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Why shouldn't Derrick Rose be MVP?

DanEboy
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Let's compare... Rose-

Let's compare...

Rose- 25.2Pts 4.2reb 7.9ast 3.5to 1.1stl 0.6blk 44%FG 1.6 3's 34% 86%FT

Bron- 26.6pts 7.5reb 7.0ast 3.5to 1.5stl 0.6blk 51%FG 1.2 3's 33% 76%FT

All except reb and FG% are very similar, if not leaning in Rose's favor. Bron is 5 inches taller which obviously allows him to get more rebounds and attack the rim easier to get high percentage buckets.

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Urbanovereverything

you are silly and whoever gave you those plus points are silly as well....

You do realize Rose play's in the East and in the WEAKEST division in the East at that(Chicago,Indiana,Detroit,Chicago,Milwaukee)

While Westbrook plays in the West and in a strong Division that has 3 playoff teams right now as we speak

So yall can kill it with the records noise

BKKnicksfan
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Let's not forget the fact

Let's not forget the fact James switched teams and had to make a transition.....

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BKKnicks- So if MJ went

BKKnicks- So if MJ went 18-38, scored 48 points, and Patrick Ewing went 12-18, had 29 points, and the Bulls won, Ewing had the better game because his shooting percentage is better, right?

Its a joke. %%%%'s are the only thing Rose has against him. Which is what happens when you are being double teamed the entire game, are the only player that can create his own shot on his team, and doubles as playmaker and scorer, ANDDDD guards the toher team's primary ballhandler. Its not easy to shoot a high percentage.

Although, its not like Lebron's situation is different, its not like he plays with a mega star that forces the other team to not double LBJ, or plays with one of the top 3 players at creating there own shot in the entire league, or a 20-10 big man, or anything like that....

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you are silly and whoever

you are silly and whoever gave you those plus points are silly as well....

You do realize Rose play's in the East and in the WEAKEST division in the East at that(Chicago,Indiana,Detroit,Chicago,Milwaukee)

While Westbrook plays in the West and in a strong Division that has 3 playoff teams right now as we speak

So yall can kill it with the records noise

---------------

Look up the Bulls record vs the Western Conference, and the Bulls record vs +.500 teams, and then see how "silly" your argument truly is.

DanEboy
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The Bulls are 22-7 (.759)

The Bulls are 22-7 (.759) against the western conference. The Thunder are 28-19 (.596)

sorry youngdave, that argument is weaksauce.

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Let's not forget the fact

Let's not forget the fact James switched teams and had to make a transition.....

----------------

Its Rose's fault Lebron punkd out on Cleveland and went to Miami? LBJ should get the benefit of the doubt for fleeing to play with a team he thought could win "eight titles"????

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BKKnicks- So if MJ went

BKKnicks- So if MJ went 18-38, scored 48 points, and Patrick Ewing went 12-18, had 29 points, and the Bulls won, Ewing had the better game because his shooting percentage is better, right?

Who said that?

Although, its not like Lebron's situation is different, its not like he plays with a mega star that forces the other team to not double LBJ, or plays with one of the top 3 players at creating there own shot in the entire league, or a 20-10 big man, or anything like that....

Not like Wade AND James need the ball in thier hands to be truly effective, yet LeBron still maintained his numbers. Nah not at all.

Ghost01
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He maintained his numbers?

He maintained his numbers? Really? Look at PPG, APG, RPG, and W-L from last year and show any of that was "maintained". And explain how playing with D Wade is harder than playing with the losers on Cleveland.

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Noone said it was Rose's

Noone said it was Rose's fault so what are you talking about?

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The Bulls are 56-20 playing

The Bulls are 56-20 playing in the weakest division in the EAST while the Thunder are 50-26 playing in the West....do you honestly believe the Bulls would have that good of record playing in the West? No they wouldn't and you know it, they would be a playoff team but they would not be the #1 team in the West.

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He maintained his numbers?

He maintained his numbers? Really? Look at PPG, APG, RPG, and W-L from last year and show any of that was "maintained". And explain how playing with D Wade is harder than playing with the losers on Cleveland.

He fell 5 points playing with Bosh and Wade. The Heat had no bench or any legit post players. So what are you talking about?

Like I said before, 3 players, 2 who thrived with the ball in thier hands. It was a transitation.

Like I said, you be hating man.

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Noone said it was Rose's

Noone said it was Rose's fault so what are you talking about?

---------------

So how is it relevent? If Rose has a better year than lebron, it shouldnt matter Lebron switched teams. That was by choice. Its what has Rose and lebron done this year. It has nothing to do with making a transition. if that hurt Lebron's stats then he shouldnt have done it.

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The Bulls are 56-20 playing

The Bulls are 56-20 playing in the weakest division in the EAST

That's a great point. Didn't even think of it.

Ghost01
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transition= not relevent to

transition= not relevent to MVP race. This is most valuable player. not most valuable transiton.

BKKnicksfan
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So how is it relevent? If

So how is it relevent? If Rose has a better year than lebron, it shouldnt matter Lebron switched teams. That was by choice. Its what has Rose and lebron done this year. It has nothing to do with making a transition. if that hurt Lebron's stats then he shouldnt have done it.

No, but when focusing on each MVP candidate, you have to take everything in for each player. For LeBron, I factor in him going to Miami and making a transition and that's a extra point for him from me when I'm looking at a MVP.

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youngdave.....you are making

youngdave.....you are making yourself look silier by the comment. Again, the Bulls are 22-7 against the west while the Thunder are 28-19.

They have beat up the west this year.

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That's a great point. Didn't

That's a great point. Didn't even think of it.

They are 27-7 Vs the West and 22-12 vs +.500 teams. So no, its actually a horrible point.

FastAndFurious
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LOL yall are so funny only 8

LOL yall are so funny only 8 of those 22 wins are against teams that are going to the playoffs like I said kill it seriously he's stacked up those wins against clippers,kings,rockets,utah,golden state, so like I said kill it

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No, but when focusing on each

No, but when focusing on each MVP candidate, you have to take everything in for each player. For LeBron, I factor in him going to Miami and making a transition and that's a extra point for him from me when I'm looking at a MVP.

------------

Welll then you are just stupid. How about the way Rose has changed his game? How bout the fact Noah has played in half there games, and outside Deng and Gibson, the rest of his team including his coach is new?

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LOL yall are so funny only 8

LOL yall are so funny only 8 of those 22 wins are against teams that are going to the playoffs like I said kill it seriously he's stacked up those wins against clippers,kings,rockets,utah,golden state, so like I said kill it

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You are funny for bringing a player whose the 2nd best player on a 4 seed into an MVP argument.

Vivid5292
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@Youngdave

You make a good point about Westbrook, but if you honestly want to compare Rose to Westbrook then you're gonna have to consider their situations. Some said switch Rose with Westbrook and you're looking at Rose & Durant contending for 5 future title. Thats a great look at the situation.

Rose's numbers come as a result of his very own production. He creates his own shots & most of his own opportunities. I'm not saying that Westbrook doesn't, but its questionable since he has one of the best scorers of the league as his running mate. Rose has Keith Bogans, Ronnie Brewer & Kyle Korver. You make the comparison. Come on, its really easy..

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Welll then you are just

Welll then you are just stupid. How about the way Rose has changed his game? How bout the fact Noah has played in half there games, and outside Deng and Gibson, the rest of his team including his coach is new?

This is why noone respects your basketball opinion. I never saw anyone agree with you....once.

Anyway, I never said Rose didn't do things to get points in my MVP voting either. New teammates are different then going to a new city. Rose was still the focal point of the offense, there were games were LeBron wasn't the guy in the game for Miami. But you don't see that, because you hate LeBron.

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Bulls against the top 8 teams

Bulls against the top 8 teams in the west-11-5

Thunder against the top 8 teams in the west-9-13

Go home youngdave.

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Dwight Howard should be MVP.

Dwight Howard should be MVP. And to me it isnt really close. 1, from a statistical standpoint he ranks in the top 3 in blocks, field goal percentage, and rebounds. He is by far teh most disruptive defensive player in the league. His midrange game, footwork, and low post comfort level as a whole has hit an all time high. He carries quite possible the worst front court in the NBA if he wasnt on it. Really, if Howard wasn't on the Magic, the Magic would be the Knicks last year... He's maintained, even improved, with roster turnover, injuries, and unbalanced officiating. And yet and still they are still a three to make the Finals every year, because of this man. And its not like Rose is our scoring him by a wide margin. Its two points. The Bulls are deeper and stronger at every position except center, so its not like the Bulls are a one man team. Howard is teh only reason the Magic are in the playoff, and championship hunt every year, and this is by far his best year. No one is more valuable to his team than Dwight. IN MY OPINION.

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I don't even see why you guys

I don't even see why you guys argue about it. No one will win. You might as well leave the stats out against Rose because stats don't tell the whole story or you haven't seen him play if you do, but feel free to bring them if it helps your argument for him. Rose will win the MVP. What is even the criteria to win the MVP anyway? Does anyone have a clue?

llperez
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i just want to say if rose

i just want to say if rose does win congrats to him. I dont have anything against him and i do think its very close. My problem isnt so much with him winning as it is with how the award is always decided way topo early by the media and the media allows the story and the underdog guy to get an advantage. This has always been the case.

Another example is jason kidd. In 2002 he finished a very close 2nd in mvp voting behind a prime tim duncan becasue he tunred the lowly nets franchise around and eventually helped them, win the east. The very next season his points incresed by 4ppg his fg% increased and he had a higher per and played a flat out better season and still led the nets to win the east. Final result was finishing 9th in mvp voting and barely even making the top 10 at all behind guys like ben wallace. Only difference from one season to the next was the story wasnt as good. WHy isnt durnat getting the same mvp love he got last season? Becasue the story isnt as good. Why did nash win in 2005 when he had at least 3 seasons that were better both in dallas and phoenix where he didnt win mvp? Becasue that year he turned the suns around and it made a great story.

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There is no criteria for

There is no criteria for MVP... thats the problem.

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I don't have a problem with

I don't have a problem with Rose either. It's just that people are really gung-ho about the guy... He's having a breakout year and great story, but there are guys who've been doing what he's doing for years and more, and they don't get the same backing.

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Absolutely Roid... I was as

Absolutely Roid... I was as big a Rose supporter as anyone, but looking objectively, this race isnt as one sided as some people make it out to be.

llperez
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i was just checking through

i was just checking through the history of mvp voting, and in 2006 the year kobe averaged 35.5ppg and was first team defense and carried the sorry lakers to 45 wins, he finished 4th despite hav ing the second most 1st place votes. of the 125 media memebers who had a vote, 23 did not vote for kobe at all in their top 5. &$#%#&@! ridiculous.

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Hale
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I can't see anyone but Rose,

I can't see anyone but Rose, LeBron and Dwight getting much consideration. Maybe Chris Paul or Dirk I guess.

Michael.S.
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I think Rose is the MVP by a

I think Rose is the MVP by a little bit but....

Daneboy

"LeBron is the most gifted player in the league...maybe ever. How come I hardly see him taking over games down the stretch? Wade usually has to. LeBron doesn't seem like much of a leader to me. And also, how come you hardly ever, if ever, hear LeBron's or Kobe's teammates talking highly of them?

I would be willing to bet if you switched Rose with either LeBron or Kobe on the Bulls, they wouldn't have the record they do. They may be better players..right now...but I don't think they command the respect from their teammates that Rose already does. The Bulls seem to play with another kind of energy this season and it is a direct reflection of Rose."

You have got to be kidding me with this stuff.

Michael.S.
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But, come on guys...Does MVP

But, come on guys...Does MVP really matter? Lets see who Finals MVP is.

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^

Mike Bibby

DanEboy
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Again, Lemon, you are the

Again, Lemon, you are the biggest Bron fan on here so I take your comments with a grain of salt as I am sure most people take mine about Rose.

I will say this though, this city hasn't been as excited about basketball since MJ left. That isn't really saying much but he has this city jumping again.

llperez
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you mean the city wasnt

you mean the city wasnt jumping about the eddy curry /jamal crawford era?

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I support LeBron alot too,

I support LeBron alot too, but I'm probably one of the main people who think highly of Rose. I stated 3 weeks into the season, he was one of my top 5 players in the entire league.

Even though I was making the case for LeBron, I still expect Rose to win it, and honestly, he's played well and if he won it, I wouldn't be mad.

omphalos
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First up, I'll say that Rose

First up, I'll say that Rose is my candidate for MVP, but that's not really why I'm posting.

Just wanted to draw attention to a pet peeve of mine; when people use similar seasons from the same player as examples of why the story matters. For example, people saying Nash had better seasons that the ones where he won. But the whole point is, even if he performed best outside of the years he won, it was only in those two years that he outperformed the others. You can't look at a player's season and only compare it to his other seasons, you need to consider the context. It's not just the story, it's the circumstances of that particular season.

The only exception to this is Kobe Bryant, who clearly should have won in 2006, but was punished for off-court shenanigans.

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oomphalos, then how do you

oomphalos, then how do you explain the other example i used where json kidd almost beat a prime duncan, then had most his stats improve the next year and he finished 9th? You think him playing better he drops from best in the league in many peoples eyes to barely top 10 was all about other players improving?

omphalos
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Dude, that's exactly what I'm

Dude, that's exactly what I'm talking about, maybe the year he almost beat a prime Duncan he had the second best year, but everyone stepped up their game more than him the next year? Besides, Duncan won it the next year afterwards, and he had a career high in rebounds that year. You can't just say "he came close one year, got better, so should win it", because the relative contributions of the other team's players change. Kidd also lost another three games that year despite his personal increase, surely that should be a factor in his drop too? Also, where was the story with Duncan in his second MVP season? Sorry man, I don't mean to attack you personally, but I see it all the time and it frustrates me is all.

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i disagree. No offense, but

i disagree. No offense, but if you dont think stories/politics/favoritism plays a role in how the media covers and eventually votes for the mvp, we disagree completely. Rose might very well deserve the mvp this year, but if you just went by the media you would think guys like lebron and kobe are in roses dust. It happens on a regular basis. Shoot, i've seen darrell armstrong get votes for MVP. GO back and tell me the year the little 6 foot overachieving darrel armstrong was a top 5 player in the NBA?

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It doesn't matter if you're a

It doesn't matter if you're a top 5 player in the NBA. It matters about the type of season your having and how valuable you are to your team.

llperez
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ANd i dont feel voters

ANd i dont feel voters consistently vote for the most valuable guy who is having the best season which is what im saying. They allow other things to effect their voting.

Hale
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I don't disagree with that.

I don't disagree with that.

Michael.S.
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So LeBrons value went down

So LeBrons value went down from the last two seasons where he was MVP or Most Valuable Player?

Hale
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Is that referring to me?

Is that referring to me?

Michael.S.
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No, just in general. I don't

No, just in general.

I don't see how Rose is more valuable than LeBron and not even nearly as good but I do think he is having the best season...I just don't get the "value" part.

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Okay, I'll have a crack at

Okay, I'll have a crack at explaining why I think Lebron went down in value; in Cleveland, he helped the team be more than the sum of it's parts through leadership and forced accountability as franchise player, in Miami the Big 3 are at best equal to, but certainly not greater than the sum of their parts. Each one has a reduced role from their franchise player days, even if the numbers don't reveal this. Lebron in particular has changed from first option on offence to a facilitator and secondary scorer ala Pippen. Thus, his value is lessened because he's no longer getting those rebounds and assists while also being first option on offence. I'm not going to say definitively that this makes him less valuable than Rose, but in his current situation he is surely less valuable than he was in Cleveland.

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