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Utah Jazz Options

richgates
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Utah Jazz Options

I keep seeing mocks and discussions with the Jazz taking a small forward. That makes no sense to me at all. The Jazz don't need a small forwardl. They really need skilled big men. Especially one that can play defense.

I think they should try and trade up and get Derrick Favors, although I think the chances of that are unlikely. If that isn't possible I would like to see them draft Hassan Whiteside since he has huge upside and there probably won't be an instant impact big man left by the time they pick at 9.

What do you guys think?


White Chocolate
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If they believe that they

If they believe that they need to either trade up and get Cousins or draft Whiteside at #9 and hope he works out.

richgates
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I just think they need to

I just think they need to decide on whether they want someone who is going to be an instant impact player or someone that they can develop in the system. The bigs they have right now aren't getting enough minutes and they are not athletic at all.

I know that Deron made comments about the team taking steps to be a contender or he will leave, and the only way they have a shot at getting past the Lakers is to get more size that can challenge the likes of Gasol and Bynum.

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I think if they are going to

I think if they are going to take a SF then they need to move up and get Wesley Johnson. He can be great without the ball and with Deron Williams at point Johnson would get at least 3 dunks a game from his creating.

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Their scoring production from

Their scoring production from the wing isn't great. CJ Miles is formidable at the 3 and Matthews is just ok at the 2, they can do better than that. They have some nice bigmen auch as Ak(combo forward) Okur, Millsap and Boozer...That is DEFINITELY the best bigmen rotation in the league right now. I agree though, none of those guys(outside of AK) is a lockdown defender. I like Whiteside, Cousins, Monroe,George, Johnson, or Turner for them

sammybuckeye13
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People might recognize me by

People might recognize me by now by how often I write about this particular thing, but the Jazz NEEEEEEEED a big man (read: center) capable of blocking shots and matching up with the Lakers' big men. They will never beat the Lakers, or a team with big men of that caliber, due to their interior defense (or lack thereof). Boozer is a very mediocre defender. Millsap is a better defender but smaller and gives up a solid 4 inches to the Gasol's of this game, and Okur is also a poor defender. They don't need more offense. They averaged 107 ppg in the playoffs, in which Okur played 11 minutes. They need some goddam post D, and this happens to be the most loaded shot-blocker draft in memory.

I think they might find Whiteside a little raw, and while I personally like him, his combination of immaturity (according to Chad Ford he "Compared himself to everyone from Dwight Howard to Hakeem Olajuwon, complained about where I had him on my mock draft - No. 14 to the Rockets - and was insulted that our scouting report didn't have more on his 3-point shooting ability") will likely scare them away. I guarantee you Sloan wants nothing to do with him, especially because they need to win now. I love Greg Monroe even though he's not an all-world defender. I liked Cole Aldrich, but his being just 6-10/236 compared to the projected 6-11/250 made him a little less appealing. Udoh has a great motor, is a monster shot-blocker and his length allows him to play like a center. Also much more polished than people realize. I think Monroe or Udoh is the pick.

richgates
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I agree with you Sammy. They

I agree with you Sammy. They really need a defensive stopper in the paint. That will free up AK to roam more and help out on the perimeter. I don't think the Jazz are going to resign Boozer, which means they are going to need someone to replace him.

I am a little concerned with Cole Adrich because I don't want another Ostertag. I wasn't aware of Whiteside's immaturity. I know that won't fly with Sloan. He is famous for getting rid of players like that in a heartbeat, DeShawn Stevenson a recent example.

I need to look more at Udoh. Monroe looks skilled, but he seems a bit timid. I would really love an aggressive defender and shot blocker. I don't really see a good option like that in the draft, and the Jazz have a hard time getting quality free agents. Who wants to play in Utah?

butidonthavemoney
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Wow

sammybuckeye, that is some interesting information. Thank you for that.

Wow, another Aldrich/Ostertag comparison...

Have any of you seen Aldrich play? Seriously? I didn't think so.

JazzinSLC
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Udoh is the perfect fit...

They didn't nickname him the "Nightmare" in college for nothing. A terrific shot blocker, and a fluid athlete at 6'10.

richgates
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Sorry if I offended you

Sorry if I offended you butidonthavemoney. I will be honest, I haven't seen much of Cole Aldrich so the Ostertag comparison is probably unfair. I have been a fan of the Jazz since they moved to SLC from New Orleans and they have a tendency to draft really slow and unskilled white players as big men. Greg Ostertag, Billy Paultz, Rich Kelley, to name a few.

Cole Aldrich seems better, but as you know the pro game is different with the players being a lot stronger. I wouldn't mind if the Jazz took Aldrich, but I don't think he's going to be an instant impact player so I would rather take someone like Hassan Whiteside who has the potential to be a stronger defender in my opinion.

butidonthavemoney
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I've

I've explained it so many times. Aldrich is completly different from Greg Ostertag (I've been a Jazz fan since the Double-Zero days as well).

But what the hey? If you see somebody making this comparison, just tell them the following.

1. Ostertag had conditioning issues, Aldrich has always been in great shape

2. Aldrich is 1000 times more active than Ostertag was.

3. Aldrich is a lot smarter than Ostertag was.

4. Aldrich has better hands (can't tell you how many times Tag bobbled a nice pass from Stockton)

5. Aldrich is more offensively gifted (and a better free throw shooter).

6. Aldrich is more athletic (poor combine numbers don't mean jack to the people who have scouted Aldrich)

7. Aldrich can actually defend the pick and roll

8. Aldrich is a better passer (he can nail an outlet pass).

JazzinSLC
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For the record...

I thought Greg Ostertag overachieved at the NBA level. He was a late first round pick, who was the starting center on a couple of teams that played in the NBA Finals. His shot blocking ability behind Malone really helped against guys like Shaq and Hakeem. Why does everyone always rag on him? It's not his fault if the organization decided to over pay him. Outside of Mark Eaton, and Mehmet Okur he's the best center the Jazz have ever had.

butidonthavemoney
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True

Ostertag did a lot of things that the Jazz needed, and every once in a while, he would have an amazing game. However, even salary aside, he also caused a lot of headaches and problems for the Jazz. Poor conditioning, lazy work ethic and a lack of any offensive improvement kept him in Jerry's doghouse.

Aldrich will quickly become a Sloan favorite, he can come off of our bench whether we keep Booze or not, and he can be Memo's eventual replacement.

Look at the skills he brings; blocking shots, team defense, post defense, pick and roll defense, drawing charges, hustling, rebounding, outlet passes, setting screens, running the floor, toughness, finishing ability and a solid hook shot. On top of everything, he has a high character, a strong work ethic and is one of the safest picks in the draft. If he falls to the Jazz, we should not hesitate to draft him.

richgates
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@butidonthavemoney: Glad to

@butidonthavemoney: Glad to hear it. I will stop comparing the two players. If he is still on the board I won't be as reticent about the Jazz picking him if they do. It's good to hear that he is an active player. I think that is where they are weakest right now defensively.

I agree with you on the combine. I am not really concerned with those numbers as they only tell a small part of a player's overall impact.

@JazzinSLC: He was a good shot blocker, and he wasn't really needed for his offense so that wasn't an issue. My problem with Ostertag was he seemed to make a lot of dumb mistakes and his work ethic was terrible. That's why he was always in Sloan's doghouse and that clearly made his play even worse.

ajthejuiceman
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shot blocking center, trade

shot blocking center, trade for rip hamilton

cyclo
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Aldrich measured 6-9

Aldrich measured 6-9 w/o shoes, which is shorter than every C on the Jazz roster and 3 inches shorter than Ostertag.

He weighs 236 lbs.
His max vert is 28 inches, which is lead-footed.

He simply cannot score (9.4 ppg in college) and won't score at the NBA level. Isn't much of a passer either. Averaged less than 1 assist per game in college. 0.6 to be exact.

Aran Smith correctly compares Cole Aldrich to Eric Montross/Joel Pryzbilla. The comparison is accurate. See their career numbers in college...

Eric Montross, North Carolina, 7-0
11.7 ppg 6.8 rpg 0.6 apg 1.2 bpg 58.5 fg%

Joel Pryzbilla, Minnesota, 7-1
9.9 ppg. 6.9 rpg. 1.9 apg. 3.3 bpg. 59.1 fg%

Cole Aldrich, Kansas, 6-10
9.4 ppg. 7.7 rpg. 0.6 apg. 2.3 bpg. 57.4 fg%

Aldrich is clearly the most offensively-challenged of the three, averaging the fewest points per game and shooting the worst %.

As for Ekpe Udoh, he's the same height as Brian Scalabrine 6-8 3/4. If you think that's C height, there's something wrong with your eyes.

richgates
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cyclo: Those are valid

cyclo:

Those are valid arguments against those players, but who would you pick if you were Utah?

butidonthavemoney
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Ha

richgates, how are those valid arguements?

1. Players don't play without shoes.

2. Athletic testing is a horrible way to judge players. Cole Aldrich is an above average athlete for an NBA center.

3. Career numbers aren't a good way to judge a young developing player. Look at per-minute production or his final season at school and then get back to me.

If you think that cyclo's arguements are valid, then that's where our conversation ends.

richgates
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I meant they are valid

I meant they are valid arguments for him. If measurements, athletic testing and career numbers had no relevance at all, it wouldn't be done. I don't think they should be weighed anywhere near as much as the other things we discussed, but it is his point of view and therefore valid.

But by discounting those players I am curious who he would choose instead.

NYK2010
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I like the Rip Hamilton idea

I like the Rip Hamilton idea though his contract is for the next 3 years and to get him they'd have to move AK47 and get back Wilcox as well.
They definately need some size at PF/C.
Okur is injured during the playoffs too much and not a shot blocker.
Its time to let Boozer go and the money saved with Millsap should help them.
Don't waste a top 10 draft pick if no legit big man is there I'd take the bpa who isn't a PG.

Also Ostertag was nothing special just a big body for the Jazz.

butidonthavemoney
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Eh

I'm sorry. You guys can think what you want.

So much more I want to say, but I can't, due to the fact that I have to be somewhat more responsible now. Boo hoo.

I need OrangeJuiceJones to come and cheer me up.

bankjung
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umm

I think all people in this year except wall and favor are not interesting. I hope the jazz trade this pick with some team for the next year draft like indiana(my postpect no.1 draft next year) or houston(they want whiteside).

My reason is the jazz want to success they do not want to build team so they want PF who replace boozer(looser) likes Bosh(If posible) .

If slone stay this systems support always support power forward to make apoint and the others position will support them, so If you get d-howard ,he will be tranform to so so player in jazz systems.

they want the ring ,so the draft cannot help them for future but Free agent can help them more and they do not have time for the rookies to improve themselve in the leauge likes koufos and fres.

sorry , if my opinion make someone angry me.

Jazz thailand.

butidonthavemoney
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Hahq

I will be so mad if the Jazz trade this pick. I have been looking forward to this draft for 3 years now. No joke.

Would kill for Aldrich or Monroe. Would backflip if we got Udoh. Wouldn't be upset if we got Patterson or Eddie Davis. Would be cautiously optimistic if we got Motiejunas, Aminu or Babbitt. Would be baffled if we got Orton, George or Henry. Would be scared if we got Whiteside.

That's my emotion chart.

jazznationpresident
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don't forget about the big picture

Remember, the draft isn't the only way to get talent. I think too many of us have hung our hopes on the draft helping us get past the lakers. I think the jazz need to draf the BPA at 9. Then use the market and trades to get what we need. So if we get a small forward in the draft, it doesn't mean we won't pickup another big guy or trade for one, or vice versa. The better question, like butidonthavemoney said, is who are the players that would be BPA at 9.

I also don't see Henry, he wasn't that great. Orton is no way a 9th pick, if we got him late first round maybe...

I'm curious about George, I wouldn't be baffed if we got him, but I'd have to hear good things about his workouts... The big question about him is he played in the WAC...

I'm back and forth on Whiteside, I'm currently swinging that we should not take him or trade to get some good players and take him later...

jazznationpresident
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don't forget about the big picture

Remember, the draft isn't the only way to get talent. I think too many of us have hung our hopes on the draft helping us get past the lakers. I think the jazz need to draf the BPA at 9. Then use the market and trades to get what we need. So if we get a small forward in the draft, it doesn't mean we won't pickup another big guy or trade for one, or vice versa. The better question, like butidonthavemoney said, is who are the players that would be BPA at 9.

I also don't see Henry, he wasn't that great. Orton is no way a 9th pick, if we got him late first round maybe...

I'm curious about George, I wouldn't be baffed if we got him, but I'd have to hear good things about his workouts... The big question about him is he played in the WAC...

I'm back and forth on Whiteside, I'm currently swinging that we should not take him or trade to get some good players and take him later...

richgates
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I certainly hope the Jazz

I certainly hope the Jazz don't trade away this pick. It has always been difficult for the Jazz to get marquee free agents to come to Utah. It isn't exactly a mecca of diversity and the night life is boring to a young person. Granted, you probably don't want a player that is more concerned about partying than he is about helping your team win, but it has played a part in the Jazz not getting some quality players in the past.

I really would like to see them trade up and get Favors, but I just don't see how they could do it without giving up too much. I've not been this excited about a draft since the years I attended the draft parties in SLC where we got Stockton and Malone.

cyclo
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The offensively-challenged one

Career scoring in college:

Eric Montross 11.7 ppg 58.5 fg%
Joel Pryzbilla 9.9 ppg. 59.1 fg%
Cole Aldrich 9.4 ppg. 57.4 fg%

Final season scoring in college:

Joel Pryzbilla 14.4 ppg 61.3% fg.
Eric Montross 13.6 ppg 56% fg.
Cole Aldrich 11.3 ppg 56% fg.

The offensively-challenged one.

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I say take Whiteside. His

I say take Whiteside. His upside will pay off. We need his length and shotblocking.

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He could easily become like a

He could easily become like a Samuel Dalembert. Who is way better than Osterf@g was. I wouldnt mind Aldrich though. But he might not be around by the ninth pick. Alot of teams need a center.

cyclo
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Aldrich 6-9 w/o shoes, max vert 28 inches

How many teams want a C that scores less, and is shorter, weaker and less athletic than Channing Frye?

I mean seriously.

I think a lot of teams would accept Aldrich as a backup C, but the Jazz need to be looking for something better than a backup C with the 9th pick in the lottery!

The lottery is where you're supposed to find stars for your starting lineup, not bench players for your bench.

cyclo
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SF need

The original poster "richgates" claims the Jazz don't need a new SF.

... because a rotation of CJ Miles and Andrei Kirilenko is "the answer" there.

Oh really?

I posted this in another thread, but I'll ask again.

Is this a championship lineup ?

SF: CJ Miles, Andrei Kirilenko
PF: Paul Millsap, Andrei Kirilenko
C: Mehmet Okur, Cole Aldrich, Kosta Koufos
SG: Wesley Matthews, CJ Miles
PG: Deron Williams, Ronnie Price

Sorry. Just not sold on Miles or Kirilenko as the Jazz' starting SF. Been there, done that. Kirilenko doesn't provide the consistent shooting/ball handling/creativity the Jazz need at SF, while Miles is too small and too mediocre a talent to occupy the position full time.

This season CJ Miles averaged 9.9 points, 2.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 42.9% from the field, 69.5% from the line, 34.1% from three-point range.

Time for an upgrade.

Yes, the Jazz need a new SF. Desperately.

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The Jazz

The Jazz don't need to a first round pick.... they win 50 games a year and get to the playoffs with 2nd round picks.
Thery only have 2 first round picks on their roster.... not 2 shabby.

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I had no Idea Money was a Jazz fan

I didn't see that one coming...What do u think about Trading the 9th pick for K.Love...Letting Boozer walk and trying to sign guys like CDR and Joe Alexander for cheap...Sloane could make Joe a Matt Harpring type and CDR would start at SG...Or not trade the pick and sign CDR anyway...

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Whiteside

Whiteside is an intriguing draft pick.... but he's just learning the game. Long wing span equals lots of block shots, but it will take a while before he can guard a NBA center. He gets pushed around on the block rather easily according to scouting reports. He needs to find a veteran/patient team to play for.

butidonthavemoney
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Yeah

I've always been a big Kevin Love fan, even though he beat my high-school in the playoffs on a controversial call. I think he is going to be a very special player. I would trade the 9th overall pick for Love, but I'm not sure the T'Wolves would go for it.

Chris Douglas-Roberts wouldn't see a minute of playing time under Sloan. He wouldn't play Almond because he wasn't a very good passer/defender. CDR would be in a similar position. Joe Alexander doesn't have the born-toughness that Harpring had. I would give him a chance for the minimum, but I don't think he would get any PT either.

Remember, Sloan doesn't mold or form players. He isn't a player-developer kind of coach. He has a system, and you have to have the toughness/intelligence to be a part of it. If you don't, you go in the doghouse, and you stay there.

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Utah Jazz

Simply, Jazz needs size big time. Most likely Boozer is leaving to test free agency, however, the Jazz really needs to pick up a big man who can defend and grab boards. They have Okur, however, he relies on his shots and is not that athletic. Despite being a team that preaches defense, the Jazz really need to defend, there were flickers of light where they actually played ''D''. Well back to the topic, the other teams are really taking advantage of the Jazz's weakness, size.

They can move AK-47, however, that will be difficult to do due to his hefty contract. Its a make-it-or-break-it situation regarding their choice at the #9 spot. Thus, the Jazz need to stray from drafting a small forward and go for Monroe, Whiteside, Patterson. Hopefully they pick up someone who can help out the Jazz regarding the 'size' issue.

However, hopefully Sloan does not let whoever they pick up sit in the doghouse. He passed up on Mo Williams when he was in Utah, so hopefully they will stray from letting the rookies sit and warm the bench.

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cyclo: They need a quality

cyclo:

They need a quality big man much more than they need a SF. All you have to do is look at the Lakers series to see how easy it was to exploit that weakness. Granted, Okur was injured, but he isn't much of a defender. His biggest strength would have been to be able to draw one of the defenders out to the wing.

Now I'm seeing talk of the Jazz looking at Gordon Hayward. :(

butidonthavemoney
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Sloan

Sloan has a say in who Utah drafts. There are a lot of Sloan-esque players around our drafting area (Monroe, Aldrich, Udoh, Patterson). I wouldn't be afraid of whoever we draft being condemned to the doghouse.

richgates
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butidonthavemoney: I've been

butidonthavemoney:

I've been hearing more good news about Udoh and his work ethic. I know that is something that Sloan values above a lot of other things. I think it's because it reminds him of himself and how he had to rely on hustle and hard-nosed play to make up for some of his lack in athleticism.

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CDR had Defense

Under Sloane had thrive..He's tough and confidant...Joe Alexander would be a min. deal signing and he does like to mold guys into better players...that's what great coaches love the most about the job...If you could upgrade SG and get another young prospect who didn't really get a fair shot in Mil. and Chi. for CHEAP...and draft a charactor guy like Monroe or Udoh(maybe trade for Love) It could happen If the Wolves Love Udoh/Monroe/Motie..All good fits for a team that runs the triangle...Jazz have prospects at C and have Okur too..with Boozer bolting you have replace what he leaves behind..a low post presence with skill...That may be Monroe..If he's gone U go Uduh....

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