Top PG prospect
6-2 190 pounds, fast in the open court, get to the lane anytime, streaky mid ranger shooter, poor 3 point shooter.
Averaging: 9.8 PPG, 4.7 APG, 2.6 REB, 2.8 Turnovers
Last 5 games: 8.8 PPG, 5.8 APG, 2.2 RPG, 2.2 Turnovers per.
Doesn't look like big time player stats(He was rated top PG in the country coming out) but he is getting better as evidence of his last two games:
VS #7 Florida: 12pts,10ast,3rebs,5TO's 4-6 FG(66%) 2-3 3pt FG(66%)
Vs Vanderbilt: 13pts,8ast,4rebs,1TO 6-12 FG(50%) 0-3 3pt FG
Keep in mind he plays for the top team in the country with 4 other high draft picks(Davis,MKG,Lamb,Jones) and a secound round pick in Miller.
His numbers are still a tad dissapointing giving his background and athletic ability, but I think he is the top prospect in this draft class far as PG's go.
While I don't think he's as talented as his brother(Jeff Teague) I do think he could be a solid guard down the road and possibly pretty good because his game may translate more towards the wide open NBA game.
Who is your top PG prospect?
Tony Wroten is the top PG prospect in my eyes. He has the best combination of uncanny passing ability and great court vision combined with a knack for scoring.
Although with that said I think Scott Machado is the best pure PG in the nation. He can deal the points or get them himself. He also has a very nice outside shot.
I like Scott Machado, he has great passing ability, can shoot and rebounds very well for a guard. He had a triple-double yesterday against Marist. I would put Myck Kabango second. I think he needs another year at Texas, but I think he has the talent and the work ethic to be a very good PG in the NBA.
I'm not sure about the best, Tony Wroten, Marquis Teague, Kendall Marshall, even Machado are in the discussion. But as far as underrated prospects, Tu Holloway from Xavier should be in the conversation.
His numbers have dipped a bit from last year, but his minutes are also down, as is his usage rate. And essentially playing on a team of scrubs (besides a decent player, Mark Lyons, next to him in the backcourt), and being expected to take the reigns, as a point guard, will wear you down.
His turnovers are actually down, and his assist/TO ratio has improved every year, even after his impressive year, as a JR, last season; and anyone who has heard of the kid, knows he can score.
I see Wroten as more of a Tyreke Evans type player, while he does have great vision, he really doesn't facilitate, he can't run a team, he's averaging 3.5 assist to 4.0 turnovers definetly not anywhere close to being a "PG".
Check out the stats as well.
Tyreke Evans Memphis:
3.5 TO's per
Tony Wroten Washington:
4.0 TO's per
Both have sick ball handling,Wrotens vision is more superior, but Reke has good vision, big guards,who can't facilitate.
I think Wroten will play more off the ball than the ball in the NBA.
I doubt any NBA GM thinks Machado is the top prospect far as PG's go, while he is having a great year the competition level he's playing against isn't all that great, I will wait til tournament time to speak on him tho.
Kabongo is playing decent for a struggling Texas team, I don't think he is the 2nd best guard prospect I think I would take Damian Lillard over him.
Hell I think I'd take Damian Lillard over all the PG's in the draft besides maybe, MAYBE Teague.
I think Kendall Marshall is the best option this year. He's the rare point guard that the coach can completely leave alone because most of the time he sees the play developing before anyone else. He also seems like a great kid. He's not the quickest, but he's very hard to stay in front of. Knows how to get his defender off balance then blow by him. I don't think he'll fail at the next level. Just needs to keep shoring up the jumper.
I also agree that Kabongo could use another year, but will be a guy to keep an eye on. Charismatic leader and competitor.
i think marshall's game is taylor made for the nba. if your team already got scorers marshall is your best bet
I think Marshall is Rondo without elite athleticism, which means I don't think he will be that good in the NBA, he can't score or shoot, and without that blow by speed how will he be able to get into the lane at the next level and create? While most players compensate something to make up for their lack of speed or quickness, Marhshall can't shoot, nor is he strong(6-4 195) so he won't be overpowering anyone to get into the lane.
I do think he will be a solid playmaker in the league, but nothing special.
I watched Tyreke Evan's grow up and he was never really a PG. He was always a scoring guard who had such crazy handles that he would play PG because nobody would be able to take the ball from him. But he played just like Iverson in high school. He would dribble the ball up the court, then break down the defense for his own shot. He never was great at getting other teamates involved and running an offense.
The big difference I see between Wroten and Evans is the chances they got. Evans is a better player and a way better scorer then Wroten, but if Wroten went to a college team that allowed him to run the show like Evans was allowed to do at Memphis, then I think Wroten's draft prospects would be sky high right now and heres why. Wroten has great court vision and passing ability. His assists numbers and turnover's are high because he is looked at to score at Washington not facilitate. He has a ton of passes that became turnovers because he can set teammates up from the most unconventional angles and his teammates just aren't ready for the passes. His numbers could easily be 5 apg and 3 t.o.'s right now.
If Gaddy wasn't on Washington I just feel like Wroten would be the unanimous best PG propsect in this draft if he was allowed to run Washington's offense by himself.
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I think Marshall is actually going to struggle a bit, in the NBA. Unless he can vastly improve his scoring/shooting in the next year or two. I understand that his scoring usage rate is low (he only averages 5 and a half shot attempts a game) but his free throw rate is also low, and on top of that, he's not a great ft shooter, anyway.
The best comparison in this manner, that you could use, is Rondo, but Marshall is nowhere near Rondo's equivalent on the defensive end, or athletically (which allows Rondo to get away with his poor shooting abilities).
But just as you can see, when Rondo struggles, as do the Celtics.
I still don't think Wroten is a PG, more evidence for concern is he only averaged 4 assist per game as well in highschool, you got players like Eric Bledsoe who averaged 12 per in HS, I mean maybe I might be wrong, but I think Wroten is a 2guard with great vision.
@YoungDave, I'm not saying you're wrong to think that way because you're right in saying the numbers don't back up my statements and this is why exactly Wroten isn't in the lotto on any mock drafts.
But I wish I knew how to post videos, i posted the link, this guy swishscout got some great scouting videos on youtube, and he put together a 3 minute montage on Wroten's passing ability. It's a great video because it shows you his good and bad, it shows you how many great passes he made that turned into turnovers or the times he set up his teammates with great looks and they just missed. I really started to like Wroten after watching him in the Nike Hoops Summit playing with other great players his age group he looked great facilitating.
The PG position is a very cerebral position and that's why I like Wroten as a PG prospect because he views himself as a PG and wants to be a great one. Look at this interview with him, it shows you a great deal of how he views himself as a player.
Nike Hoop Summit Player Profile: Tony Wroten
Tony Wroten provided a spark off the bench for the USA in the 2010 FIBA U17 World Championship, scoring 13 points in the gold medal victory over Poland.
USA Basketball Photos
As a member of the inaugural USA Basketball Men’s U17 World Championship Team, Tony Wroten contributed 8.4 points, 4.3 assists and 3.5 steals in just 20.3 minutes per game to help the USA to an 8-0 record and a gold medal at the 2010 FIBA U17 World Championship in Germany.
On April 9, the 6’5” guard from Garfield High School in Seattle, Wash., will be back in a USA jersey looking for another win, this time against the World Select Team in the 2011 Nike Hoop Summit at the Rose Garden in Portland, Ore.
With Wroten and Garfield taking home the KingCo 4A Conference title Feb. 18, next on the horizon for the young star is the Washington Class 4A state playoffs, which begin Feb. 25.
Recently, Wroten took a few minutes of his time to talk with USABasketball.com about his experiences in a USA jersey and what he expects to face in the 2011 Nike Hoop Summit.
Are you looking forward to reconnecting with your USA teammates?
Oh yeah. I keep in contact with all of them. I talk to them about once a week, and a few I talk to everyday. We’ve been talking about it, and we can’t wait to get back together and play on the same team and just be around each other. Being in Germany, all we had was ourselves, so we got a chance to build great relationships and become close friends. Now, it’s like we’ve been playing together for years because we got a great bond. I just can’t wait to get back on the court and play with them again.
We were like a family. We all come from different states and different places throughout the country, but once you play for USA Basketball, it’s like we are all one. That’s one thing I love about playing for USA Basketball.
What was the biggest challenge you encountered while playing international basketball?
I would say being outside the country and out of our comfort zone was the biggest challenge we had. Different food and different language in Germany, and we just had to adapt. We had a family, and we were hoping for first, but once we realized that if we all kept to ourselves it would be so much harder to adapt, then we did so much better. That was the biggest thing.
What do you expect to face from the World Team in the 2011 Nike Hoop Summit?
I expect to play against the best-of-the-best. There is a lot of talent in this world, not just in the country, so I expect to play against some great talent. It will be a great game – can’t wait for it.
What do you think of international rules? Is there an international rule you’d like to see the high school game adopt?
At first it’s tough, different ball and different rules, but it was fun. It’s not the same game that we play every day, so for me to change and be able to play under different rules was exciting.
I’d like to be able to knock the ball off the cylinder in high school games. That was pretty fun. There were a lot of baskets other teams could have had, but we hit them out.
What made Washington a good fit for you?
I wanted to go to a great school academically, with a great coaching staff. I wanted to stay home and play for the University of Washington and coach Romar.
What is your favorite training routine or drill?
When the basketball is in my hands, I really enjoy every drill. I love the game of basketball, so I couldn’t narrow it down to just one drill I like to do. I love it all.
What is your least favorite training routine or drill?
I really hate lifting because it’s not like when you have a basketball in your hand and you have a lot of motivation. You have to find your motivation from the inside.
Where is the most room for improvement in your game?
Oh, I can say everywhere. I’m not perfect, so I definitely would say everywhere. If I had to chose one thing, though, I’d say being more of a leader on the court.
Who do you most like to be compared to?
Chris Paul, Derrick Rose or Jay Williams because they are all great point guards who get everybody involved. I’m a pass-first type of player, so I can relate to that.
What helps you stay motivated?
I come from the ghetto and my mom and my family mean the world to me, so I want to have them be able to live a great life. I’m working for them; that’s my motivation.
How would you like to finish your high school season?
We just won KingCo semifinals, and we are in the playoffs. I think we can win state as long as we keep playing like we are now.
Last year, I tore my ACL and wasn’t playing, and we didn’t make it to the state tournament. Being on the bench made me realize how much basketball meant to me because I was really hurting mentally. Watching my team lose without me was tough, and I’m determined to change that this year.
NOTE: Garfield topped Ballard High School 63-50 on Feb. 18 to win the KingCo Conference 4A title and secure a berth into the state tournament. With a 21-3 record, Wroten and Garfield open play in the first round of the state tournament on Feb. 25.
You guys have to remember best player right now and best prospect right now are two different things
i know everyone likes to jump on the freshmen hype train, but i like jordan taylor of wisconsin. he can score and distribute and loves to take the big shots to win the game. decent pg size at 6'-1". there is no way wisconsin is not in the top 25 without him.
Taylor is a good college player who has the ability to take games over in the 4th quarter. He won't be able to do any of that in the NBA - his vision is average as is his handle and distributing ability.
I felt like Tony Wroten was the 2nd best PG prospect in the nation out of the 2011 class behind Teague. He outplayed the other PGs at the Jordan AA game after being snubbed for the McDonalds game. He's been playing very good this year aside from his turnovers, subpar FT shootings and lack of a perimeter jumper. At 6'4 200+ he can get to the rim and finish better than every freshman other than maybe Austin Rivers. His turnovers occur from him trying to force passes,make plays and being aggressive most times. He's still learning and developing to the college game. His passing ability is off the charts for a guard. I feel he will be someone who can score and be successful in the nba from day 1 given the right coach. He will probably need another year in school to play with the ball in his hands more but he can only get better in time . He will go top 5 if he comes out next season
Did you just compare Marshall to Rondo? are you joking?
He is basically the same size as Jason Kidd (ten years ago), Rubio, and Linn with same type of skills (quick with the ball, great vision, range lacking beyond 18 feet). The form on his shot is there; just in need of some reps. All the other guards with first round potential are more combo guards. Those types of guards may be en vogue right now but they don't win championships. You have to go back 20 + years to find a championship team (or a Finals team for that matter) that didn't have a pass first PG. You can debate a little about the PGs in Phil's triangle offenses, but John Paxon and Derek Fisher aren't the combo guards that I'm talking about. Westbrook, Evans, and Wall are exciting but until they win anything I'll take a true point guard anyday.
Marshall isn't the same athlete that Rubio and Kidd are. Rubio and Kidd are both fantastic in transition and wreak havoc in passing lanes because of their exceptional quickness. Marshall doesn't quite have that geer. If he compared to any NBA legend it would be Marc Jackson but Jackson could shoot better.
Marshall has to stay if he comes out now it's going to seriously hinder his development because he don't know how to score for himself in college. If he stays and learns how to become more of a scorer to go along with his passing then yes he can become a great PG prospect. But as of right now he's way too one dimensional to take high in the draft. It's not very hard to guard players in the NBA who only pass and don't have range on their jumper to keep the defense honest. Rubio get's away with it because of his pure basketball wizardry but to expect Marshall to do similar things is just not reasonable right now. Plus he's going to have trouble against quicker guards who push the pace.
And John Wall is a pure PG who is still understanding how to control the tempo of a game. But Wall is a pass first player who will see more success when he get's smarter players around him.
And Jordan Taylor has the opp to make serious noise and solidy a 1st round pick this year but he failed to really improve upon last year. He's a rock solid guard who has range on his jumper and NEVER turns the ball over which alone is going to get him drafted, but his ceiling is way to low to get drafted high.
And Tony Wroten is a pass first PG, he said it himself that's what he aims to be and that's how he loves playing in the interview I posted up top. He's scoring a lot for Washington because they need him too and that was the question scouts had on him coming out of high school. Scouts all knew Wroten could pass with the best of them they wanted to see him score more, now he's scoring more and people are questioning if he can pass?
probably the dumbest thing I've ever read in a forum. Wroten is averaging more turnovers per game than assists. He is not a pure pg no matter what he says. He can be spectatular but his decision making his terrible. Even Romar doesn't trust to leave him in during important stretches i.e. the comeback against UCLA. All of a sudden being able to play under control means a lack of athleticism. Marshall will surprise people at the combine with his numbers. People had the same doubts about Rubio's game before this year. Marshall is shooting signficantly better percentages than Wroten from 3 (30 to 20%) and the foul line (70 to 56%) and close to the same FG% (44 to 47%). I like Wroten can be a good pro, but has much further to go and is much riskier a choice.
Paul Pierce has a better assist/turnover ratio than John Wall. And don't use the scoring output as an agrument because they are taking the same number of shots and Pierce's scoring average is still higher. So yeah Wall is a PG in the same way that Pierce is.
Why is that a dumb comment? You think Wroten believing in himself as being able to become a true pass first PG is dumb? Do you know what is the most important piece to a players development is? It's what the player wants to become in his mind. Most elite guards brag about their scoring i.e. Tyreke Evans, not about their passing. Most elite guards also work to become better scorers not better passers. This is why the NBA is filled with scoring combo guards and not elite passers. So you think it's dumb that a player wants to become an elite passer and leader and not the NBA's leading scorer? Please further elaborate...
And are you saying that Paul Pierce is a better PG then John Wall? Because you followed me up by saying what IMO is one of the dumbest things I ever heard on this forum by saying because of Paul Pierces Assists/Turnover ratio he's just as good a PG as Wall. Do you understand that Wall has the ball in his hands nearly the whole game as compared to Pierce who isn't asked to do nowhere near as much for his team as Wall is. Pierce hit's open shots and facilitates. John Wall runs the whole team.
Just look at Rondo, he turns the ball over 4 times a game too! So does this mean Ray Allen is a better PG then him?
And yes Tony Wroten does turn the ball over often but do you know why? It's because he tries setting his teammates up so much. He does throw a lot of tough passes but so does Rubio. In the NBA most of his turnovers are going to be points because in the NBA his teammates will be better prepared to catch his passes and won't let them just bounce off their hands out of bounds.
And Romar does trust him at the end of the game, the UCLA game was just a bad game that happens to 18 year olds. But he folled that up by going 5-9 against USC with 13 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists and 1 t.o. And the 3 games before UCLA Wroten has monster games against Stanford, Arizona, and Arizona St. and lead his team to wins. He put up a monster game against Duke and was the only reason Washington was 6 points away from upsetting Duke.
Tony Wroten may be the 3rd best pure passer in the nation behind Marshall and Machado. But Wroten is also 6'7, a better scorer, and 3 years younger. You do the math.
than marshall. hes 6'5". and a worse shooter percentage wise. math isnt your strongest subject apparantly.
Wall is currently 48th in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio. Just ahead of other pure PGs like Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry
tony wroten jr. "i'm a pass first pg"
is that a good or a bad mentality coming from a guy averaging 4 TOs and 3.5 sat and is 6'5.
i think his main concern should be learning to play without the rock in his hands. and shooting the 3 better than 20%
How do you guys like this comparison?
Kendall Marshall = Jamal Tinsley
I'm talking Jamal Tinsley when he played for the Pacers averaging about 9 points and 8 assists per game...not athletic, not a great shooter, but a great passer, floor general and pure pg
Jamal Tinsley was much more athletic imo and he could create his own offense something Marshall cant do. Plus out of shape JT was a much better defender than Marshall who is very overrated imo
Here's Chad Ford's analysis of a player off ESPN's website:
- Great size for position
- Long wingspan
- Amazing playmaker, fantastic anticipation
- Incredible basketball IQ
- True floor leader
- Fearless, tough
- Crafty at getting to the basket
- Decent midrange jump shooter
- Good production at young age
- Lacks deep range on his jumper
- Lacks explosiveness athletically
- Below-average lateral quickness
- Needs to add strength
It's Ricky Rubio who Ford had as the second best prospect that year and is currently first in the league in steals and third in assists. Somehow Marshall is the 26th best prospect according to Ford, but gives his analysis of his game.
- One of the best passers in college basketball
- Sees the floor exceptionally well
- High basketball IQ
- Pure point guard, always looking to set others up
- Good size for his position, strong
- Improving shooter
- Not an explosive athlete
- Lacks great lateral quickness
Quoting Wroten's mediocre assist numbers isn't fair; Gaddy receives the bulk of play at PG for Washington.
Wroten needs to work on his decision-making and dial it back (is too reckless at times). His blend of court vision, passing ability, size, and athleticism is truly special.
Teach me how to lottery.
Jon, that's Kendall Marshall, right?
Regardless of where they play position wise. If Wroten made better decisions, he'd have the ball in his hands more instead of Gaddy. There is no excuse for a player with his vision to be 9th in the conference (and a weak conference at that) in assists and third in turnovers. Jud Heathcote taught Magic at Michigan State that a missed pass is the passers fault because you have to put the ball and intended player in a position to score. That is probably extreme but the point is just seeing the open man means nothing if it doesn't result in a positive play. There is a time for flash and a time when you just need a bucket. With Ross and the other shooters on that team and N'Diaye down low to dump it off to 3.5 assists is disgraceful.
Yea I said Kendall Marshall is a poor man's Rondo without the elite athleticism, what's wrong with that?
Tony Wroten is not a traditional pass first PG, no matter what he says, his game and numbers speaks louder than what he's saying.
Marquis Teague is the best PG prospect, the most athletic, the most potential, and he has the most accolades, you don't just dismiss the nation's #1 PG coming out of highschool.
John Wall is also 10th in the league in assists and when did Terry and Crawford become PG's? Oh that was sarcasm but I didn't get it what you were trying to say. Are you trying to say that Jason Terry and Jamal Crawford are just as good PG's as Wall? Or are you ready to declare Andre Iguadola the best PG in the league because he averaged over 5 apg and under 2 t.o.s which he might be the only player doing. I'm not even a John Wall fan but trying to undermine him as a PG and act like he's not one of the best PG prospects in the league is just ignorant.
So do you think Kendell Marshall is going to be a better PG then John Wall?
You keep quoting these turnover numbers like they mean anything other then how many turnovers a player commits in a game. They don't say anything about what kind of player they are or even compare them to the players usage rate which is the only real way to acknowledge turnovers.
I get what you're saying, you're trying to say that college production directly translate to NBA production. You're the reason Jrue Holiday fell to 17th in the draft because he was playing out of his position at UCLA and people forgot he was the best PG in his class. You're the person who said Westbrook was a terrible pick and could never play PG in the pro's because he was a SG in college.
Wroten is playing SG and sometimes SF because of his length at Washington so his assists numbers aren't going to be where they could be and no if he commited less T.O's he would play PG more because Abdul Gaddy is there and Tony Wroten can unfortunatly score better then anybody else on that team shame on him. He's been measured at 6'7 in shoes so why do you keep saying 6'5? Do you really believe a players listed height is his real height?
And what I find most amazing is you quoted Chad Ford. You gotta be an idiot because if Chad Ford was the end all be all of the word on draft prospects then this argument is over, do you know why? Do you know who Chad Ford has as his number one ranked PG? Tony Wroten!
What ya'll think about Waiters as a shoot first/driving pg in the tyreke evans mold? He has played with the ball in his hands a bunch for Syracuse and has been great & explosive driving and finishing or dishing. He is more of a SG prospect but at 6-4 I could see him being a big physical point guard in the league. Thoughts?
Waiters can play some PG but he's so good at scoring you'd be better off having him focus on that. I see him being a Rodney Stuckey type player in the league.
that he is contradicting himself in undervaluing Marshall. Just like most of the scouts/country is. And position played isn't as important as production. There's a difference between being the smallest guy on the court and being a point guard. Magic was bigger than Byron Scott and a better scorer, but who had the ball in their hands to make plays and was the better passer?
You aren't a good passer if you have more turnovers than assists.
Period. End of Arugment.
Iggy is a better passer than Wall. And a better decision maker.
Here's some more score first guards who were great in HS and have thrived lately in the NBA (sacasm alert):
I said in a post above about winning and the relationship with a pass first PG. Westbrook, Wall, and Evans can rack up all the points (and turnovers) they want, but with all the talent they had in college and now the pros they have zero championships combined.
About the height of players: Every player tries to say they are taller than they are. ESPN, Yahoo sports, nbadraft.net, etc etc etc all list Wroten as 6'5". Larry Johnson was listed at 6'8" in college until he was measured at the combine.
Again, I like Wroten. I think he could be a good pro. But don't call him a true point guard and don't say he's a great passer.
Since you brought up usage I searched for Wall on the Hollinger PER and found him (took awhile). 92nd in the league and 22nd amount PGs. Truly amazing. In usage he's tenth among pgs. So top third in Pgs. Great. He's also 42nd in True shooting %...among PGs.
I got so distracted by Mr. 19134's Wroten man crush, I never said anything about Teague, who I dislike even more than Wroten.
Heads up against Marshall here are the two players stats.
Marshall 3-6 field, 2-4 from three, 8 assists, 3 TO, 1 steal, 1 blk
Teague 3-11 field, 0-4 from three, 4 assists, 1 TO, 0 steal, 0 blk
Louisville 1-8 field, 0-3 from three, 5 assists, 4 TO, fouled out
For the season, Marshall has slightly better shooting percentages, more steals, same number of turnovers...and more than twice as many assists. Teague is scoring 3 more points a game, but is taking 3 more shots a game too. I'd take Marshall every time.
Well players usually get listed as their height in sneakers considering they play in sneakers but not every players does it for some unknow reason. Kevin Durant list himself as 6'9 despite being 6'11 for example. Wroten was measured at 6'7 in sneakers over the summer and it turned heads because he is a PG prospect with great passing ability so standing that tall adds another dimension. And just I dunno what you say if you don't think John Wall is a great passer. He averaged over 8 apg as a rookie which is extremely rare.
And the thing with Wroten is that he has too score because he's the best scorer on the team. If he went to Kentucky like he should have if Caliprari didn't for the first time in his life recruit the wrong PG, he would be racking up assists right now and would most likely be the hands down best PG prospect in this draft no questions asked. But nows he's stuck in a situation where Gaddy who himself is a McDonals All America and has been there for 3 years is the starting PG and with Wrotens height and scoring ability it's a natural fit in college to move him over to the 2guard. But he can't play 2guard in the pro's because he can't shoot that well and is a better with the ball in his hands.
When Wroten has played with other scorers he has shown the ability to control the game. At the Jordan Brand Classic Wroten finished with 10 assists and had the 2 best passes in the whole game. When he played at the Nike Hoops summit Wroten finished with an American team high 5 assists. On the American U-17 team that finished 8-0 Wroten was again one of the leaders in passing coming off the bench averaging 4.3 apg. So the resume and skill set is in place for Wroten to become a good PG.
I understand what you're saying about turnover's and how important they are. I'm a Sixers fan and the main reason they're one of the best teams in the league this year is because they are having a historical year in low turnovers. Right now the Sixers are only averaging 10 T.O's per game as a team and if they keep it up it will be the all time record.
But just because somebody commits turnovers doesn't take away from their natural play making ability it just means either they take too many risk, have bad offensive awareness, or both. Most of Wroten's turnovers are because he takes too many risk but that's easily remedied is the right structure.
And I really like Marshall because it's rare players put up a lot of assists in college and he does that and more. I like him when I see a video of him in high school and thought he was a great passer and is gonna kill it going to UNC with all the talent around him and he is. But I don't like him in this years draft because he is going to hurt himself by not staying another year. If he stays another year I think he's an easy top 10 pick once he comes back with a better shot and scores more. I'd really like to see him average a double double next year then declare because that would be special for a PG to average a double double in PPG and APG in the ACC. Not only that it gives Marshall a better understanding and rhythm of scoring and passing. He still needs to learn how to find his points in the offense while also facilitating and I can see him becoming another Andre Miller whose had a ton of success in the NBA knowing how to do that.
My point is I don't like scoring PG's but I do prefer PG's who are good at both scoring and passing.
You keep reciting stats do you actually watch the games or just read the box scores?
Kyrie Irving only averaged 4apg last year too, so if he was in this years draft you would be saying Marshll should be taken ahead of him? Because Marshall has more assists and less turnovers then Irving.
Forgot to mention since you like Hollinger stats why and you think Marshall is so efficient why don't you look up the top PG prospects PER. PER as you should know is a great indicator of a players overall impact on the court and how efficient a player is. I found it interesting that Wroten PER is 22 while Marshall has a PER of only 16. Who would of thought the pass first PG who don't turn the ball would have a considerably lower PER rating then the guy who get's more turnovers then assists but is clearly the better the player.
I think to myself what Wroten's number would look like as a sophomore, because if we compared Wroten's numbers now to Marshall's as a freshman they wouldn't even be close.
Also you seem to not like John Wall but are you ready to tell nbadraft.net that you would rather have Kendell Marshal then John Wall if you were starting a team?
And I sure don't put much stock in HS all Star games. Duke was a completely different team with Kyrie than without him. I don't see Washington playing differently whether Wroten is in the game or not. That said I'm not super high on Kyrie as a pro either as he's getting 5 assists a game now. I only use stats because it's easy to say someone has potential or has great length or size. At some point you have to get results too. That's why I wouldn't take Perry Jones in the first round.
UW was preseaon number 23 and has been a disappointment this season. Romar isn't great but has won with teams with equal or less talent in the past.
You go back and forth about Wroten's skills. He scores now because he has to, but can't shoot well enough to be 2 in the pros. I think he does both above average but neither well enough to be a star. If he finds the right fit with a pro team and doesn't get pushed too hard too soon(your post on the subject i.e. Linn and Turner was great) I think he can be a starter for a long time. But that's a big if.
I think EFF stats are interesting but not the end all in evaluation. I think it would be easier to get Marshall to shoot ten times a game than to get Wroten to take better shots and stop turning it over.
And yes if I'm starting a team I'd take Marshall over John Wall. There are fifteen players who do the same things he does and most of them do it better. Marshall has skills that only a handful of players in the league have and are getting rarer all the time.
Wroten is a 2 guard, he can't facilitate, he didn't do it in HS,not doing it in college, and it's only going to get alot harder in the NBA. As I stated Wroten does have amazing vision but he lacks the instincts to be a true PG, no matter what he says.
He is NBA ready, he has great talent,but you will see he will be more of a combo guard in the NBA,playing most of his time at the 2.
I am just laughing really hard at the person that said that Ricky Rubio is light years more athletic than Marshall. You all need to watch video of both of them. Their games are EXACTLY the same, except Marshall is left handed. Anyone who says he can't create offense for himself needs to watch the Duke game from this year, no one could stay in front of him. Marshall's only weakness is that he is too unselfish at times because he has proven throughout college he can score when needed, his physical limitations don't hinder him.
The best PG prospect is Marquis Teague IMO, but he has SO much to learn. None of the best PG prospects are polished enough to run an NBA team right now and make them better. The best PG in the country is Kendall Marshall, and I think he will be a successful NBA PG too. Nobody makes their team better out of any of the PG's in the nation. Not Machado, not Wroten, not Kabongo, not anyone.
1. Marshall-should be a lottery pick, but probably will fall just outside. Lucky for whoever gets him
2. D Lilliard-Early twenties
3. Machado- Early to mid second round
No one else should be drafted as a point guard. Teague I think will stay another year if Kentucky doesn't win it all. And he should. He isn't ready for the NBA
Teague is outta there,if he can keep up his solid play, he's gone, no need to stick around, he will get better next year, while getting paid.
But I have little faith in him being a NBA PG. Even less faith than I had in Tyreke Evans, who has ultimately shown he is not a NBA PG either. I think the best PG prospect, in this class that has incredibly few, is Marquis Teague. He gets a lot of flack for not being the PG that many of the past Calipari guys have been, but his expectations were ridiculous. The guy is still a blur with the ball, has a solid frame and I see a lot of similarities to Jeff. Like Jeff, his shooting is something that should improve with time.
Kendall Marshall is an absolute throw back PG who has fantastic court vision. The problem I have with him translating to the NBA is a lack of quickness, that could really hurt him on both ends of the court. He is not as poor of an offensive player as his numbers would appear to indicate, but he certainly would need to be in a system where they had more than enough scoring punch to make up for him. When you look at most NBA teams, that could be an issue. To me, he looks like a great back-up PG. I do not know if you want that in a top 20 or so pick.
This is definitely not a great PG draft after the past few have had a number of solid options. The upside is that most teams do not have horrible PG issues and at least have some prospects at the position. Here are the teams that have issues at PG or may want to upgrade the position:
- LA Lakers
- New Orleans Hornets
- Toronto Raptors
- Orlando Magic
- Utah Jazz
- Phoenix Suns (Though they still have Aaron Brooks rights as a RFA once he returns from China)
- Dallas Mavericks (Probably have to start thinking about Kidd replacements)
These are not the only teams that have PG issues or could look to bolster the position, but these are the ones in which it is probably one of the more urgent positions they are looking at. Of current lotto bound teams, the Hornets probably are more focused on the front line while the Raps need help on the wing. The Lakers definitely will be looking at midfirst round options, but most of these teams are not horribly strained at PG. Between the 2008-2011 Drafts, their were a number of big time PG prospects. Guess this year is a momentary drought.
Hold On you guys agree with Jon Oats in that Kendell Marshall is better then John Wall? Am I in the twilight zone or is everybody smoking cracc?
"Marshall has skills that only a handful of players in the league have..."
Yeah I can't think of any PG's in the NBA right now that can average 7 points and 10 assists shooting 43% from the field on a stacked UNC team. John Wall averaged 6.5 apg as a freshman that's more then Marshall averaged as a freshman. Marshall might pass more because he has too, he can't score that well. Even Rondo averaged double digits points in college and shot nearly 50% for crying out loud. Marshall is taking a low number of &$#%#&@!, and hitting an even lower % if he didn't pass the ball so well he wouldn't even be a D-1 college player.
And we're only talking about offense, like always, but switching to defense Marshall is not a stand out on this side of the ball. He's not a terrible defender, but he's not a great defender. Having Henson and Zeller in the lane covers up a ton of his deficincies on this side of the ball.
And finally UNC's starting 5 is probably better then the Wizards starting 5. I would love for Wall and Marshall to switch spots and see how that turns out for them. Could you imagine Marshall running the Wizards? Could you imagine John Wall right now as a sophomore at UNC after sitting out last year because he transfered from Kentucky?
What do you think they would be averaging? Cuz I'm willing to bet John Wall would be hands down the best player in college averaging 20ppg and 11apg. Kendell Marshall playing on the Wizards? ....
Look at how different that team has been the last 13 months. And the wizards were terrible before and still terrible. The Wiz couldn't win less games with Marshall at PG. Take Marshall off of UNC and they are barely a top twenty five team. John Wall couldn't get to the Final Four with 7 NBA players on that Kentucky team. Marshall could average 8 points and 10+ assists (and under 3 TO's) on any NBA team right now if he got 30 mins a game.