people are buying into him dropping 40 points against low level D1 competition like its going to translate to the NBA. Im not totally down on Jimmer, i like him, but acting as if hes in a totally different level than Smith is just absurd.

Jimmer Fredette is going to be the worst defensive guard in the NBA. At the very least, Nolan Smith will be above average.

That difference alone makes up for the difference at the other end. Fredette is a great shooter, but Smith is a way more complete offensive player. He does everything. Hes a prototypical combo guard. Fredette is just going to shoot. I dont know why people are buying into him dropping 40 points against low level D1 competition like its going to translate to the NBA. Im not totally down on Jimmer, i like him, but acting as if hes in a totally different level than Smith is just absurd.

Smith will never develop into one of the better/top half PG’s in the NBA like Jrue Holiday likely will.

I dont think we are at a point where we can make that call. Smith is definitely a much better collegiate player than Holiday was, and Holiday hasnt exactly been consistant this season.

Smith will never develop into one of the better/top half PG’s in the NBA like Jrue Holiday likely will.

I dont think we are at a point where we can make that call. Smith is definitely a much better collegiate player than Holiday was, and Holiday hasnt exactly been consistant this season.

"That difference alone makes up for the difference at the other end. Fredette is a great shooter, but Smith is a way more complete offensive player. He does everything. Hes a prototypical combo guard. Fredette is just going to shoot. I dont know why people are buying into him dropping 40 points against low level D1 competition like its going to translate to the NBA. Im not totally down on Jimmer, i like him, but acting as if hes in a totally different level than Smith is just absurd."

First of all, the Mountain West is not low level. The RPI has the Mountain West ranked ahead of the ACC, SEC, and Pac 10 this year. Pomeroy has the Mountain West ahead of the SEC. It is a league that gets athletes too, the league just doesn’t have a contract with ESPN to pump them up. It is funny how the computers that don’t have a financial stake in the bigger name conferences don’t have the problem placing the Mountain West where it belongs. See the computers don’t look at the 12-2 that Duke is against the RPI 100 and the 12-2 BYU is against the same barometer of competition, and see a ton of difference.

Second, Fredette has produced against high level competition. He torched the same Florida defenders who gave John Wall fits last year. K-State face guarded him the full court and sent a second man at him as soon as he crossed halfcourt, and still had 21-5. He went right at Armon Johnson and dropped 33-6 on him. He has torched the same UNLV team twice that beat Wisconsin. He hung 33 and a 20+ point beatdown on the only Pac 10 team worthy of its rep in Arizona. He also went into Arizona last year and hung 49-9-7 on them as a junior so I would think they were aware of what he could do. It is only because he is scoring at a historic level that he is playing less of a traditional point guard role this year. He is getting 1.6 PPS in Mountain West games, so it isn’t like it is a bad decision for him to shoot. He operates in the pick-and-roll well and he makes good decisions with the basketball. It just so happens that the way he is playing right now, the right decision is to keep riding the hot hand. This is not a debatable fact, the only player in college basketball who is playing at a similarly dominant level against good competition right now is Sullinger. If he gets his foot in the paint with the ball, good things happen. Those are the two candidates for POY, and there really shouldn’t even be anyone else who gets a vote.

Nolan Smith isn’t a point guard. When Duke needed to come up with a point guard last year, he wasn’t the choice. He wasn’t the choice to be the point guard this year until forced into action by injury. Bringing the ball up because Irving is hurt doesn’t make him a point guard. His release is slow enough so that if he ever gets to a point where NBA teams want to make a point of not letting him shoot that they can. Also, the idea that he is a good defensive player is based off what? Where was the defense against Dwight Hardy? Is it because a point guard that doesn’t want to shoot it in Kendall Marshall didn’t have a big scoring night change make everyone forget what an aggressive point guard can do to him?

"That difference alone makes up for the difference at the other end. Fredette is a great shooter, but Smith is a way more complete offensive player. He does everything. Hes a prototypical combo guard. Fredette is just going to shoot. I dont know why people are buying into him dropping 40 points against low level D1 competition like its going to translate to the NBA. Im not totally down on Jimmer, i like him, but acting as if hes in a totally different level than Smith is just absurd."

First of all, the Mountain West is not low level. The RPI has the Mountain West ranked ahead of the ACC, SEC, and Pac 10 this year. Pomeroy has the Mountain West ahead of the SEC. It is a league that gets athletes too, the league just doesn’t have a contract with ESPN to pump them up. It is funny how the computers that don’t have a financial stake in the bigger name conferences don’t have the problem placing the Mountain West where it belongs. See the computers don’t look at the 12-2 that Duke is against the RPI 100 and the 12-2 BYU is against the same barometer of competition, and see a ton of difference.

Second, Fredette has produced against high level competition. He torched the same Florida defenders who gave John Wall fits last year. K-State face guarded him the full court and sent a second man at him as soon as he crossed halfcourt, and still had 21-5. He went right at Armon Johnson and dropped 33-6 on him. He has torched the same UNLV team twice that beat Wisconsin. He hung 33 and a 20+ point beatdown on the only Pac 10 team worthy of its rep in Arizona. He also went into Arizona last year and hung 49-9-7 on them as a junior so I would think they were aware of what he could do. It is only because he is scoring at a historic level that he is playing less of a traditional point guard role this year. He is getting 1.6 PPS in Mountain West games, so it isn’t like it is a bad decision for him to shoot. He operates in the pick-and-roll well and he makes good decisions with the basketball. It just so happens that the way he is playing right now, the right decision is to keep riding the hot hand. This is not a debatable fact, the only player in college basketball who is playing at a similarly dominant level against good competition right now is Sullinger. If he gets his foot in the paint with the ball, good things happen. Those are the two candidates for POY, and there really shouldn’t even be anyone else who gets a vote.

Nolan Smith isn’t a point guard. When Duke needed to come up with a point guard last year, he wasn’t the choice. He wasn’t the choice to be the point guard this year until forced into action by injury. Bringing the ball up because Irving is hurt doesn’t make him a point guard. His release is slow enough so that if he ever gets to a point where NBA teams want to make a point of not letting him shoot that they can. Also, the idea that he is a good defensive player is based off what? Where was the defense against Dwight Hardy? Is it because a point guard that doesn’t want to shoot it in Kendall Marshall didn’t have a big scoring night change make everyone forget what an aggressive point guard can do to him?

Sorry, BYU is 11-2 against the top 100, sloppy typing.

Sorry, BYU is 11-2 against the top 100, sloppy typing.

"I dont think we are at a point where we can make that call. Smith is definitely a much better collegiate player than Holiday was, and Holiday hasnt exactly been consistant this season."

Holiday played 1 year of college basketball and he was better than Smith in his 1st year by a wide margin. And he did so playing out of position a bit. Smith has been in college for 4 years, Holiday has been playing NBA competition for 2 years. Holiday hasn’t been the most consistent and I didn’t like Holiday as a prospect at 1st (because I didn’t think he was actually a PG), but I’d have a VERY hard time believing Smith would come close to doing what Holiday’s doing. Especially by his 2nd season. The 76ers are on the cusp of making the playoffs. Nolan Smith would struggle badly if he had to be the PG for Philadelphia. Even by the time he’s in his prime.

"I dont think we are at a point where we can make that call. Smith is definitely a much better collegiate player than Holiday was, and Holiday hasnt exactly been consistant this season."

Holiday played 1 year of college basketball and he was better than Smith in his 1st year by a wide margin. And he did so playing out of position a bit. Smith has been in college for 4 years, Holiday has been playing NBA competition for 2 years. Holiday hasn’t been the most consistent and I didn’t like Holiday as a prospect at 1st (because I didn’t think he was actually a PG), but I’d have a VERY hard time believing Smith would come close to doing what Holiday’s doing. Especially by his 2nd season. The 76ers are on the cusp of making the playoffs. Nolan Smith would struggle badly if he had to be the PG for Philadelphia. Even by the time he’s in his prime.

BTPH- if you dont think Nolan Smith is a good defender, then you have never watched him play. He has been a good defender for 4 years now. And you are acting as if Fredette is averaging 37 PPG and Smith is averaging 12. Fredette scores about 5 more PPG than Smith. He is on a team with no other options other than a wiry big man that is okay at best, while Smith has to play with Singler, who jacks up shots all day. Also, i dont want to hear about last year. Right now Smith is leading the ACC in APG. Hes averaging an assist per game more than Jimmer. Smith shoots a higher percentage than Jimmer. And i like Jimmer. I think hes going to be a decent NBA player. Tht doesnt take away that hes an atrocious defensive player and isnt in a "Different League" than Smith.

YOu think hes a PG? But Smith isnt? What statistical evidence would back this up? None.

BTPH- if you dont think Nolan Smith is a good defender, then you have never watched him play. He has been a good defender for 4 years now. And you are acting as if Fredette is averaging 37 PPG and Smith is averaging 12. Fredette scores about 5 more PPG than Smith. He is on a team with no other options other than a wiry big man that is okay at best, while Smith has to play with Singler, who jacks up shots all day. Also, i dont want to hear about last year. Right now Smith is leading the ACC in APG. Hes averaging an assist per game more than Jimmer. Smith shoots a higher percentage than Jimmer. And i like Jimmer. I think hes going to be a decent NBA player. Tht doesnt take away that hes an atrocious defensive player and isnt in a "Different League" than Smith.

YOu think hes a PG? But Smith isnt? What statistical evidence would back this up? None.

OTher than being a substantially better shooter than Smith, Jimmer isnt better than Smith at any other aspect of basketball. Is that purely enough for him to be better? Maybe, but on a different tier? definitely not.

OTher than being a substantially better shooter than Smith, Jimmer isnt better than Smith at any other aspect of basketball. Is that purely enough for him to be better? Maybe, but on a different tier? definitely not.

"OTher than being a substantially better shooter than Smith, Jimmer isnt better than Smith at any other aspect of basketball."

He’s better off the dribble than Smith is too. He’s also more of a PG than Smith is, despite playing off the ball more this year to utilize his scoring.

"OTher than being a substantially better shooter than Smith, Jimmer isnt better than Smith at any other aspect of basketball."

He’s better off the dribble than Smith is too. He’s also more of a PG than Smith is, despite playing off the ball more this year to utilize his scoring.

You have no evidence of either of these 2 points…Smith gets to the rim at will. and Smith averages more APG and has a better A/T ratio than Jimmer as well.

You have no evidence of either of these 2 points…Smith gets to the rim at will. and Smith averages more APG and has a better A/T ratio than Jimmer as well.

Smith doesn’t shoulder as much responsibility as Fredette and he isn’t gameplanned to single-handedly get stopped like Fredette is. That explains his TO numbers more than anything, last year when he played PG he was much less TO prone than he is right now. Smith is very TO prone as it is as well, but the difference is he actually is playing more extended time at PG than Fredette is. So it’s actually worse from a prospect standpoint that his assists are higher. He’s actually running the offense and he isn’t playing against alot of the junk defense Fredette is.

And just because Smith gets all the way to the rim "at will" doesn’t mean he works all 3 levels off the dribble better than Fredette. Smith is not nearly as prolific off the bounce as Fredette is, particularly shooting the ball.

Smith doesn’t shoulder as much responsibility as Fredette and he isn’t gameplanned to single-handedly get stopped like Fredette is. That explains his TO numbers more than anything, last year when he played PG he was much less TO prone than he is right now. Smith is very TO prone as it is as well, but the difference is he actually is playing more extended time at PG than Fredette is. So it’s actually worse from a prospect standpoint that his assists are higher. He’s actually running the offense and he isn’t playing against alot of the junk defense Fredette is.

And just because Smith gets all the way to the rim "at will" doesn’t mean he works all 3 levels off the dribble better than Fredette. Smith is not nearly as prolific off the bounce as Fredette is, particularly shooting the ball.

Anyone who thinks Smith is a better all aroud offensive player then Fredette has serious issues detecting talent and skills imo. Thats one of the craziest things Ive ever seen written on this site. 

Anyone who thinks Smith is a better all aroud offensive player then Fredette has serious issues detecting talent and skills imo. Thats one of the craziest things Ive ever seen written on this site. 

Fredette does usually play PG….have you actually watched them play this year? I would protest the fact that Smith was the off guard for the first 9 games of the season means Fredette has actually had more reps at that spot thna Smith has. I understand defenses key on them, but they arent elite defenses by any means. Outside of 5-6 games, Fredette has been going up against weak competition. And the fact hes there only guy also shows why his scoring production has been more than smith’s seeing as hes the only weapon they have, while Smith plays with a preseason All American, and 2 shoot first guards. Smith has been more efficient than Fredette.

And Ive never argued Smith’s jump shot vs Jimmer…so im not arguing that. Im not even arguing smith is better, just that the gap is pretty non existant between the two.

Fredette does usually play PG….have you actually watched them play this year? I would protest the fact that Smith was the off guard for the first 9 games of the season means Fredette has actually had more reps at that spot thna Smith has. I understand defenses key on them, but they arent elite defenses by any means. Outside of 5-6 games, Fredette has been going up against weak competition. And the fact hes there only guy also shows why his scoring production has been more than smith’s seeing as hes the only weapon they have, while Smith plays with a preseason All American, and 2 shoot first guards. Smith has been more efficient than Fredette.

And Ive never argued Smith’s jump shot vs Jimmer…so im not arguing that. Im not even arguing smith is better, just that the gap is pretty non existant between the two.

"Fredette does usually play PG….have you actually watched them play this year? I would protest the fact that Smith was the off guard for the first 9 games of the season means Fredette has actually had more reps at that spot thna Smith has. I understand defenses key on them, but they arent elite defenses by any means. Outside of 5-6 games, Fredette has been going up against weak competition. And the fact hes there only guy also shows why his scoring production has been more than smith’s seeing as hes the only weapon they have, while Smith plays with a preseason All American, and 2 shoot first guards. Smith has been more efficient than Fredette."

No I haven’t watched him play 1 time this year -___-. He doesn’t play PG nearly as much as he did last year. You can protest it all you want, but Smith has played more PG this year as a whole. And the fact that he puts up 3 topg as a PG is alarming for a guy who’s been playing PG and is projected (by you) to be as good a prospect as Jrue Holiday. Even if he’s not going you against defenses that aren’t ranked that high it can not be overlooked that he’s seeing more junk defenses than any player in the nation. Jackson Emery and Brandon Davies are solid players for BYU, Fredette isn’t the only good player on their team by any stretch. He’s the BEST player by a wide margin, but don’t think he’s the only good player on their team. Smith is shooting a whole 1% better from the floor than Fredette, lets not act like Smith is just efficient and Fredette isn’t. And Fredette is that much less efficient playing  on a team with much less talent and playing teams that make gameplans to stop just him.

"Fredette does usually play PG….have you actually watched them play this year? I would protest the fact that Smith was the off guard for the first 9 games of the season means Fredette has actually had more reps at that spot thna Smith has. I understand defenses key on them, but they arent elite defenses by any means. Outside of 5-6 games, Fredette has been going up against weak competition. And the fact hes there only guy also shows why his scoring production has been more than smith’s seeing as hes the only weapon they have, while Smith plays with a preseason All American, and 2 shoot first guards. Smith has been more efficient than Fredette."

No I haven’t watched him play 1 time this year -___-. He doesn’t play PG nearly as much as he did last year. You can protest it all you want, but Smith has played more PG this year as a whole. And the fact that he puts up 3 topg as a PG is alarming for a guy who’s been playing PG and is projected (by you) to be as good a prospect as Jrue Holiday. Even if he’s not going you against defenses that aren’t ranked that high it can not be overlooked that he’s seeing more junk defenses than any player in the nation. Jackson Emery and Brandon Davies are solid players for BYU, Fredette isn’t the only good player on their team by any stretch. He’s the BEST player by a wide margin, but don’t think he’s the only good player on their team. Smith is shooting a whole 1% better from the floor than Fredette, lets not act like Smith is just efficient and Fredette isn’t. And Fredette is that much less efficient playing  on a team with much less talent and playing teams that make gameplans to stop just him.

Smith would never produce like Fredette in BYU, and Fredette would make Duke a much better team and produce much more then Smith does at Duke end of story. Teams dont say "okay weve got Duke tonight, we need to put our best perimiter defender on Smith at all times, double him as soon as he has the ball inside the 3-point line, and maintain constant pressure on him at all times". Smith isnt nearly as dangerous as Fredette.

Smith would never produce like Fredette in BYU, and Fredette would make Duke a much better team and produce much more then Smith does at Duke end of story. Teams dont say "okay weve got Duke tonight, we need to put our best perimiter defender on Smith at all times, double him as soon as he has the ball inside the 3-point line, and maintain constant pressure on him at all times". Smith isnt nearly as dangerous as Fredette.

Here are some facts:

BYU’s strength of schedule by Pomeroy is 31st in the country, Duke’s is 45th. RPI has BYU’s strength of schedule at 11th, and Duke 42nd. Quit talking about Fredette playing a weak schedule. You are basing it off nothing but historic reputation.

Smith has some noticeable home/away splits.

13 Cameron games, 32.6 minutes, 52.5 FG%, 44.2 3FG%, 6.0 APG, 3.2 TOPG, 23.0 PPG

11 non-Cameron games, 34.5 minutes, 43.0 FG%, 27.8 3FG%, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 19.8 PPG

I would expect with only three more games in Cameron that his numbers will drop, though he did have a tremendously efficient second half against St. John’s when they were down 25 and it didn’t matter. That half skews his road numbers upward.

Jimmer Fredette also has some very interesting splits

13 RPI 100 games, 36.7 minutes, 48.0 FG%, 44.9 3FG%, 1.53 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 30.1 PPG

12 other games, 32.4 minutes, 46.5 FG%, 38.9 3FG%, 1.38 PPS, 4.3 APG, 2.4 TOPG, 24.8 PPG

He is more aggressive against better competition. So while he only “scores about 5 more PPG than Smith” his numbers are brought down by the fact that he had games early in the year where he could have gone off but didn’t. Those guarantee games don’t matter.

Now let’s put Smith’s conference numbers up against Jimmer with the note that the RPI score has the Mountain West rating (from 0 up to 1) scale of .5689 and the ACC being .5604.

10 Smith games, 37.0 minutes, 43.5 FG%, 34.0 3FG%, 1.29 PPS, 5.4 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 23.8 PPG

10 Jimmer games, 37.5 minutes, 47.1 FG%, 48.2 3FG%, 1.57 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 32.6 PPG

And games against the RPI 100.

14 Smith games, 34.9 minutes, 48.9 FG%, 36.9 3FG%, 1.46 PPS, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 22.9 PPG

13 Jimmer games, 36.7 minutes, 48.0 FG%, 44.9 3FG%, 1.53 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 30.1 PPG

Here are some facts:

BYU’s strength of schedule by Pomeroy is 31st in the country, Duke’s is 45th. RPI has BYU’s strength of schedule at 11th, and Duke 42nd. Quit talking about Fredette playing a weak schedule. You are basing it off nothing but historic reputation.

Smith has some noticeable home/away splits.

13 Cameron games, 32.6 minutes, 52.5 FG%, 44.2 3FG%, 6.0 APG, 3.2 TOPG, 23.0 PPG

11 non-Cameron games, 34.5 minutes, 43.0 FG%, 27.8 3FG%, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 19.8 PPG

I would expect with only three more games in Cameron that his numbers will drop, though he did have a tremendously efficient second half against St. John’s when they were down 25 and it didn’t matter. That half skews his road numbers upward.

Jimmer Fredette also has some very interesting splits

13 RPI 100 games, 36.7 minutes, 48.0 FG%, 44.9 3FG%, 1.53 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 30.1 PPG

12 other games, 32.4 minutes, 46.5 FG%, 38.9 3FG%, 1.38 PPS, 4.3 APG, 2.4 TOPG, 24.8 PPG

He is more aggressive against better competition. So while he only “scores about 5 more PPG than Smith” his numbers are brought down by the fact that he had games early in the year where he could have gone off but didn’t. Those guarantee games don’t matter.

Now let’s put Smith’s conference numbers up against Jimmer with the note that the RPI score has the Mountain West rating (from 0 up to 1) scale of .5689 and the ACC being .5604.

10 Smith games, 37.0 minutes, 43.5 FG%, 34.0 3FG%, 1.29 PPS, 5.4 APG, 2.6 TOPG, 23.8 PPG

10 Jimmer games, 37.5 minutes, 47.1 FG%, 48.2 3FG%, 1.57 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 32.6 PPG

And games against the RPI 100.

14 Smith games, 34.9 minutes, 48.9 FG%, 36.9 3FG%, 1.46 PPS, 4.8 APG, 2.9 TOPG, 22.9 PPG

13 Jimmer games, 36.7 minutes, 48.0 FG%, 44.9 3FG%, 1.53 PPS, 4.5 APG, 3.7 TOPG, 30.1 PPG

My point is that Duke has other dangerous options, and teams cant just single out Smith. He gets alot of better looks, matchups and most importantly open shots. Freddette has to work for everything he gets and rarely gets uncontested shots. Part of the reason he is off the ball so much is because he has a better chance of creating space and not getting trapped that way.

My point is that Duke has other dangerous options, and teams cant just single out Smith. He gets alot of better looks, matchups and most importantly open shots. Freddette has to work for everything he gets and rarely gets uncontested shots. Part of the reason he is off the ball so much is because he has a better chance of creating space and not getting trapped that way.

Urban, Nolan Smith is a great college player and one of my favorites. But he is absolutely NOT a point guard in the NBA. He averages a decent amount of assists, but he still doesn’t run the offense nearly as well as Scheyer or Irving did. Countless times every game Dawkins or Curry are open on the wing and smith fails to find them. He is a decent passer for a 2 and he can handle the ball pretty well, but I wouldn’t call him more of a pure point than Fredette, because his court vision simply isn’t as good. 

Urban, Nolan Smith is a great college player and one of my favorites. But he is absolutely NOT a point guard in the NBA. He averages a decent amount of assists, but he still doesn’t run the offense nearly as well as Scheyer or Irving did. Countless times every game Dawkins or Curry are open on the wing and smith fails to find them. He is a decent passer for a 2 and he can handle the ball pretty well, but I wouldn’t call him more of a pure point than Fredette, because his court vision simply isn’t as good. 

You guys all lost sight of the point. I may have admittedly even said acouple things i didnt exactly mean. My point was the margin between the two players isnt that big. Dont throw 12 stat lines that proved only,

A. Smith is better at home then on the road

B. Fredette plays better vs the RPI 100 (which, the lower half of isnt even any good, and doesnt effect Smith in any way)

C. Fredette has been better in conference. What does this mean? You are stating the ACC is weak, so why would Smith’s conference games mean as much since its so inferior to the mountain west, whose RPI is completely skewed because it has 2 teams in the top 10.

D. Smith is more efficient vs the RPI 100 then Fredette.

These points dont tell me Fredette is a much better player. Which is all I am arguing, that they are close. If teams arent putting there top perimeter defender on Smith, i really dont know why. But go ahead and argue that Jimmer putting up 26 against a bad Wyoming team is more impressive than Smith scoring 34 vs Carolina.

You guys all lost sight of the point. I may have admittedly even said acouple things i didnt exactly mean. My point was the margin between the two players isnt that big. Dont throw 12 stat lines that proved only,

A. Smith is better at home then on the road

B. Fredette plays better vs the RPI 100 (which, the lower half of isnt even any good, and doesnt effect Smith in any way)

C. Fredette has been better in conference. What does this mean? You are stating the ACC is weak, so why would Smith’s conference games mean as much since its so inferior to the mountain west, whose RPI is completely skewed because it has 2 teams in the top 10.

D. Smith is more efficient vs the RPI 100 then Fredette.

These points dont tell me Fredette is a much better player. Which is all I am arguing, that they are close. If teams arent putting there top perimeter defender on Smith, i really dont know why. But go ahead and argue that Jimmer putting up 26 against a bad Wyoming team is more impressive than Smith scoring 34 vs Carolina.

Heres a reasonable question, what happens if Fredette turns out to be Adam Morrison? Are all of you going to be crying in your sleep because an unathletic defensive liability doesnt find a spot in the NBA?

I think Fredette is a lotto pick and Smith isnt. But acting like Fredette is some kind of cant miss prospect and Smith isnt even gonna get drafted is just stupid.

Heres a reasonable question, what happens if Fredette turns out to be Adam Morrison? Are all of you going to be crying in your sleep because an unathletic defensive liability doesnt find a spot in the NBA?

I think Fredette is a lotto pick and Smith isnt. But acting like Fredette is some kind of cant miss prospect and Smith isnt even gonna get drafted is just stupid.

By no measure is Smith more efficient than Fredette. You want me to throw out the true field goal percentages or efficiency shooting percentages as well? He shoots more efficiently across the board, he gets to the line more where he shoots a higher percentage, he is better from three, and despite being one of the most used players in the country is not significantly more likely to turn it over. Where is Smith more efficient? You need to get your facts straight. The same goes with your insistence that the ACC is somehow superior to the MWC. San Diego State and BYU are no more carrying that league than Duke and UNC. Take a whiff of Wake Forest, NC State, and Georgia Tech and then try to assess how many of those teams in the middle of the league are only decent because of their wins over that garbage.

Conference games matter because of the scouting. The coaches know what each team wants to do better than in non-conference games. Its like the way in which divisional games in the NFL have a notable difference. Even when they aren’t directly scouting that team at a given time, they still see them because the teams all play the same schedule. The familiarity and extra knowledge matters because eventually NBA teams develop a book on players too.

Fredette is not going to be Adam Morrison. They aren’t similar players and they aren’t in similar situations. The only reason they get compared is they are both white. The Mountain West Conference is not the West Coast Conference. BYU is not in a spot where the program gets superior recruits to everyone else in the league like Gonzaga did (at that time). Gonzaga was in a very different spot as a program as the rest of the league was simply overmatched when playing them. Even when Morrison was at his best, he was a mid-range shooter whose length and high release made him a very difficult guard in college. At that level, he was able to get it off whenever he wanted. He got to the NBA, and all of a sudden that 6’5 guy from Santa Clara that tried to guard him turned into Paul Pierce. Not a lot of guys make it in the NBA when all it is they do is shoot midrange jumpers. The knee injury probably didn’t help, nor did Larry Brown, but the truth of the matter is that he never got any better than he was as a rookie. More than anything else, not working to grow as a player is the formula for being a bust. A lot of guys have overcome a lack of athleticism, and a lot of guys got into the league with little to no skills and worked their way into competency. He never got physically bigger. He didn’t use those summers with the Lakers to become the three point shooter that would make him a better player. Even now, he isn’t in the NBDL working to get better and get another shot in the NBA. What exactly exempts Adam Morrison from the bums who got paid and stopped working club?

That will not be the case for Fredette. He has a function. At very worst, Jimmer Fredette already has NBA range. He can get a team into their halfcourt sets, and can space the floor as a three point specialist. He is a guy whose resume as a college shooter is comparable and arguably superior to J.J. Redick. While Redick is overpaid and overpraised for what he does on Orlando, he is still a guy who has earned a spot in the league because of what he can do as a shooter. That is the floor for Fredette, but because he can run the point (which Redick never could) his upside is higher. Also boding well for Fredette is that he can absorb contact off the dribble like and create off the dribble, which Redick never did. Redick relied on coming off screens to free himself up, and Jimmer is nowhere near as reliant. As for his work ethic, I think the marked jumps that he has made every single year to get to the level he is now at shows that he is a worker.

By no measure is Smith more efficient than Fredette. You want me to throw out the true field goal percentages or efficiency shooting percentages as well? He shoots more efficiently across the board, he gets to the line more where he shoots a higher percentage, he is better from three, and despite being one of the most used players in the country is not significantly more likely to turn it over. Where is Smith more efficient? You need to get your facts straight. The same goes with your insistence that the ACC is somehow superior to the MWC. San Diego State and BYU are no more carrying that league than Duke and UNC. Take a whiff of Wake Forest, NC State, and Georgia Tech and then try to assess how many of those teams in the middle of the league are only decent because of their wins over that garbage.

Conference games matter because of the scouting. The coaches know what each team wants to do better than in non-conference games. Its like the way in which divisional games in the NFL have a notable difference. Even when they aren’t directly scouting that team at a given time, they still see them because the teams all play the same schedule. The familiarity and extra knowledge matters because eventually NBA teams develop a book on players too.

Fredette is not going to be Adam Morrison. They aren’t similar players and they aren’t in similar situations. The only reason they get compared is they are both white. The Mountain West Conference is not the West Coast Conference. BYU is not in a spot where the program gets superior recruits to everyone else in the league like Gonzaga did (at that time). Gonzaga was in a very different spot as a program as the rest of the league was simply overmatched when playing them. Even when Morrison was at his best, he was a mid-range shooter whose length and high release made him a very difficult guard in college. At that level, he was able to get it off whenever he wanted. He got to the NBA, and all of a sudden that 6’5 guy from Santa Clara that tried to guard him turned into Paul Pierce. Not a lot of guys make it in the NBA when all it is they do is shoot midrange jumpers. The knee injury probably didn’t help, nor did Larry Brown, but the truth of the matter is that he never got any better than he was as a rookie. More than anything else, not working to grow as a player is the formula for being a bust. A lot of guys have overcome a lack of athleticism, and a lot of guys got into the league with little to no skills and worked their way into competency. He never got physically bigger. He didn’t use those summers with the Lakers to become the three point shooter that would make him a better player. Even now, he isn’t in the NBDL working to get better and get another shot in the NBA. What exactly exempts Adam Morrison from the bums who got paid and stopped working club?

That will not be the case for Fredette. He has a function. At very worst, Jimmer Fredette already has NBA range. He can get a team into their halfcourt sets, and can space the floor as a three point specialist. He is a guy whose resume as a college shooter is comparable and arguably superior to J.J. Redick. While Redick is overpaid and overpraised for what he does on Orlando, he is still a guy who has earned a spot in the league because of what he can do as a shooter. That is the floor for Fredette, but because he can run the point (which Redick never could) his upside is higher. Also boding well for Fredette is that he can absorb contact off the dribble like and create off the dribble, which Redick never did. Redick relied on coming off screens to free himself up, and Jimmer is nowhere near as reliant. As for his work ethic, I think the marked jumps that he has made every single year to get to the level he is now at shows that he is a worker.