Why aren't more people talking about this?
At the end of this season, when the Mavs use the amensty clause on Brendan Haywood, they will have the cap space to pull a Miami Heat and sign the 2 biggest free agents on the market in Dwight Howard and Deron Williams. Deron Williams is from Dallas and would go there and Dwight has the hots to play with Deron. Imagine a line up of:
C: Dwight Howard
PF: Dirk Nowitzki
SF: Shawn Marion
SG: Vince Carter
PG: Deron WIlliams
Plus they still have Roddy Beaubois and Brandon Wright coming off the bench.
Because we all know this is the aim of cuban.... but howard is constantly changing his mind of where he wants to play and williams will decide after this (drama ...?) choice.
I think it will be easier after the trade deadline.... a little bit.
Regardless to what, D-Will will not make any moves until he see what Dwight does. If he finds Dwight's perferred destination feasable to his standards, he will join him. If not, perhaps he makes a deal with the Knicks to give them the PG they so drastically need. As much as I dislike the "Boston Celtic" formula that players have been following as of late, Dwight and D-Will possibly teaming up with an aging Dirk Nowitzki just seems accurate. The Mavs ammnesty Haywood, who is then easily replaced by Howard, they make the upgrade at PG with D-Will, considering Jason Kidd reitres soon to perhaps fullfill his dreams of coaching. Also, Dirk and Dwight's game can complement each other. With Dirk's scoring prowess and Dwight's defensive skill (as well as improved post game), they can do damage as a great frontcourt.
PG - Deron Williams
SG - Vince Carter
SF - Shawn Marion
PF- Dirk Nowitzki
C - Dwight Howard
PG - Jason Kidd/Roddy Buckets
SG - Jason Terry/Delonte West
SF - ???
PF - Brendan Wright
C - Ian Mahimi
Looks excellent on paper... Wouldn't you agree?
I'd put west as a starter and carter as a back up.... or even beaubois. This roster would be great but who knows what d12 could pick as a prime destination in 2 days, 3 days, 2 weeks, 4 months....?
He's going to end telling us he wants to play in milwaukee or charlotte.... finally.
If the Magic know Dwight is leaving for certain, they're going to trade him at the trade deadline. No way they let him walk, not to mention, exactly what young pieces can the Mavs offer to the Magic? You gotta remember, at the end of the day, it's the Orlando Magic who decide where Dwight Howard is going. Hell, they could even trade him to the Bobcats if they felt they could put together a better package.
It's crazy how Mark Cuban was the one guy that was whining about the Lakers' superteam, and yet he's trying to do the same thing in Dallas. How exactly would the Mavericks have enough room to sign both Howard and Williams?
Next year's salaries:
- Nowitzki - 21m
- Shawn Marion - 8.6m
- Beaubois - 2.2m
- Jones - 1.1m
That's about 33m in salary cap meaning they'll have 25m leftover to spend on Howard, Williams and Carter?
Not trying to sound like a jerk, but please explain how they'll be able to sign Howard, Williams and Carter.
^Exactly, Tol-23. To sign BOTH Howard and Williams, they need to mobe Marion's contract, which is very unlikely, but you never know. If they can even trade Marion for say a contract like Travis Outlaw, where they save a good 5-7 million, than this manuever would be concievable.
And if both Williams and Howard are really set on going to Dallas, I think that they'd split the 25 mill if the Mavs can't move Marion. And perhaps someone would be willing to take on Marion's contract if they get Beabois.
What about Grant Hill, and Josh Childress for Marion, Beabois, and Jones. Can't try it in the trade machine because Grant Hill is not allowed to be traded till March 1st. With this trade, the Suns get rid of Childress' contract, but however they now have Marion's atrocious contract, but I don't think it's as long as Ghildress'. Plus the Suns get Beabois who is showing a lot of promise and is rebounding after the foot injury he suffered last year.
The Salaries after that add up to 27.5 with Nowitzki and Childress. That gives you just over 30 mil to get Howard and Williams, sign Kidd for the minuimum, maybe Carter might sign for the minimum, but Terry won't sign for the minimum, so they may be a bit thin on depth, but that is one dangerous team nonetheless.
I don't think the Suns want Marion at all. Sure, they get Beaubois in that deal but with Aaron Brooks, aren't they almost the same type of player? Even with the 25m, I highly doubt Howard and Williams will split it, each making 4m less the first year and miss out on about 40mil over 6 years if they signed with a different team. That's a lot of money, I mean, sure DWade took about a 6-9m paycut but he's Dwyane Wade, he's got so many endorsements that 6-9m is just another dime in his pocket. And 40m is a lot to miss out on, especially for Deron Williams who isn't a highly marketable player at the moment.
I also don't think Kidd would play for the minimum of about 500k. He can easily get 1.5m - 2.5m on a team like the Lakers. Carter taking the minimum? You're talking about one of the most selfish players in the league. He's going to want atleast 5m-7m. Some crazy team will end up paying that too. They also miss out on Jason Terry so that leaves them with a roster like this
Nowitzki - Wright
Beaubois - (Maybe Terry, if he signs for the MLE)
Williams - Jones
with only the MLE to try to fill up the rest of the parts. Pretty much a poor man's Miami Heat.
Best case scenario, they sign Nazr Mohammed and Matt Barnes in the offseason. Still leaving them with a very depleted and old lineup.
^^^^Poor mans Heat?? What are you talking about?This teams actually compliments eachother...If they can beat he Heat with there main lineup of Kidd,Terry,Marion,Dirk,and Chandler you dont think they can beat them with Deron Williams,Beaubois,Marion,Dirk,and Dwight??
Hmm, let's see. Dirk and Bosh matchup very well. Marion cannot hold LeBron, especially at this age. Wade would have a picnic with Beaubois guarding him. Yes, Williams and Howard would cause huge match-up problems but what about when either of them is in foul trouble? What about when anybody on this team is in foul trouble. They beat the Heat last season because of their depth at every position. With that line-up, what are they going to do with a backup center? Is Jones going to seriously be their 6th man? Is Wright they're 3rd big man? Does Dirk play center when Dwight is in foul trouble?
Like I said, they beat the Heat last season because of depth, and now you're only going to have Jones and Wright as your best bench players? There's a huge difference. Unless Williams and Howard are playing 48mpg and averaging 2FPG, that bench HAS to play.
Yeah, the Suns wouldn't want Marion, but you get my point about moving Marion. Maybe they can flip Marion and Beabois for Kaman's expiring contract, lol.
I believe that the Veteran's minimum is 1.2 million, and I believe that Kidd would take it. Terry may sign for the MLE, and my bad on the Carter prediction, on second though he wouldn't sign for even the MLE.
But just the way this is set up, you have to give Cuban a lot of credit for putting the Mavs in a position like this, in a way that they will be very competitive Post-Nowitzki.
Let's review their line-up last season
Chander - Haywood - Mahinmi
Marion - Stojakovic - Brewer
Stevenson - Terry - Beaubois
Kidd - Barea
That's 12 quality players that they had on a nightly basis to match-up with the Heat. You go from 12 to 5, and maybe even 4 since Marion is another year older. That is a huge difference.
Yeah, Mark Cuban has a chance at signing both of these guys, but he's got to somehow pitch to them to miss out on 30mil each. That's a lot of money you're talking there. I completely forgot about the vet's min and Terry could take the MLE but what about back-up bigmen? You can't win when Brandon Wright is your backup center and power forward. They'll have to sign a quality backup small forward and a quality backup center and maybe even a quality backup power forward with only minimums.
And a year after that, they'll have to convice Dirk that he isn't worth max money for the next maybe three years, causing him to miss out on about 20-30m.
That's a lot of money, the Miami Heat Big 3 only missed out on about 10m altogether. Now Dwight, Williams, and Dirk have to miss out on anywhere from 60-90m combined. That's a lot of money.
Why do all the top players want to play with oneanother? I know everyone wants to win a championship but what's the point of winning it if you don't want to play anyone for it? There is absolutely no team loyalty anymore. A lot of great players reputations will be tarnished by not trying to beat everyone else and instead joining forces together (i.e. Lebron James... maybe even Chris Paul..). I'm not saying they won't be viewed as really good players of their time in the future. But they won't be legends, which they could be if they stayed with the teams that drafted them and put their teams on their back (Kobe anyone?).
To be honest, I don't think repuations will be tarnished if everyone starts doing it. When Miami made their Big3, yes their reputation seemed to be completely tarnished but since the Clippers got their superstars, Howard and Williams want to get together, Carmelo and Stoudemire made their All-Star duo. It is a regular thing in the league now. That's the reason why I don't think anybody's reputation will be tarnished. Everybody is doing it.
Not to mention, even Kobe wanted Chris Paul on his team, I don't think anything less of Kobe for wanting to have the best possible team. Sure, he won championships but he's still trying to win more, even if it meant teaming up with Howard and/or Paul.
^That is why I belive that instead of getting Howard and Williams, I think that they should instead move Marion somehow, and with that 30 million, sign Howard to the max, (16 mil) and use the rest of that 14 mil to build you're team around Howard and Nowitzki. I think Terry would take teh full MLE, they can sign him to that after they spend the 14 mill. I don't know who are the other marquee free agents next season, but maybe they could sign Nick Young to a 7 million contract, and spend the rest on a backup big. And if you can't then sign Lamar Odom to a cheap contract, assuming the market for him would be pretty weak. Then you have Kidd at the minimum, Terry at the MLE, Nowitzki, Howard, Young, Odom, and still have about 3 million left. This may be a bit out there, but I belive it can work. The only problem is that someone will offer Young 4 years 45 million, and that would be hard to pass up opposed to a 4 year 30 million dollar deal.
Yeah, I think they have a much better chance at going after Howard instead of both of them. It's more secure that he'll take it if he's getting his max money rather than gambling and possibly losing both Williams and Howard. They can also sign Wilson Chandler in the offseason to give them some depth at the SF position. Adding Terry and Kidd would help them but they would still need a starting PG after Kidd retires.
With the leftover money, they can go for a 2nd tier player like Eric Gordon or Raymond Felton instead. Not to mention, if they don't want Terry with the MLE, they can always go with Steve Nash.
The point is, Cuban and co. have gotten this team into prime rebuilding phase without losing competivness. With a combination of moves, they can go from old title contender to a young and promising title contender in only a year, which is very difficult to do in any sport.
What happened to players wanting to prove they're the best by beating the best?
Tongue out like 23
The argument "everyone else is doing it" hasn't been a legitimate argument since grade school...
The fact players aren't being loyal to their teams hurts the league as a whole. Anyone can see that. Why should fan's be loyal to teams if the teams can't even convince their own players to stay even when they're offered millions....
I'd consider not watching the NBA. Not kidding. It's already a league filled with super teams and shady ass reffing (u see the 1st half of the Sixers Heat game last night? 2002 WCF? 2006 Finals? etc etc etc). Deron Williams and Dwight Howard are now the only chances to keep the NBA relevant for everyone outside of LA, Chi, Miami, or OKC. If they sign with other teams (lets say Deron to Dallas and Dwight to Philly), then we can take that list up a notch to 6 teams. Better but not great. If Deron and Dwight both sign in in Dallas with Dirk, that team will be way too good and expand our current 4 team list to 5. Not good enough.
It's an exciting possibility, but you have to take into account the age of 3 of those starters.
Nowitzki is turning 34 this year. Same with Marion.
Vince Carter is already 35. Next year he'll be 36. Jason Terry will be turning 35 this year too, if we assume he's gonna stay with the Mavs.
In other words it won't be a dream team for the future, one that can go on and win... "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7..." championships (like the Heat).
This is not necessarily a bad thing. Nowitzki, Carter, Marion, Terry can be solid servicable players for several more years, time in which Mavs can start building around(more like adding more and more younger talent with the retirement of the veterans) the new wave of Deron and Dwight... Damn, the more I think about it the more I like it.
Dirk for Granger and George Hill... It works in the machine and makes makes Indiana a contender this year and allows for Dallas to have the cap room for DWill and D12. Larry Bird would love Dirk and it seems Granger is the unwanted piece in Indy. A big 3 of Granger, D12 and DWill makes a lot sense. A penetrating, all everything point guard, a sharp shooter and the most physically talented player besides Lebron to clean up. To me basketball skill set wise it would be the easiest to coach big 3. George Hill is from Indy and has the state tattooed on him and its rumored they will go hard for Eric Gordon, also from Indy this off season. I added Paul George to the Hornets and Gordon to the Pacers. This is pipe dream but why not. New Orleans gets a young SG with loads of potential for Gordon without injuries. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=843c8bu
Hornets: Paul George, Hansbourgh, Pacers 2012 first round pick
Pacers: Dirk Nowitzki, Gordon
Dallas: Granger, George Hill
Hansbrough could go to the hornets
I'm not trying to make an excuse for it. I'm all for players being on different teams. I mean, what was funner than watching the Cavs vs the Heat on Christmas day? I loved when each player had their own team but nowadays, it's the only way to win, it seems. Every team that is contending seem to have at least two all-stars.
The player that are on a team that couldn't draft the 2nd all-star, they wanted out to team up with another all-star. (i.e. LeBron, Paul, Howard) whereas players that are staying with their teams is because they're team drafted the all-star (Kobe Bryant/Andrew Bynum and Kevin Durant/Russell Westbrook).
Players are tired of waiting for their organization to construct a team around them so they take it into their own hands to make their team. Like I said, I'm not making an excuse for it, it is simply more excusable for players since everyone is doing it.
For decades, owners would tell players "It's a business." -- now the players are returning the favor, leaving a lot of owners salty. Like I said, I'm not making an excuse for it but since everyone is doing it, it is the only way to win. Can you imagine Chris Paul's Hornets last season trying to match-up with this years? Or trying to match-up against the Heat. What about trying to match-up with the Howard-Dirk-Williams Mavericks? It is impossible.
It is because every team is doing it, that it is now necessary for players to do it to win a championship.