Alot of people think Jeremy Lamb is the clearcut top SG in this years potential draft class. I think it is wide open. With Lamb, Ross, Beal, Rivers, and Waiters all playing at a high level this year has a good crop of SG's. All of those players have a case for a lottery selection, and I think with Uconn strugling like they have and Lambs lack of dominance and willigness to lead that team some expectations should be re-evaluated.
To me Rivers has no cieling to his offensive game and is the best pure scorer. With increased playmaking abillity whos to say he cant play the pointgaurd position as well. He also has the purest jumper and a superstars mentallity.
Beal has not been himself this year and is really struggling with his "pure shot" we were expecting to see him display. Same thing happened with Barnes last year so I would let that slide. beal is a much more improved athlete and contributes all over the floor in every aspect of the game. he really is the most complete 2 gaurd in this draft.
Waiters seems like a poor mans Dwayne Wade, which is still very good. he uses his body and strength very well, and has a good outside shot with good shot creating abillity. He is a fierce competitor who steps up when his team needs a bucket and seems to have a killer instinct.
Lamb and Ross are guys with all the athletisism and skills you look for in a SG yet seem to be lacking a dominant presence. Also they both have huge ball handling issues which will limit them much more at the NBA level. Not saying they are the same player, although they have the same weaknesses.
To me none of these players are NBA ready and all of them need another year of NBA basketball to make sure they dont ruin their confidence by failing to improve against superior professional players. Rivers, Lamb, and Ross have 20-ppg plus NBA potential but need to work some things out.
What is your take on these 5 prospects, who are your Top 5 longterm prospects, and do you think any should stay back for another year? If so which ones?
Lamb is nice but Rivers is quicker off the dribble. Rivers will live on the foul line.
Personally, I'd include Barton in any discussion of SG prospects. With his athleticism, length, scoring ability and rebounding I'd put him as the 5th best prospect.
However, I'll give a quick rundown of my thoughts on these guys.
Rivers strikes me as an extremely talented player, but also very ball-dominant. That said, he has improved his play off the ball and be a first option without being a black hole at the guard spot. I think he should come out this year, simply because he'll learn more from playing in the NBA and I think he's learned enough from Coach K to come out. He's already playing at a fairly high level in college so I can't see him making a big improvement in his second year, which might hurt his stock.
Lamb is never going to be a franchise player, I'll state that right off the bat. He's very skilled, has great length and versatility, but he is optimally suited as a second option at the next level, ideally placed next to a big man who can draw double teams. Also, he has a severe lack of leadership capability. He should come out now while he's still young because UConn is a disaster area with Calhoun hurt and a possible 2013 tournament ineligibility.
Ross I think is a bit raw right now, but has that killer instinct you want in a player. Against UCLA recently he went on a scoring tear to win them the game in the 4th. He was clutch as all hell and his handle isn't so bad that it won't improve. Like Lamb I think he should be paired with a scoring PF/C or a PG who can command a lot of attention, because while he's clutch and a good shooter, I don't see him having the ability to be an efficient scoring threat over four quarters at the next level as the first option. Pairing him with Kyrie would be perfect in my opinion, and Cleveland would be a great fit for Ross.
Beal I've only seen play a couple of times, but he seemed to get his shot blocked in the paint a fair bit and strikes me as mainly a jump shooter at the next level. He's a very sound player, but I don't see star potential in his game. I think he should stay one more year in college.
As far as Waiters is concerned, I haven't watched him play so I can't comment.
Of the five I have seen (Barton, Rivers, Beal, Lamb, Ross), I think Rivers and arguably Barton are the only ones who could be first options on winning teams later in their careers, and that Lamb, Ross and Beal are all very close to each other in upside, skill-set and mentality.
I never saw Ray Allen in Eric Gordon ....
Rivers is gonna fit perfectly in the NBA
Also I never thought Jeremy Lamb was a top 3 pick kind of guy
Ross reminds me of Wesley Johnson,A guy that can dunk and shoot a open 3 .but nothing in the in between,Kinda like a oreo without the cream
Waiters does kinda remind me of a under the rim Wade, but this guy really shouldnt be in the conversation with Rivers,Lamb,Beal and Ross
The order I would take these sg's in a draft would be like this
Is Ross more of a SG or a SF. This site lists him as a SG, yet he is compared to 2 SF's. (Wes Johnson and Dorrell Wright) He plays the 3 with Washington while Wroten plays the 2 and Gaddy at the point. So is he more a 3 or a 2?
As long as we are talking aout 2 guards there's someone else that we should be talking about although many consider him a PG, Tony Wroten, plays for the same team as Ross. Many may consider him a point, I however consider him more of a 2 guard in the mold of Tyreke Evans.
Why does no one talk about Will Barton?
I want to say Rivers,because of his one on one ability, but I think Brad Beal is going to become really good down the road.
Will Barton probally shouldnt have been left out although Memphis has such an easy schedule. The best win they have is against Xavier by 4 points. Barton only went for 13 with 13 shots on that game.
Now I understand that Memphis has won games and deserves credit, I am as big a Will Barton fan as anyone and Im ruiting for Memphis as my blacksheep this year in the tournament but before I rank him with these 5 I want to see him prove it against some talent, and win in the process.
And hold up, wait a minute, slow down, dont wait on Waiters. Ha. Seriously though Waiters deserves to be mentioned as a Top 5 SG as much as anyone else in the Nation.
Terrence Ross. Uncanny ability to create his own shot on the bounce. Something you can't really teach. Once he refines his handles, then the man will not be able to be tamed, not unike Miley Cyrus.
Brad Beal and it's not even close IMO. He's an amazing defender and rebounder for his size, has all the intangibles, and has great range. If he gets any mid range game he's going to be amazing.
- Also Doron Lamb has to be on this list, I know he's more of a combo guard but I see him coming off the bench as an undersized SG and having a Lou Williams type impact in his career.
What shot does Terrance get off the Bounce.? A one dribble pull up and thats about it.
Bottom line is The draft is all about potential which all these guys have a high ceiling for.Ross would probably be considered the one with the highest potential because his size is great and he jumps and runs out of the gym.Along with a solid jump shot. Probably all these kids will come out this year.The last to get solected maybe will be Dion. The first one Rivers.
Rivers is the best shooting guard in my opinion and a true superstar at all levels. The kid is a winner and wants the ball in the closing minutes of games. I do not believe he is even close to his potential yet, especially in the passing game/drive and dish abilities.
Terrence Ross has an unbelievable upside. He is raw as others have mentioned, but in 2 years, he may be the best SG that comes out of this draft with the exception of possibly Rivers. His ball handling is sufficient at the next level because of his athleticism. He can dribble and pull-up very well along with catching and shooting. His high arching shot has great rotation and allows him to take 1 or 2 dribbles and not get blocked, mostly because if you play up on him he will take 3 dribbles and get by you to the rim. He is also an unbelievable rebounder for a 2 guard, but can play SF as well.
I think it really depends where the team that's drafting is headed.
I think Rivers is the surest bet to, at the very least, be a guy who can put up big time scoring numbers on bad teams. He's not the best of these guys in college because he's not great at playing with/off others, but in a wide open NBA game with more shots and more chances to go 1 on 1, I think he will thrive statistically. Whether he will become a long term answer at the 2 for a team wanting to win a championship is another discussion, that's where his major flaws-attitude, selfishness, ball dominance-start becoming bigger question marks.
I'd recommend Rivers to a team like Charlotte because they simply need firepower and he could easily be a 20 ppg scorer there, although they'd still be terrible. But a team like Minnesota that is on the rise and wants to keep building chemistry may be better off with Lamb or Beal, who can both catch and shoot and play off others efficiently.
I mostly agree with you about Rivers, but lets throw this into the discussion:
If Duke had a true distributing PG and Rivers was able to play off the ball more and not have to isolate and score 1 on 1, do you believe that he would still need the ball in his hands?
The kid just likes to score no doubt but in the NBA they will set him up for easier shots than what he currently takes at Duke. I am not of the opinion that he needs the ball in his hands, but more that he simply likes to score (most young kids do). He has a good upbringing and pedigree and I don't believe he will be as selfish as you think in the NBA. I think he would be fine on a team like the Cavs because he and Irving would feed off each other, but I do have some concerns with team chemistry like u said. Byron Scott would bench him if he didn't play his way and I trust in his ability to groom young players.
I'm still taking J.Lamb for a few reasons:
- Along with Rivers, he has the most potential as a scorer. Rivers has the best one-on-one ability, but he has simply lacks a left hand. Lamb is longer, has more bounce, and is the better defender. His jumper is picture perfect, and will have no problem getting it off at the next level. His handle is much improved (contrary to some people's opinion) and his shot-creating ability is no longer a weakness...the only thing holding him backin that regard is his lack of bulk/strength. Aside from adding weight, he needs to improve his passing, but I see little reason he won't be a great scorer (and a very-solid defender) at the next level.
- I am also higher on Rivers than most. He has a standout scoring arsenal, and has the mentality to translate that skill to the next level. If he works on correcting his right-hand dominance, he should be a high-level scorer. I have some concern about how much he'll contribute outside of scoring, but I think his time at Duke has helped him somewhat in that sense (rather than going to a school which gave him the green light).
- Beal has the least amount of glaring weaknesses, but has less standout strengths. His reported "Ray Allen-like" stroke hasn't been consistent, to say the least. His off the dribble ability hasn't been on display much on a guard-heavy UF roster. It wouldn't surprise me if he became the most well-rounded player of the bunch.
- Ross has similarly great physical tools as J.Lamb, but has less polish.
- Waiters is a guy who has jumped onto the radar in a big way, of late. With his defensive playmaking ability, strong build, comfort handling the ball. He may be the most difficult to project, as I can see a team falling in love with him as a prospect, and picking him higher than we expect.
***So although I have J.Lamb first, Rivers and Beal aren't far behind. I like Ross as well, but I'm not sure how ready he is to consistently create shots yet.
- I also like quite a few other SGs in this class. Jenkins and D.Lamb look the part of niche shooters/instant offense guys at the next level. Barton has the motor, length and athleticism to make an impact.
I have watched all these guys play and out of all the guys listed the SG I have been most impressed with after watching him play is Will Barton who isn't even on the list. Barton is quite an athlete whose motor never stops. I can't remenber the last guard I watched that has that big an impact on the game because of his motor and rebounding. Barton plays like a stray dogs with rabi's who just keeps attacking. He has good handles for a SG which allow him to get into the lane at will at which point his athleticism and length allow him to finish. And despite his narrow frame Barton finishes a high number of shots at the rim. I can see him becoming a Larry Hughes type player easily and I think he might be just as good a prospect as Alec Burks was who I was also high on.
I still think Beal might be the best pure SG prospect in the nation. His shot hasn't been falling and he still has been able to score at a high level. I'm not worried about his shot though I do find it alarming that he is missing so many. But this guy was lights out throughout his whole prep career. He shot over 50% from 3 in high school. He shot over 65% from the floor in general in high school despite 35% of his shots being 3's. He also owns a picture perfect release. I watched a few of his games where he couldn't buy a basket from beyond the arc but every time he shot the ball it looked like it was going in. There is nothign wrong with his shot I think it's more of a comfort thing. He was the MVP of the U17 World Championships games and leading scorer on a team that included Rivers.
I do like Rivers a lot too tho and wouldn't be surprised if he went as high as 5 because he has the talent to do so.
Lamb was my pick for NPOTY coming into the season. But his play has been disapointing to say the least. He still owns a 7 foot wingpsan and a great stroke from outside so their is hope but I jumped off his wagon after he failed to lead his team to any wins.
Terrence Ross was overhyped coming into the year but he's playing very good. His development is right on track. What I like most about Ross is that he has NBA ready moves already that he uses in college when he don't have too. He takes a lot of pull up off balances shots that you sometimes need to take in the NBA but rarely ever have to perform in college. He may be the most athletic guy on this chart too and I see him as more of a SG then SF because of his small wingspan which was measured as 6'7.
Dion Waiters is a poor man's Dejuan Wagner. He's always been a scorer extraordinaire. He;s most likely going to enter this years draft because his family needs help but I don't ever see him becoming a great starter. I think he can have a long career as a change of pace combo guard off the bench whose relied on for scoring and defense.
John Jenkins and Doron Lamb both have the ability to become a Jodie Meeks like threat in the league atleast. I'm not too sure how high their ceiling is tho. I would have loved to see Jenkins go off against Kentucky but he didn't and Taylor was left taking the clutch shots. I think they both should stay in school and become more dominant scorers remenber Meeks dropped 54 on Tenn his JR year.
I always wondered where Meeks would of been drafted if he stayed for his SR. year and started alongside John Wall. I think Meeks would of worked his way into the middle of the 1st round because he would of most likely continuted to lead the team in scoring and Kentucky would of dominated with Wall and Meeks in the backcourt together in college.
Poor mans Dajuan Wagner? Stop it dude hes better at everything than him I cant believe somebody referred to him as "below the rim" when he is almost certainly more athletic than any other of the mentioned Sg's. Lamb is a beast definitely the best of the bunch.
Even when tons of poeple were down on Rivers, I always knew he was going to end up being a star and he was going to have a huge game that put him back on the map in terms of NBA talk. His first step is insane and I love the elevation and high release he has on his jumper. It's almost unblockable. Also, he definitely has NBA range but he also has a great floater. I love his offensive potential and once he improves his left-handed finishing (which is already better) and his passing on the drive (again, already better), he could be great. His defense is good now (he shut down Barnes in the 1st half), and he has proven he has what it takes to be good in the NBA. I would love to see him on the Bulls with Rose, as that would be an amazing tandem for a long time.
What exactly is Dion Waiters better at then Dejuan Wagner? Do you realize Wagner averaged 20 as a freshman and went on to become the 6th pick in the draft, then averaged 13 a game his rookie year all before age 21. Waiters is already 21. Waiters won't be the 6th pick in the draft and Waiters won't average 13 a game as a rookie.
When Waiters was playing high school everybody compared him to another Dejuan Wagner because of his size, build and scoring abilities, only everybody understand he wasn't as good as Wags was in high school. Dejuan Wagner was a legend in high school and he was before he dropped 100 points in one high school game.
@ Mr. 19134 - I don't see how you can call TR overhyped when there isn't a scout out there that has/had him rated higher than Beal, Rivers or Lamb going into the year. He is right where he should be on the list. His upside is as good as anyone at the position. He is simply a raw talent right now and around 2 years of NBA play from reaching his potential. You put him on a team where he doesn't have to take off-balance shots and create by himself and he will mature/develop at a perfect pace to explode in the NBA by year 3. Lets also not forget how good of a rebounder he is at the SG spot.
There are no guarantees that any player will continue to develop at the next level as there have been many college "stars" that haven't made it, but if he does, he is as good as anyone in this draft - bit more of a risk than Lamb/Beal for sure though.
I've watched some fo Duke, and I really like Rivers. I feel that he may be a Point more so than an off guard in the NBA, but either way, he has the ability to take his man off the dribble and get to the rim at will, as well as having a silky smooth stroke. I really like what he brings to a team that drafts him.
Waiters is 5 times the prospect wagner was. Wagner was a one trick pony gunner Waiters is way more physical way better at getting to the rim and distributing and leads the nation in steals/100 possessions. On top of that he is far more athletic and has at least 1 highlight reel dunk almost every game. Comparing him to Wagner is one thing, calling him a poor mans Wagner means you think hell be out of the league in a year and that is just a slap in the face.
it is a wide open race man. even tho lamb is top for me.
i would say this is a sg draft. i mean you got really good prospects.
lamb, rivers, beal, ross, barton, lamb. you got
jenkings, which im sold on, averaging 20 since his sophomore year, underrated. altho he cant do much outside of scoring, he can do it well. best 3 pt shooter
"Will Barton probally shouldnt have been left out although Memphis has such an easy schedule."
What? There out of Conference Schedule has been brutal. They haven't won many, but they've played a lot of good teams and their SOS is like 14th in the country.