Tournament exposing bad officiating and bad rules
The one thing that has really stood out from this first weekend, other than the fact there is no clear cut favorite at this point and there couldn't possibly be more parity is that a lot of these games coming down the wire have been blown for obvious mistakes. Refs making terrible calls, and not being able to review balls tipped out of bounds makes no sense. The NCAA has implimented that stupid rule about if you touch someones face its automatically a flagrant, which they review all the time, but they can't review a tipped ball? They keep blatantly getting these calls wrong, and whats worse, I have seen the wrong official make the call way too much. In the Illinois/Miami game, there was a crucial tipped ball out of bounds in the final minute, that clearly was knocked out by Kadji on the baseline. The ref who was at the top of the key, who had a terrible angle on the play, decided to overrule the other ref and award Miami the ball. Its just bad. I've come to appreciate NBA officials a lot more this weekend.
Tipped ball in the Illinois-Miami game.
Charge call in the IowaSt-OhioSt game
Foul on the steal in the Indiana-Temple game
and a lot more. Not just ticky-tack calls but huge calls that changed the entire outcome. Oddly enough, the higher seed got the benefit of the call in each.
Not to mention some missed calls in the LaSalle game as well as the Marquette game.
I don't know what you're talking about. I can see what you're saying about the tipped ball during the miami illinois game, but Aaron Craft was clearly set and outside the restricted zone and there was a hell of a lot of contact when Khalif Wyatt stole the ball from Indiana. There are always going to missed calls during basketball, you'd think that intelligent basketball minds such as those on this site would understand and accept that.
I could be wrong here, and I think I agree that Craft was set, but I feel like the driving Cyclone player (Clyburn?) was pushed into Craft. I dunno. Either way, I don't think that that call was definitely correct, as people have been talking about it, including a few analysts who questioned the accuracy of the call.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, or that I'm right, but that there's room for discussion, and a considerable amount of opinion on the side of it being a blown call.
I dare you to watch that video and tell me Craft was completely set and still BEFORE Clyburn was in the air. Craft was still moving while Clyburn was in the air. He was not even set. Not to mention, even if you want to say it was a tie, tie goes as a blocking call.
As was stated before me, it's tough to say who's right or wrong but to say there is no discussion on this topic is completely ridiculous. Guess it takes an intelligent basketball mind to understand and accept that.
There's a difference between sparking debate and having discussion and outright stating that the refs are terrible and blatantly missed all of these calls which cost certain teams the game. I agree with the OP that refs should be able to review tipped balls that go ou of bounds. But your premise that this tournament has had terrible officiating because of Craft's charge (which was an extremely close call) and Khalif's foul on the steal (which was absolutely the right call). Missed calls have, are, and always will be a part of the game. Soundly beaing your opponent will overcome a missed call or two every time.
Exactly, I usually expect officiating's inconsistencies, but I just really came away from today think Iowa State and Illinois got robbed. That's tough to have to go home after losses like that.
I haven't seen enough of other games to make that kind of assesment but i'll tell you what...the charge is ruining basketball. Defenses get rewarded for getting beat off the dribble. Dudes flopping everywhere.
Refs getting sucked to the emotion of fan reaction to a charge. Look at Aaron Craft. Regardless to whether his foot was hovering on the line (which is f***ing stupid), his feet were clearly still moving. Does that even matter in a charging call now? College basketball already has enough issues with spacing that if you get in the hole, you better shoot a runner or pass because a layup is out of the question. I don't know how you fix it but something has got to give
The whole charge/block mess started last year with Kentucky. Calipari complained that his team had 4:1 more charges than the teams they play against. Sure, they went to the bucket off the dribble more often, but that couldn't explain everything. The charge/block call is in the NCAA game the way it is today because it allows unathletic players a chance to make a big play against ballers. It's two points removed, a foul AND a tournover...AND possible free throws? And all you have to do is jump in front of somebody. I say totally remove the charge call from the game. Allow more contact if a person is straight up going to the rim but it's ruined college basketball. It's just too dangerous the way that players can jump these days to have someone slide under you like that. Back when skinny white guys who had a 14 inch vertical took a charge I could see it not being a big deal. With the way people can leap these days it's going to give someone a broken neck. And the defense ALWAYS gets rewarded.
The clear-cut favorite is actually The Ville and the call at the end of Miami/Illinois was horrifically bad.
The Aaron Craft charge would have been a great no call situation. His feet where set, but the player was not out of control in anyway, and did not him hard enough for him to fall down. I think that situation is a good no call situation because neither of there actions were egregious enough to warrant a foul.
the calls go both ways....the college officials do a lot of make up calls. I cant exactly remember, but in one of yesterday's games there was a questionable charge call. I think it was Larkin was called for a charge that clearly wasnt a charge but Kenny Kadji set an illegal screen. Whoever it was, the ref made up the charge call because perhaps they were too late to call the illegal screen.
Hell, if you want to complain about the Kadji play... I thought NC State got jobbed when TJ Warren made a damn clean block on that layup. The excuse is always....it was lower body contact. I watched that replay over and over and I didnt see any lower body contact unless it was a slight graze of the hips. Damn. Thats incidental contact. Nothing you can do about it, but more importantly....it didnt effect the shot...thats what a non-foul truly represents. If he wouldve gotten him anywhere torso to torso, I wouldve agreed, but that call, I just didnt see. That call was nearly as critical as the Kadji call. I dont agree with those calls either. You should replay every damn thing.
I remember years ago when Duke was playing Florida in the Final Four I think or close to it...and the Florida player was going the length of the court for one last shot that could win it and he tried to avoid a player who flopped. It was a no-call at worst but they called a charge and that basically ended the game. I really dont agree with calls like that, that rob us of a possible spectacular finish, particularly when the contact is not severe.
the one thing I hate about the charge call is that any player can just jump in out of no where and try to take a charge when an offensive player is going towards the basket and it seems that the refs still call a charge... when really it should be a block... just like yesterday with craft
I am gonna say something that is likely to be widely unpopular....but the commentators seemed to be biased towards the Big 10. When I looked at that reply, which I saw twice (once from 2 different angles), that ball certainly looked like it went out on Illinois. Kenny Kadji definitely hit the ball, causing it to go on its path out of bounds, but from what I saw it grazed the hand of the Illini player. (cant remember who it was) The angles they showed were not from the perspective the ref had. Lundquist was definitely biased and Barkley said that the notion that the Big 10 is clearly better than any other conference in nonsense.
Meanwhile, the ACC has been getting &$#%#&@! on for years now. No respect whatsoever. I agree, the teams were mediocre this year but any excuse for a low seeding or to keep a bubble team out, the selection committee will. In the recent years, if VT wasnt getting reamed, it was Boston College. If you look back for the last 5-10 years of top 5 NCAA tourney snubs, VT is in every damn list...now how is that? This year is one of the first years in a while they didnt deserve to go. They last went in 07 and in 96 they were ranked all year and got a 9 seed. Granted they werent in the ACC then, but what did being in the ACC get them since they joined? One bid?
The Big East had a lot of good teams but had a lot of bad teams too, and while they would get like 7 or 8 teams in, most of the time the ACC would struggle to get 5 or 6 in. Lundquist seemed only to praise Miami for the sake of implying that Illinois was better or the Big 10 is soooo much more physical than the ACC.
I would like to see if someone has a video of the Kenny Kadji play because maybe I am wrong....I am just saying what it appeared to me...but I thought it was a subjective call. As far as the bias, it goes both ways, now with the addition of the other schools in the ACC, they will receive the benefit of the doubt of getting more teams seeded.
The ACC is a basketball conference with a rich history, but I think that history has carried them in the last few years, and I think that's the primary issue here.
If you go through the conference on a team-by-team basis, you have to admit the ACC has underwhelmed as a major conference.
Clemson under Purnell was middling, and was eliminated in the first round by an underdog a few years in a row.
Maryland, toward the end of the Williams era, faded as a program, and has yet to recover under Turgeon.
Wake has had a few coaching changes and has had the inconsistent play that comes with it.
Florida State had one good run within the past few years, but hasn't been anything special.
NC State has been a chronic underperformer, and this is coming from a fan of the program.
Miami, aside from their current success, has been mediocre at best.
Boston College has been good in the past, but not so much within the past few years.
I'm a fan of the ACC, but aside from Duke and UNC -- and really, UNC as a program has had some underwhelming seasons within the past decade or so -- the conference just lacks the overall strength of the Big East, Big 10, or even the Big 12.
I agree with you to a degree. The bias against the ACC was prevalent a few years ago. Several times they deserved to get 7 teams in but only got 5 while the Big East got 8...with over half of them going home within the first 2 rounds. In 09 the Big East and ACC both got 7 teams in. 3 of the #1 seeds were from the Big East and UNC ends up winning the tourney. VT couldve made it that year...and here is my issue. VT got snubbed once when they finished about 2 spots higher than the next team that got in from the ACC. GT got in with a losing conference record when Favors was there and I believe Wake got in that year while being .500. VT finished ahead of both of them and actually went 10-6 while GT had a losing record. My issue is...they dont give enough credit for conference play. It doesnt factor in a lot of times if you have a weak out of conference schedule. I admit their schedule is weak, but to go 10-6 in a power conference is nothing to sneeze at. Then going 9-7 while knocking off the #1 team in the nation in one of its last 3 games is not a small task either.
The argument is there is not enough room or seeds...like they said about Miami's #2 seed this year when they shouldve been a #1. In some cases....it needs to be some better consideration. This year, the ACC had parity but was actually weak, and UVA, MD, FSU did their own selves in. Some years it does have the overall strength but somebody always seems to get left out of the mix.
Let's be honest, strength a lot of times comes down to the eye test and the ACC rarely gets the benefit of the doubt.
Lastly, I am sure you have read how the ACC coaches felt the ACC was overlooked this year as far as snubs and seedings. Ironically....I believe outside of Miami not getting a 1 seed, this is one year the ACC got exactly what it deserved.
Sounds like an awful lot of whining to me.
why does it have to be whining? its factual. if you dont think bias exists....cool. I dont have stake in the ACC and not a fanboy like you d**kriding UK and feeling the need to defend Calipari every time someone makes a comment about him. difference between me and u....I dont get emotional.
Not emotional, and yet you took the time to insult me by calling me a...wait for it...'dick-riding fanboy' . Childish. Of course bias exists, and bias exists in your saying the ACC got snubbed. By whose metrics? Using what criteria? Do you have any information where I can read up further on the 'Surve Conference Snubbing Index'? Is it a proprietary algorithm like the BCS? I bet it is, and that's why Google didn't turn up anything.
childish.....right....people here know I dont start stuff around here. I made a comment about I wouldve like to see Randle go to another school and you come in there saying I should call him and tell him he made a bad decision and I knew more than his family and all that bull. I didnt even say anything bad about Randle or his decision. I knew it when you tried to defend UK in every post but when you came in trying to be sarcastic and rhetorical at the same time you showed your emotional tendencies. We are all fans here but I try to provide statistical information to support my theories rather than try to be a smart ass when someone makes a comment about a player or team that I like. Sorry, but that was my first impression of you.
in 2011 it was ridiculous that the Big East got 11 teams and the ACC got 4 (Clemson was a play in for the 12 seed) Ultimately UConn won...but dont go telling me Villanova, St. Johns and Marquette deserved to be in there that much more than BC and VT that year. Thats bull. For VT to get snubbed every single year shows its some sort of agenda at least towards them. They shouldve let them in at least once or twice just off the strength of them being a top team in the conference for several years straight. I am not saying let them in every year. If someone reading this didnt know better, they would think I am a VT fan but I am not. I just see that its wrong to not give a fair chance to some of these teams. Everyone wants to play and to constantly deny teams but let others who are no better in just because of the power of the conference is hypocritical. Again, its not about who does what once they get there, its about getting the opportunity. Thankfully that year VCU got their opportunity.
Hi, this is my first post on this website. I come here occasionally to check out mocks and articles. I saw this thread and had to register to comment.
The officiating in the tournament has been the worst in recent memory. The charge call on Iowa St. that Aaron Craft drew was bad for two reasons. First, while his heels were not touching the line and he got position in time (totally subjective), his heels were actually hovering over the line which breaks the imaginary barrier set by the charge circle under the hoop. Therefore, by rule that was a block no matter what. Second, if you watch the replay, the shooter was fouled by Thomas before contact was made with Craft. Both instances should result in a shooting foul.
This blown call however almost undoubtedly changed the outcome of the game and possibly the entire tournament. The other calls listed above in other posts are further proof of this years spotty officiating.
Also, as for the ACC getting "no love" and refs favoring the Big Ten, please rethink that statement as the big ten hasn't won a championship since 2000! The big ten was without a doubt the best conference this year so they deserved the most teams in the tournament.
My theory is that the NCAA wanted to show that four year players can win against the super athletes. And the charge call is the most powerful in the game. It's a turnover, a foul, and (sometimes) guaranteed points off the board and possibly free throws for the other team. You have a kid that can get to the rim at will. How do you nullify that? Get a slow ass kid with no skills that's been there for four years to run underneath him, pump his fist and get a charge. It's pathetic. I'm in favor of doing away with the charge completely if someone is just standing there and their whole defensive strategy is to let you run them over. There's no competitive spirit to getting someone's nuts on your face and then flailing to the ground.
Well, your obviously an ACC fan (but obviously there's no bias there in thinking the ACC got snubbed). Do you think the ACC is the only conference to ever feel slighted? What about the PAC-12, SEC or any other big-name conference? How closely do you follow how many teams from conferences other than the ACC that could've/should've gotten in? The Atlantic 10 had FOUR teams in this year. SEC, ACC, and every other god-forsaken conference could say they felt snubbed. Well, tough shit. You should play better out of conferences teams and win more games. If VT won 25 games a year then they'd be in. Seth Greenberg got fired for a reason.
they won 25 games in 2010 and went 10-6 in the conference and still didnt get in. so you obviously dont know what you are talking about. Greenberg got fired because he kept getting &$#%#&@! by the selection committee, year after year after year. yes I am an ACC fan, doesnt make my statements unqualified. I said they got in what they deserved this year....in this thread I was talking about bias. Not just against the ACC, but I mentioned them specifically and Barkley and others have spoken about the unnecessary hype of the Big 10...but you can clearly hear it in the commentary. Its more too it than playing out of conference schedules. Some teams play tougher OoC schedules and lose a lot of games. I am not saying VT deserved to get in every year but to deny a team every single year when obviously there arent 60 plus better teams is bullshit but you believe what you want to believe.
ACC* 364-188 .659
Big Ten 350-217 .617
Big East 286-178 .616
Pac-12 244-164 .598
Big 12 125-85 .595
* Leads all conferences with 24 Final Fours
I honestly think team/player's reputations are a big reason why some of these calls happen.
Ex: Aaron Craft is known for being an elite defender even though he hand checks a ton. So the refs see a close call involving him and he gets the benefit.
Louisville plays in the Big East, where they're able to get away with murder, but since they do, they're regarded as an elite defensive team. So they get into the tournament and refs are afraid to call them for fouls because to everyone in the Big East, it's just good defense when they handcheck players to the ground to knock the ball loose.
There was a call like this that happened in the Indiana game yesterday too where Oladipo got away with one, and I can't help but think that it's partly because he has such a reputation for being an elite defender. Refs don't realize they're doing it, but they give these guys and these teams the benefit because they think that because of who's wearing the jersey, it must just be a good defensive play.
machu46 is 100% right. Rough teams get away with it because...they just do