Toronto at #5.
What should the Raptors do at #5. Personally, I think they should target a small forward. They already have Jose Calderon, Jerryd Bayless, and DeMar DeRozan on the perimeter(Leandro Barbosa may not be there next year and may go back to playing overseas), and they got Ed Davis, and Andrea Bargnani at their power positions. But that small forward spot needs help. I'm thinking either Kawhi Leonard or Jan Vesely would be a good fit for them. Whats your take?
Vesley makes the most sense. I have no idea why they'd take Kemba with Bayless on board.
Championship team has height, defense and athlete ...vesely is everything plus a 3pts shot that can inmprove.
NBA ready and will shine in Zone defense and He ll be right away one of the top fast break player.
Unless knight fall ... VESELY VESELY VESELY !
Vessely has no business being our pick. He can't shoot at all and although he is a fantastic athlete, I'm more interested in getting an all around guy that can guard on the perimeter. Chris Singleton would be a perfect fit if we were drafting at the back of the lottery. Maybe Leonard makes the most sense here, although Kemba Walker will probably be the pick.
The Raptors badly need a center who provides size, toughness and rebounding, so Kanter would be the perfect fit but they obviously would have to trade up to be able to draft him and I doubt that this happens.
Vesley can't shoot, but makes up for some of the mistakes Bargs creates on offense. How do you complain about Vessley not being able to shoot then say you want Singleton or Leonard? I'd rather have an athletic 6'11 wing defender than a 6'7 one, if neither can shoot, and the mere chance that they play zone with 6'11, 6'11 and 7' int he frontcount has to be exciting for a team that can shoot like they can.
Sorry but I honestly dont see Kanter going any lower than #4 to the Cavaliers. And besides, what Bargnani doesnt do, Ed Davis(imo) DOES do.
I hope they trade down. I doubt they be able to move up to get kanter, knight or willams and i don't see any good value at 5 for the raps. Vesley feels like the next Yaroslav Korelev to me. They would have to trade caleron or bayless for kemba to make sense and there isn't much of a market for them. So like i said i hope the trade down to the late lottery or maybe lower and pick up some proven talent.
LOL you beat me to the punch. I was bout to say since I've heard Singleton being talked about for the Raptors, maybe they should either trade down or just hang on, see where he ends up, and maybe just BUY the pick from them. Sounds a little simpler to me. But then again, if they do that to get Singleton, I'm not sure if Leonard/Vesely would make much sense at #5. Just my opinion.
from a value standpoint, I totaly agree that Singleton later makes a zillion times more sense than Leonard or Vessely earlier. I never ever post trade ideas here cuz ultimately it seems like a waste of time, but something simple like #5 to Charlotte for #9 and #19 wouldn't be a bad idea if Charlotte has their eyes on someone in the top 5 range. Then the raps could get Singleton at 9 and best player on their board at 19.
I understand the point you're trying to make with Vessely's lack of shooting ability. But frankly, at 6'11, the only way he takes time away from Amir Johnson and Ed Davis is if he can hit an open shot or make his free throws, which he can't. Colangelo loves to have his rookie's thrown into the fire. There is no playing time for Vessely right now, and since he can't shoot, I don't see him playing on the wing. I don't see Colangelo making this pick.
Regarding Singleton and Leonard, although they aren't the worlds greatest shooters, they will both be able to rebound and guard their position, something the raptors have really never been able to do on the wing.
In all honesty, I don't see either of these guys having top 5 value. Again, Kemba Walker will probably be this pick simply from a value standpoint. I'd then expect Colangelo re-tool during the off-season as he normally loves to do.
one of the worst comparaison i heard. He has the potential to be a game changer with his lenght, motor and athleticism. Everybody saw the mavericks zone defense in the finals, vesely at 6''11 at the 3 is scary in a zone. its always a good idea to try to emulate championnship caliber teams, we need defense, intensity and you never have enought athlete in a team. With a slightly better 3pts shot, He would have been in converation for the top pick.
I disagree and think Vesley is a 3, but now at least I see your point MJ. Good counteragrument. I guess it comes down to "can Vesley guard the 3" and if he is a 3, do the Raps have enough floor spacing. Could they perhaps move the pick and Bargnani to get a team that makes more traditional sense?
and If singleton is picked anywhere in the mid-lottery (5-10) its going to be a big mistake. Jarred jeffries clone, even with probably a better 3pts shot wont be selected that high even in a garbage draft.
how are you comparing Jared Jefferies to Singleton. I don't see the similarities at all. That aside, if you are not a top 5 pick and you can guard your position effectively in this league, you are not a bust. You are contributor to team success. There are only so many potential superstars. At the end of the day, the gms are hoping that most of their kids end up being contributors. I don't think that anyone ever thought that Jared Jefferies would be a star in the league, accept maybe Jared Jefferies.
and they make this pick, the raptors are 6'10 and bigger at their 3,4,5. It certainly makes for some nice matchup problems. But Vessely would have to be able to guard his position, cuz their help defense is so weak, especially with Bargnani in the middle.
So it's going to depend on what the scouting reports for the Raps tell them about Jan. I've been reading he's a 3 and athletic enough, but I'm nowhere near qualified to make that call.
Totally agree. At the end of the day, they've seen everyone play. It seems like just yesterday that I'd have a heart attack every year on draft nite cuz we'd have to put our faith in Babcock or Grunwald. At the very least, Colangelo is steady.
Jared isn't good. If he could rebound half as well as he defends, he'd be good. As is? Meh. I've never been less confident in an open player 3 feet from the basket.
I am hoping BC would do some trades to get rid of Calderon, Barbosa, Kleiza and Bargnani while getting picks in return. The Raptors need to rebuild and we don't need them in a rebuilding situation.
We need to take the BPA at #5. We need a PG that can create for himself and others (Calderon can't create much for himself while Bayless can't create for others, and too bad we can't just combine them.) We also need a true C that actually plays D (Ed Davis, Amir, and Bargnani are all PFs).
The Raptors should target:
PG: Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker
C: Jonas Valanciunas, Bismack Biyombo, Enes Kanter
SF is a shaky spot with only James Johnson and Kleiza, but I would target the SF in the 2012 draft. There are a lot of good SF prospects like Harrison Barnes (SF), Perry Jones (SF/PF), Anthony Davis (SF/PF), James McAdoo (SF/PF), Michael Gilchrist (SF), etc. The Raptors is almost a lock to get a high pick next year.
The SF spot is very weak in this draft. Although Vesely is listed as SF/PF, I see him more of a PF. He's usually compared to AK47 and AK47 was at his best when he played at PF (before Boozer took the PF spot and forced AK47 to play SF).
I am not too sold on taking Leonard at #5. If we have a pick after #9, then I would consider taking Leonard.
the thing is there is a good diffrence in potential and athleticism between vesely and singleton. Yes singleton is a good athlete for his size but Jan is a freak of nature athlete. There game are similar (singleton better defensively and jan offensively) but at the end of the day you draft on better potential and future impact. Vesely wont be nowitzky but an AK47 type of player is what raps need right now.
Jan, Bargani, Deroazan, Ed Davis, and Calderon/Bayless... with a zone, could that compete in the East? Maybe for a final playoff spot. Being middling won't help. Deroazan and Davis are keepers, everyone else can go, though they should give Bayless a real shot first. Jan might not be ready now, but on potential, even if he's a stopper off the bench who brings insane energy to both forward spots... what's really a better option? besides trading down, that is.
I'm not sold at Leonard at 5 either, but at the very least, in a weak draft, he fills a need. I don't see Colangelo taking Valanciunas. Although he clearly likes the international players, I don't think he's ever taken a player without knowing that they're coming to play now. I think that would be a waste of a pick for him, especially since he's no sure thing.
I don't think I like the Biyombo pick either. Until one all-star game where he posted a triple double, noone ever really talked about the guy. He's way too raw to be drafted at 5.
Regarding Kanter, I'd be shocked if he were available.
At the end of the day, the raptors will take who they think is the best player available; in this draft their will be quick fix at #5. Better luck next year!!
It's really a shame that Valanciunas isn't likely to be around, I'd have him as the best possible option for Toronto, but it seems like his contract situation is going to make things difficult. C is their biggest hole, and as has been mentioned, SFs aplenty next season, even if they improve and get a late lottery pick they should be able to nab someone special at the 3 spot.
If Jonas isn't available, then Vesely is my pick too. Give Bayless a full season to start, he has all the potential in the world, including a strong mind, just needs to be given that chance, certainly over Kemba Walker at least.
Is Andrea Bargnani in constant trade talks or something?? Whats with all this sudden talk of Valanciunas being the top choice at #5? Raptors already have a pretty good frontline, sorry but I just dont get it. I mean, if their talking about moving Bargnani, then I can understand it.
Agreed with us waiting till next draft for a legitimate SF, I feel like Vesely isn't the answer for us Raptor fans. Him and DeRozan as our wings would be athletic but would be extremely lacking an outside shooting threat. Plus, he's a tweener, with an already loaded PF spot I feel like being patient will pay off for us, I'm fine with James Johnson & Kleiza as our SF next year (Unless we get a legitimate starting SF through trades).
I strongly get the feeling Kemba Walker will be our pick in this years draft (That is unless Knight or Kanter fall), I just don't know how BC is going to handle trades for our PG's, Calderon leaving would be the 1st option but Bayless lacks experience so I guess we will see in the future.
Raptors better pray Brandon Knight falls to them like Ed Davis fell to them with the 13th pick.
I am not sold on Vesely because i dont believe he has the lateral quicks and the shot to spread the floor out like a 3 should. demar derozan already starting 2 and his shot is ditll a work on progress. if they take Vesely then the perimter shooting would be subpar.
Bargnani is a natural 4, so drafting a defensive minded C in the mould of Tyson Chandler with Valanciunas would be the perfect fit against a finess PF like Dirk in Bargnani. Davis isn't ready to be a full-time starter, and it's too soon to give up on Bargnani just yet, he simply need the right frontline partner.
Valanciunas would be the best partner in this draft, even above Kanter, simply because they need a defender first and foremost.
Personally i think the Raptors should try and trade up for either 2 or 4 spots to with the 5th pick nd trade someone like calderon/ barbosa/ bargnani so you could target either Enes Kanter for the 5 and then you have ed davis nd amir at the 4 or Brandon Knight and have Bayless off the bench.
Then look for 5/3 during free agency OR wait 'til 2012 draft.
just my two cents.
I don't see how the Raptors have enough to move up in this draft.
All that matters is getting the best talent.
Unless Bargnani finds god, gets brainwashed, or gets abducted by aliens, he is unlikely to change too much at this point. We're rebuilding, we shouldn't care about positions.
The problem is that the raptors have Pick #5 in a 4 man draft. Picks 5-14 are all pretty similar in terms of potential (except for morris brothers, who I don't think have much upside)..... We need to trade up, otherwise we're really just rolling the dice anyway.
I think Valanciunus would be a good choice in that case. Kemba definitely has talent. Veseley... who the hell knows, he's athletic as hell, so there's a chance. But shiiieeet, is he really any better than Jeremy Tyler?
Young guys who are assets: DeRozan, Bayless, Ed Davis, Amir, maybe Weems. Go ahead and take an axe to the rest of the team.