I was reading replies on a thread that I recently posted and NJHooper95 had an idea that stood out to me.
Do you trade Boozer for a perimeter player before he gets older or injured again? With Gibson and Asik on the bench, it seems as if Boozer is defintely expendable. Anybody see him getting traded for a perimeter scorer anytime soon?
Boozer for Areans??? LoL!! JK..
Boozer will be very hard to trade from now on.. I think he can still help this team but since he is signed for the next 4 years, he is gonna be tough to get rid of...
I came on here boasting about Chicago's prospects at winning a championship and it looks like Miami will make sure that doesn't happen. Oh well. However, there's always next time. I just hope when next time comes tht Boozer is gone and we have a quality playmaker. CJ Watson is poor in the half-court (and I rather have Josh Selby running my offense than him); Ronnie Brewer is fine off the bench; Korver is in the same boat as Boozer -- no matter how much you score, you'll always be a liability on the other end.
You'd rather have an unproven rookie who is gonna be a second round pick and could end up getting cut from a team, than a proven vet?? Thats strange when you are a championship contender...
Some people need to think before they post..
I blame their front office. They valued Boozer more than Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudemire. Help me out with that rational. That's confusing when you think about it in retrospect.
Bosh is just out playing Boozer right now. I like boozer game but the credit goes to Bosh. Boozer reminds me of Bowser (lol). Bosh is just playing at a different level right now.
Its very easy to trade guys owed 80 million dollars that are struggling to score in double figures to acquire "Legit perimeter help". Oh wait, no it isnt, hence why Boozer wont get traded.
The Bulls panicked when they signed Boozer. It was kind of desperation after losing out on the other 3.
There is no way they will be able trade him right now. They are stuck with him unless they decide to eat a bunch of money. He has been injured but his defense is abysmal.
I think Chicago should use boozer to Go after Andrea Bargnani, and In order to match sallary Jose Calderon.
Chicago is a great defensive team and has above average rebounders at other positions that Bargnani would be a good fit. He is a good shooter and scorer, and his defensive value to the team should be greater then boozer as he has 7ft length which Thibs will put to good use.
Calderon is a make up the numbers piece, but chicago could use a back up PG especially one who is as good a shooter as calderon. the defensive weakness of these two players would be reduced by not playing the together very often.
Bargnani and calderon also make less combined money then boozer.
A third team and draft picks would be needed to fill out this trade but boozer still has some value especially to a team like orlando with a good center who just needs some more post scoring
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised. Anyone who paid attention to the Jazz, instead of just looking at a boxscore knew with Boozer as your 2nd option your team is fatally flawed. Chicago is the Jazz of the east, and because of that, they'll win some games, but they struggle to make the finals. Deron's 2nd year in the league when he really came on, the Jazz went to the confrence finals too, but Boozer was destroyed by Duncan. Until they address the short comings of Brewer, who's a nice defender but can't shoot so defenders don't guard him on the other end, Boozer who couldn't guard a chair, and Korver who stretches the defense but also is a poor defender, the Bulls will struggle.
Boozer never did anything to deserve the contract he got. He was hurt half the time, and if he gave you 20/10, he'd give up at least 20/10 on the other end. The Bulls play better team defense than Utah did, and Rose is a better leader than Williams, but the Bulls are using the peices the Jazz found out didn't work - so why is Chicago trying the same thing that already failed?
Isn't insanity doing the samething over and over and expecting different results?
This is what happens when a franchise gives into fan pressure to get caught up in trade talk to make a big move. They panicked and signed a few players nobody else made much of an offer too.
They signed him because they haven't had a low post scorer for years and he brings that and he's had good if not great rebounding numbers his entire career. He's never even been a decent defender and they knew that when they signed him. They knew exactly what they were getting so they shouldn't really be disappointed
Boozer has never been that good of a rebounder. Yes, he gets good numbers, but I've been watching him play for a very long time as a Jazz fan and the guy just grabs garbage rebounds. He'll rip rebounds away from teammates just to get his numbers. If you watch him play it's easy to see the guy cares more about getting his numbers than he does about coming up with the rebound or play that wins the game.
For those of you saying that Bosh is playing at a different level right now need to look at the numbers for the series for the two PFs.
Bosh 40.7 mpg 67.4% fg 88.9% ft 1.0 offreb 7.3 rpg 1.3 apg 0.7 spg 0.3 bpg 2.0 tpg 24.7 ppg
Booz 30.7 mpg 41.0% fg 83.3% ft 5.0 offreb 11.3 rpg 1.7 apg 1.0 spg 1.3 bpg 1.3 tpg 15.7 ppg
These numbers are for the first three games of the series. Here are the numbers for these two tonight;
Bosh 43 min 6-12 fg 10-11 ft 1 off reb 6 reb 1 ast 0 stl 0 blk 2 TO 22pts
Booz 49 min 7-14 fg 6-9 ft 0 offreb 11 reb 3 ast 1 stl 0 blk 1 TO 20 pts
I don't know that I would say that Bosh is playing at a higher level right now. Bosh is scoring more and at a better % but he is also getting more playing time. The sad part is Booz is playing better defense and rebounding much more. Booz is the #2 guy on the team and Bosh is #3 so Bosh will get a few more open looks.
I would say it is much cloer to being even. Bosh is not heads and shoulders better than Boozer right now.
Bargnani? I dont think a coach that is 100% defense would like to have one of the 5 worst defensive players in the league on his team.
Ive actually come to believe Boozer isnt Chicago's problem. They just need more so there isnt such a reliance on him. thats all.
Ray Allen was considered a below average defender before he got to boston. thibs system, along with playing alongside better defensive players such as pierce and garnet made allen able to hang Defensively with Kobe, the no 1 or 2 offensive SG in the league.
Bargnani has been playing out of position at C, with defensive stallwarts like chris bosh, amir johnson and rookie Ed Davis next to him, while receiving no perimiter help, from below average wing defenders and PG Calderon. with Noah guarding the best big, Deng on the best wing, rose limiting PG penetration and Thibs system and smarts bargnani should be fine, defensivly, and if he is getting killed taj gibson is on the bench
Also with the core of the team committed to defense bargs will have to buy in
Defense is all about system and effort.
if Chicago can be the No1 defensive team in the league with carlos boozer and kyle korver, they would be fine with bargnani, though Korver would probably have to go
people forget that both boozer and noah were almost never on the court together for this entire season... i think noah is good enough defensively to offset boozer, especially if ur playing against the heat as they only really have 1 talented big...
but if the bulls were to trrade boozer, what about iggy 4 boozer? seems like that would be a great pickup for the bulls, then just develop taj gibson...
I am not sure Boozer is tradeable at this point, (unless you want to give up a draft choice)
I think Chicago might be stuck with him!
and as a Jazz fan, this makes me happy!!!
Personally, I wasn't huge on getting Boozer. I felt that it was a waste of money to a degree, but it was also a sitatuion that if they didn't spend the money then it was going to be gone with Noahs extension kicking in. You are better off finding a good player to spend that money on then just not spending it and not having that extra guy that can play. People say Amare, but at that time everyone was waiting on Lebron, Wade and Bosh who everyone felt he was going to follow one of those two somewhere. I think Amare really wanted to be in NY and be the man or really to be the man wherever he went to. That's why he signed first of all the big names. I don't think Joe Johnson had the chance to become a real option for the Bulls. Atlanta blew him away with a ridiculous offer and to be honest, the way he typically shrinks in the playoffs, I'm not sure I would have pursued him, especially when having a front court player that could score was probably a bigger need.
Ultimately Bulls settled on Boozer. Former all star and 20-10 guy. In my opinion, it hasn't been until recently that they have gotten comfortable using him. When you have a big guy that can score you establish him early because not only can he try to get in a rhythm he can get other guys in the post in foul trouble (i.e., last night) and they become more active. When guys like that don't get the ball they tend to just stand around. You can still have a good defense even if you have a defensive liability starting. Look what Miami could do while often starting Bibby AND Z. I think they could replace Boozer with a lot of other 4s and be in great shape, but it's going to be hard to do. You're likely not going to get fair value for him. Besides give him another year and see what he can do. Most of these guys on the team should be better and will definitely benefit from another year together and with the coaching staff. People forget that this team drastically changed it's roster from last year to this year.They have to go out now and make smart moves to finalize the roster and to get them over the hump.
i totally agree with the mention that the bulls hit the panic button when none of the other big name fa sgined and they signed booz whos never played d anyhwere hes played and is a black hole in the post as for trading him good luck if they could some how get the raps too trade bargs and calderon for booz then imo the bulls would be insane not too do it
The Bulls made a good move in signing Boozer. He is less injury prone than $100M Amare (worse rebounding and defense) who has 2 terrible knees and who would actually want Joe Johnson for $126M? He might be good for 2 years but then he is going to hit the wall and the last 4 years will be UGLY. Boozer upgraded their low post offense and sure he has disappointed in the playoffs but that is also because Rose hasn't yet learned how to get him the ball in a position to score. Knowing Rose's work ethic, next season he should be a much better passer.
As for Boozer for Bargnani and Calderon, the Bulls would be getting an even softer big who is worse at defense and rebounding and a backup PG that would cost $10M a season. I do not see the move as an upgrade.
The bulls need to not overreact, keep building cohesiveness next season and use the 4 picks they have in the next 2 drafts to try and find an impact sixth man or trade for one. They are young and should not panic
and Bogans for stephen jackson and Ty Thomas
Rose - Jackson - Deng - Gibson - Noah
Watson - Korver - Brewer - Thomas - Asik
I actuallly have bought into the Iguodala idea. He would fit the Bulls nicely. If he and Deng play the 2 and 3, you would have an elite defensive combo on the wing, that can also fill it up on the other side. Maybe Boozer and Taj for Iggy and Brand? Maybe thats a reach but it makes sense to me.
Why is rose getting 30 shots a game, no point guard should be allowed to do that, Jordan did it, Sometimes Larry Legend did it, but they werent PGs, also his shooting % doesnt justify that,... Chicagos defense is top notch, on the offense is ... throw it to Derrick, maybe he makes a pass when attacking the basket...This makes a top tier team like Miami to focus on Rose and just make Chicago lose, fixing This should get Chicagos offense running fine, better than giving up on Booz.
On other thought, maybe Chicago is too offensively challenged...
shipargos- any suggestions? Who is he going to pass the ball to? The last two games, Deng and Boozer have put up the stats you would hope from them. The rest of the team has NO SCORING.
If i would be able to fix this, maybe i will be Thibs offensive assistant. LOL ;)
But, seriously, with the high number of offensive possesions Rose take, he should be averaging 13-14 dimes per game, he is not a pure point, we all know that, but He is better than Westbrook in that area. (Just wondering why is Grandpa JKidd destroying Him), and although Miami doesnt have a pure point but they have good ball movement and obvious offensive threats.
-Maybe Rose needs another good passer in the SG (this advice wont help right now)
-Maybe Booz and Deng numbers could increase a bit by adding good ball movement, like old Spurs and Utah jazz did in the past.
look at the last Detroit champions scoring ability
Billups < Rose
Hamilton>Any Chicago SG
Sheed similar to Booz
Wallace a bit less than Noah
And they won a championship... just my 2 cents
If Tyrus Thomas ever dons a Bulls uniform again, I will thumb my own eyes out.
Boozer has to be the first player in NBA history to have 27-16 in one game, 20-11 the next and people want him to get traded.
In all fairness
i wanted him to get traded about midway through the season. Carlos boozer has the most replaceable player type of any in the NBA. Undersized 6'9 PF with a post game. with the emphisis being place on length among the elite teams of the nba, that is more important. There are 20 or 30 guys who could play the same role boozer does on this chicago and previous utah teams
Some not quite as well yet, because they are younger and less pollished but they are pretty close include.
Paul Millsap, Dejaun Blair, Big Baby, Carl Landry, Luis scola, JJ hickson, Kris Humphries, david lee, and there are probably more people if given the opportunity to prove it.
Too bad Chicago didn't keep Lamarcus Aldridge
I was not a fan of the Bulls signing Boozer, but there aren't 20 or 30 guys who could do what he does. Big Baby, Blair, Humphries, and Landry won't be able to do what he does. Landry may be able to score like he does sometime, but he is a worse defender and rebounder, so he won't get the playing time. Boozer's game isn't super replaceable, but it isn't as valuable as the numbers suggest either, as his defense greatly hinders his efeectiveness, especially when he is backed up by a defensive whiz in Gibson.
The Bulls need a shooting guard who can create for himself and hit open jumpers. OJ Mayo fits that mold but not sure if the Grizz want to trade him. Jamal Crawford is a FA so if the Bulls have the $$ he might be a fit. J-Rich, if he is available, is another option.
Bargnani's 2011 Stats
Boozers Stat line,
So despite bargnani scoring more points, being better from the free throw line,and getting there more often. having the ability to hit 3s at an above average rate, and being a better shot blocker, you would rather have boozer?
And i believe Bargnani's FG% numbers would improve playing next to Derrick Rose
Bargnani and Calderon make less money combined then boozer, so why is this bad for chicago?
sorry about the formatting issue
Also if the bulls completed a bargs trade
They would have the combined sallary's of miles, brewer and korver to trade for a better 2 guard. they would also be better at scoring and space the floor better.
Depth Chart with
PG Rose SG Brewer/trade SF deng PF Bargnani C Noah
PG Calderon SG ? based on trade PF Gibson C thomas
calderon is just as good at shooting as Korver, but much better offensively then CJ miles at PG.