The Best PG Debate

However, the Chris Paul advocates feel it is a knock to him to even include Deron Williams in the same discussion as Paul.

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I disagree with that. I’m a CP3 backer and when I list the top PGs in the game I have CP3 at 1A and Deron as 1B. Obviously the discrepency is close. Most CP3 supporters I know feel the same way…

However, the Chris Paul advocates feel it is a knock to him to even include Deron Williams in the same discussion as Paul.

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I disagree with that. I’m a CP3 backer and when I list the top PGs in the game I have CP3 at 1A and Deron as 1B. Obviously the discrepency is close. Most CP3 supporters I know feel the same way…

I’m a cp3 fan nor a dwill fan but I must say cp3 makes bums or below average players relevant like Chandler, pargo, he made David west a all-star, rasual butler

I’m a cp3 fan nor a dwill fan but I must say cp3 makes bums or below average players relevant like Chandler, pargo, he made David west a all-star, rasual butler

So he puts up more assists because he plays with less talent? I’m a huge CP3 fan, so I obviously think he’s better…like WizKid said, he made players like Tyson Chandler and David West look like All-Stars

So he puts up more assists because he plays with less talent? I’m a huge CP3 fan, so I obviously think he’s better…like WizKid said, he made players like Tyson Chandler and David West look like All-Stars

i have them as 1a and 1 b as well with rondo and nash not for behind if rondo contuies this pace all year i mite have to have 1 a 1 b and 1 c

i have them as 1a and 1 b as well with rondo and nash not for behind if rondo contuies this pace all year i mite have to have 1 a 1 b and 1 c

CP3 does the things only purists of the game realizes..Thats what separates him from D-Will who i think is number 2..

But isnt it strange that if CP3,D-Will,Rondo,Rose and Wall were coming out of college next year Wall would be the 1st Pick…lol

CP3 does the things only purists of the game realizes..Thats what separates him from D-Will who i think is number 2..

But isnt it strange that if CP3,D-Will,Rondo,Rose and Wall were coming out of college next year Wall would be the 1st Pick…lol

chris paul… i repeat is the best PG in the nba today… without a question…only when healthy of course

chris paul… i repeat is the best PG in the nba today… without a question…only when healthy of course

There seems to be so much more talk these days about the Derrick Rose’s, Russel Westbrook’s, and John Wall’s … but Chris Paul and Derron Williams are still ahead of all those guys

… i don’t think that from any knowledgable basketball fan you’ll find much discrepency in the fact that Chris Paul and Derron Williams are the top two point guards in the league, there’s those guys .. and then everybody else

that being said, i’ve always thought chris paul was the leader of the pack, but started last season to hop aboard the derron williams bandwagon because paul was injured and who knew if he was going to be able to come back at peak form? … well, he has and once again this season i think he’s confirmed why he’s the best point guard in the NBA – Derron Williams is a great player too though and not that far behind, it’s certainly not an insult to include him in the discussion

There seems to be so much more talk these days about the Derrick Rose’s, Russel Westbrook’s, and John Wall’s … but Chris Paul and Derron Williams are still ahead of all those guys

… i don’t think that from any knowledgable basketball fan you’ll find much discrepency in the fact that Chris Paul and Derron Williams are the top two point guards in the league, there’s those guys .. and then everybody else

that being said, i’ve always thought chris paul was the leader of the pack, but started last season to hop aboard the derron williams bandwagon because paul was injured and who knew if he was going to be able to come back at peak form? … well, he has and once again this season i think he’s confirmed why he’s the best point guard in the NBA – Derron Williams is a great player too though and not that far behind, it’s certainly not an insult to include him in the discussion

I’ve been watching them both very closely and though Williams is bigger, I think Paul is better.

I can’t quite put my finger on why I like Paul better. I feel like Paul just has more natural God given talent and is getting the max out of it too. He’s in complete control out there. Just an amazing player.

I also think Paul is the better leader, especially vocally. He just seems like he always knows what’s going on with everybody.

I’ve been watching them both very closely and though Williams is bigger, I think Paul is better.

I can’t quite put my finger on why I like Paul better. I feel like Paul just has more natural God given talent and is getting the max out of it too. He’s in complete control out there. Just an amazing player.

I also think Paul is the better leader, especially vocally. He just seems like he always knows what’s going on with everybody.

 This debate is like Brady vs Manning. Brady has more wins when it counts, but more because his coach is as good as it gets. Brady wins more head to head matchups against Manning, but to me, its really clear who’s better based on the level of control.

Paul, like Manning, is as good as it gets when it comes to being in complete control. He uses his immaculate dribble, jab steps, headfakes and crossovers the way manning uses his snap count. He reads the defense by forcing them to commit before theyre ready, giving Paul the ability to pull up, attack the rim, or dish off to anyone open. He’s slice the defense, weaving to the front of the rim, maintain his dribble and draw away a big from the post and lob it to the open man.

He’ll deliver PERFECT passes in the break or while he’s double teamed. As a matter of fact, he probably the hard man to double team because his ball control and body control are so good, he’ll split the defense before they even converge. He NEVER has his head down. Not attacking the basket, not facing pressure on the the point line. His court awareness is as good as anyone in the league. And his shooting is going from very good to elite.

He’s inline to get 50-40-90 percentages one of these years. Combine that with the fact that his turnover rate is the best I’ve seen for anyone that handles the ball as much as Paul, and that he’s in contention for the league lead in steals (more than half I’d be willing to bet are on the ball), and you have the skillset of a point god. the 5 boards are just to finish the deal.

How many players can you say have a realistic chance at 20 pts 5 reb 10 ast 2.5 stls, 2.5 tos and 50-40-90? Now how many players in the history of the game? If Paul stays healthy and continues to play at this level, we may be looking at the most talented point guard of all time.

 This debate is like Brady vs Manning. Brady has more wins when it counts, but more because his coach is as good as it gets. Brady wins more head to head matchups against Manning, but to me, its really clear who’s better based on the level of control.

Paul, like Manning, is as good as it gets when it comes to being in complete control. He uses his immaculate dribble, jab steps, headfakes and crossovers the way manning uses his snap count. He reads the defense by forcing them to commit before theyre ready, giving Paul the ability to pull up, attack the rim, or dish off to anyone open. He’s slice the defense, weaving to the front of the rim, maintain his dribble and draw away a big from the post and lob it to the open man.

He’ll deliver PERFECT passes in the break or while he’s double teamed. As a matter of fact, he probably the hard man to double team because his ball control and body control are so good, he’ll split the defense before they even converge. He NEVER has his head down. Not attacking the basket, not facing pressure on the the point line. His court awareness is as good as anyone in the league. And his shooting is going from very good to elite.

He’s inline to get 50-40-90 percentages one of these years. Combine that with the fact that his turnover rate is the best I’ve seen for anyone that handles the ball as much as Paul, and that he’s in contention for the league lead in steals (more than half I’d be willing to bet are on the ball), and you have the skillset of a point god. the 5 boards are just to finish the deal.

How many players can you say have a realistic chance at 20 pts 5 reb 10 ast 2.5 stls, 2.5 tos and 50-40-90? Now how many players in the history of the game? If Paul stays healthy and continues to play at this level, we may be looking at the most talented point guard of all time.

That’s a good comparison… Paul is the Peyton Manning of basketball lol.

That’s a good comparison… Paul is the Peyton Manning of basketball lol.

Plus Chris Paul doesn’t throw basketballs at Gordon Hayward’s face

Plus Chris Paul doesn’t throw basketballs at Gordon Hayward’s face

 Tom Brady was better than Manning,, but I see the comparison

 Tom Brady was better than Manning,, but I see the comparison

if pauls teammates are less talented why is his team better right now?

(because paul is better)

if pauls teammates are less talented why is his team better right now?

(because paul is better)

ItsDwightHoward – Three games into the season, Mr.Knick asked me something along the lines of "How can you still believe Williams is better?" Also, look at some of the posts in this topic.

Deron Williams could average 25 points a game along with 12 assists, and lead the Jazz to a championship, but any intelligent person would still be able to make a valid argument that Chris Paul is better.

Dead horse.

Stop beating it.

ItsDwightHoward – Three games into the season, Mr.Knick asked me something along the lines of "How can you still believe Williams is better?" Also, look at some of the posts in this topic.

Deron Williams could average 25 points a game along with 12 assists, and lead the Jazz to a championship, but any intelligent person would still be able to make a valid argument that Chris Paul is better.

Dead horse.

Stop beating it.

I think like someone on Espn said it is all about need.  Guys are so good but in different ways that you can make a legit argument for both guys.  Also saying one on one results has nothing to do with being a better point guard.  Chris Paul is more a facilitator that can score points when needed.  Some of his great passes don’t lead to assists but he manages that team so well that people take it for granted.  Chris Paul is a superstar and he makes every player he plays with better.  He can do offense defense.  Williams sometimes put up huge numbers but I still feel Paul’s game management is light years ahead but Williams is great in his own right so it is a close one but I would put Williams slight below Paul but I can see how those who like Williams could feel that Deron is better.

I think like someone on Espn said it is all about need.  Guys are so good but in different ways that you can make a legit argument for both guys.  Also saying one on one results has nothing to do with being a better point guard.  Chris Paul is more a facilitator that can score points when needed.  Some of his great passes don’t lead to assists but he manages that team so well that people take it for granted.  Chris Paul is a superstar and he makes every player he plays with better.  He can do offense defense.  Williams sometimes put up huge numbers but I still feel Paul’s game management is light years ahead but Williams is great in his own right so it is a close one but I would put Williams slight below Paul but I can see how those who like Williams could feel that Deron is better.

He was obviously being sarcastic. He is a Jazz fan. His point is that no matter what Williams does, people still seem to be convinced that Paul is better.

He was obviously being sarcastic. He is a Jazz fan. His point is that no matter what Williams does, people still seem to be convinced that Paul is better.

I honestly have never understood how Deron Williams could be considered better than Chris Paul. It’s close and everything, but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball. He can score, dish, he’s smart and a charismatic leader. He’s also clearly an extremely hard worker who gets as much out of himself as he does out of his teammates. And he’s also more efficient. I watch Deron Williams play and say he’s an elite PG. But when you watch Chris Paul play, he’ll literally take over a game at all facets and get everyone else to step up too. Paul is simply a special player. He’s a top 5 PLAYER in the NBA, I don’t think you can say that about Williams.

Like Indianabasketball said, IMO Deron Williams only has a size advantage over him. Everything else is Chris Paul

I honestly have never understood how Deron Williams could be considered better than Chris Paul. It’s close and everything, but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball. He can score, dish, he’s smart and a charismatic leader. He’s also clearly an extremely hard worker who gets as much out of himself as he does out of his teammates. And he’s also more efficient. I watch Deron Williams play and say he’s an elite PG. But when you watch Chris Paul play, he’ll literally take over a game at all facets and get everyone else to step up too. Paul is simply a special player. He’s a top 5 PLAYER in the NBA, I don’t think you can say that about Williams.

Like Indianabasketball said, IMO Deron Williams only has a size advantage over him. Everything else is Chris Paul

My point was that no matter what happens this season, either player could be considered better. Context clues, my friends. Even if Williams did average 30 points and 15 assists, one could say the Paul is more important to his team, plays better defense, is a better rebounder, etc…

Some people think that there is an obvious answer, and everybody who disagrees is stupid. Like "Chris Paul is obviously better. If you think that Williams is better than you are biased." That is where I disagree.

"What if I tell you Paul can average 30 and 15 and lead the Hornets to Championship?"

Then any intelligent Jazz fan could still make a valid argument that Deron Williams is the better player. Do you see my point here?

JNixon-Iggy9 – "but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball"

No, no, no, no. YOU can simply tell. I cannot. I know of many, many other people (non-Jazz fans too) who believe that Williams is better, and has been better since before Paul’s injury. I understand people for thinking Paul is better, but I believe Williams is better. I have made my points, and will not repeat them due to the fact that you all seem to ignore them and write me off as biased.

You know what, I think apples are better than oranges. In fact, apples are obviously better than oranges. Anyone who disagrees is either a dumbass or an orange-farmer.

My point was that no matter what happens this season, either player could be considered better. Context clues, my friends. Even if Williams did average 30 points and 15 assists, one could say the Paul is more important to his team, plays better defense, is a better rebounder, etc…

Some people think that there is an obvious answer, and everybody who disagrees is stupid. Like "Chris Paul is obviously better. If you think that Williams is better than you are biased." That is where I disagree.

"What if I tell you Paul can average 30 and 15 and lead the Hornets to Championship?"

Then any intelligent Jazz fan could still make a valid argument that Deron Williams is the better player. Do you see my point here?

JNixon-Iggy9 – "but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball"

No, no, no, no. YOU can simply tell. I cannot. I know of many, many other people (non-Jazz fans too) who believe that Williams is better, and has been better since before Paul’s injury. I understand people for thinking Paul is better, but I believe Williams is better. I have made my points, and will not repeat them due to the fact that you all seem to ignore them and write me off as biased.

You know what, I think apples are better than oranges. In fact, apples are obviously better than oranges. Anyone who disagrees is either a dumbass or an orange-farmer.

Apples are definitely better then Oranges.

Apples are definitely better then Oranges.

I’m beginning to hate these forums.

I’m beginning to hate these forums.

"JNixon-Iggy9 – "but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball"

No, no, no, no. YOU can simply tell. I cannot. I know of many, many other people (non-Jazz fans too) who believe that Williams is better, and has been better since before Paul’s injury. I understand people for thinking Paul is better, but I believe Williams is better. I have made my points, and will not repeat them due to the fact that you all seem to ignore them and write me off as biased."

It’s kinda hard not to write you off as biased. You are a Jazz fan who is saying a Jazz player is better despite little to nothing besides opinions from people to hold weight in the argument. Chris Paul pretty much consistently puts up better stats, leads teams with mediocre or below talent to the playoffs and/or gets them to overachieve, and is unarguably a better leader.

The only thing you ever say is stuff like "Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith thought Deron Williams was better at the beginning of the season last year" and "I don’t wanna argue it, nobody listens to what I say." It’s hard to think you’re not biased when you won’t truly argue a point, even when all that appears to be inevitable could be disproven by simply saying something concrete.

"JNixon-Iggy9 – "but just watching games you can simply tell Paul is the best PG in basketball"

No, no, no, no. YOU can simply tell. I cannot. I know of many, many other people (non-Jazz fans too) who believe that Williams is better, and has been better since before Paul’s injury. I understand people for thinking Paul is better, but I believe Williams is better. I have made my points, and will not repeat them due to the fact that you all seem to ignore them and write me off as biased."

It’s kinda hard not to write you off as biased. You are a Jazz fan who is saying a Jazz player is better despite little to nothing besides opinions from people to hold weight in the argument. Chris Paul pretty much consistently puts up better stats, leads teams with mediocre or below talent to the playoffs and/or gets them to overachieve, and is unarguably a better leader.

The only thing you ever say is stuff like "Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith thought Deron Williams was better at the beginning of the season last year" and "I don’t wanna argue it, nobody listens to what I say." It’s hard to think you’re not biased when you won’t truly argue a point, even when all that appears to be inevitable could be disproven by simply saying something concrete.

"despite little to nothing besides opinions from people"

This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again.

"despite little to nothing besides opinions from people"

This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again.

"and is unarguably a better leader."

Really?

Convince me.

"and is unarguably a better leader."

Really?

Convince me.

"This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again."

Are you mad? lol

"This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again."

Are you mad? lol

I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally.

I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally.

I agree. You can not tell just by watching.  We had this big debate last week while at the sports bar. None of us were jazz fans or hornets fans but 6 out of the 11 people said cp3 is better and the other 5 said dwill is better. All of us watch both players play and it’s pretty much even. The best pg is dependant on each persons opinion with no right or wrong answer. If you had the majority of people saying one over the other that’s one thing but when you constantly have basketball fans saying one or the other or tied then it’s not as easy as just watching them play. It may be to some but that’s their personal preverance but for the most part it’s just about dead even.  On another site they have dwill as the better player but only by a very lil bit

I agree. You can not tell just by watching.  We had this big debate last week while at the sports bar. None of us were jazz fans or hornets fans but 6 out of the 11 people said cp3 is better and the other 5 said dwill is better. All of us watch both players play and it’s pretty much even. The best pg is dependant on each persons opinion with no right or wrong answer. If you had the majority of people saying one over the other that’s one thing but when you constantly have basketball fans saying one or the other or tied then it’s not as easy as just watching them play. It may be to some but that’s their personal preverance but for the most part it’s just about dead even.  On another site they have dwill as the better player but only by a very lil bit

Quincey = The voice of reason.

Quincey = The voice of reason.

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

Virtual hug. It’ll be alright.

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

Virtual hug. It’ll be alright.

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

Oh shut up crybaby… Not only are you biased, you’re also a hypocrite. Here you are complaining about how someone is calling YOU biased, but didn’t you just try to call me biased just because I said Deron Williams throwing the ball at Gordon Hayward was a dick head move?

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

Oh shut up crybaby… Not only are you biased, you’re also a hypocrite. Here you are complaining about how someone is calling YOU biased, but didn’t you just try to call me biased just because I said Deron Williams throwing the ball at Gordon Hayward was a dick head move?

I doubt I ever called you biased.

I’ll look up the topic. You remember the name of it?

I doubt I ever called you biased.

I’ll look up the topic. You remember the name of it?

BillyK – "Hayward needs to focus and step his game up this isnt the Horizon league… Its funny how people are so quick to critcize some players (they dont like) and stick up for players they like…"

llperez – "billyk, i dont think being a fan of certain players is an issue here. WHat draws you to that conlcusion?"

butidonthavemoney – "I think he was addressing IndianaBasketball, AKA ButlerBulldogs.

I agree with everyone. Deron Williams was obviously frustrated and, like Sloan said, there was a better way of letting him know to cut next time. I’ve watched him for a long time, and while he’s never done anything like this before, he isn’t exactly the nicest guy you’ll ever meet. His comments after Western Conference Finals trip a few years back were indicative of that."

That was all I could find. If I missed something, please let me know.

If not, I would like an apology.

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/moving-onsuns-jazz

BillyK – "Hayward needs to focus and step his game up this isnt the Horizon league… Its funny how people are so quick to critcize some players (they dont like) and stick up for players they like…"

llperez – "billyk, i dont think being a fan of certain players is an issue here. WHat draws you to that conlcusion?"

butidonthavemoney – "I think he was addressing IndianaBasketball, AKA ButlerBulldogs.

I agree with everyone. Deron Williams was obviously frustrated and, like Sloan said, there was a better way of letting him know to cut next time. I’ve watched him for a long time, and while he’s never done anything like this before, he isn’t exactly the nicest guy you’ll ever meet. His comments after Western Conference Finals trip a few years back were indicative of that."

That was all I could find. If I missed something, please let me know.

If not, I would like an apology.

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/moving-onsuns-jazz

I also said this…

"I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

Of course, that was not intended to imply that your argument was flawed due to a bias.

I also said this…

"I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

Of course, that was not intended to imply that your argument was flawed due to a bias.

"I think he was addressing IndianaBasketball, AKA ButlerBulldogs."

You weren’t implying that I was biased about Hayward by posting… "AKA ButlerBulldogs?"

"I think he was addressing IndianaBasketball, AKA ButlerBulldogs."

You weren’t implying that I was biased about Hayward by posting… "AKA ButlerBulldogs?"

That used to be your name correct?

I was explaining to llperez where the idea that you could be biased came from. If llperez wasn’t aware that you were a Butler fan, then he wouldn’t have known what billyk was talking about.

Personally, I’ve always thought of you as one of the most intelligent posters here. In that very same topic, I gave you a bunch of positive points. You made me mad at one point when you belittled me during our argument, but I didn’t think I had done anything to warrent you calling me out like you just did.

That used to be your name correct?

I was explaining to llperez where the idea that you could be biased came from. If llperez wasn’t aware that you were a Butler fan, then he wouldn’t have known what billyk was talking about.

Personally, I’ve always thought of you as one of the most intelligent posters here. In that very same topic, I gave you a bunch of positive points. You made me mad at one point when you belittled me during our argument, but I didn’t think I had done anything to warrent you calling me out like you just did.

I don’t agree with the better teammate arguements some people make. David west was helped by Paul but Paul didn’t make him a allstar west abilities did that. Someone could make the arguement about west making Paul a allstar which would be just as dumb.  Just because someone has worst teammates but they put up the same stats as someone with better teammates doesn’t mean the player in the worst team is better. I really couldn’t tell you who is better because it’s so close. One day I’d have dwill the next cp3. 

By the eat David west averaged less than a point less without Paul and shot a better field goal
Percentage

I don’t agree with the better teammate arguements some people make. David west was helped by Paul but Paul didn’t make him a allstar west abilities did that. Someone could make the arguement about west making Paul a allstar which would be just as dumb.  Just because someone has worst teammates but they put up the same stats as someone with better teammates doesn’t mean the player in the worst team is better. I really couldn’t tell you who is better because it’s so close. One day I’d have dwill the next cp3. 

By the eat David west averaged less than a point less without Paul and shot a better field goal
Percentage

"That used to be your name correct?

I was explaining to llperez where the idea that you could be biased came from. If llperez wasn’t aware that you were a Butler fan, then he wouldn’t have known what billyk was talking about."

Who do you think you’re manipulating? Llperez has been on this site longer than anybody. I think he knows I changed my name to ButlerBulldogs before the NCAA tournament. 

"Personally, I’ve always thought of you as one of the most intelligent posters here. In that very same topic, I gave you a bunch of positive points."

This is also another form of manipulation. It’s called, "Buttering You Up."

"That used to be your name correct?

I was explaining to llperez where the idea that you could be biased came from. If llperez wasn’t aware that you were a Butler fan, then he wouldn’t have known what billyk was talking about."

Who do you think you’re manipulating? Llperez has been on this site longer than anybody. I think he knows I changed my name to ButlerBulldogs before the NCAA tournament. 

"Personally, I’ve always thought of you as one of the most intelligent posters here. In that very same topic, I gave you a bunch of positive points."

This is also another form of manipulation. It’s called, "Buttering You Up."

I know llperez has been around. That’s why I was surprised he didn’t pick up on billyk’s "allegations".

You’re acting like I’ve have some ill-intent here. I really don’t. We had an argument, I don’t know why you are holding it over my head. I swear I didn’t ever intentionally imply that you were biased. I’ve always tried hard to be a respected poster on this site, and you don’t get there by writing people off because of their favorite teams/players.

I have no reason to manipulate you. What do I possibly have to gain here?

I know llperez has been around. That’s why I was surprised he didn’t pick up on billyk’s "allegations".

You’re acting like I’ve have some ill-intent here. I really don’t. We had an argument, I don’t know why you are holding it over my head. I swear I didn’t ever intentionally imply that you were biased. I’ve always tried hard to be a respected poster on this site, and you don’t get there by writing people off because of their favorite teams/players.

I have no reason to manipulate you. What do I possibly have to gain here?

One thing people failed to mention when it comes to the CP3 v Deron Williams debate is that Williams plays in a highly coordinated offense where everyone is moving in synch so he knows where people are going to be because it is all well-rehearsed. We’ve seen what happens when someone doesn’t make the right move, Williams gets frustrated. If you look at Paul, he’s pretty much creating it all himself out there and just reacting to what the D is giving him on the fly. This is why I remain convinced Chris Paul is better, in addition to the other reasons people have given here.

One thing people failed to mention when it comes to the CP3 v Deron Williams debate is that Williams plays in a highly coordinated offense where everyone is moving in synch so he knows where people are going to be because it is all well-rehearsed. We’ve seen what happens when someone doesn’t make the right move, Williams gets frustrated. If you look at Paul, he’s pretty much creating it all himself out there and just reacting to what the D is giving him on the fly. This is why I remain convinced Chris Paul is better, in addition to the other reasons people have given here.

I’m not holding anything over your head. This is the first time I’ve said anything about it. It’s over then… I just thought that little rant about how you "HATE" when people tell you you’re biased was a little over the top and hypocritical.

I’m not holding anything over your head. This is the first time I’ve said anything about it. It’s over then… I just thought that little rant about how you "HATE" when people tell you you’re biased was a little over the top and hypocritical.

My pick for best PG in CP3.

I don’t think D-Will could lead a team with guys like D-West, Okafor, Ariza, Bellineli, Green and Smith as his group to work with IMO. Rondo cannot lead them because he’s greatest scorer.

My pick for best PG in CP3.

I don’t think D-Will could lead a team with guys like D-West, Okafor, Ariza, Bellineli, Green and Smith as his group to work with IMO. Rondo cannot lead them because he’s greatest scorer.

I do hate it when people tell me I’m biased.

I also hate it when people say I’m hypocritical, without having anything substantial to back it up.

I’m not keen on people calling me a crybaby, but that one might be true.

I must have really hurt your feelings during that argument to make you call me out like that two and a half weeks later.

I do hate it when people tell me I’m biased.

I also hate it when people say I’m hypocritical, without having anything substantial to back it up.

I’m not keen on people calling me a crybaby, but that one might be true.

I must have really hurt your feelings during that argument to make you call me out like that two and a half weeks later.

"This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again."

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

^^^ Who’s the one with hurt feelings??? ^^^

You can keep up the little online act if you want. You got mad that I said Deron Williams, your favorite point guard, was a dick head and not a great vocal leader, when he threw the ball at a rookie… So you tried to "sneak diss" and imply that I was biased.

Now seriously… I’m done. Point is made.

"This confirms what I was saying before. You IGNORE me, and write me off as biased. I have had the Williams vs. Paul argument with you at least two or three times before, and I have absolutely made valid arguments. I have stated several times, I WILL NOT HAVE THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN. You would simply just ignore me again and a few months later, you would say something like this again."

"I hate, hate, HATE when people tell me I’m biased. You’re basically calling me a liar, and I always take that personally."

^^^ Who’s the one with hurt feelings??? ^^^

You can keep up the little online act if you want. You got mad that I said Deron Williams, your favorite point guard, was a dick head and not a great vocal leader, when he threw the ball at a rookie… So you tried to "sneak diss" and imply that I was biased.

Now seriously… I’m done. Point is made.

I do have hurt feelings. I’ve made that clear.

At least I’m not making stuff up, and calling people out for something that never happened.

You have lost a lot of respect from me. Calling me a malicious, biased, lying hypocrite and not being able to back such an erronious claim is low.

You mad at Deron Williams for disrespecting Hayward? You’re disrespecting me for NO REASON. You are the hypocrite here.

BTW, you can’t insult somebody like that and then say, "I’m done. Point is made." You haven’t made a point. You’ve just spewed nonsense and tried to pass it off using your reputation as substance.

I do have hurt feelings. I’ve made that clear.

At least I’m not making stuff up, and calling people out for something that never happened.

You have lost a lot of respect from me. Calling me a malicious, biased, lying hypocrite and not being able to back such an erronious claim is low.

You mad at Deron Williams for disrespecting Hayward? You’re disrespecting me for NO REASON. You are the hypocrite here.

BTW, you can’t insult somebody like that and then say, "I’m done. Point is made." You haven’t made a point. You’ve just spewed nonsense and tried to pass it off using your reputation as substance.

Come on guys, it’s not that serious.

Come on guys, it’s not that serious.

"I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

How does THAT not back up my claims? It’s right there to see. Not only were you mad I posted something negative about Williams, you tried to imply that I was biased.

Like I asked above… Who are you trying to manipulate? That quote above proves that you were trying to tell me that I was being biased. "I know you like Hayward…" What more do you need? IF you weren’t trying to imply that I was being biased, you wouldn’t have typed, "I know you like Hayward…"

And why we’re still on that specific situation… You know what? It had absolutely nothing to do with Gordon Hayward. It had 100% to do with Deron Williams. I never thought that was his personality. He could’ve done that to CJ Miles and I’d have posted the same thing.

"I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

How does THAT not back up my claims? It’s right there to see. Not only were you mad I posted something negative about Williams, you tried to imply that I was biased.

Like I asked above… Who are you trying to manipulate? That quote above proves that you were trying to tell me that I was being biased. "I know you like Hayward…" What more do you need? IF you weren’t trying to imply that I was being biased, you wouldn’t have typed, "I know you like Hayward…"

And why we’re still on that specific situation… You know what? It had absolutely nothing to do with Gordon Hayward. It had 100% to do with Deron Williams. I never thought that was his personality. He could’ve done that to CJ Miles and I’d have posted the same thing.

BACK ON TOPIC!

What Williams has is superior size, strength, explosiveness, and "kill mode". He’ll have moments where he’ll out physical or out work you on moves that would normally lead to turnovers or terrible looks. He’s a better bad shot maker, so its understandable where people would want you over certain players. Kobe make make the wrong play from a team standpoint but his skill makes it work. Williams has that ability. Paul however, just rarely makes these decisions. He rarely gets a bad look, takes a bad shot, makes a bad pass. Its like if Ray Allens offensive game included exceptional ball handling and exceptional passing. He’s gritty, tough, a ball hawk, a great shooter, and a great rebounder. He’s not as flashy as Williams, though he has his moments, but Paul just plays the way I feel a consumate point guard should play. 

BACK ON TOPIC!

What Williams has is superior size, strength, explosiveness, and "kill mode". He’ll have moments where he’ll out physical or out work you on moves that would normally lead to turnovers or terrible looks. He’s a better bad shot maker, so its understandable where people would want you over certain players. Kobe make make the wrong play from a team standpoint but his skill makes it work. Williams has that ability. Paul however, just rarely makes these decisions. He rarely gets a bad look, takes a bad shot, makes a bad pass. Its like if Ray Allens offensive game included exceptional ball handling and exceptional passing. He’s gritty, tough, a ball hawk, a great shooter, and a great rebounder. He’s not as flashy as Williams, though he has his moments, but Paul just plays the way I feel a consumate point guard should play. 

That was not meant to imply that you were biased. You do like Hayward, do you not? I never said that it affected your ability to argue on the subject. Hell, that quip wasn’t even directed to the argument we were having (Deron Williams being a d*ck).

I was making an observation that turned out to be right…

Hayward can’t run the Jazz offense right now. Hayward has been riding the bench lately.

You are the one manipulating things, trying to make something out of nothing.

That was not meant to imply that you were biased. You do like Hayward, do you not? I never said that it affected your ability to argue on the subject. Hell, that quip wasn’t even directed to the argument we were having (Deron Williams being a d*ck).

I was making an observation that turned out to be right…

Hayward can’t run the Jazz offense right now. Hayward has been riding the bench lately.

You are the one manipulating things, trying to make something out of nothing.

Can’t we all be friends here? Beef between Nomoney and Indianabasketball, Beef between Jammin-Lemmon and Indiana Basketball… nbadraft.net should be like one big happy family.

Can’t we all be friends here? Beef between Nomoney and Indianabasketball, Beef between Jammin-Lemmon and Indiana Basketball… nbadraft.net should be like one big happy family.

Which is exactly my point. The argument had nothing to do whether or not Hayward could run the offense. It was specifically about how Williams, the leader of the Utah Jazz, treated a teammate. I thought that was poor leadership. Your response was, "I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

I just don’t get that… It had zero to do with me liking Hayward or him running the Jazz system. To me, that’s you trying to tell me that the only reason I had a problem with what Williams did was because it was involving a player I liked. Which would be you implying that I’m biased.

Like someone said above, it’s not that serious. I guess reputation and respect on an online forum means a lot to you. Not to me. I could care less. I state my opinions and then leave. I could care less what people think.

Which is exactly my point. The argument had nothing to do whether or not Hayward could run the offense. It was specifically about how Williams, the leader of the Utah Jazz, treated a teammate. I thought that was poor leadership. Your response was, "I know you like Hayward and want to see him do well, but if he can’t play in the Jazz system then he needs to sit his ass down on the bench."

I just don’t get that… It had zero to do with me liking Hayward or him running the Jazz system. To me, that’s you trying to tell me that the only reason I had a problem with what Williams did was because it was involving a player I liked. Which would be you implying that I’m biased.

Like someone said above, it’s not that serious. I guess reputation and respect on an online forum means a lot to you. Not to me. I could care less. I state my opinions and then leave. I could care less what people think.

And I don’t have beef with anybody on here. I challenge people’s opinion’s as much as anybody else. People just make it a big deal because I’m among the leaders in points or something. IF I didn’t have any points, it wouldn’t be a big deal lol.

I don’t have a problem with no money. I just thought his little rant was comedy, so I responded.

And I don’t have beef with anybody on here. I challenge people’s opinion’s as much as anybody else. People just make it a big deal because I’m among the leaders in points or something. IF I didn’t have any points, it wouldn’t be a big deal lol.

I don’t have a problem with no money. I just thought his little rant was comedy, so I responded.

It’s serious to me. How can you say something like this isn’t serious?

"Oh shut up crybaby… Not only are you biased, you’re also a hypocrite. Here you are complaining about how someone is calling YOU biased, but didn’t you just try to call me biased just because I said Deron Williams throwing the ball at Gordon Hayward was a dick head move?"

I can’t prove my intent. You obviously think that I’m trying to mess with your head for some reason, so there is no way your going to change your strong feelings about me.

It’s serious to me. How can you say something like this isn’t serious?

"Oh shut up crybaby… Not only are you biased, you’re also a hypocrite. Here you are complaining about how someone is calling YOU biased, but didn’t you just try to call me biased just because I said Deron Williams throwing the ball at Gordon Hayward was a dick head move?"

I can’t prove my intent. You obviously think that I’m trying to mess with your head for some reason, so there is no way your going to change your strong feelings about me.

Marco Belinelli is ballin this year, /thread

Marco Belinelli is ballin this year, /thread

"And I don’t have beef with anybody on here. I challenge people’s opinion’s as much as anybody else"

That is true. Indiana has challenged my opinion multiple times, and I’ve seen him do it to others. I don’t think that means he has beef with anyone, he just argues his points, just like stanford hoops or Iggy. Honestly, it wouldn’t be that great of a forum if opinions weren’t challenged.

"And I don’t have beef with anybody on here. I challenge people’s opinion’s as much as anybody else"

That is true. Indiana has challenged my opinion multiple times, and I’ve seen him do it to others. I don’t think that means he has beef with anyone, he just argues his points, just like stanford hoops or Iggy. Honestly, it wouldn’t be that great of a forum if opinions weren’t challenged.

We also need to consider that Darko plays all over the court and makes all kinds of plays for the Timberwolves, and if he can be considered a point guard, than he is obviously the best on in the NBA. 

We also need to consider that Darko plays all over the court and makes all kinds of plays for the Timberwolves, and if he can be considered a point guard, than he is obviously the best on in the NBA. 

I do care what people here think of me. That’s why I try to be funny, that’s why I try to type correctly and that’s why I try to be respectful to others. That’s also why I get defensive when somebody attacks me (not my opinions or my knowledge) but who I am as a person.

I do care what people here think of me. That’s why I try to be funny, that’s why I try to type correctly and that’s why I try to be respectful to others. That’s also why I get defensive when somebody attacks me (not my opinions or my knowledge) but who I am as a person.

Don’t let it get to you, it’s just an internet forum. The only time it’s fun for me to be serious is arguing a point. I don’t care when BuckSh0t calls me a mental midget. He’s a d-bag for doing it, but it’s not going to ruin my day. You’re a respected poster on here, it’d take more then a little fight to change that.

Don’t let it get to you, it’s just an internet forum. The only time it’s fun for me to be serious is arguing a point. I don’t care when BuckSh0t calls me a mental midget. He’s a d-bag for doing it, but it’s not going to ruin my day. You’re a respected poster on here, it’d take more then a little fight to change that.

Like IndianaBasketball previously suggested, if he wasn’t a highly respected poster, I wouldn’t really care.

"You’re a respected poster on here, it’d take more then a little fight to change that."

I appreciate this sentiment though. Haha, thanks bud.

Like IndianaBasketball previously suggested, if he wasn’t a highly respected poster, I wouldn’t really care.

"You’re a respected poster on here, it’d take more then a little fight to change that."

I appreciate this sentiment though. Haha, thanks bud.

Thanks IndianaBasketball.

I’m sorry that you got the impression that I called you biased.

Thanks IndianaBasketball.

I’m sorry that you got the impression that I called you biased.

You’re welcome!

You’re welcome!

Hug it out….

homos.

Hug it out….

homos.

Don’t be jealous Mr. Lemon. You can jump in whenever you please.

Don’t be jealous Mr. Lemon. You can jump in whenever you please.

Join in on the group hug… You know you need one, especially considering how sensitive you are. You still think I have something against you? We used to play XBox 360 and everything lol. I’ll apologize to you too son.

Join in on the group hug… You know you need one, especially considering how sensitive you are. You still think I have something against you? We used to play XBox 360 and everything lol. I’ll apologize to you too son.

I like how we posted that at the same time.

…

Or I guess you beat me by a few seconds.

…

Wanna fight over it?

I like how we posted that at the same time.

…

Or I guess you beat me by a few seconds.

…

Wanna fight over it?

"We used to play XBox 360 and everything lol"

you whacked me. lol

I don’t dislike either of you, since I don’t even know you.

we cool in my eyes.

"We used to play XBox 360 and everything lol"

you whacked me. lol

I don’t dislike either of you, since I don’t even know you.

we cool in my eyes.

Nope… I’ll give you the honor.

Nope… I’ll give you the honor.

^

^

When is the next nbadraft.net awards stuff? I always enjoyed those.

When is the next nbadraft.net awards stuff? I always enjoyed those.

You started the orginal one, if I’m not mistaken.

We’ll start the next time I’m in a good mood.

Lemon, you want to design the awards again?

You started the orginal one, if I’m not mistaken.

We’ll start the next time I’m in a good mood.

Lemon, you want to design the awards again?

Yes I did, but mine was just teams. I completely missed out on the one with an MVP I think. I liked the thing with nominees. I want to make second team or higher this time around…

Yes I did, but mine was just teams. I completely missed out on the one with an MVP I think. I liked the thing with nominees. I want to make second team or higher this time around…

Next time they actually put the damn awards as their avatar!

2 hours of work for nada!

Good thing is I have photoshop now, so it would be easier.

Next time they actually put the damn awards as their avatar!

2 hours of work for nada!

Good thing is I have photoshop now, so it would be easier.

McDunkin has his as his profile picture.

yupyup, I was just going to determine the nominees this year myself and let people vote on who the winners should be.

For example…

Funniest User –

a. McDunkin

b. OrangeJuiceJones

c. LeroyJenkins

d. WizKid

e. thebobster

McDunkin has his as his profile picture.

yupyup, I was just going to determine the nominees this year myself and let people vote on who the winners should be.

For example…

Funniest User –

a. McDunkin

b. OrangeJuiceJones

c. LeroyJenkins

d. WizKid

e. thebobster

Yeah, I it like that. Would you just have a huge amount of nominees for All 1st, 2nd, 3rd teams or are you not doing those?

Yeah, I it like that. Would you just have a huge amount of nominees for All 1st, 2nd, 3rd teams or are you not doing those?

Yeah, I could do that. Then make it like a point system, and place people accordingly.

Yeah, I could do that. Then make it like a point system, and place people accordingly.

Sweet!

Sweet!

Not yet. That was just an example.

But right now, it’s likely. Unless you can think of somebody better.

Not yet. That was just an example.

But right now, it’s likely. Unless you can think of somebody better.

How about Uncle Fester?

Pretty funny poster.

Anyways, any of you guys doing that essay contest competition?

How about Uncle Fester?

Pretty funny poster.

Anyways, any of you guys doing that essay contest competition?

Nah, my knowledge on college teams isn’t very good at all. I wouldn’t have any clue what I’d be talking about.

Nah, my knowledge on college teams isn’t very good at all. I wouldn’t have any clue what I’d be talking about.

I had no idea what I was talking about, yet managed to get an ACC Preview up on the main site.

Don’t tell anyone.

Hey, do you guys have any good ideas for good categories for the awards? Like Smartest, Most Creative, Forum Villian, Best N00b, etc…

I had no idea what I was talking about, yet managed to get an ACC Preview up on the main site.

Don’t tell anyone.

Hey, do you guys have any good ideas for good categories for the awards? Like Smartest, Most Creative, Forum Villian, Best N00b, etc…

Maybe best Newcomer (nbanflguy imo), most influential (like changing your mind on a topic)? And I have no more ideas, ha sorry.

Maybe best Newcomer (nbanflguy imo), most influential (like changing your mind on a topic)? And I have no more ideas, ha sorry.

Best dressed? most bias? Hottest girlfriend?

Best dressed? most bias? Hottest girlfriend?

I’ve already got Best Newcomer and Hottest in the Office.

It’s hard to determine who has the hottest girlfriend. It also seems highly inappropriate to have Most Bias, after the fit I just threw.

I don’t even know how to decide who the most influencial would be, but Forum MVP and Smartest User are kind of the same area.

I’ve already got Best Newcomer and Hottest in the Office.

It’s hard to determine who has the hottest girlfriend. It also seems highly inappropriate to have Most Bias, after the fit I just threw.

I don’t even know how to decide who the most influencial would be, but Forum MVP and Smartest User are kind of the same area.

best avatar, best username, funniest avatar/username, best grammar, best word-play

best avatar, best username, funniest avatar/username, best grammar, best word-play

I was just tossing the 2 ideas that came to my head first out there.

I was just tossing the 2 ideas that came to my head first out there.

I like Best Username and Best Grammer.

Is 15 categories too many? I’ll either go with that or 12.

I like Best Username and Best Grammer.

Is 15 categories too many? I’ll either go with that or 12.

Darko approves.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Darko approves.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If  I don’t get most improved poster I’m leaving nbadraft.net forever. Just keep that in mind.

If  I don’t get most improved poster I’m leaving nbadraft.net forever. Just keep that in mind.

You get the peacemaker award. lol

I like you, one of my fav posters.

You get the peacemaker award. lol

I like you, one of my fav posters.

There is no Most Improved Award.

There are 13 categories.

There’s an open spot in the "Worst Troll" category.

And "Hottest in the Office", but with your screenname, I don’t think that’s appropriate.

There is no Most Improved Award.

There are 13 categories.

There’s an open spot in the "Worst Troll" category.

And "Hottest in the Office", but with your screenname, I don’t think that’s appropriate.

Send me a FB message if you do this and I don’t see it.

Send me a FB message if you do this and I don’t see it.

No problem.

I’ve got the nominees in.

Lemon, Im Your Father, thebobster and yupyup all have at least one nomination.

Good for you.

No problem.

I’ve got the nominees in.

Lemon, Im Your Father, thebobster and yupyup all have at least one nomination.

Good for you.

awesomeful.

awesomeful.

I don’t even know what one I would be in unless it’s an All net team, that would be the only one I could think of.

I don’t even know what one I would be in unless it’s an All net team, that would be the only one I could think of.

Im outie like a belly button.

peace guys, be safe.

Im outie like a belly button.

peace guys, be safe.

I won’t tell you which ones, but you are in two different categories.

Now, I’ve got a workout to get in before my homework. So I can’t be wasting anymore time here.

I won’t tell you which ones, but you are in two different categories.

Now, I’ve got a workout to get in before my homework. So I can’t be wasting anymore time here.

Rondo is better than both of them. They are locked down on D when he plays them as Westbrook who had his worst game against Rondo. He shuts them down gets by them and sets up teamates all day long. Glen Davis looks like an all star playing with Rondo. Everyone else goes to their spots and watches Rondo brake down D’s catch and shoot. Get out and run. He makes left handed passes that guys can’t make with their dominant hand. I am biased, but certain I am right. Best PG in the league is Rondo.

Rondo is better than both of them. They are locked down on D when he plays them as Westbrook who had his worst game against Rondo. He shuts them down gets by them and sets up teamates all day long. Glen Davis looks like an all star playing with Rondo. Everyone else goes to their spots and watches Rondo brake down D’s catch and shoot. Get out and run. He makes left handed passes that guys can’t make with their dominant hand. I am biased, but certain I am right. Best PG in the league is Rondo.