Alright guys, I just have a general vertical jump question. So I'm 17 and half years old and right now I can get about an inch or 2 above the rim (I'm about 5 foot 7 or 8). I've always wanted to be able to dunk but I need about 5 more inches to get it done (my running vertical is around 33-35 inches right now). I work out regularly but my gains haven't been as significant lately and I just want to know, at what age do people generally have their highest vertical leap? Have I already peaked, or is 17 and a half too young for that to have happened yet? I understand that everyone is different, but in general, at what age would someone jump their highest?
At 17 and a half I don't think you peaked man. Some people peak at about 21-22 in the athleticism department.But I doubt anyone peaks with their vertical at 17. If you can get faster than you can jump higher.They both go hand and hand.If you have a 35 inch vert at 5'8 that is a dunk. So maybe some of your numbers are off. You didn't peak though,just keep working.
Like you said everyone is different, at 17 you're still growing , so your muscles used for jumping are not the primary focus of your bodies development. Peak natural leaping ability, without training occurs around 15-18, but that's by no means a deterant because you're still able to harness and extend on that with training. At the moment at 17 you'll have plateaued with you jumping, but you'll still be far from your peak, just be patient, wait for your body to catch up ( not meaning stop training) and you'll start steadily improving again. I'm 20 and was in the exact same situation, though I'm 5"9. I could hardly dunk at 17, but am abl to now with training. Also, a weight vest is great, though watch the surface you're on cause landing awkward with one of those on is painful.
Best of luck to you mate
this is what 5'9" looks like dunking a mini bball... Video = proof. I need a 38" to dunk a real ball based on online calculator. 7'4" standing reach.
More likely to doubt than believe anyone anyone says. I'm 27, and in medical school, most of what you read / hear is completely ignorant and bull*ish*
Its all about the dedication u put in the weight room at this stage. At 17 you've pretty much peaked at what youre going to naturally be able do. But it's now all about doing the right exercises for what you hope to accomplish.
Squats, calf raises, jumping rope, working on your core, lunges, and a good plyometrics routine are critical.
I maxed out around 17 but I was fairly lazy.
It's a lot of money, but the Jump Manual really works. I'm 17 and a half too (the half counts!), but I'm 6' 3" and I can barely dunk it. (I've never known why I couldn't jump that high, until someone told me I had flat feet....and apparently people with flat feet don't run as fast or jump as high as they would with regular feet). Before we started working out for basketball last year, I did the JM for 3 weeks or so, and after that I could put it down pretty easily. Nothing spectacular, but extremely good progress, especially in that short window of time. However, I cut my leg open mowing the lawn so my vertical fell back down to normal because I was out for 3 weeks, and by the time I got back my coach wouldn't let me do my workouts. But now I started again, and after a week there's already a difference again.
Long story short, if your parents would spend the money, the Jump Manual actually works, way better than the other internet jump programs. It's somewhere around $60 I believe
Blah blah blah ... blah blah blah
Listening to people who's advice on success include 1 month of work and no proof.
Dude, you know what to do; the question is - do you have what it takes? You need to educate yourself with technique / video work. You need to get a good lifting plan that addresses the relevant task at hand. And most of all don't F'n quit.
Don't worry about other's opinion. Most people are clueless (read idiots who just talk not walk). Don't worry about looking stupid because you have lofty goals in life. If I gave a **** I wouldn't be awesome in life - and that's not ego that the truth.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to work bud. Good luck - do work.
I have used Tim Grover's "Jump Attack". It is a twelve week program and it says that it will increase your vertical 6-14 inches. You are not going to get 14 inches from it, but you will increase it if you work hard at it. At about week eight I was able to barely dunk and by week twelve I was able to throw it down a little easier. Unfortunately, I hurt my foot a few weeks after week twelve and it has not felt better since, but i'm hoping it will get better soon. I am 6'2'' and white.
Thats from January last year, improved a bit since then, but that is still at 19 and was the highest I'd jumped at the time. So at 17 you've still got plenty of time to improve
I play righty but noticed I got higher going up lefty off too feet. Check your technique too. Walk on your tip toes up stairs flexing your calf muscles.
HAVE YOU PEAKED!?!? My man... seriously. You're 17! Peak performance is dedrived from maxing out every facet of athletic performance your genetically capable of attaining. Physically you haven't even matured yet. Just wait until you get some man strength in you.
This means Speed, Power and Reactive ability... then in addition, jumping involves ALOT of technique. Technique is the single most underrated aspect of jumping... but its not the end all and be all. If your freakishly athletic you'll still dunk even if your technique blows goats. Usain Bolt never touches basketball and he has some monster throw downs in him. Watch youtube vids of tremendous jumpers and then film yourself trying to jump. Compare the 2 and you'll be appalled. TFB vids are misleading when they're in slow motion. What your not seeing is just HOW FAST those dudes are moving on their approach and then being able to flawlessly transfer all that speed into upwards momentum. Have low body fat. At your height you MUST be under 10%. If your midsection has an 8 pack... your there... asthetically speaking, but you need to functionally be able to apply it in a useful way.
Core work is important. I'm 34 and I still do 160 situps in 4:30min without having my legs braced. All the way up with a outward flexed core at the top (pop it) and then all the way back down... crunches are not gonna do it. Leg Lifts. You need the full range of motion in everything you do. Uses all the little muscles you never new existed. Your body should feel like a piece of steel when you flex.
Just imagine what your trying to achieve... you think crunches are gonna get you there? Imagine every BS pain in the A$$ exercise there is... and then do those ones, cause those are the ones that will get you where you wanna go. Deadlifts. Squats. Pushups, Pullups. Sprints, Box jumps. Be fast, Be strong, Be powerful. Let me ask you this... even at 5ft9 are you athletically crushing all the dudes you play ball against? I mean your so fast they just wanna go home when you get on the court? If not, your not even remotely close to being in the ball parks, parking lot of peaking. Most people will never PEAK in their entire lives. Some NBA athletes are pretty close but the best Jumpers in the world are in the Olympics.
If you can deadlift twice your bodyweight with good form... you'll be able to dunk...ok. 2.5 times is better. If you can run anything near 11 seconds in the 100m... you'll be able to dunk... however both are contingent upon maxing out your jumping technique aswell. If you can pull off 10 free standing pistol squats on each leg... you should have enough strength to dunk...ok
Imagine whatever you think is IMpossible to achieve and work towards that. Crush it in workouts but be smart. Rest is just as important. I'd only maximum jump twice a week if I'm in great shape...and I'd work those jumps into my basketball sessions (which double as my plyo workouts). If your making gains even though your jumping more often its likely due to many other factors, IE weightloss, improved technique, improved muscle tension. Twice a week is the sweet spot because you need the rest. When I say maximum jumps... I mean start running from half court with everything you have and I want you to throw yourself up towards the rim with every ounce of WILL you have in you... and do it with flawless technique. You might have about 10-15 great jumps in you per session. Id weight train 3 times a week and include all the exercises I need to turn myself into a machine.. and then 2 days of ball where you play like a madman. Low stance on defense, always pushing myself to be faster and faster... and faster. You should go home after ball and need a nap because your so exhausted and beat up from pushing yourself. Be intense! Whatever you are is never good enough... BE FASTER. Some part of your body will always be sore. The ones that are sore should be rested untill they recover... focus on the other parts. Don't over train in frequency... but when your training, kill it. 2 days a week of rest...some weeks, 3 days depending on how your feeling. Take a 5-7 days in a row off every 10 weeks or so.
It is so hard to keep this up for any extended period of time. Knowing every session is gonna be just as hard or harder then the last one because thats the only way you can improve. It wears on you.
Have you peaked? My man... Seriously? Make jumping your life and you'll get there. Eat, sleep, train and breath jumping. There's no trick and no need for jumping programs. Man up and stop looking for the EASY way to dunking. WORK! Be smart. Be an athlete.
This is real good stuff you told the young man. Now at 34 I just want to know can you dunk?
LOL... yeah I can still throw down. But I need a small step now.
I can endorse HotSnot's post as excellent advice.
You need to be doing lifts that focus on explosiveness, plyometrics, core work and cardio. I always thought I had peaked in my early 20s, but I'm starting to question that. I'm turning 30 in a couple weeks and have always kept myself in good shape, but as I approached 30 I wanted to get in great shape.
I was a former high jumper, so with a run and a one footed jump I can get much higher than a two footed jump, but I hit the 11' mark yesterday at the gym which equates to a 38'' jump for me. That's the highest I've gotten since I was 21. I have to warm up considerably longer to get that kind of height, but age doesn't matter.
You have plenty of YEARS left to work and max out your vertical.
Thats Awesome JoeWolf1. Congrats! If you stay injury free you should still keep progressing. Injuries always derailed my progress and forced me to hit the reset button.
I hear ya on the "warm up". It takes me about 15-20 minutes of playing ball to feel like I've loosened up. When I was younger I could warm up taking a few deep breaths. :) Pushing myself to the extreme feels like I'm going to break apart now... but I just ignore it and assume that I won't... so far I've held up.
I'm 6ft1, with a 6ft3 wingspan. Nothing special. My best jumping weight is about 179-182 pounds at about 5-6% body fat. My max deadlift at that weight was 395 pounds. These were my numbers at age 31. If I went lower in bodyweight, I felt too WEAK to do what I wanted. If I was around 190-195 I didn't feel fast enough and my power to weight ratio was lower. My natural body frame is "pear shaped"...so I'm not a natural athlete and I was a half a pack a day smoker!
Lately I've been doing the "300 workout" once a week. Google it. Last Sept on my first attempt I couldn't even complete the thing. The first time I finished was at 25:30. Last week, my 31st time giving it a go, I hit 14:57. This is an excellant workout for total body fitness and to give you the type of foundation you need... but jump training is completely different.
Thanks man, yeah, I hear you. There is not such thing as going into a gym cold and throwing down a dunk, haha.
We're about the same size. I'm 6'2'' with a 6'3'' wingspan and usually am around 173-177 lbs. My body fat is probably closer to 8 or 9% but I'm getting it down. I don't do deadlift anymore( when I did it was no where near 400lbs, lol) , but I like to keep my squat over 300lbs or I feel I don't have the power to not only get a good jump, but keep my jump endurance. I like to do rim touches as part of my plyometerics and with my 7'10'' standing reach I can get an inch over the rim for a set of 10 so that's 10 consecutive jumps of 26'' or more.
I've always lifted, and done a bit of cardio, but I've really enjoyed getting back into my old plyometric and jump training I did when I was younger and doing high jump and triple jump. You're smart to have kept up that kind of training.
Core, core, core... And more core. That's what'll have you jumping out of the gym and exploding past people. I used to do core excercises literally until I just couldn't anymore. I'd do them so much I was walking hunched over at school the next day.
I was never a big weight lifter, but I did a TON of jump rope. Jump rope is amazing for you. I also did a lot of good old fashioned calf-raises just right on the steps. I did other leg excericses like burnouts, leap ups, thrust ups, etc. Rim jumps without and with a medicine ball will have you right. Leg extentions with light weight.
Workout Mon-Fri and rest/stretch on weekends. That rest is important because you have to make sure you give your muscles a chance to heal.
everyone can talk but why would anyone buy anything you can just google?
Lets see you touch top of the square..
Lets see you dunk with your 1 step only
Lets see you just standing leap 10x 1in over the rim consecutively.
Kid don't buy people that have not proven to you they are someone worthy of listening to / following. Do they have a track record? Do they show that they can do it themselves or have trained others?
I'll bring a camera and video it. I had planned on posting a video of my dunking on my 30th birthday anyway. I have no reason to lie to people on the internet.
http://www.kcctfca.org/Results/StateTFResults/1998-1999%20State%20T&F%20... That is a link to the Kansas State Track Meet in 1999 to prove I am my age, I placed 3rd in the state and know a thing or two about jump training. My name is David Ray, I placed 3rd in the 3A division with a jump of 6'4''. You don't just high jump 6'4'' if you don't know a thing about jump training. I'll have my video in a couple weeks when I turn 30.
@FrogmanV, your too jaded. I've done this $hit. I practice what I preach. You can always tell which posters have gone down this road and which ones are just blowing smoke. I believe JoeWolf1 and Indianabasketball whole heartedly.
@JoeWolf1. Your 300 squat at your height/weight is crazy impressive. I found that anything over 260 at my frame felt like my back and shoulders were being crushed together... I found it very heavy. 260 was about as far as I was willing to push myself and I might do 3 sets of 2 reps at that weight. I'd use 210 for sets of 8-10, slow down, fast up. Deadlifts just felt easier to me. I think it has to do with the way I jumped. I could deadlift 300 no problem using sets of 5-8. My PB of 395 is only 1 rep and I used straps because I couldn't grip that weight freely. While I set that PB, I was so happy I got the weight up (I had a brain fart) relaxed for a split second and crumpled face first to the floor, falling over the bar. Straps remember? I smashed my shoulder into the ground and had a big gash ripping through my shirt that took a month to heal. :p I still have the shirt.
Joe your #'s sound very reasonable you say your 6'3" with a reache of 7'10" You're arm's seem smaller proportionally vs mine. I'm 5'9" and standing reach of 7'4" ...so perfect shift of 6"
Based on the "Need +6" over the rim to dunk" commonly accepted, I'd need 38" to dunk. Can't palm the ball is probably going to be the biggest issue for me and likely will never happen so for a real ball I'll just need to get oops and show palm work with the ole 27.5" ball / soccer ball LOL.
Simple way to calculate video verticals are to take a someone's height and find a frame that you can get their full standing non-motion height on a ruler or even a simple piece of paper. Then you take that same piece of paper and shift the end with the feet up to the waistband (immobile) --> hold it there --> find the frame from original waist band to the final peak waist band and make a new line.
Fold the end to the person's first height line..... see if the peak waist band is above or below that fold line. For me 5'9" = 69" ....divided by 2 = 34.5" I'm a notch or two over that. So I'll just say 34.5"+ for erring on the safe side. I need "3.5 or less" more to getter done, and given I dont have time to work out... I think that should be reasonable to come by.
I'd like to see a video so we know. Don't hate. I'm just highly skeptical about almost 90%+ people you claim some CRAZY BS numbers. Very easy to disprove with simple proportions. I'm all about proportions given how short I am but rather naturally athletic - I'll always point out that no kidding a 6'3" guy (guys in my school who dunk)... can dunk with ease... he has likely no more than the need to jump a 29-32in vert....
30in / 94in = 32% for your case to merely dunk
38in / 88in = 43% for my case to merely dunk.... thats the % of our standing reach!!! SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE in difficulty (not you but anyone at the gym who throws down that's taller than you.. just think of the advantage they have that takes NO ATHLETISM!)
38:88 proportional for XX:94 >>> 40.6" Vert you'd need to match me IF I could dunk a basketball. IMAGINE if you could do that Joe! Think you can dunk now? Think if you could dunk THEN!
I will say I dont know how to improve your ups or when you will hit your peak to be fair to the question
I do know that a dunk and a layup are both worth 2 points. If you just want to stay dunking to get the thrill then just get a cart flip it over and jump off it. If it for a game then just get the ball in the hoop. Im 33 and I still play pickup ball and my jumpoing days ended when I was 23 cuz I focused on everything below the rim. Im coordinated enough to still catch an oop and lay it up when I have proper position but it isnt dunking. I dont care how good the kids are that I play against, if you score you get respect wether you dunk or you go to my shot...the finger roll
Looking forward to the video man. I reckon it'll be a good lesson in maintaining your hops, since you've been doing it since 1999.
@Hotsnot, I have short arms and wide shoulders, lol. It's a weird combo, but it always helped for doing squats. Dead lift is a tricky lift, it always made me feel I was using my back too much so I quit. I actually give my high school weights coach a lot of credit for my development because his emphasis on Olympic lifts like hang clean and snatch.
@Frog, I need a higher vertical to dunk because due to a wrist injury I attained in high school, I cannot palm the ball with my right hand. I generally need to get my whole hand over the rim to dunk, and my hand is about 8''. I need 34'' vertical to get a bottom of the barrel dunk and anything higher to get some solid authority.
I proved I can get my whole body over a bar 6'4'' inches in the air...at age 16. My one step vert was over 40'' back then. I will prove I can do a set of 10 rim touches, and I will prove I can dunk with authority at age 30. I'm a pretty modest guy so I don't lead with videos and stuff, but I love to prove doubters wrong.
I can squat over 300 lbs easy and I haven't come close to dunking in about a month. It's disappointing. I'm with JoeWolf with trying to avoid deadlifts it feels really weird and I always feel like I'm going to hurt myself.
You can't jump? No one's listening.... to your biased/convient "I don't do deadlifts". WHat a joke your entire opinion was from start to finish. Congratulations?
Thanks for the music.
Is that referring to me? If so I'm not sure how anything I said was biased/convenient. Not sure why I'm a such a joke if I can't dunk at 5'9.
I don't understand where this is all coming from. Many posters who contributed to this post were merely trying to share their experiences to help out a member of this site.
Apparently you need to have a video credential proving you can dunk a mini ball in order to call everyone a liar. You never shared a bit of advice, other than, I have a 33-36'' vertical and everyone is a liar. Then calling anyone taller than you, who can dunk, unimpressive.
When and if you get to the point where you can dunk a men's ball, you'll find there is more to it than getting 6'' over the rim. Thats fine if you can palm the ball, but if you can't you need more height. Many taller people who are dunking can do many dunks and get much higher than the bare minimum of 29-32'' off the ground to dunk. As weary as one should be of taking advice from those with no proven credentials, one should be equally weary of taking dunking advice from a guy who can't dunk.
Any dunk you see that or has any downward momentum has much more than 6'' above the rim. To do a two handed dunk you have to have both hands over the rim and I'm sure you know a two handed standing reach is lower than a one handed reach. If your Napoleon complex is really eating at you next time you're at the gym, you can keep telling yourself they only need a 29-32'' vertical, but a lot of times it's much higher.
I don't care if you can jump higher than me, I'm pushing 30 and there are a lot of guys who can, i just don't appreciate being called a liar.
Who cares what this guy says... This is the same thing I fell into with boywonder.
IF you post a video, that would be coo, but you don't have to. You don't have anything to prove to some guy on the internet... Who's probably just starting something because he's pissed off about who knows what in real life.
Like HotSnot said... You can tell somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. You don't have to do a backround check on everybody that throws out a little advice, etc to help someone.
I hear you, man, I'm going to do a cardio/plyo workout this afternoon so I think I'll post one of my sets of rim touches. I really have a lot of knowledge to give about jump training, and if this clears up any doubt then I have no issues sharing video footage as well as print.
I had planned on doing a dunk video on my birthday, I'm not going to do it today because of a dispute on the internet, but it should be pretty easy to tell from my plyometric workout that I am a very capable jumper, and nearly ten years removed from the "ideal" prime for jumpers.
Sorry I took an aggressive tone there. I orginally posted on this post as an attempt to share my knowledge and help youger guys get the most out of their legs while they are in their primes. I had some plyometrics scheduled for my workout today so I figured I'd video them and share a bit of information as to why they work and what I do.
If any of you guys were doubting taking my information because I have no proof. Here it is and I hope it helps anyone who wants to take my advice.
Beast mode!! Haha. I believed you Joe. That's not bad. I used to dunk in HS at 5'8" I was about 160 then. I didn't play for a few years after and bloated to 250. Now at 23, I'm at 180 but can only slightly grab rim. So, I'm definitely open to everyone's advice. I'm trying to stay away from weights though. My max squat is 405 but it's not really my thing.
Good ish Joe!
I used to do those too. I prefered the no step, jump straight up and down, and then EXPLODE back up with a medicine ball rim jumps.
That excercise really helped my quick jump/second jump explosiveness. I'd recommend these to anybody.
yeah, I've thought about bringing a medicine ball down to the court and trying that. That's a good idea. I don't have ankle weights, but I've started to hold 10 lb weights when I do box hops. Any added weight on plyometric jumps seem to really improve explosiveness.
@ JoeWolf1, great video man, shows up Frogman, even though it might not have been your intention. Stuff like that gets me motivated to get out there again and start jumping again. Being only 20, if I can still be maintaining my jump id be a happy man.
@FrogmanV , Relax man, calling out people because you think theyre "ignorant" isn't going to get your opinion across, itll just make people neg you and scroll over your comment. People don't need videos to justify they know what they are talking about. I get all my info from my sports scientist housemate , and he doesn't jump but knows what he's talking about more on the subject than anyone I've ever met.
Nice vid Joe. Nothing beats proof. Your still moving really well at 30. Your biomechanics look fine.
I got the impression you weren't giving it your all on those jumps though. They looked like 85%. Do you ever take longer rests inbetween jumps? Say like 20-30-40 seconds? It sounds long but if your more recovered you should be able to explode higher and with more force, more consistantly. Getting use to that type of feeling is just as important as jump endurance. Use alittle more upper body and arm movement. Its one thing to train jump endurance and another to train for Split Second maximum explosive ability. As you know from your high jump days, jumping is really violent on your body when your going for a personal best. You gotta Psych yourself up and attack! I know its not attainable but the mental goal should be to set a PB everytime out. Its a frame of mind. I have no doubt you can beat your PB's even at 30... but once you get into better shape your Intensity level definitly has to pickup. Its really hard to train that way as you get older but I'm sure you'll be able to when you get your confidence back in your conditioning level. Awesome Job though. I know how hard those last few reps start to feel. You'll be ready for the 2 handed sets soon enough.
One more thing. AVOID ankle weights. Weighted Vests are great and Dumbell Jumps are awesome, but ankle weights destroy your knees. The reason being, each time you jump the ankle weight will cause a small over-extended seperation in the knee/ankle joint and then recompress each time you land. Bascially your ripping the knee apart and then slamming it back together on each rep. Its truely Awful for your knee joint. Your knees are your friend.
Yeah, they weren't all out since I do 3 sets of those, 85% is probably pretty accurate. I've never tried resting longer between reps for straight vertical leaps like that, but that's a good thought. You bring a very valid point with the way I've been training. I could probably stand to step it up a notch, since I generally workout alone it's tough sometimes, but I think you're right when it comes to getting to the next level.
Dumbells it is! I can get a one hander that rocks the rim a bit now, but I'm really hoping to throw down a two hander or something cool off an oop on my birthday so that's my goal right now. I'll keep you guys posted.
Second on he avoid the ankle weights. Not a good thing. I'm not sure if I like too much jumping with weights at all. But like hot said don't use ankle weights. Vest will give you endurance and it shouldn't hurt you. Dumbel might be a little rough on the rotator cuff. But I dont know.
For me, the best thing was heavy one legged leg press. Plometrics worked a bit as well. But ployometrics were tough on my jumpers knee tendinitis while a few sets of heavy weights a few times a week was not.
@TallmanNYC. I agree regarding the one legged leg press... its why I'm such a fan of Pistol Squats. Its the same exercise... but you can do it at home and it improves balance tremendously. If you need more resistance, hold dumbells in your hands while doing them... or anything heavy you have lying around the house.
For all of you questioning whats possible and "have I peaked"? If you can't out dunk this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVSZU5TmsQo you still have room to grow in you. I'm hoping this is still me at his age. It doesn't declare his wingspan, but he's 6ft1.
Avoid the ankle weights. Weighted Vests are great and Dumbbell Jumps are awesome, but ankle weights destroy your knees. The reason being, each time you jump the ankle weight will cause a small over-extended separation in the knee joint and then recompress each time you land.
I have been wearing 3 pound ankle weights for 13 days straight even when I'm sleeping and my vertical only went up by 1 inch, yes I've heard it's bad for my knees but if that means for me to perform better on the basketball court then it's worth it, are they any ways to increase my vertical significantly in a month or two?
1) Ruining your knees is not worth it
2) I used ankle weights and my vert went way up. You have to actually train in them, not just wear them constantly
3) For improving vert over a 1-2 month span use jump soles (6 inch gain for me in 8 weeks) or consistently do plyometrics