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Val / Kanter

MCRIZZ
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Val / Kanter

I was looking through another forum and came across these statistics...

I thought they were interesting and considering I read a post about a week ago criticizing him over his play against poland (7and 4 in 18 minutes) I thought it would be interesting to look at a comparison between he and Kanter

Eurocup numbers

J. Valanciunas E. Kanter
PPG 10.4 9.6
RPG 3.6 3.9
APG 1.0 0.5
FG% 70.7 59.2
FT% 71.4 67.9

Min 17.4 17.7

Thoughts/ comments?


RichieRebel
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I really don't think you can

I really don't think you can tell much from stats in this context. I heard Val gets most of his min. in the end of games against other backup players, whereas kanter is starting for Turkey.

FLYNTFLOSSYBABY
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turkey

turkey be goin ham!!!

mikeyvthedon
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Reason he was being criticized

Valanciunas Turnovers/Fouls per game: 2.7/3 (in 17.4 mpg)

Kanter Turnovers/Fouls per game: 1.1/1.6 (in 17.8 mpg)

Yes, Valanciunas may have the slight statistical edge, but there is relatively little difference, plus we have no idea the siginificance or stature of the minutes. What we do know, is that Kanter seems to make fewer mistakes and is less foul prone. These are two things that would keep him on the court if they translate to the NBA. With Valanciunas, these show that he still has a nice deal of maturation to work on as a player. With his average amount of fouls, he would be on track to foul out of the game in 29 minutes (5 fouls in International basketball).

Jonas has indeed picked his play up as the tournament has gone on, but the amount of fouls and turnovers are big time signs of him still being in the maturation process. Yes, he is very young and could turn things around, but he still definitely has to do so before being anointed Dwight Howard's heir apparent. So, those other statistics are interesting, and show that Jonas turned his tourney around, but they were not the major issue being raised about him, which were the two statistics posted above. Also, Flynt, Turkey be goin' home. Unfortunately, they did not advance in Eurobasket, hence will not be in next summers Olympics. So, unless "Ham" is a bad thing currently, probably not the best description of Turkey at this point in time.

seniokas
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As a person who has very deep

As a person who has very deep interest about this European championship and watches almost all games ( all that are televised lol ) I would like to present my opinion about these two rising european stars.

At first, some context about Turkey's and Lithuania's teams. Expectations before the championship very extremely high for Turkey after their silver-winning World Championship where they lost only to the USA, despite the loses of Karem Gonlum or Semih Erden they still had one of the strongest frontcourt including Chicago's backup center Omer Asik, NBA players Ersan Iliasova, Enes Kanter, Hedo Turkoglu and experienced backcourt.

Still, those expectations and pressure that Turkey had are uncomparable to Lithuania's. I believe that majority people who have some interest about basketball know Lithuania as a country of basketball and this championship is the first champioonship hosted by Lithuania since 1939. Non-lithuaniains can only imagine how crazy mine country is right now ( Im Lithuanian btw ). One of the biggest questions before the Euro's was how our couch Kemzura will deal with loses of undoubtedly the best Lithuanian player right now Linas Kleiza and probably the best small forward in the country Jonas Maciulis.

But I'm a little bit or not a little lol out of topic. When Lithuanian final roster was anounced everyone expected that Jonas will be only the 12th player but after one of the centers M.Petravicius injury couch had to give some pt for Valanciunas. Jonas used that player as good as it was possible while in the first 3 games he almost didnt play or played trash minutes as SLCJazz82 mentioned after the loss of another center he averaged 24 minutes 13.2 points 4.2 rebounds 1 steal 1.4 assists and 1.4 block. And was playing in the final minutes in majority of those games even though they all were the close ones ( Including 9 points in the 4quarter against Germany and a block on Nowitzki when the result was tied few minutes left ).

Enes Kanter also saw pretty good amount of playing time during the tournament although his two best games were against the weakest teams ( Poland and Portugal ). Still he was playing incredible for such a young men especialy after two years break. What impressed me the most was his footwork - maybe he doesn't have a very big arsenal offensively but he is still a very young player and those moves that he knows he uses very effectively.

To sum up, they both have very bright future and I expect them to have at least a few all star appearance per both. And I cant wait till Jonas will develope his post game and I can tell ya that he is definetely quick enough to play 4 , I can easily see him developing into tough version of Pau Gasol which sounds scary lol.

And finally, Turkey wasnt able to advance to quarterfinals whereas Lithuania is going their way to the medals.

khaled_a_d
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Val has really improved since

Val has really improved since the start of the tournament ,And while at first he was getting his points against bench players,he was playing meaningful minutes after that and he proved that he is really valuable for the team
I am really a big fan of Jonas ,since may be last European U-18 last year and he has done nothing to change my opinion in this tournament
that said mikeyvthedon is right,his fouls are a lot ,he needs to learn to decrease them

as for Kanter ,I will be honest and say that b4 the draft I believed he is the most overrated prospect,but after watching him in this tournament ,I am impressed ,the kid is talented
whenever he got the ball at the low post,he will find a way to create his own shoot,he is really strong too
that said he lacks ideal height and athleticism to finish many of his play,unlike Jonas he isn't gonna score those easy alley oops and dunks with ease ,also he isn't the best help defender,which forced that coach to use Asik more than him (Asik played gr8 in the games I've watched btw) ,he looks to me that he is more of a PF than a C ,but playing beside Favors will be gr8 fit for hm
Overall ,I like both players,and think they have a bright future ahead of them,and both are really different players who are gonna join a team that actually fit them
I hate the fact that both will be compared a lot,I mean yes both are same age,international and was in the same draft,but they are still different players ,good ones for sure

seniokas
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Some statistical stuff

Some statistical stuff http://www.in-the-game.org/?page_id=15214

per 28 minutes pace-adjusted Jonas even though with 4 turnovers and 5 fouls is in the 6th place w/ 18.5 per. Kanter is just slightly worse w/ 16.3

bksmith
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I have not watched any games

I have not watched any games featuring Valancuinas so I won't comment on him but I do want to add some things to what has been said about Kanter.

First of all, Turkeys offensive playcalling is just hard to watch. Basically you can sum it up like this, Hedo or some other backcourt player has the ball and they either hold the ball until the shot clock is almost out or they launch a quick, contested three pointer. Every once in a while they manage to get the ball to one of thier bigs and let them go to work. A majority of Kanters minutes are a result of his hustle, ie rebounds, fast breaks etc. When they have looked for Kanter he has done a respectable job. He is no where near elite but he can bang with the best in Euroball as well as NBA talent too.

Another note to all of this is that the Turkey NT coach seems to be confused about his subs. Anytime a player gets on a roll they get subbed out. On the other hand you can have a player like Hedo that is shooting 4-15 fg and letting his man get to the rim and ease and Hedo still is getting about 30+ mins of playing time. There have been times that Kanter is the best player on the NT but we would not be able to tell because he gets taken out of the game too quickly.

paradigmn
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^^^^ bksmith

You hit the nail right on the head bksmith!!!

I watched all of Turkey's games also...and it was very hard to watch.....it was basically give it to HEDO....let the shot clock run out....HEDO shoot a one legged fade away...SMH....Kanter played well...but...his coach def did not know how to play him....or....the rest of the team for that matter.

I am very disapointed with Turkey's performance.

rileymcshea3
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IMO those 2 players right

IMO those 2 players right there have the best chance to make an all star game out of this draft class

BothTeamsPlayedHard
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Here is the thing, when

Here is the thing, when Valanciunas is getting points, they are basically because Jasikevicius and Kalnietis are gift wrapping dump offs and alley oops. That is not a shot on him, but it is a fact. He wasn't able to score on Fat Elvis in the post, and they tried early on when they thought Portugal was a walkover. You can't compare the polish of Valanciunas against Kanter. Anyway, neither of them seemed to want to acknowledge that they have a left hand, but the Turkish team kicked it into Kanter in the post against Little brother Marc, Dirk, and Kaman and got results. He had a hook as well as an up and under. It isn't earth shattering stuff, but it doesn't have to be. There is a notable difference that needed to be made on that front. One guy is getting set up by teammates, the other is doing his own work (the offensive rebounds Kanter got helped him out as well). Now, Toronto is currently looking at a roster of Bargnani, DeRozan, and Bayless. Those guys aren't setting teammates up. They need to get themselves a real point guard, and it wouldn't hurt to undergo a complete teardown to build a team properly. I do think Kanter's offense is far ahead of his defense, but seeing as how Kanter hasn't defended anyone in two years one has to expect that he wouldn't be good on that end. Still, those feet have to move in the NBA.

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