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were these guys eva supastars?

Malik-Universal
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were these guys eva supastars?

i cant decide on my own

baron davis (b4 clipps)
steve francis (b4 injuires)
elton brand (b4 injuries)
chauncey billups (b4 denver)
stephon marbury (b4 craziness)
peja
michael redd (b4 injuires)
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires)
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08)
michael finely in prime
latrell sprewell in prime
antione walker in prime
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009


Chewy
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Depends on your definition

of a "superstar". Mine would be a player that can win a championship as the number 1 player on his team. So going by my criteria, none of these players are superstars. However, if someone has a different view on what a "superstar" is then there can be different opinions on these players.

joecheck88
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baron davis- I think he was a

baron davis- I think he was a superstar, he was my favorite point guard back in like 2000-2001. Beast in charlotte.
steve francis- ya, he was like a mini lebron. he was fun to watch.
elton brand- no, he was a really good player but not a superstar. kind of like carlos boozer
chauncey billups- definately no, great team player and big shot maker but not a guy that could carry a team
stephon marbury- to me, no, he put up great numbers but I have never been a fan of him.
peja- no
michael redd- was getting there, but didnt make it so no.
jermaine oneal- yes, he was very good. I would take a healthy Pacers Jermaine O'Neal over Bosh now.
shawn marion- no, he is the ultimate hustle player. Has gotten by on mostly athleticism which is fine but no.
michael finely- I can't say, dont remember his prime much(maybe that mean no)
latrell sprewell- Don't remember much of him before he retired but I dont think so
antione walker- I have to say yes, he was a different kind of player and can still remember his days in Boston well
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009- no, just a solid pg in a great situation, but Duncan and Ginobili were the main cogs

joecheck88
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superstar

and my definition is lead a team to atleast a Conference Finals as the number 1 guy. And some of mine are based on potential(if they had played a full 8 or more seasons). Guys like Steve Francis, baron Davis, and j oneal could have been and in my mind would have barring injuries.

mess.eee
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baron davis (b4 clipps) =

baron davis (b4 clipps) = NO
steve francis (b4 injuires) = YES (Before Yao, he was their franchise player)
elton brand (b4 injuries) = NO (put up good stats on bad teams)
chauncey billups (b4 denver) = NO (U can argue Hamilton was the best player on Pistons)
stephon marbury (b4 craziness) = NO (Like Brand, good stats, bad teams)
peja = NO (He was never the best player on the teams he played for)
michael redd (b4 injuires) = NO (I say no, he was an All-Star caliber, but not Superstar)
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires) = YES (He was an anual 20-10 guy on playoff team and was the best C/PF in the East at one point)
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08) = NO (never been the best player on his team)
michael finely in prime = NO (Same with Marion)
latrell sprewell in prime = NO (His prime years were with the Warriors which were bad teams)
antione walker in prime = YES (but flammed out quick and was taken over by Pierce)
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009 = NO (Same reason as Marion and Finley)

Basically I look at a "superstar" as someone who is considered a franchise player/cornerstone player, and constantly put his team in winning situations. Alot of the players on this list put up good stats on bad teams.

the lake show
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No Parker was a superstar.

No Parker was a superstar. You say he was just part of the Duncan spur tandom but if I'm not mistaken he was a finals MVP and was one of the top pg in the NBA so yea he was a superstar. Marion nor finley have ever been close to being that before

Zeke33
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baron davis-YES. He was at

baron davis-YES. He was at one point for a few years a superstar in Charlotte. He was a huge part of that Heat Hornets rivalry and was a very exciting and explosive player on many highlight reels and also very entertaining in the dunk contest wth VC and in the rucker leagues. I remember him doing alot for the game as far as entertainment and numbers. and What he did with Golden State beating dallas i feel was superstar material.

steve francis (b4 injuires) Absolutly. its sad how quick he fell. in my eyes hes just like Penny as far as how great of a direction their careers were going in..even though Penny had a finals appearence.

elton brand (b4 injuries) No.

chauncey billups (b4 denver) No...but hes the Glue to any team

stephon marbury (b4 craziness) As much as i dislike him he was definatly a superstar. he averaged 24 and 8 a few seasons. Hes not a winner but was is a superstar.

peja- No

michael redd (b4 injuires)- I say as far as numbers a few seasons and me personally yes but he wasnt popular enough to be one to most people.

jermaine oneal (b4 injuires)- eh...

shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08)- No. it showed when he left PHX

michael finely in prime- Yes. he didnt get the credit he deserved for being in dallas all those years when they sucked

latrell sprewell in prime- for a year or 2 yes. but i think most people say no. to much like Ron Artest with his attitude

antione walker in prime-YES. Alot of people dont remember who he use to be but in some ways he was the go to guy over Pierce at times. Some people would argue who the main guy was on that team for a few years. Clearly Pierce had the better career

tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009- No

Cardinal_Fan
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All of the above were 2nd

All of the above were 2nd tier stars in my opinion

Zeke33
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Stanford

Tony is a great pg for the spurs system but he is not popular enough to be considered a superstar to most people. and hes a third option on that team. The only people u see wearing his jersey around are females who think hes hot. VERY solid. Superstar??

the lake show
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Oh we aren't basing it off of

Oh we aren't basing it off of ability or accomplishments. It's off popularity. In that case you're right. Steve Francis was a superstar then

omar dayze
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no matter what your opinion

no matter what your opinion is, during the GSW/ Dallas series Baron was THE superstar

andxxx
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superstars are players who

superstars are players who can be the 1st option and lead a team to a championship none of those players ever had that ability in my opinion

Zeke33
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in that case Billups has to

in that case Billups has to be a superstar to if you say parker is. Popularity actually does have something to do with being a superstar as much as it shouldnt be

gainsey15
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baron davis (b4 clipps)- He

baron davis (b4 clipps)- He could of been just seemed like he didn't want it as much.
steve francis (b4 injuires)- very talented player but I don't think he was ever a superstar
elton brand (b4 injuries)- The year with Sam Cassell he was on his way but injuries derailed him
chauncey billups (b4 denver)- superstar no great team player and leader yes
stephon marbury (b4 craziness)- no never really been much of a winner
peja- no not good enough on defense
michael redd (b4 injuires)- same as peja
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires)- yes
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08)- no nash made him look way better on offense then he really was
michael finely in prime- no very good number 2 or great number 3
latrell sprewell in prime- same a finely
antione walker in prime- is this a joke?
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009- no Duncan is the only Superstar the Spurs have makes everything easy for everybody including Parker, take Duncan away and add a decent PF may not make the playoffs during 05-09 take Parker off and add a decent PG not really much of a difference maybe a few less wins

nateoak10
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baron davis (b4 clipps) -

baron davis (b4 clipps) - Kinda, top 5 PG in Charlotte and GSW
steve francis (b4 injuires) - No
elton brand (b4 injuries) - meh
chauncey billups (b4 denver) - I think so
stephon marbury (b4 craziness) - Ya
peja - No
michael redd (b4 injuires) - close
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires)- ya
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08) - ya

sc0rebuckets11
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only guy i say was

is stevie franchise.

besides AI, he was one of the faces of reebok (at a time), and he brought a lot of excitement to the game, and fans.

Tony Parker could have been, but the league didn't maximize on him being an international born player.

the lake show
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@gainsy15. Take Parker off

@gainsy15. Take Parker off and point a of and it's almost the same?? Are you high? Parker was finals MVP and killed that whole playoffs. So it must be easy to do that huh. Finals MVP must be easy to get then huh?

billyk
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None of those players where

None of those players where superstars.. Alot of those players had some good years, but to be a superstar you have to
consistently be GREAT (top 5 player) over a LONG period of time (at leats 5 years) plus they have to be on a playoff caliber team...

hiphopismylife
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It would really ave to depend

It would really ave to depend on a persons own definition. We can't just judge by titles because Allen Iverson was definitely a superstar and didn't lead a team to a ring. Same with KG before Boston. In my opinion a young Steve Francis is the closest on that list. I don't think Steph quite got there, atleast not for an extended period of time due to never establishing?endearing himself with one team long enough

gainsey15
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@Stanford hoops

Wtfreak does that have to do with anything... I don't know what you consider a "superstar" but I consider it to be somebody you can build a contender around. Now let me ask you a question can you build a contender around Tony Parker (05-09) I don't think so. And as far as the finals MVP goes go back let's go back and look at the numbers
game 1 Parker: 27pts, 7ast, 4reb, 2stl, Duncan 24pts, 12reb, 5blks, 1ast,
game 2 Parker 30pts, 2ast, 3reb, 1stl, Duncan 23pts, 9reb, 0blks, 8ast,
game 3 Parker 17pts, 3ast, 5reb, 0stl. Duncan 14pts, 9reb, 2blks, 3ast,
game 4 Parker 24pts, 1ast, 7reb, 0stl Duncan 12pts, 15reb, 2blks, 3ast
Parkers numbers for the series are 24pts 3.3ast, 4.8 reb, 0.8stl Duncan's are 18.3pts 11.3 reb, 2.3 blks, 3.8ast
Just going by numbers one can make a case for Duncan then if you factor in Duncan's defense and the fact that he's a double team every time down maybe the voters got this one wrong.

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peja. if i knew how to put in

peja. if i knew how to put in pictures you can believe youd be seeing a little cmon son action right now.

gainsey15
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Oh and as for me saying

Oh and as for me saying they'd win with a decent PG during that time well they did win with Avery Johnson and a rookie Tony Parker so....

killerinstinct23
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i like this forum

davis was always to me on the verge to bein a superstar and he had the intagables.he was always bothered by injurys and infact he was one of the top pgs to me in the years between 02-07 i liked his run with gs warriors as well to me they should have kept that team the year they got rid of dallas plus he let wade shut him down his rookie year in the playoffs.J oneal was one of the top fours in the leauge in 03-06 he was riddled with injurys as well so he was a superstar and still can contribute off the bench i never like francis he dribbled to much and was selfish marbury showed glimpse of greatness just was a had case everybody doesnt need to be rich steph was one of those people his head messed up and he was to arrogant and wanted to be pampered. Billups/ most defintley was a superstar i mean he took the pistons to the finals twicw and that 04 pistons team was a real underdog with wallace playin center that was a great team lead by him see billups was a late bloomer iin his career he is past his dominate years but he can still play for a couple more years.Peja was a good role player but was no star.Redd was gettin there and becomin a legit three point threat in the nba but due to injurys his career is put on hold. Marion is a role player as well as mike finley.Sprewell was aggresive and played with a passion for the game but was never a great player more of a scoring energy type guy that could match up with just about any 2 in the leuge the time of his prime.Walker was a great 3pt shooter but was never really a superstar type more of a role player.And parker has three chips and is not that old i think he is still one of the top pgs in the leauge but was never a superstar pg like isiah thomas cuz he has a lot of zeke in his game

killerinstinct23
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i like this forum

davis was always to me on the verge to bein a superstar and he had the intagables.he was always bothered by injurys and infact he was one of the top pgs to me in the years between 02-07 i liked his run with gs warriors as well to me they should have kept that team the year they got rid of dallas plus he let wade shut him down his rookie year in the playoffs.J oneal was one of the top fours in the leauge in 03-06 he was riddled with injurys as well so he was a superstar and still can contribute off the bench i never like francis he dribbled to much and was selfish marbury showed glimpse of greatness just was a had case everybody doesnt need to be rich steph was one of those people his head messed up and he was to arrogant and wanted to be pampered. Billups/ most defintley was a superstar i mean he took the pistons to the finals twicw and that 04 pistons team was a real underdog with wallace playin center that was a great team lead by him see billups was a late bloomer iin his career he is past his dominate years but he can still play for a couple more years.Peja was a good role player but was no star.Redd was gettin there and becomin a legit three point threat in the nba but due to injurys his career is put on hold. Marion is a role player as well as mike finley.Sprewell was aggresive and played with a passion for the game but was never a great player more of a scoring energy type guy that could match up with just about any 2 in the leuge the time of his prime.Walker was a great 3pt shooter but was never really a superstar type more of a role player.And parker has three chips and is not that old i think he is still one of the top pgs in the leauge but was never a superstar pg like isiah thomas cuz he has a lot of zeke in his game

VMAN25
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Walker vs Brand

Okay how was walker better than Brand??? please someone explain this to me... personally i would take Brand in his prime over Walker in his prime anyday... Brand was a 20-10 guy for most of his career

killerinstinct23
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walker wasnt better than

walker wasnt better than brand just more effective but they was the same size and walker won a chip numbers dont mean nothin walker was more useful to a team cuz u can play small with him in the lineup with his ability to play the four brand was and is too injury prone to be effective in the playoffs and is not valuble to a contender becuase of that walker would be better cuz of his value to the team compared to hes. what if u took walker off the 06 heat team and replaced him with brand u think they would have won..... no brand was never in a situation like that and walker was clutch for miami in their playoff run in 06

killerinstinct23
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walker wasnt better than

walker wasnt better than brand just more effective but they was the same size and walker won a chip numbers dont mean nothin walker was more useful to a team cuz u can play small with him in the lineup with his ability to play the four brand was and is too injury prone to be effective in the playoffs and is not valuble to a contender becuase of that walker would be better cuz of his value to the team compared to hes. what if u took walker off the 06 heat team and replaced him with brand u think they would have won..... no brand was never in a situation like that and walker was clutch for miami in their playoff run in 06

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None of those guys will make

None of those guys will make the Hall of Fame...Billups & Parker are the only 2 that have a slight chance of making it....
All of those guys were All Star players but not Franchise players..

There was a time when Antoine Walker was concidered to be a better player than Pierce..
When Baron was on his game, no point guard was better..
Steve Francis was crushed when he got traded from Houston..Those close to him said he put on a smile and accepted the trade but never got over it..

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I'm shocked some of you

I'm shocked some of you picked Walker as a superstar. I hated the way he played, he was such a chucker and averaged 41% from 2 for his career, never shooting above 43% for a season and for the majority of the time Walker could have been in the arguement for being a superstar his team was pretty terrible. Antoine Walker was the Stephen Jackson of his generation and although a very good player, no one is arguing that Stephen Jackson is a superstar.

VMAN25
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My opinion on this

baron davis (b4 clipps): Had a good career, first few years in charlotte and GS he was one of the TOP PG in the league, but when you play in a system like GSW have in the past few years it's tough to consider from the stats being to inflated. YES IMO
steve francis (b4 injuires): Had the Talent: like someone said before he was the franchise of the rockets but didn't last long so NO
elton brand (b4 injuries): All Star stats, could be that playing for the clippers and their losing ways that he was never considered a SUPERSTAR: NO
chauncey billups (b4 denver): Great Leader and Clutch Team player but not a superstar NO
stephon marbury (b4 craziness): Francis but much more crazy in the head
peja
michael redd (b4 injuires): very good scorer but not a superstar
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires): One of the best big man when he played and IMO the Pacers could of easily been in the ECF if not for the Brawl in Motown... Yes
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08): System Player where Nash made him better NO
michael finely in prime: Barely an All Star good role player or 2nd option in Prime NO
latrell sprewell in prime: This might sound crazy, but the guy was a very good shooting guard and even though i want to say yes, i think he wasn't that good for a long time
antione walker in prime: Just plain and simply NO! rick patinos 3pt shooting team boosted his stats
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009: lighting quick PG that was/is a very good pg but not a Franchise Player

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NOOOOOOOOOOO

maybe Chaunce b/c he was the best player on arguably the best team of the era.....

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No, none of those guys were a

No, none of those guys were a top 10 player at any point in their career, none of them were superstars...a few all-star games sure, great players yes, but not superstars.

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Two

I don't think a superstar has to necessarily lead you to a championship. I think when you get to guys like that then you start getting more towards legends. Karl Malone helped to get his team to the finals two times, but had some big time choke moments. Anyone that watched those games, Utah should have won at least one of those series. There have been other guys, but he's one a lot of you are familiar with.

I'm borderline on Parker. I think if he was on a different team he could not only be the man, but put up pretty big stats. These no hand checking rules make him pretty hard to contain. He was also a finals MVP. Anyone that has watched Spurs games notice that a lot of what this team is able to accomplish is pinned on Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. All 3 guys have been all stars and can be amazing when healthy.

The rest of the guys are not and have not been superstars. I think Jermaine O'Neal was soft like Charmin. He wasn't anything once Reggie Miller left. I always think that Chris Bosh is going to be an upgraded version of him. Antoine Walker could at best lead you to the snack machine. Francis and Marbury were two overhyped ball hogging ineffecient shooting guards that were forced to distribute to others. Brand was a really good player for a few years, but not some untouchable player. Peja a really good shooter...that is all. Finley and Sprewell...good careers, but will probably be forgotten in the next 5 years. Billups....clutch role player, knows his role, no superstar. Redd = smaller version of Peja. Shawn Marion...everything that is wrong and right with the NBA. The guy plays his hardest and gives you his best every game, but he has no real skills. He has somehow found a way to have a long NBA career without developing any of his abilities. This is a guy that if he was in Europe, I don't know how much he would have gotten to play. Because he's developed no aspects of his game, his decline has been really rough.

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Like others said depends on

Like others said depends on your deffinition.

baron davis (b4 clipps) = yes, was a beast in charlotte
steve francis (b4 injuires) = deffinitely, was one of the most popular players period but didnt last sadly
elton brand (b4 injuries) = very talented big man but not a superstar, like someone else said a Boozer type
chauncey billups (b4 denver) = no, great leader but not a superstar in his own right
stephon marbury (b4 craziness) = this ones a close call, besides being the second best on the timberwolves id say he was a star

peja = one of the best shooters of all time, but deffinitely no reggie miller
michael redd (b4 injuires) = on his way but didnt make it
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires) = deffinitely, j'o'neal was great to watch back in the day
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08) = in my opinion yes, anyone who can put up multiple stats like he did is a superstar

michael finely in prime = yes, hes one of the most underrated players of all time, even when he had steve nash & jason kidd(original mav tour not second) he was #1

latrell sprewell in prime = superstar of the media and having people hate him lol, as a player not really, kind of a ron artest guy

antione walker in prime = had a couple good years in boston, but he was no superstar
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009 = no, just an above avg. pg

NJHooper95
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Bdavis was one of the best

You dont have to win a championship to be a superstar, you just have to be on a good team to win a championship. B Davis is arguably the most offensively gifted point guard to play the game. Before injuries you will be hard press to find a pg in the past with Davis's combinations of strength, quickness, superior athlecticism,superior ball handling, passing, post abitily, and jumper. When he was on top of his game no one could stop him. You saw a glimpse of that when Golden State upset Utah a few years ago and Davis was just amazing. There are alot of guys who played on winning teams that are overrated, they shined because of the team around them. I.E. B.J Armstrong was great with the bulls, did you even know even played on another team afterwards.? Tracy Mcgrady never made it out the first round if im not mistaking, but wasnt he a superstar at one point. Winning is great, but nobody wins by themselves, you have to have a good team. Be real! Francis was a superstar himself briefly. Definitely one of the most entertaining and unstoppable guards during his day.

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My take

baron davis (b4 clipps)---------------------------------NO. Had a few good years. Dont recall him leading his team anywhere.
steve francis (b4 injuires)------------------------------YES. Popularity-wise he was there. NBA Live cover and put up stats. But not a leader or winner
elton brand (b4 injuries)---------------------------------NO. Very good player in his prime who played extremely well in a contract season(shocker)
chauncey billups (b4 denver)---------------------------NO. But a player who has lived up to his potential. A Winner, a leader and a Champion.
stephon marbury (b4 craziness)-----------------------NO. Very popular player. Good stats. One of the most overrated players of our time.
peja---------------------------------------------------------NO. I refer you back to the corner 3 in the playoffs against the Lakers.
michael redd (b4 injuires)-------------------------------NO. a good 3 year run that led nowhere. over achiever
jermaine oneal (b4 injuires)-----------------------------YES. If Ron doesnt cause brawl who knows what that Pacer team does. They won 60+ games.
shawn marion (b4 he got traded to the heat in 08)--NO. Athlete . Another over achiever who ran the floor better than most.
michael finely in prime----------------------------------NO.
latrell sprewell in prime---------------------------------NO. Had some great seasons. Playing in NY when they were OK made him look better than he was
antione walker in prime---------------------------------NO. The worst shot selection of that generation.. His swag and game made him popular though.
tony parker between yrs. 2005-2009-----------------NO. Was always a #2. A great one and that is all.

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