Williams vs Rose
Do people think that Rose will surpass Williams? If so, as early as next year like Mr. Knick suggests? Do you think that he will surpass Dwill and not CP3? CP3 and not Dwill?
Personally I don't think that Rose will ever be better. Williams has vastly superior vision and passing ability, which in my opinion is a pointguard's most important attribute. Williams also seems to be a much more versatile scorer, and unlike Rose, he has a deadly jumpshot from deep.
I certainly think it is possibly for Rose to surpass Williams and Paul. I'm not sure if he will but he will be a great pg nonetheless for a very long time. If it did happen I would say it would take another year or two at least though.
I don't think that he will ever pass Williams or Paul. Like you said, he doesn't possess the same passing abilities. In terms of scoring (if Rose has improved his jump shot as much as some people are saying) Rose is pretty close, but still not on their level.
We'll see how he does this season with Korver, Brewer and Boozer around him.
I see him surpassing Williams in 2 years. Mainly because of his ability to get to the rim at will and the fact that he has already proved that he is a big time playoff performer. Rose doesn't have the vision of Williams, but I expect Rose's assist to increase to about 7 apg this year.
Not sure about Paul, but I definetely see him surpassing Williams.
I forgot to mention that Rose has more defensive potential than either Williams or Paul (both above average defenders IMO). Right now he isn't very polished or tenacious, but he has the tools to become a better defender than either Paul or Williams.
As a side note, Williams absolutely annihilated Rose head-to-head last season. Just thought I would throw that out there.
The reason for this is that while Deron Williams and Chris Paul are both much better passers and have more of a complete game, Derrick is an athletic freak. His combination of strength and athleticism is unmatched at the position, he really is the LeBron James of PG's. He has played so well so soon into his career, I think better than both Paul and Williams did at the same point, and mind you they both had a little more college experience (not a lot, but just makes Rose that much more impressive). For as much as Derrick struggles with his mid range game, and has no where near the 3 point or even free throw percentages of Williams and Paul, he scores the basketball at a very efficient level. Simply put, I think he is becoming maybe the hardest PG to guard off the dribble in the league, and I also think he is a competitor who will not let up. So, factor these things in, I said he would be the best PG in the league by near this time, and he is close. While you cannot rank him ahead of Williams or Paul at this point, I certainly see it happening, possibly this year. One thing I think is for sure, is that I believe the Bulls will be far better than the Hornets or Jazz, which may not be all because of Rose, but it could maybe change some peoples minds about him never being at the level of WIlliams and Paul.
I believe Westbrook matches rose with the ability to get in the lane at will.
As far as dwill I don't think rose us that close. Williams is a great passer and tough as nails. He's also a much better shooter and a better scorer then rose. I think some people sleep on how good of a scorer he is. This guy just can't be checked one on one by anyone. If you back off him he will kill you with the J if u crowd him
he will cross you up and blow by you're or over power you to the hole
The Olympics helped both Paul and Williams establish themselves as elite. When u play with that level of talent u step your game up. The world championship team ain't the Olympic team, but this experience will raise Rose's game. I really think he is better than both Paul and Willaims at the same age. Thats how everyone compares Lebron to Jordan. In the end, killer instinct and success (playoff performance) will determine who's better. I like Rose's chances.
I know of Williams skill set as a scorer, but it is hard to say he is better than Rose, just look at the numbers. It is not just that Rose scores more, but at a better percentage. I think that Rose will just improve in that category come this year. He is not even close to the passer Williams is, and probably never will be, but as far as the tough as nails thing is concerned, I think he has that quality. I personally think Williams has been the best PG in the league for the last while, and while Chris Paul puts up more consistent numbers, it is hard to say you are better than someone when that particular someone beats you head to head every time (as Williams does to Paul). However, I think Rose combines qualities of both of their games, and while he is not as developed as either as a shooter, I think his play and ability were ahead of both players at similar points in their careers. He was a deserved All-Star, averaged over 20 per game and improved pretty much every aspect of his game, and only seems to be getting better. Westbrook has that ability to drive, but to say he is like Rose is just flat out not true. They are just not the same off of the dribble. Their is a reason Rose has gotten the ball at the end of Team USA's close games, because he is fantastic off of the dribble and creating for himself. He is getting better as a PG as well, I think his play on Team USA just highlights what a special player he is. But look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams at similar points in their careers, and they were just simply not scoring at the rate this guy has. Deron has never really needed too, but it took Chris Paul until his third year to get buckets like Rose. Deron Williams has an amazing skill set, and is very hard to defend with everything he can do, but for some reason, Derrick Rose seems to get more buckets at a higher percentage. Has to make you think about Williams being a better "scorer" than Derrick. We will get to see if Carlos Boozer has an effect on his scoring, but my guess is he will just score more and average more assists, at a higher efficiency. If he does this, than his being better than Williams and Paul will definitely be up for debate.
No he will never be on their level... he is not a true PG, does not have anywhere near the passing ability and court vision of williams and cp3. I see Rose in the mold of a marbury/francis type player.
Maybe Deron, but not Paul. Plus, I don't think he has the potential to be a better defender than Paul (who imo, if he stays healthy, can be the best defensive PG of all time)
bEtter percentage because he scores from layups. He does nothng better then dwill except jump. Dwill is easily the better scorer because he can hit the j or drive and he makes others better. So far rose can only make his self better and he's a bad defender. Defense is alsopart of being a better player
Only from lay-ups? How about his mid range game and his floaters? You can't hate on the guy because he can get to the rim at will and has a higher percentage...And also, Rose is better now than Williams was at the same stage (plus Williams had more seasoning in college).
Not hating on him. Just stating the fact that he's not better then dwill. No one knows about one day but today dwill is better. It's a two player race for best pg and rose is t the other guy. That's a FACT
Absolutely Quincey. D-Will is the better player. However, 2-3 years down the line could be different. I think Rose could be a 25 ppg and 7.5 apg type of guy and be a lock down defender. Aside from this, I still feel that Paul is the best pg in the league.
I'd argue that Deron Williams had the better second season. 16 and 9 as opposed to 20 and 6 and he took his team to the Western Conference finals.
What does being better at the same stage mean? Means nothing to be honest. I can name a couple pg who were better then rondo and dwill as rookies
Deron Williams shot 51% during his (injury free) third season in the NBA. Last season it dipped to 47%. Rose shot 49% from the floor last season.
I don't really believe that Rose is a much (if at all) more efficient scorer than Williams
Could be. But you can say that about many young pgs because it's all opinions because some say he can and others say he can't doesn't make either right or wrong. My opinion is nope
I tend to agree, I was simply pointing out that people have made the argument that Rose will be better because he is better at the same stage and I don't believe that's the case.
As I stated before I don't think Rose will ever be better, because he will never be able to control the game without scoring like Williams can.
I personally think Rose will be better and that you guess are underrating both Rose's vision and Boozer's impact, bur both questions will be answered as Boozer's low post dominance will be on display on Madison St. Again, I would be surprised if rosed didnt jump at least 2 assist per this season. I look forward to his continued development.
But make no mistake, if theyre both 100% healthy, Williams will be better for this year most definitely and next year 80% likely. After that though Rose may have caught up. And personally fell its not that he cant control the game without scoring. its just that the Bulls cant win without him scoring. The Boozer change is huge.
Rose is arguably the most athletic point to play the game, but is still is not a good shooter or a great passer. He may turn out to be a better player than Williams, but not a better point guard. A real point guard can dictate a game by controling the offense and creating opportunities for others. Williams is clearly a wiz with his court vision and passing ability. I think Rose will be great but i dont think he will every be a great passer. His assist should go up with cast he has around him, but doesnt mean he has become a better passer. Williams will go down as the better point guard. Rose has a chance he is still pretty young, but my money is against him becoming a better point guard than Williams.
I like Rose as a player but he needs to get his playmaking and defense better to pass Paul/Williams. I think Westbrook could challenge them before Rose and I am have originally supported Rose as better than Westbrook but lately, I may have to revisit that because Westbrook is improving at a faster rate than Rose and can already play defense
Rose will prolly surpass Williams when he reaches his prime... I can see Rose being a top 5 player by his 6 or 7 season... Its hard to predict what type of player Rose will be in his prime, but we already know what type of player Deron Williams is in his prime...
Until Rose can prove to be a true playmaker, he won't surpass Deron. Rose can score 25ppg next year, but if he doesn't provide the team with some solid playmaking, as in getting 8-10 assists, then his team isn't going to get better. Also, if Deron wanted to score over 20ppg he could, but he chooses to make plays for other first rather than score first. I've seen Deron get hot, and he can take the majority of the PGs in the nba to the hoop also, like Rose. Deron also has a deadlier jumpshot.
I think its been proven in the past you don't need a great playmaking pg to win a championship, I mean look at ppl like stockton and nash great playmakers 0 rings
That Williams is indeed the better PG right now, at least that is what I feel and what i have written. However, and this is usually what I feel happens, people go off on an entirely separate tangent and forget what the topic of this post was about. Will Rose eventually surpass Williams? Well, than, Rose being ahead of them at the same stage would not matter? Yes, I can name rookie PG's who were better than Rondo and Williams, true, but they probably had nowhere near the potential of both of those players. The bottom line is, who cares if Derrick Rose only shoots lay-ups as long as he is shooting damn near 50%? Money, if D-Rose shoots 51% this year, after D-Will struggled percentage wise his first few years in the league, would that not make Derrick Rose a more efficient scorer? For the scoring load the guy has taken, and his role on his team, mixed with his success, I just do not know how you can just discount all of this and say, "Well, he isn't better now, so it will never happen." Though it seems like it is more, "Well, he isn't better now, so, he just isn't, I'm right." You are right, he is not better now, but that is not what this post is about, so you can be a stubborn mule and keep going on about the same thing over and over again, or you can possibly make a prediction as to what will happen. I think the fact that Derrick Rose has shot so efficiently with the amount of points he has scored this early his career, is a sign that he could indeed be the best PG in the league down the line, better than Williams and Paul. I think it has a lot to do with him possibly being better than both of those players, because most rookies, and especially rookie PG's, seem to struggle percentage wise early in their career. Look at D-Will's first two years in the league. It was obvious he was going to be a great player, and in his second year he played out of his mind well in the play-offs, but during the regular season his shooting was well below that of Derrick Rose. Do you not see Rose's percentage improving now that he has a stronger supporting cast, not to mention Carlos Boozer to take away some pressure? I think these are all things you have to take into account. Deron Williams is better at every aspect of the game right now, other than flat out putting the ball in the basket. But, over time, I think Rose could be better. If you keep talking about Williams being better right now, than you are arguing with the wrong person. However, if you get back to the subject of the post, you know, reading and critically thinking, than you will know that what i am stating has everything to do with the future.
And when was the last time a great scoring PG has even been close? Moreover, when was the last time any single great player won a championship?
And when was the last time a
And when was the last time a great scoring PG has even been close? Moreover, when was the last time any single great player won a championship?
Umm Chauncey Billups? And since when did I say a player could win it by himself I said you dont necessarily need a playmaking pg to win a chip
i think he can surpass paul and williams in 2 to 3 yrs, and as far as being a better scorer both paul and williams shoot way more FT then rose and he still shoots a better percentage while avg more ppg rose shot 331 FTs to williams 420 and there FT percentages werent that far apart and this yr i think he will have the respect of the Refs and will shoot 2 to 3 more which can add to his scoring, and i think people underrate his play making ability and in his 2 yr stint in the league he has never played with the same type talent williams and paul played with and with this team i really think if not this year next year when they are truly comfortable with one another you will see his apg rise from 6 to more like 8 or 9 a game. He posses that clutch gene and he also posses that playoff performer gene and you combine those with his scoring ability and athletic dominance over opposing players i think he will be more successful then both
if u ask me i cant compare they all bring different things to the game Rose is the most athletic and has sg scoring abilities deron williams is a pure playmaker with a shot and chris paul has leadership and chemistry to go along with a double double.
he only shoots layups do you watch him play, he has a great floater and he has a respectful pullup jumpshot.. and his on ball defense is not bad at all why do you think its terrible its not the best but it is good
first of all look at rose history i been watchin dis man play since 8th grade and he damn near was the same size now he was then and he was dunkin im talkin bout boomin dat &$#%#&@! puttin it down when he was in high school he was on an nba level then his junior year when he put his stamp on the united center he won two state titles as well d will didnt do that and lead his team to the final four and as all collge hoops fans know was only a freethrow away from winnin it all yeah dats rite two state high school titles and a college title d will was a junior when iliini went to the final four yeah he has the expreince ova rose cuz hes been in da leauge since 05 d rose was a second year high school player then dats da only reason u can argue he better but he not he not as athletic as rose he cant bring da ball from one end of da floor to next like rose can da only advantage would probably be his shootin instincts plus it takes a while for u to develop a nba three point sho tlook at jordan and lebron early in their career thay didnt have one rose can shoot perimter shots lights out i know i went to the united center n seen it for myself he takes a lot of juperms and make a lot if u havent noticed but was d will the number one pick no was he only twenty when he lead his team to da playoffs and put the fire on bostn ass no was he rookie of the year no was he a secondd year allstar and the first since jordan for his team no so yeah rose is better and when its all said n done he will go down n history as the best pg ever watch he knows how to eleate his game to be a champion d will will never win a ring unless he go to miamai la or go form his own big three with d howard and carmelo rose will get one before he twnty five miami ass better watch out cuz if luol can make lebron play him n ronnie brewer can elavate his game to a stopper n put wade ass on lock who gon stick dat boi rose and noah huh watch out cuz chicago gon sneak one teamas is pissed off at miami dey gon play physical with thaey ass watch one of dem gon get knocked on dey ass u seen how mr howard did rose when he was makin dem look bad i wanna c what he got to say bout dat bi three shit he gon knock one of dem on dey ass da most physical player in da game and as far as cp3 he dont have more heart than rose or he not quickeer he not even better than d will da best point is steve nashsty cuz he caan average 40 cuz of his killer jumpshot until he waredown rose got the crown with curry probably knockin on da door reminds me a lot of nash so there u have it nash rose williams cp3= dont let stat fool u rose does it in a tuffer situatuion rondo= hes becomin a pest sy point guard da game hasnt seen in a while like sctockton although i think hell never be better than rose he wont be far behind him great young talent curry= watch out he got a killer j dat boi is uniqe and maybe jennnins of he becomes a playmaker russel westbrook aas well evans will develop into a two guard like wade did so hes not in da discussin wall is overated 2 me arenas,parker,anddavis is worn down
He will join the arguement but anyone who understands basketball will look beyong his highlight reel plays and understand Williams and Paul are the better PG's.
DRose isn't even better than Rondo at this point, how are you clowns comparing him to DWill or CP3??
Rose is a freak athlete and has all of the physical tools to be a great scorer, but he lacks the elite vision and passing ability to be a great playmaker.
He shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Williams and Paul as of right now... That's just my opinion.
I think Rose is more Tony Parker than Williams or Paul. A great scoring point guard, but not a complete one.
Go to 82games.com to see his true shooting percentage. See what he shoots the most. All his floaters don't go in. The more I see Westbrook dunk in half court setting the more I'm leaning towards him being more explosive and showing it. Also rose isn't even better then rondo right now
OK... I don't think Rose is on the same level as Paul or Williams, however...
I don't think Westbrook is more explosive than Rose... He just attempts dunks more. He doesn't finish as well as Rose as the rim, especially when there's contact.
And in regards to Rondo... Rose is the better scorer, while Rondo is the better playmaker, rebounder and defender.
I used to think rose was the better scorer untill rondo showed he could score when pp got hurt. I'll have to go check that website to see if rose does have a higher percenntage at finishing at the rim
Rondo can score, but it's clear he's not on Rose's level as a scorer or closer.
On the other hand... Rose isn't on Rondo's level as a defender and playmaker.
Neither player is a complete guard, but I'd take Rose simply because he can put the ball in the basket and isn't a liability shooting the ball or from the line. He isn't the playmaker or defender that Rondo is, but it's not like he's a liability in any of those areas.
U. Gun to my head I'd prob say rose and take him
because of rondos ft shooting. Rondo is more of a pg then rose though. He just has that ability to get people the ball in the right spot
Thats a really tough one. I dont see Drose ever being a 11/12 assist per game kinda guy. But he still has so much untapped upside so its possble that he becomes a bigger star than those guys, but not a better pure point guard. It could come down to a matter of just being different rather than better or worse. The big thing is I see Williams and Paul bein great well into there thirties barring injury, whereas Rose could fall off dramatically once his athleticism starts declining