I brought this up because they're both 2-guards that were drafted in the Top 10 in the same draft class. They both improved in their sophomore seasons, and I expect more improvement next season. But who do you guys think is better now? And who will be better in the future?
Harden is smarter on the offensive end, is a better 3-point shooter, a much defender, a better playmaker, and a better shooter. Basically DeRozan is only has a better mid range game and has the potential to be the better rebounder.
I really like DeRozan, but he must improve his defense. He played pretty terrible on that end last season. He has very poor lateral quickness, and his off-ball defense is bad. He also had one of the worst 3 point shooting %s of all time I think. I don't know if he can develop a 3 point shot in just one summer. Also his handles are really, really weak, and it limits his potential as a passer.
But I know that DeRozan will improve his game and come back better than ever next season. He's a gymrat and you can tell just b the progress he made from his 1st to 2nd season.
But the only advantage DeRozan has on Harden is athleticism. Harden is the much more complete player. I think that Harden is better now, and will be better in the future.
What do ou guys think.
I'd take Harden all day every day, I don't think DeRozen is anymore athletic than Harden. Harden is a very explosive player and you could really see that in the playoffs this year also on paper, In the combine Harden had a higher standing vert, was much stronger, faster and had a longer wingspan. DeRozen just had a higher max vert by an inch and a half. I think Harden was, as a rookie, is and will become the better player and an inch on his max vert doesn't make much of a case for DeRozen, IMO.
if your going get your ideas from realgm at least quote the source, what you did is called plagiarism homeboy. http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1116142
I say Harden right now, Harden is just a great player, plays like a veteran, i almost wrote he was a veteran, just kinda has that swagger to his game...when OKC picked him at #3 ahead of 'Reke, I was skeptical of the decision, but its making alot of sense now..
One thing I disagree with you is that you said Harden will be better in the future, I dont think so, Derozan has all the physical tools to be really good, if he really wants to be he can be a top SG in the league by next year..just needs a more consistent jumpshot and to play better defense, but he has to be willing to put in the work, especially in what could be a long offseason
I just want to clear one thing up from your article, DeRozan > Harden, defensively. Also James Harden isn't a freak like Demar athletically but he has good athleticism for a 2 guard. Overall it's tough to say I like them both a lot and they will both be good as long as they continue to improve.
I have to agree with you that Harden is the better player right now. He is very smart with the ball and he can shoot lights out. I think his defense right now is so so but he has the ability to develop that part of his game.
From Derozan's first year in the league to his second he was a totally different player. If he can keep that work ethic and drive to be better up I could see him as a top 5 SG in this league easily.
Give it 2 more years and this conversation might sound much different.
Yeah, MagikKnick, but Harden has those same physical tools, he's extremely explosive and everyone knows DeRozen has a big vert, but Harden is faster and stronger with a comparable vertical and a more mature game. I don't see how that translates into a higher upside for DeRozen.
DeRozen is a better dunk contest dunker, but I really don't see where he is more athletic than Harden. Harden is one of those players who jumps as high and runs as fast as he needs to.
I'd take Harden without a doubt. The only thing going against him right now is he's playing with two stars on a very good team and doesn't get to show what he can do as much as a player like DeRozen, who's team is garbage.
Derozen = the type of player to get drafted by the raiders
Harden = a team that takes a need
Harden is the better player right now, Derozan shows flashes, but just hasn't shown enough for me to consider him over Harden.
I believe both have the potential to develop into 20 point scorers in this league, Derozan just needs to improve his shooting even more than he has already.
Harden is just a complete offensive player, he can drive and shoot the 3. He needs to keep playing how he was at the end of the regular season and improve his D so that he can get more minutes.
I was gonna stay out of this but then I saw symbol blast the raiders. F U homey. OAK!! LAND!!! Black and silver , black and silver , black and silver...
But seriously James harden is the correct answer. I don't think he's any better defensivly though. But harden plays so much smarter. DerozAn has potential, but he does kinda play like a raider.
DeRozan all day, everyday
Harden is the better complimentary player. I dont think he will ever be a 1st option type guy, he is a 3rd option type guy. Derozen has 2nd option type skill...or 1st option on a poor to fair team. I will say their careers may mirror 2 forwards who went in the same draft...Odom (Harden) and Marion (Derozen). Derozen's start will shine brighter and he will make some All-Star appearances, Harden may never make an All-Star team but will be great in his own right. I wont stay one will be better but they will be DIFFERENT types of good/great players.
Derozen is a lot more athletic and explosive than Harden...combine numbers dont mean anything. That doesnt translate to in-game explosiveness and athleticism. If you think the only difference between them athletically is 1" on a vertical, u r crazy. LOL. Wayne Ellington tested better than James Harden at the combine, max and no step. Is that to say Ellington...although he is a good athlete is a better athlete than Derozen and Gerald Henderson?
when oakland stops drafting players because they can run a 4.2 then i wont make jokes
James Harden is comparable to some 2 guards that have been in the league longer and are starting or like Jamal Crawford come off the bench. Harden can do a little bit of everything. I am hoping that Brooks can has some Harden to his game. I think when OKC lets Harden start and play 30 plus minutes, some people will see how good he is and how much better he is than DeRozan. I like DeRozan but can you imagine if both players swapped places. DeRozan could not fill the role Harden can because he needs his touches. Harden can do a lot with a few touches.
Harden can also pass pretty well.
Here is the thing about this.. Of course the majority of people are going to say Harden. However, most people dont really know.. Everyone has been watching Harden for the playoffs and guess who hasnt been seen in a while? Derozen.. Also, Harden has played much more on National Televison while Derozen doesnt even get every game televised in Toronto.. Trade these guys teams, and all of a sudden, everyone says Derozen because they get to see him much more..
90% of people are "fair weather fans" regardless of if they admit it or not.. Most people like who is good at the time and forget the rest of the people..
90% of people dont watch games but they do watch SportsCenter.. Since Harden plays for OKC, and at the moment, they are popular, their team is on TV more and covered more.. Derozen on gets on SC when he has a nice dunk or something...
I have to say that Derozen is a better player.. Dont get me wrong, both are fantastic players and they, along with Tyreke Evans, are the future of the 2 guard spot in the NBA. However, I see Derozen attempting to carry a team while Harden is just playing his game with great players around.. After this experience with having to bare such a load in Toronto, Derozen is going to have experience that Harden will never have.. I see that experience making him a great player once he gets people around him..
Just my opinion..
Harden is much more polished better all round player. His passing, shooting and defense are good.
Derozan is far more athletic and explosive obviously, but lacks the bball IQ and polish of harden.
I would like to just say, on behalf of myself....
That is all.
Harden, hands down, and it's not me being a "fair weather fan" either. I live in LA and have watched both since high school and throughout college to the pros and Harden is the better basketball player. Derozan can jump out the gym but Harden is a pretty decent athlete himself. Harden should sustain a high level of play longer than Demar because Hardens game is not dependent on his athletic abilities while Derozans game is at this point. Hardens I.Q. and jump shot are both beyond Derozans. I like Derozans game and wish him well but I'd take Harden because he can do much more on the court.
I think people need to cut some DeRozan some slack with the "low bball IQ" comments; when you're playing for a team without a lot of scoring and need to do most of it yourself it's going to result in some poor decision making. When the Raptors mature and DeRozan doesn't have to force so much that's fine. Again, Harden looks better because of the situation he is in where he's playing his role and has great teammates around him, DeRozan is practically on an island.
Also, coaching. Jay Triano against Scott Brooks... hmmm. I think it's a tie right now to be honest, but DeRozan will be the better player in the future.
I think people are really selling Harden short. If you got by his basketball skills and what he brings to the table, compare him to other 2 guards and you will be surprise by what you come up with. I think the Bull would be in the Finals if they had Harden as their starting 2 guard. I would take Harden over OJ Mayo. I would take Harden over Jason Terry who looked stupid guarding Harden at times. Harden plays like a 10 year vet as far as playing mostly in control and balanced. I think DeRozan will get it but I give him at least another 2 years before he plays with the same level of calm.
Right now Harden is the better player. He has handles, can create off the dribble, can knock down open jumpers and has a high bball IQ. Derozan improved a lot last year and has more upside. I would take Harden right now, but Derozan has more upside and can become a better player than Harden. Not sure if Derozan will put it all together, but I hope he does.
Harden got way more exposure this year and looked great in the playoffs. I really didn't see Derozen play last year but when i did, he looked ridiculously athletic.
I'll say Harden right now because he was on another level in the playoffs and showed he was more of a play maker (at times) then Westbrook. But Derozen does have Vince Carter like tools to be better in the future.
No Derozen doesn't have Vince Carter like tools but a poor man's Vince Carter typer tools. Remember Vince Cater had a 44" vert and a 6'11 wingspan compared to Derozans 38.5" vert and 6'9 wingspan. But they are neither here but the big difference is Vince Carter came out of college with a skill set comparable to Hardens but was even more athletic then DDR. So let's not get carried away.
The Odom/Marion comparison for this conversation was incredibly enlightening and makes complete sense. DDR is a gym rat with a good head on his shoulders as is Harden therefore both should continue to ascend into stardom. However like Marion, Derozan's stardom is gonna be electrifying and filled with highlights at it's peak, then drop off suddenly. Harden a.k.a. Mr. Old Man's Game will be more like Odom as in Harden will always be on a winning team making "Just Enough Contributions To Win."
I will say this however that right now and for the future Harden has a much more complete skill set to excel as a 2guard. If you put both these guys in the gym together right now Harden looks more the part then DDR. Harden has a unique build for a guard with extremely long arms (nearly 7 foot wingspan) and extremely broard shoulders. Harden also has more lateral quickness and strength. DDR is more fluid and plays with more flair.
I would also like to add to this thread that every attribute we are giving to Harden and his future sans the outside shooting Evan Turner will emulate in the same way for success. After watching Turner all season and then in the playoffs in person rise to the occasion and never look out of place but on the contrary looked extremely natural under the pressure and the lights i came away certain he will reach his potential. Then while watching Harden play against the Mavs I noticed that he contributes all the small things with a knack for making a big play or shot similar to Turner. These 3 are going to be extremely interesting to watch develop and usher in a new generation of 2guards in the league.
derozan will have the better career, he is officially the raps franchise player as of now, where harden will always be 3rd wheel to the kd and russ express. Derozan will be an all star in a few years, if u watched raps games as much as i did this year then youll realize derozan may have the 2nd highest ceiling in this class only behind blake "subway" griffin
Both of them need to show better consistency in the future to take the next step to being all-star caliber players, but im taking the more versitile Harden. With Harden you get a guy who give u spot minutes at the 1, a pretty good shooter and able to mix it up with his slashing ability, also as we saw in the playoffs he is a pretty good playmaker getting others involved. If he ever puts it all 2gether on a consistent basis he could be a Manu Ginobili type plater for OKC. Derozan...although he had a pretty good season this past year is pretty much a 1 trick pony at this point, is jumper has improved, but for the most part u know he is still primarily as slasher. Derozan is an exciting player to watch and a highlight machine (Ask Tyrus Thomas lol) but give me the more versatile Harden that brings more skills to the table to help my team.
today it's Harden, he is more complete and he efficient..
but watching DeRozan and his improvements more and more i believe that there is only matter of time when he will be an allstar player, i'd take him for my future
rite now i would have to say harden.... but living in toront and getting to watch the raptors u guys are really selling demar short on other parts of his game... his defence is pretty slack... hardens is better but how much better? and it helps ur defence look better when u have a team that is committed to palying defence unlike the raptors.
but hardens game is more complete rite now... but to say that demar has a terrible handle is stupid... harden is a playmaker... but with demar there were sttretches this year where he looked to be a very efficient scorer and getting better all the time... imagine if he actually got the calls that most players get... the raptors cries about not getting calls were real and the effected demar a lot...
another question i would like to ask... how would harden do if he was the main player defences were trying to stop every night ?????? demar after the all-star break was the focus of defences with bargs being out and he really stepped up and had some great games... also to say that because of the combine results harden is close to demar as an athlete is ridiculous... if people got to watch demar play consistantly they would see this guy can be something special... not just because of him as an athlete but because he is a true gym rat... just wait... i guarentee that he will expand his range out to the three just give him time to put in the work... people said his mid-range game was weak and he came back this year with a much improved jumper... he is a worker... and i never bet against someone who works that hard...
so i would have to say harden now but defenitly demar later
@surve, athleticism isn't only a vertical leap. My point is that Harden is stronger, faster, and has a pretty damn good vert without being quite as high as DeRozen. You don't need to look at combine numbers to see that Harden is faster and stronger and still has explosiveness, but in the world of nbadraft.net it never hurts to add some statistical backup so I included combine numbers.
for now i think its harden without a doubt
no denying that
in the future, im tempted to say derozen
but both guys will develop into 20 point scorers or more
Thunder = lost in Western Conference Finals
Raptors = won 22 games all year
Derozan def improved (mid-range jumpshot) since his rookie season but he was also spoonfed the ball. He played more minutes than Bargnani. Demar shot like 9% from 3pt range (unacceptable for a SG) and is a poor defender (gambles for steals).
Yea Demar may have more potential but you know what you're getting with Harden. Demar doesn't have to compete for minutes in Toronto and I don't know if he would look as good on a winning team where he's not guaranteed the starting position.
And now for the thumbs down from the Raptors fans...
Surprisingly scouts said he wasnt a great athlete ,that was the major knock against him coming out of Arizona State....Remember alot of people were comparing him to Manu...And like Manu,Harden knows how to pace himself...And he's more explosive than you think..I was surprise they didnt let him be a starter from the begining of the season..Becuz he's a crafty playmaker,the best passer on the team and his game compliments Westbrook...
Derozan is still a work in progress..While i think Harden played so well during this season playoffs the Thunder will be urged to make adjustments to their starting lineup next year...
Derozan will continue to tease us with his inconsistent Vince Carter like moments during 1 half..Then play like Gerald Green the next half of the game...He's too inconsistent right now to be Toronto's 2nd option....
I cant' say who's better because to me it's very close, but I will say this: Derozan is way better than I thought he'd be on the offensive end at this stage of development. If you would've told me Derozan would be a 17 ppg scorer in his 2nd yeat I would've fought that to the grave. Derozan couldn't even dribble more than 3 times without getting ripped at USC! And he was a spot-up MID-RANGE shooter. He improved alot. I still think his upside is more Richard Jefferson than Vince Carter though.
Derozen is better so far, but these guys are going to improve every year barring injuries, so let's see who shows the most growth. Harden seems to be the better shooter thus far even though it's streaky right now. I think Harden has the better handles as well.
Harden really showed the world what he's capable of, during the playoffs this year....And if he starts next season he might be the 5th best shooting guard in the league ...
Harden could be an allstar but he has evident weakness that hold him back and he must fix - defensive awareness.
Derozen also could be a great player, he do remind me RJ skills wise but with better quickness, fluidity and better motor.
Is a better all-around player, and he did show he will be a valuable contributor during these play-offs. Nonetheless, I think calling DeMar DeRozan out as a dunker and as playing on a poor team is seriously overlooking a possible big time talent. Yes, his team is awful, but if you switch the two, I am not so sure that either team would miss much of a beat. DeMar's shooting needs major improvement, but he rarely shoots three pointers and shot a pretty nice mark from the field. The guy is also a relentless gym rat and is very focused on getting better. I am sure James Harden trains hard as well, but I do not know if he will ever be in the condition DeRozan is in.
Surprisingly enough, Harden is actually younger than DeRozan by a few days, even though he played a year more of HS. When it came to athletic testing for the 2009 draft, Harden tested better in everything other than Max Vert, and their Max Vert reach was off by half an inch in DeMar's favor. He outlifted him 17-5, and he has proven to be a much better shooter thus far than DeRozan, and more than likely always will be. Still, when it comes to using his athleticism, I give advantage to DeRozan. I also think DeMar is more aggressive defensively and that when it comes to game time, is in better condition than Harden. For these reasons, I feel DeRozan definitely has potential to be a better player.
Harden's stock definitely skyrocketed after his play-off performance, and he seemed to get stronger as the season progressed, but I believe DeMar did as well. I think FG% can sometimes be a great equalizer when it comes to shooting, and while the Thunder may miss Harden's shooting ability if he were replaced by DeRozan, DeMar might provide some aspects that would indeed gel very well with Westbrook and Durant. Harden had some great games in the play-offs, but he was inconsistent at times and he shot 30% from 3, though his overall 47.5% was awesome. Still, I think DeRozan should be given time to prove himself and that he landed in a situation where it was very tough to shine. Nonetheless, his improvement was real, he became a much more complete player and I think he has a bright future and that he could indeed surpass Harden. Do not sleep on DeRozan, and do not raise James Harden into the elite after a 13 ppg play-off's on a team with two high caliber All-Stars.