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Why shouldn't Derrick Rose be MVP?

Vivid5292
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Why shouldn't Derrick Rose be MVP?

First & foremost, I'm tired of all these arguments against Derrick Rose for being the 2010-2011 MVP. Most of the counter arguments talk about "stats" and how that's the highest measure for judging whether or not you're the MVP. If that is the case, let me see any of you or any idiots like John Hollinger, make a case for Kevin Love to be the MVP. I DARE you. Anyways, it's true that Rose may not be better than some of the other canadaites statiscally, but it doesn't change the fact that the Chicago Bulls are first in the Eastern conference and could make a run for the best record in the league with him as their leader in only his 3rd year, adding that they have a great record when playing the other top teams in the league. It also doesn't change the fact that without Rose's stellar play, the Bulls would not be in position to be considered the NBA's best team.

However, I'm giving anybody who disagrees with Rose being the 2010-2011 MVP a chance to state why they don't think he should win or why somebody else should win. Give me/other basketball fans your BEST arguement. Don't come at this topic with weak points and/or without any supporting evidence because you will get shut down and proved otherwise.

Let the game begin.....


BKKnicksfan
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It depends on what you look

It depends on what you look at. I personally feel LeBron James should get more love, but I think Rose will win it.

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He's my vote

He's my vote. I've been convinced of him being the MVP for a long time. Much better candidate then Dwade, Lebron, Dirk, Timmy D., Blake Griffen (debatable but its been awhile since a rookie wins the MVP, I think the last one was Timmy D.), Kobe, STAT, or the worst MVP candidate, Melo.

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^What? Wait, what? OP, I

^What?

Wait, what?

OP, I agree with you. Though the case for Dwight Howard as MVP is pretty strong as well, I gotta give my vote for the hometown kid, especially if the Bulls end up staying at #1 in the East.

llperez
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i would put rose 3rd behind

i would put rose 3rd behind kobe and lebron. I just think those guys are better players.

DanEboy
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They are better

They are better players.....but Rose is out playing them this season.

BKKnicksfan
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But how is he out playing

But how is he out playing them? That's my question. I personally wrote yesterday Kobe is RUNNING back into the mix for the MVP.

LeBron is still putting up the best numbers of the three, and he had to make a huge adjustment this offseason going to Miami.

My personal vote is

  • James
  • Bryant
  • Rose
  • Howard

But Derrick Rose has been the story of the season, thus he will win it.

Vivid5292
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@BKKnicksfan

I clearly asked for ppl to come into this with an actual arguement and you do the exact opposite. You said "you feel like Lebron should win". Come on now...what is that? That's weak. & then you have the nerve to say that Lebron had to make a huge adjustment? Get outta here with that mess. The man came into the season knowing that he would be playing with one of the top 5 players in the league. & then a good player in Bosh. What kind of "huge" adjustment is that. If anything, he's playing the same way he did last year. But, his job is much more easier seeing as those he has 2 reliable players that can finish & take the load off of him. I agree that nobody is "out playing" anybody but to only say that he is putting up the best numbers which is why he is MVP? That's wack. His impact isn't the same for this Heat team. If anything, this Heat team is underachieving. Come on now. Don't come onto this thread if you gonna post some weak mess like that. Make an actual arguement or take a seat and stay out.

llperez
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i dont think rose is out

i dont think rose is out playing them. The only category rose has an advantage is assists. Lebon and kobe are better defenders and having better seasons imo.

llperez
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rose is the best story of the

rose is the best story of the season and that tilts the award in his favor. Politics and media hype always play too big a role in mvp voting.

DanEboy
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Rose is finishing games in

Rose is finishing games in the 4th quater by himself... completely taking over games. He doesn't have guys like Wade, Bosh, Gasol and Odom to bail him out. Boozer helps some, but lately, Rose has been putting teams away.

You guys should watch him play more often. There is no way you guys can honestly say you have watched him over the past month and still disagree.

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how is lebron the mvp or even

how is lebron the mvp or even kobe???

llperez
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i was listenign to espn radio

i was listenign to espn radio a few days ago talking about the mvp race, and the guy was tearing rose apart. Not that i need a radio guy to tell me who the mvp is. BUt i wish i had some of the stats he brought up. One of the stats was comparing how the bulls do without rose on the court compared to how the heat, lakers and magic do without lebron, kobe and dwight and its not even close. The bulls lose very little and still outscore opponents per 100 possesions without rose on the court. The other 3 teams fall off considerably and more then double the negative scoring output per 100 possesions that the bulls lose without rose.

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But you said in your original

But you said in your original post that this is a post to state why you don't think Rose should win.

I think LeBron James has had a better season. For one, the numbers compared, LeBron has better number numbers. LeBron went from a team where he was the 1st and 2nd option, to a team where he played conventional and still had to make sure Wade and Bosh get the ball, being the best "point guard" on the team. I guess being 2nd in the East is underachiveing huh? He's still going with 26-7-7 with 1.5 steals on a team that had to change up everything WITH a weak bench. Say what you want, I think he's been the best player in the NBA this season.

The main reason why Rose is going to win MVP is because everyone fell in love with the story. Rose is great, I think he's a top 5 player in the NBA and wrote so in the past, but that Chicago team isn't as good as people think, he has talent in Boozer and Noah and it's funny how people act as if he's doing it all alone. He's not a great defender either, so being the "best" player is flawed. He had 30-10 last night, but Bayless had 26-8.

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Don't come onto this thread

Don't come onto this thread if you gonna post some weak mess like that. Make an actual arguement or take a seat and stay out.

My man, you got 21 posts. Calm down.

llperez
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vivid, you dont understand

vivid, you dont understand basketball if you dont think lebron had to make a huge adjustment by leanring to play witrh another ball dominant wing. GO back and check the cavs rosters the past 2 seasons and compare with the bulls rsoter this season and then compare the teams records and the stats between lebron and rose. Everything sides towards lebron if you do that, so bringing up how lebron has not had to make huge adjustments and his job is much easier is flawed.

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llperez

I agree, I still think it's Lebron he is on a team with the 2nd best shooting guard in the NBA who also is a top 5 player in the league and who wants the ball just as much as Lebron, and LBJ still puts up great numbers, not to mention Bosh is a top 3-5 PF and needs his touches as well too.

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This is a no win argument

This is a no win argument anyway. I am from Chicago, LL is a Laker fan and BKKnicks is a Knick fan and a LeBron fan. And yes, he has Boozer and Noah, although combined they have missed over 60 games. They aren't exactly Wade, Bosh, Gasol and Odom, all of whom have been relatively healthy.

And what exactly is this 'story' that everyone fell in love with?

The story about how he is the leader of the best team in the East? A conference where the Heat and Celtics were supposed to battle for the top spot?

The story of him averaging 25pts and 8ast? Something only like 4 other guys have done in the league...ever? And doing it at age 22 no less.

Or the story of how you can actually argue his case for the MIP award as well. His 3's went from 16 last year to well over 100 this season. His scoring went up by 5 points while his assists also went up by 2. His FT shooting went from 77% to 86% while his attempts have gone up by 2.5 per game. He has improved his steals from 57 last year to 84 this season and his blocks have gone from 27 last year to 45 so far. He has improved in every single category..but mostly his confidence has improved.

Vivid5292
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thank you, but...

I give credit to you DanEboy. You actually stuck to the point of the thread. You stated an actual arguement. Props to perez. You actually got into it & brought up some facts. I respect. BKknicks fan? I think you should stop. You talk about 21 posts? Boy you got damn never over 1000 of them & you're still in the negatives. You not seeing any points any time soon, so don't criticize me. I've been on this site for over 2 years now. It's people like you that made me even make an account, so I could knock some sense into your heads.

Its underachieving to come into the season showing off and boasting about how you formed a super team and having a petty parade about it, and then have that record. & its not even so much the record, but rather, the fact as to how they couldn't even beat some of the best teams in the league with exception to the Lakers. Thats underachieving. I don't care how many chemistry issues they had or have. There's no reason a team like that should lose to the cleveland cavaliers, under any circumstances. That's just one of example of how underachieving this team has been. If you need any more reasons, let me know "my man"

llperez
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you're right its a no win

you're right its a no win situation. But you have to admit rose compared to kobe and lebron is the best story from the media. Young humble kid turns team around or lebron with a an underachieving team(althoguh not lebrons fault) going for his 3rd straight or kobe playing with the most talented roster top to bottom but the team sleep walks half the season(not kobes fault) all fighting for recognition. Kobe and lebron are not doing anything they havent been doing for years, rose is having a breakout year and is the fresh new face. He drops 30 and its news. Kobe or lebron drop 30 and no one gives it much thought. Bulls, heat and lakers all very close in the standings, but if you just listened to the media you would think the lakers and heat were miles behind the bulls.

Oh well, rose will most likely win and kobe will have to settle for the mvp award given out in june.

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And another

And another thing....damnit!

LeBron is the most gifted player in the league...maybe ever. How come I hardly see him taking over games down the stretch? Wade usually has to. LeBron doesn't seem like much of a leader to me. And also, how come you hardly ever, if ever, hear LeBron's or Kobe's teammates talking highly of them?

I would be willing to bet if you switched Rose with either LeBron or Kobe on the Bulls, they wouldn't have the record they do. They may be better players..right now...but I don't think they command the respect from their teammates that Rose already does. The Bulls seem to play with another kind of energy this season and it is a direct reflection of Rose.

More than just stats guys.

Have at it.

llperez
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wait, kobe and lebron dont

wait, kobe and lebron dont get praise from teamates? Now i know you are just making that one up from no where. I live and so cal and kobe gets love non stop from his teammates.

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I never hear it anywhere.

I never hear it anywhere. Could be on local news, but I never hear it much in the national media. Just my opinion and what I hear.

llperez
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"i never hear it in the

"i never hear it in the national media"

exactly

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My opinion: The story of the

My opinion: The story of the Chicago born boy, leading Chicago to a high eastern conference seed. Being the best of the young guns and taking point guards and eating them for lunch. Single handedly bringing Chicago back in games ( early season Detroit) and proving himself against veterans ( friday night Los Angeles game). The fact he (along with the city) was shun by LeBron and Wade to form a super team in Miami, settling for Boozer and Rose making the leap from a nice, very nice young player to (what I believe) is a top 5 player in the league.

That's the story for me.

Let's not forget everyone overrating the fact they were a good team last year. They were actually a good team, pretty good last year.

Just my opinion: LeBron should be MVP

DanEboy
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Yeah, they won 41 games and

Yeah, they won 41 games and were the 8th seed. Now they are the #1 seed and on pace for 60 wins... one year later.

They are miles ahead of last season.

Miami, by the way, was a 5th seed and won 47 games.

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Also, that story you wrote

Also, that story you wrote sounds like an MVP. You also forgot how the Bulls swept the Heat 3-0 this season.

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Dwight Howard

He may not have the ball in his hands as much or score like Rose or make as good a story or be on as good a tema, but he means more to his team than Derrick Rose. Rose is no better than an average defender, but the Bulls are the best defensive team in the league. That is why they are so great. The Bulls are a slightly above average offensive team. Without Rose, they would be a very poor offensive team, but their defense would still be the best in the league and they still could have a shot at the playoffs.

The Magic may not even have a single average or above average defender besides Howard, but they are the 4th best defensive team in the league. Howard is also extremely important to the Magic, as he is their only good post scorer, offensive rebounder, or pick and roll threat. Without him, they wouldn't be able to get as many open threes. The Magic may be the second worst team in the league if they lost Howard.

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DanEboy

So if thats the case, should Russell Westbrook be in contention for MVP as well?

His numbers have inflated big time as well him and rose actually have the same stats.

Derrick Rose:

25.1 PPG

4.2 RPG

7.9 APG

1.1 SPG

44% FG

85% FT

33% 3PT

3.4 TO's

37.5 MPG

Russell Westbrook:

21.8 PPG

4.6 RPG

8.3 APG

1.8 SPG

44% FG

83 % FT

33% 3

3.9 TO's

34.9 MPG

Also with Westbrooks points per game going up 5 as well......

I understand Rose is more valuable to his team and he gets to prove it on a nightly basis, but when Durant ha sat out some games Westbrook showed he can def play and lead a team to wins on his own, like when he tore the celtics up for 31, 5 and 4 with the win.

I'm not saying Westbrook should MVP in any means even tho he is my favorite player in the NBA, but Westbrook is basically having the same season Rose is having, but gets overshawdowed becasue he plays with Durant.

Let's not forget Boozer is an All-Star caliber player and will be again once he is healthy, and I think Joakim will be making an apperance shortly. I just dont like how the media and people on this board make it seem like Rose is the clear cut winner, when in all actuality Dwight Howard affects the game more than ANYONE in the NBA for the simple fact he DOMINATES both ends of the floor and he might not even finish top 3 for the voting....Rose,Lebron,Kobe

I honestly think Lebron is still the MVP of the NBA and should win it, but that's another story.

DanEboy
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The Bulls would be &$#%#&@!

The Bulls would be &$#%#&@! without Rose....if you think otherwise, you are ridiculous.

BKKnicksfan
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Yeah, they won 41 games and

Yeah, they won 41 games and were the 8th seed. Now they are the #1 seed and on pace for 60 wins... one year later.

You're forgetting the part where they gave up Salmons AND Thomas for nothing thinking they were getting LeBron James. Ironic as well because both Milwaukee and Charlotte jumped over Chicago for the 6th and 7th spots.

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Before the trade deadline and

Before the trade deadline and giving those two away the Bulls were not in a better position. . .

DanEboy
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Westbrook has Durant to take

Westbrook has Durant to take some of the pressure off. Rose is the main guy. I am not saying Westbrook can't be that guy, but Rose is right now.

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Yeah well, what does that

Yeah well, what does that have to do with anything? Salmons is proving this season that he isn't that good. And Tyrus Thomas is a cancer.I don't understand your argument there.

BKKnicksfan
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BKknicks fan? I think you

BKknicks fan? I think you should stop.

- I think I'm going to continue.

You talk about 21 posts? Boy you got damn never over 1000 of them & you're still in the negatives.

- I guess, because noone with negative points are smart huh?

You not seeing any points any time soon, so don't criticize me. I've been on this site for over 2 years now. It's people like you that made me even make an account, so I could knock some sense into your heads.

- If you been on the site 2 years now....where you been? Says your account was made Feb 2011.

Its underachieving to come into the season showing off and boasting about how you formed a super team and having a petty parade about it, and then have that record. & its not even so much the record, but rather, the fact as to how they couldn't even beat some of the best teams in the league with exception to the Lakers. Thats underachieving. I don't care how many chemistry issues they had or have. There's no reason a team like that should lose to the cleveland cavaliers, under any circumstances. That's just one of example of how underachieving this team has been. If you need any more reasons, let me know "my man"

  • - So any team that boasts and wins 50 is underachiving? Oh, my bad. Didn't know that.
  • -So any team that finishes 2nd in the conference is underachiving? Oh my bad, didn't know that
  • - So any team that finishes 2nd with 50 wins without a point guard, a strong lost post player OR bench is underachiving? Oh my bad didn't know

Come on man. I come with a idea, you try to attack me. Then ppl wonder why I play the jerk, because people like this guy.

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Im going to look at this the

Im going to look at this the opposite way...why these other guys are not Derrick Rose.

1. Kobe. Heres the difference. The Lakers were the No.1 team a year ago, they played the first half of the season in mediocrity by the standards of good teams. They have been a force since the break, but give me a full season. Thats what D Rose has done. Kobe was not killing fools in December. He was getting blown out by the Heatles on Christmas in his house. Also, arguing a player whose team was overwealmingly expected to be the No.1 team in the west and is actually No.2, compound it with the fact he plays with a legit all star and 2 other players that people feel are one of a kind time difference makers, and he doesnt stand a chance.

2. Lebron. Foolish, really. The fact the Heat are below the Bulls in the standings and are 0-3 vs the Bulls is reason enough to disqualify Lebron. The Heat were the No.5 seed last year, added Lebron and Bosh and are now No.2. The Bulls were the 8 seed, added Boozer and 3 bad shooting guards and are the No.1 The difference? Rose has taken his game to another level while Lebron has actually been worse than he was a year ago. One year ago, if you said LBJ and Wade were going to be on the same team, and D Rose was going to lead his team to a better record than their team, theres no way you would have argued for LBJ the way you are now.

3. Dwight Howard. I understand his value to his team which is about equal to Rose's. I understand hes a premier defender, and Rose is not. However, Orlando is another team that has actually gone down from last season. I dont see how a team gets worse, lowers its seed, and no real experts are even considering them a contender, and the guy get the MVP. But beyond that, Bill Simmons brought up the most important point. Howard is a stat stuffer who loves to block shots out of bounds for stats and do anything to look good on paper. Rose cares about 1 thing. Winning. And most experts have seen this, and have understood why Rose is the clear cut front runner. His stats are irrelevant, because hes playing to win, not for stats. And more importantly, Howard is an absolute non factor in crunch time. While Rose has time and time again lead the Bulls in the final 2 minutes, Howard defers to mediocrity such as Hedu Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson for primetime shots.

The other point Simmons makes, and sums it up is that Rose shouldnt be rememberd as "The guy whose MVP candidacy got crapped on by the entire blogosphere because his plus/minus and true shooting percentage weren't quite good enough." This is true. Enjoy Rose's season. Dont let foolish stats that 10 years ago didnt exist tell you otherwise.

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Yeah well, what does that

Yeah well, what does that have to do with anything? Salmons is proving this season that he isn't that good. And Tyrus Thomas is a cancer.I don't understand your argument there.

My point is that team would have been a 6th seed, if they didn't decided to throw both those players away for a chance at 2 star players. Doing that, they struggled, thus everyone thinking they were a bad team. Salmons wasn't bad last season, nor was Thomas. Both showed they played well in contract years, but Chicago wanted Bron, so they moved them and struggled.

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It is underachieving when you

It is underachieving when you dance around the stage holding up 7 fingers like a bunch of jackasses.

BKKnicksfan
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The fact the Heat are below

The fact the Heat are below the Bulls in the standings and are 0-3 vs the Bulls is reason enough to disqualify Lebron.

On that note....I'm outta here.

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Y'all still hate LeBron huh?

Y'all still hate LeBron huh?

DanEboy
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When was Tyrus Thomas good?

When was Tyrus Thomas good? He had a couple of decent games but mostly was a guy who had no idea of spacing, took awful shots and just messed up the overall flow of games. They got rid of him because they were tired of his shi.t. It had nothing to do with Bron.

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@ B-ball fan

thank you for giving a case for Dwight. I agree with you on a lot of what you said, but much of you're arguement is contributing to that the fact that Dwight Howard should win the Defensive Player of the year award & not the MVP.

Yes, he has been better this year offensively and has been big for the Magic, but what's so different about what he's doing this year, compared to the past 2 years where he did the same thing defensively and the Magic had better teams and more success then? He is getting more touches offensively which explains his point increase and also the hard work he put in over the summer. But again, the stats aren't far off..

Look

Pts. 20.6 Rpg. 14.2 Blks 2.1 Stls. 0.9 Def Rating 99 - 2007-2008

Pts. 20.6 Rpg. 13.8 Blks 2.9 Stls. 1.0 Def Rating 95 - 2008-2009

Pts. 18.3 Rpg. 13.2 Blks 2.8 Stls. 0.9 Def Rating 95 - 2009-2010

Pts. 23.1 Rpg. 14.2 Blks 2.4 Stls. 1.3 Def Rating 94 - 2010-2011

Whats the difference??





















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My point is that team would

My point is that team would have been a 6th seed, if they didn't decided to throw both those players away for a chance at 2 star players. Doing that, they struggled, thus everyone thinking they were a bad team. Salmons wasn't bad last season, nor was Thomas. Both showed they played well in contract years, but Chicago wanted Bron, so they moved them and struggled.

-----------------

So If they were the 6 seed, that would have totally exposed D Rose this season as someone who did not improve his game at all.

You are the only person on this website with more negative points than me...and theres a reason why, you are an idiot. Lebron and Rose's stats are similar. Hence why team record and Head to head are just icing on Rose's cake for why hes been better than LBJ this year.

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Come again....bring ammo next

Come again....bring ammo next time.

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I understand where you coming

I understand where you coming from, but Rose has All-Star caliber players tho.

Westbrook is also in the West, but im not taking anything away from Rose, dude is a beast no question, I'm just saying Westbrook is having the same exact identical season as Rose and has shown when by himself he can do the exact same things as Rose, but doesn't get the same type of Love.

Like some people still say he isn't a top 5 PG.....like are you serious...Westbrook is top 3 PG's in the NBA whether you think it or not.

I truely believe he is 1B while Rose is 1A but that's just my opinion

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Rose 25 PPG, 8 APG Lebron

Rose 25 PPG, 8 APG

Lebron 26.5 PPG, 7.5 APG

Its not that different...hence why team record/not playing with Wade should count for sometihng.

BKKnicksfan
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You are the only person on

You are the only person on this website with more negative points than me...and theres a reason why, you are an idiot.

I mean, I guess so.

Ghost01
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youngdave- If Westbrook was

youngdave-

If Westbrook was having an identitcal season to Rose, then his team would be at least 56-20, not discounting the fact he plays with the best scorer in the league. If Rose and Durant were playing together, that team would be the odds on favorite to win the next 5 titles.

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You sure? Why not look it

You sure? Why not look it up.....

------------

I already posted them...before you could even come up with tihs foolish rebuttal.

FastAndFurious
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Woah?

How has Lebron gotten worst? Haha dude may be a jackass at times, but Lebron is the BEST player in the NBA, he may not win MVP but you ask anybody who they would start their franchise with I bet you it's Lebron.

BKKnicksfan
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LeBron James: 26.6, 7.5, 7.0,

LeBron James: 26.6, 7.5, 7.0, 1.5, 50%, 33%

Derrick Rose: 25.1, 4.2, 7.9, 1.1, 44%, 33%

So.....it's a lock that he's had a better season? Let's not even mention Miami is only 2 games back.












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