[mattholdenbrownParticipant]

on 1st and 10 they had 5. dirk 4. melo 3. wade 2. pierce 1.kobe

I think thats exactly rite, what do u guys think?

[justin22443Participant]

 Ray Allen deserves honorable mention

[justin22443Participant]

 Ray Allen deserves honorable mention

[bkb77Participant]

1.Kobe 2.Kobe 3.Kobe 4.Kobe 5.Kobe

[bkb77Participant]

1.Kobe 2.Kobe 3.Kobe 4.Kobe 5.Kobe

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

Deron Williams is incredibly clutch 

[sammybuckeye13Participant]

Deron Williams is incredibly clutch 

[goneParticipant]

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Carmelo Anthony
5. Steve Nash

Clutch isnt just making shots………

[goneParticipant]

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Carmelo Anthony
5. Steve Nash

Clutch isnt just making shots………

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

No, no, no Wizkid haven’t you heard? Lebron is a huge choker with no killer instinct. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

No, no, no Wizkid haven’t you heard? Lebron is a huge choker with no killer instinct. 

[goneParticipant]

Jammin-lemon says otherwise 🙂 

[goneParticipant]

Jammin-lemon says otherwise 🙂 

[mattholdenbrownParticipant]

 pierce doesnt even make ur top 5? 

[mattholdenbrownParticipant]

 pierce doesnt even make ur top 5? 

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

IMO

Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Wade and Nash

 

 

[BKKnicksfanParticipant]

IMO

Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Wade and Nash

 

 

[goneParticipant]

If your question was who would you want to take a shot in the clutch he would

 

[goneParticipant]

If your question was who would you want to take a shot in the clutch he would

 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Kobe

Melo

Dirk

Pierce

Billups

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Kobe

Melo

Dirk

Pierce

Billups

[goneParticipant]

Wow billups choked something fierce the last couple playoffs you must be sippin that ESPN syrup jk jk but yea billups sucks

[goneParticipant]

Wow billups choked something fierce the last couple playoffs you must be sippin that ESPN syrup jk jk but yea billups sucks

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Billups is no longer clutch. But he thinks he is, so he takes(and misses) a ton of shots at the end of games. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Billups is no longer clutch. But he thinks he is, so he takes(and misses) a ton of shots at the end of games. 

[RObin PadillaParticipant]

im sorry but lebrons name shouldnt belong in a sentence with the word clutch… lol 

[RObin PadillaParticipant]

im sorry but lebrons name shouldnt belong in a sentence with the word clutch… lol 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

^Based on what? Couldn’t have been this…

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

[RObin PadillaParticipant]

thats because lebron is all about stats… always wanting to put up trip dubs….  

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

^Based on what? Couldn’t have been this…

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

[RObin PadillaParticipant]

thats because lebron is all about stats… always wanting to put up trip dubs….  

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Im Your Father

according to that.. Beasley is a better clutch player than Ben Gordon and Ray Allen

NO.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

Im Your Father

according to that.. Beasley is a better clutch player than Ben Gordon and Ray Allen

NO.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Well first of all, I’m thinking about more than stats, I’ve actually watched him play. 

Also, that guy said "im sorry but lebrons name shouldnt belong in a sentence with the word clutch… lol"

Stats don’t mean everything, but they are relevant. Lebron performs when the game is on the line. Point blank. I used the game winning shot stats the other day, but which Indianabasketball didn’t like, but once again they showed Lebron tops in the league. When a guy is first in every meaningful clutch statistic, it means something. Other than Kobe, there is no other player I would rather have the ball at the end of a close game. 

 

 

 

 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Well first of all, I’m thinking about more than stats, I’ve actually watched him play. 

Also, that guy said "im sorry but lebrons name shouldnt belong in a sentence with the word clutch… lol"

Stats don’t mean everything, but they are relevant. Lebron performs when the game is on the line. Point blank. I used the game winning shot stats the other day, but which Indianabasketball didn’t like, but once again they showed Lebron tops in the league. When a guy is first in every meaningful clutch statistic, it means something. Other than Kobe, there is no other player I would rather have the ball at the end of a close game. 

 

 

 

 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Here’s the gamewinners again…

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Here’s the gamewinners again…

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I think Carmelo should be ahead of Wade, but only because he has a better shooting percentage than him. In terms of athletic skill, they are very close but I think Wade has the edge there. (But that may just be because I am more bias towards D-wade than I am to Melo.

I also think both Ray Allen and Deron Williams deserve an honorable mention. I actually think they should both be higher than Dirk, but again I’m being a little bias there especially towards D-will.

[SwatLakeCityParticipant]

 I think Carmelo should be ahead of Wade, but only because he has a better shooting percentage than him. In terms of athletic skill, they are very close but I think Wade has the edge there. (But that may just be because I am more bias towards D-wade than I am to Melo.

I also think both Ray Allen and Deron Williams deserve an honorable mention. I actually think they should both be higher than Dirk, but again I’m being a little bias there especially towards D-will.

[bigblackNbeautifulParticipant]

 Choke in his only finals apperance. That aint clutch 

[bigblackNbeautifulParticipant]

 Choke in his only finals apperance. That aint clutch 

[jaysmith1987Participant]

Only person I don’t agree with on the list is dirk if he was so clutch he would be wearing a championship ring after being up 2 none on the heat.

[jaysmith1987Participant]

Only person I don’t agree with on the list is dirk if he was so clutch he would be wearing a championship ring after being up 2 none on the heat.

[creepingdefParticipant]

Derek Fisher? An honorable mention at least.

[creepingdefParticipant]

Derek Fisher? An honorable mention at least.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

You put really undervalue Lebron.  For the first 7 years of his career he took virtually every important shot for Cleveland and they have won more games then any other team in the East during that time.  Lebron has hit huge shots and has taken over complete playoff series more then a few times.  And Lebron has his ball in the hands at the end of the game for the Heat more then Wade so how would he even be considered higher then him because him ans Shaq won a championship but hasn’t even sniffed that level since then.

1.  Kobe

2.  Pierce

3. Lebron

4. Melo

5. Brandon Roy

Honorable Mention:

Amare 

Durant

Nash

[Mr. 19134Participant]

You put really undervalue Lebron.  For the first 7 years of his career he took virtually every important shot for Cleveland and they have won more games then any other team in the East during that time.  Lebron has hit huge shots and has taken over complete playoff series more then a few times.  And Lebron has his ball in the hands at the end of the game for the Heat more then Wade so how would he even be considered higher then him because him ans Shaq won a championship but hasn’t even sniffed that level since then.

1.  Kobe

2.  Pierce

3. Lebron

4. Melo

5. Brandon Roy

Honorable Mention:

Amare 

Durant

Nash

[Anton123Participant]

I think Ginobli deseves at least honorable mention.

He’s incedibly clutch and he just won a game fo his team

[Anton123Participant]

I think Ginobli deseves at least honorable mention.

He’s incedibly clutch and he just won a game fo his team

[HaleParticipant]

Nash was left off of a lot of lists sadly. Also Rose has been very clutch this year, but doesn’t have enough clutch moments to warrant a top 5 clutch spot in the NBA right now, soon though, he will.

[HaleParticipant]

Nash was left off of a lot of lists sadly. Also Rose has been very clutch this year, but doesn’t have enough clutch moments to warrant a top 5 clutch spot in the NBA right now, soon though, he will.

[Spurs2020Participant]

 The previous 2 82games.com articles have been just been sortable clutch stats and stats on last second shots…

A few years ago they did an entire analysis of clutch stats based on everything that goes on at the end of a close game. They evaluate, assists, steals, blocks, ability to draw fouls, FT%, team performance on offense and defense, and apply appropriate weights to the measures. An incredible 3-part study that gives not only the stats, but in depth dicusssion to explain their rationale for deicsions they made. 

granted, its from 2004-2005, but a good deal of it is still very relevant. 

there is a term in behavioral economics for people who think kobe is the most clutch player in the league, its called hindsight bias, kobe fans only remember the games where he hits the big shots (he takes a lot of them , so he eventually makes alot) and their memory puts overwhelming emphasis on those "good" moments because they make kobe fans happy, whereas, the bad moments are scoffed at, and quickly forgotten

studies have been done and its amazing how people delude themselves into thinking like this

here is the article, highly suggest reading it, all the way at the bottom of the page is a link to part II and same there to part III and the final list

http://www.82games.com/clutchplayers.htm

http://www.82games.com/clutchplay3.htm

[Spurs2020Participant]

 The previous 2 82games.com articles have been just been sortable clutch stats and stats on last second shots…

A few years ago they did an entire analysis of clutch stats based on everything that goes on at the end of a close game. They evaluate, assists, steals, blocks, ability to draw fouls, FT%, team performance on offense and defense, and apply appropriate weights to the measures. An incredible 3-part study that gives not only the stats, but in depth dicusssion to explain their rationale for deicsions they made. 

granted, its from 2004-2005, but a good deal of it is still very relevant. 

there is a term in behavioral economics for people who think kobe is the most clutch player in the league, its called hindsight bias, kobe fans only remember the games where he hits the big shots (he takes a lot of them , so he eventually makes alot) and their memory puts overwhelming emphasis on those "good" moments because they make kobe fans happy, whereas, the bad moments are scoffed at, and quickly forgotten

studies have been done and its amazing how people delude themselves into thinking like this

here is the article, highly suggest reading it, all the way at the bottom of the page is a link to part II and same there to part III and the final list

http://www.82games.com/clutchplayers.htm

http://www.82games.com/clutchplay3.htm

[iguapops420Participant]

1. Kobe

2. Melo

3. Lebron

4. Rondo (extremely underrate in clutch. Always brings his A+ game when its needed on O and D.)

5. Pierce

 

( I wanted to keep Lebron off of my list as i truely feel his game late in quarters is just lebron being lebron. Nothing I see about his game screams im the motherfucker out here. No true alpha to him which i want outta my guy with the ball in his hands. I think he could do whatever he wanted individually at any ticould play half of each game and still avg 20 5 5 on the season. He’s just that good. But the simple fact remains that when the truely important times come around he’s nowhere to be spotted. Did nothing but hide in the corner against bos. Regardless, 95% of the time he’s gonna get the job done for me. so he’s gonna stay around 3-5.)

[iguapops420Participant]

1. Kobe

2. Melo

3. Lebron

4. Rondo (extremely underrate in clutch. Always brings his A+ game when its needed on O and D.)

5. Pierce

 

( I wanted to keep Lebron off of my list as i truely feel his game late in quarters is just lebron being lebron. Nothing I see about his game screams im the motherfucker out here. No true alpha to him which i want outta my guy with the ball in his hands. I think he could do whatever he wanted individually at any ticould play half of each game and still avg 20 5 5 on the season. He’s just that good. But the simple fact remains that when the truely important times come around he’s nowhere to be spotted. Did nothing but hide in the corner against bos. Regardless, 95% of the time he’s gonna get the job done for me. so he’s gonna stay around 3-5.)

[Ghost01Participant]

MJ

How bout that?

Its such a hard argument to make. Based on volume and career clutch plays made, i would only assume it goes

1. Kobe

2. Lebron

3. Ray Allen

4. Dirk

5. Paul Pierce

 

And no, Billups isnt clutch anymore. Cite the 09 WCF, when he was a year and half better than he is now.

[Ghost01Participant]

MJ

How bout that?

Its such a hard argument to make. Based on volume and career clutch plays made, i would only assume it goes

1. Kobe

2. Lebron

3. Ray Allen

4. Dirk

5. Paul Pierce

 

And no, Billups isnt clutch anymore. Cite the 09 WCF, when he was a year and half better than he is now.

[NYK2010Participant]

Kobe

Pierce

Lebron

Dirk

Mello

Honorable mention

Roy, Amare, Wade, Allen, Nash, Ginobli

[NYK2010Participant]

Kobe

Pierce

Lebron

Dirk

Mello

Honorable mention

Roy, Amare, Wade, Allen, Nash, Ginobli

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I just don’t care too much for 82games.com’s definition of a "game winning" shot.

24 seconds or less in a game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

TWENTY-FOUR seconds? That’s a LONG time in a close ball game. A team could get two or three more possessions with that much time on the clock. Attempting a shot with 24 seconds on the clock compared to 5 seconds on the clock is a BIG difference pressure wise. If there’s only 5 seconds left on the clock, you won’t get another possession.

Another problem is it doesn’t take into account whether the player won or lost the game. IF Kobe made a "game winning" shot with 20 seconds left, but the other team still won the game… 82games.com would still consider that a "game winning" shot for Kobe.

I’d also like to see shots in the final 24 seconds broken down… For example, how many shots did LeBron make in the final 10 seconds? How many did he make in the final 5 seconds and was his team tied or down a point? Attempting a shot while the score is tied compared to being down a point is also a big difference pressure wise because if you’re down points and you miss, there’s no overtime. This just isn’t broken down enough for me…

And why should a shot that only ties the game with 23 seconds still left on the clock be considered a "game winning" shot?

I just don’t like the way 82games.com defines a game winning shot. Here’s an example of how they do it:

LeBron James – Went 2/2 in the final 24 seconds (no shots attempted under 10 seconds). Team lost game.

Kobe Bryant – Went 2/4 in the final 24 seconds, but made one shot with 8 seconds and then another at the buzzer (team down one point) to win the game. Team won game.

According to 82games.com, based on the scenario above, LeBron would be more clutch than Kobe. I see a problem with that…

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I just don’t care too much for 82games.com’s definition of a "game winning" shot.

24 seconds or less in a game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

TWENTY-FOUR seconds? That’s a LONG time in a close ball game. A team could get two or three more possessions with that much time on the clock. Attempting a shot with 24 seconds on the clock compared to 5 seconds on the clock is a BIG difference pressure wise. If there’s only 5 seconds left on the clock, you won’t get another possession.

Another problem is it doesn’t take into account whether the player won or lost the game. IF Kobe made a "game winning" shot with 20 seconds left, but the other team still won the game… 82games.com would still consider that a "game winning" shot for Kobe.

I’d also like to see shots in the final 24 seconds broken down… For example, how many shots did LeBron make in the final 10 seconds? How many did he make in the final 5 seconds and was his team tied or down a point? Attempting a shot while the score is tied compared to being down a point is also a big difference pressure wise because if you’re down points and you miss, there’s no overtime. This just isn’t broken down enough for me…

And why should a shot that only ties the game with 23 seconds still left on the clock be considered a "game winning" shot?

I just don’t like the way 82games.com defines a game winning shot. Here’s an example of how they do it:

LeBron James – Went 2/2 in the final 24 seconds (no shots attempted under 10 seconds). Team lost game.

Kobe Bryant – Went 2/4 in the final 24 seconds, but made one shot with 8 seconds and then another at the buzzer (team down one point) to win the game. Team won game.

According to 82games.com, based on the scenario above, LeBron would be more clutch than Kobe. I see a problem with that…

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^^ 2nd that

[iguapops420Participant]

 ^^^^ 2nd that

[mj23mj23besteverParticipant]

kobe no 1 by a huge margin any mention of lebron in a clutch mention is completley off the i wouldnt even want that choke artist on the court in the cluth cause he dont want the ball

[mj23mj23besteverParticipant]

kobe no 1 by a huge margin any mention of lebron in a clutch mention is completley off the i wouldnt even want that choke artist on the court in the cluth cause he dont want the ball

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

@Indianabasketball, I’m not trying to argue with you that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe. "But 24 seconds or less in a game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points" is still a very clutch situation and the game is obviously on the line. I’m not saying stats are everything, but it is nearly impossible to objectively look at all those clutch stats, including "the last 5 min, close game" ones and conclude that Lebron doesn’t perform well when the game is on the line. 

People have been making out like Lebron has no business being in the conversation, when in fact he is, at the very least, among the top 5 clutchest players in the league. Stats can be slightly deceiving for sure, like you pointed out, but so can hating Lebron so much that you think he "is robin," "isn’t clutch," "has no killer instinct," etc. They aren’t perfect, but they are the most objective way to look at this. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

@Indianabasketball, I’m not trying to argue with you that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe. "But 24 seconds or less in a game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points" is still a very clutch situation and the game is obviously on the line. I’m not saying stats are everything, but it is nearly impossible to objectively look at all those clutch stats, including "the last 5 min, close game" ones and conclude that Lebron doesn’t perform well when the game is on the line. 

People have been making out like Lebron has no business being in the conversation, when in fact he is, at the very least, among the top 5 clutchest players in the league. Stats can be slightly deceiving for sure, like you pointed out, but so can hating Lebron so much that you think he "is robin," "isn’t clutch," "has no killer instinct," etc. They aren’t perfect, but they are the most objective way to look at this. 

[paint intruderParticipant]

Derek Fisher was clutch over his carrier. And Ginobili really deserves to be mentioned with the way he has played.

And I simply HAVE to mention Big Shot Rob. : D

[paint intruderParticipant]

Derek Fisher was clutch over his carrier. And Ginobili really deserves to be mentioned with the way he has played.

And I simply HAVE to mention Big Shot Rob. : D

[DoubleNickelsDurr55Participant]

1. Kobe "Beef" Bryant

2. Paul "I survived being stabbed multiply times" Pierce

3. Dirk "Ugliest nba player not named popeye jones" Nowitzki

4. Dwayne "I shave my arm pits" Wade

5. Brandon "My knee hurts" Roy

[DoubleNickelsDurr55Participant]

1. Kobe "Beef" Bryant

2. Paul "I survived being stabbed multiply times" Pierce

3. Dirk "Ugliest nba player not named popeye jones" Nowitzki

4. Dwayne "I shave my arm pits" Wade

5. Brandon "My knee hurts" Roy

[andxxxParticipant]

 1. Kobe Bryant

2. Dwyane Wade

3. Steve Nash

4. Lebron James

5. Paul Pierce 

[andxxxParticipant]

 1. Kobe Bryant

2. Dwyane Wade

3. Steve Nash

4. Lebron James

5. Paul Pierce 

[DowJonezBFGParticipant]

 LeBron is no top 5 clutch player, sure he is great, 4th quarter he will rise to the occasion, but what about the final minute between making late free throws and that final shot to stay alive? He often does disappear, and that shot against the magic was just one shot. Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Ginobli, D-Will, and CP3 deserve honorable mention. Tayshaun Prince, Trevor Ariza, and Josh Smith deserve defensive cluth mention. IMO

[DowJonezBFGParticipant]

 LeBron is no top 5 clutch player, sure he is great, 4th quarter he will rise to the occasion, but what about the final minute between making late free throws and that final shot to stay alive? He often does disappear, and that shot against the magic was just one shot. Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Ginobli, D-Will, and CP3 deserve honorable mention. Tayshaun Prince, Trevor Ariza, and Josh Smith deserve defensive cluth mention. IMO

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I just posted statistics showing that he is the best player in the league when the game is tied or his team is down with under 24 seconds to go. 

So he disappears less than almost anyone else.  

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I just posted statistics showing that he is the best player in the league when the game is tied or his team is down with under 24 seconds to go. 

So he disappears less than almost anyone else.  

[andxxxParticipant]

You forgot what he did against the Pistons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

[andxxxParticipant]

You forgot what he did against the Pistons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

24 seconds or less isn’t detailed enough for me. LeBron could make a ton of shots with 24 seconds to go, but not show up when his team is down to one last possession. 82games.com doesn’t break down the situations. They consider just about anything a "game winning" shot, which is just a little lame in my opinion.

I don’t care how many shots Kobe takes/misses in the final 24 seconds, as long as he hits the one to win the game (meaning barely or no seconds on the clock). And I’ve seen Kobe do that plenty of times. I’ve seen Pierce do it. I’ve seen Ray Allen do it. I’ve seen Dirk do it. Derrick Rose has started to do it. Even Rudy Gay has started to do it. I haven’t seen LeBron do it that much. Like three times in his entire career. He did it vs Washington, Golden State and Orlando. It’s almost like LeBron doesn’t want to take that final shot. I’ve seen him pass the ball. I’ve seen him take jumpers instead of driving (he’s the best driver in NBA history) because he didn’t want want to get put on the line.

LeBron is a clutch player, but when the pressure is at it’s PEAK, I just don’t think he’s been as good as a few players in the NBA. I guess I just wouldn’t have him attempting my game winning shot if I KNEW my team only had one possession left.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

24 seconds or less isn’t detailed enough for me. LeBron could make a ton of shots with 24 seconds to go, but not show up when his team is down to one last possession. 82games.com doesn’t break down the situations. They consider just about anything a "game winning" shot, which is just a little lame in my opinion.

I don’t care how many shots Kobe takes/misses in the final 24 seconds, as long as he hits the one to win the game (meaning barely or no seconds on the clock). And I’ve seen Kobe do that plenty of times. I’ve seen Pierce do it. I’ve seen Ray Allen do it. I’ve seen Dirk do it. Derrick Rose has started to do it. Even Rudy Gay has started to do it. I haven’t seen LeBron do it that much. Like three times in his entire career. He did it vs Washington, Golden State and Orlando. It’s almost like LeBron doesn’t want to take that final shot. I’ve seen him pass the ball. I’ve seen him take jumpers instead of driving (he’s the best driver in NBA history) because he didn’t want want to get put on the line.

LeBron is a clutch player, but when the pressure is at it’s PEAK, I just don’t think he’s been as good as a few players in the NBA. I guess I just wouldn’t have him attempting my game winning shot if I KNEW my team only had one possession left.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I’m not necessarily arguing with you, as I said, I was more responding to comments like " Any mention of lebron in a clutch mention is completley off the i wouldnt even want that choke artist on the court in the cluth cause he dont want the ball." Lebron may not be the clutchest in the league, but he has proven that you can go to him in crunch time and he will deliver. He belongs in the conversation is all I’m saying.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

I’m not necessarily arguing with you, as I said, I was more responding to comments like " Any mention of lebron in a clutch mention is completley off the i wouldnt even want that choke artist on the court in the cluth cause he dont want the ball." Lebron may not be the clutchest in the league, but he has proven that you can go to him in crunch time and he will deliver. He belongs in the conversation is all I’m saying.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Once again, I don’t think that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe, I have never said that. I am completely aware that those statistics can be misleading, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t meaningful. That is my only point. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Once again, I don’t think that Lebron is more clutch than Kobe, I have never said that. I am completely aware that those statistics can be misleading, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t meaningful. That is my only point. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Over a season Kobe could be 10/30 on 82games.com’s definition of "game winning" shots (hit 10 WALK-OFF game winners though) and LeBron could be 20/30 (hit no walk-off game winners and his team lost 5 of the games)… 82games.com would consider LeBron more clutch than Kobe.

That’s flawed thinking and it’s misleading.

And LeBron is a clutch player… I just don’t think he’s great when the pressure is at it’s highest… When the pressure is so high it’s either going to make a diamond or burst a pipe.

I don’t even think Kobe is THAT great (though he’s the best in the league and has been for some time) in those situations… He’s definitely not Michael Jordan.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Over a season Kobe could be 10/30 on 82games.com’s definition of "game winning" shots (hit 10 WALK-OFF game winners though) and LeBron could be 20/30 (hit no walk-off game winners and his team lost 5 of the games)… 82games.com would consider LeBron more clutch than Kobe.

That’s flawed thinking and it’s misleading.

And LeBron is a clutch player… I just don’t think he’s great when the pressure is at it’s highest… When the pressure is so high it’s either going to make a diamond or burst a pipe.

I don’t even think Kobe is THAT great (though he’s the best in the league and has been for some time) in those situations… He’s definitely not Michael Jordan.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I know you’re not saying LeBron is more clutch than Kobe. I’m just using those two players as examples.

My point of consistently bringing this up is because you always bring up 82game.com, when there are significant holes in the way they determine who’s clutch, who’s not and what a “game winning” shot is.

With one possession left on the clock and making a shot when the pressure is at it’s peak, I don’t think LeBron is top five in the NBA. Is he even top ten?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I know you’re not saying LeBron is more clutch than Kobe. I’m just using those two players as examples.

My point of consistently bringing this up is because you always bring up 82game.com, when there are significant holes in the way they determine who’s clutch, who’s not and what a “game winning” shot is.

With one possession left on the clock and making a shot when the pressure is at it’s peak, I don’t think LeBron is top five in the NBA. Is he even top ten?

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

The only reason I bring it up is that is the only objective way to look at this. No it is not perfect, yes there are flaws in it. But do you not think that it’s significant that Lebron leads in all the clutch statistics that they can come up with. Being clutch is more than taking the last shot, it is coming up big when the game is on the line and Lebron has consistently done that. I am acknowledging that there are wholes in the statistics, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore them. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

The only reason I bring it up is that is the only objective way to look at this. No it is not perfect, yes there are flaws in it. But do you not think that it’s significant that Lebron leads in all the clutch statistics that they can come up with. Being clutch is more than taking the last shot, it is coming up big when the game is on the line and Lebron has consistently done that. I am acknowledging that there are wholes in the statistics, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore them. 

[andxxxParticipant]

 Why does being clutch only have to be making buzzer beaters?  What about getting his team back from behind in the 4th quarter?  Lebron has led the league in 4th quarter scoring and he’s proven himself in plenty of big moments.  His first playoff series he was excellent, everyone saw what he did against the Pistons.  In game 7 against the eventual championship Celtics he scored 40+ trying to do everything for his team to win.  The Magic series he had a game winner was able to knock down clutch free throws and had numbers that have not been seen in a long time.  He sucked against the Celtics last year, but so did Dwight Howard and even Kobe.  His first game going against the Cavs where a lot of people expected him to fold under the pressure he stepped up and had the best game of his Heat career at the time. 

Lebron has proven himself in the regular season and most importantly the playoffs where a lot of these other so called clutch players fall short I wouldn’t put him above Kobe, but he’s pretty damn good.

[andxxxParticipant]

 Why does being clutch only have to be making buzzer beaters?  What about getting his team back from behind in the 4th quarter?  Lebron has led the league in 4th quarter scoring and he’s proven himself in plenty of big moments.  His first playoff series he was excellent, everyone saw what he did against the Pistons.  In game 7 against the eventual championship Celtics he scored 40+ trying to do everything for his team to win.  The Magic series he had a game winner was able to knock down clutch free throws and had numbers that have not been seen in a long time.  He sucked against the Celtics last year, but so did Dwight Howard and even Kobe.  His first game going against the Cavs where a lot of people expected him to fold under the pressure he stepped up and had the best game of his Heat career at the time. 

Lebron has proven himself in the regular season and most importantly the playoffs where a lot of these other so called clutch players fall short I wouldn’t put him above Kobe, but he’s pretty damn good.

[apb540Participant]

1 Kobe

2 Manu

3 Melo

4 Ray Allen

5 Pierce

5b. Tim Duncan (doesn’t always take the big shot but he ALWAYS makes the right play in the clutch) 

[apb540Participant]

1 Kobe

2 Manu

3 Melo

4 Ray Allen

5 Pierce

5b. Tim Duncan (doesn’t always take the big shot but he ALWAYS makes the right play in the clutch) 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’m not trying to be a d*ck, but no… I don’t like the way they’ve determined what a "game winning" shot is and who’s clutch or not. I don’t think it’s detailed nor broken down enough. There are too many holes in the way they’ve come up with it.

It doesn’t tell us who performs the best when the pressure is at it’s peak. As far as we know, the player that leads in "game winning" shots could be the player who shrinks the most when it’s down to one final possession. Yes, being clutch is more than just making the game winning shot, but if a player shrinks at the bursting point… How is he a killer? How is he clutch?

When I think of clutch, I think of Derek Fisher. I think of Michael Jordan. I think of Robert Horry. I think of guys who have ice in their veins and take that shot without thinking… And knock it down. I think of Kobe Bryant, though not at the level a lot of people do. I just don’t think of LeBron James as having ice in his veins.

But we’ll have to respectfully disagree on this one.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’m not trying to be a d*ck, but no… I don’t like the way they’ve determined what a "game winning" shot is and who’s clutch or not. I don’t think it’s detailed nor broken down enough. There are too many holes in the way they’ve come up with it.

It doesn’t tell us who performs the best when the pressure is at it’s peak. As far as we know, the player that leads in "game winning" shots could be the player who shrinks the most when it’s down to one final possession. Yes, being clutch is more than just making the game winning shot, but if a player shrinks at the bursting point… How is he a killer? How is he clutch?

When I think of clutch, I think of Derek Fisher. I think of Michael Jordan. I think of Robert Horry. I think of guys who have ice in their veins and take that shot without thinking… And knock it down. I think of Kobe Bryant, though not at the level a lot of people do. I just don’t think of LeBron James as having ice in his veins.

But we’ll have to respectfully disagree on this one.

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 he has hit some great game winning shots, but he shoots 30% in the final 3 minutes of games that are within 5 points.

would love to see what % of his turn overs happen at the end of games also.

He has shot his team out of as many games as he has helped to win!

[Ahkasi ClayParticipant]

 he has hit some great game winning shots, but he shoots 30% in the final 3 minutes of games that are within 5 points.

would love to see what % of his turn overs happen at the end of games also.

He has shot his team out of as many games as he has helped to win!

[billykParticipant]

People who dont think Lebron James isnt among the top 5 clutch players in the NBA are waaayyy to emotional (but judging the most clutch players might be opinion) IMO clutch is not only making and taking the last shot but, how you play down the stretch in BIG GAMES… If Lebron was still in stayed in Cleveland people would view him diffrent lense… 

This Lebron HATE is crazy  http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.phpv=wshh9XaHeNTWC9106O9z…..

IMO Top 5 Clutch

Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Lebron, Melo     

[billykParticipant]

People who dont think Lebron James isnt among the top 5 clutch players in the NBA are waaayyy to emotional (but judging the most clutch players might be opinion) IMO clutch is not only making and taking the last shot but, how you play down the stretch in BIG GAMES… If Lebron was still in stayed in Cleveland people would view him diffrent lense… 

This Lebron HATE is crazy  http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.phpv=wshh9XaHeNTWC9106O9z…..

IMO Top 5 Clutch

Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Lebron, Melo     

[Ghost01Participant]

It so laughable how many people act as if Game 5 of the 2010 ECSF is how Lebron plays every game.

People sure do forget alot of other ball games.

Lebron never disappears in the 4th quarter. He almost won the the 2009 ECF single handidly. He won the 2007 ECF single handidly. He is clutch. He just wasnt good at all, one time, on game. Get over yourselves.

[Ghost01Participant]

It so laughable how many people act as if Game 5 of the 2010 ECSF is how Lebron plays every game.

People sure do forget alot of other ball games.

Lebron never disappears in the 4th quarter. He almost won the the 2009 ECF single handidly. He won the 2007 ECF single handidly. He is clutch. He just wasnt good at all, one time, on game. Get over yourselves.

[Jlv2010]

he just complains that his arm hurts and blames it on that. 

[Jlv2010]

he just complains that his arm hurts and blames it on that. 

[Ghost01Participant]

No, the media blamed it on that.

Because the media were the biggest lebron d riders until he went to the heat and became hated by everyone.

Its funny how stupid people are, and you are one of them.

I want to hear a "Lebron isnt clutch" arguement, without the use of the following words

ECSF Game 5

[Ghost01Participant]

No, the media blamed it on that.

Because the media were the biggest lebron d riders until he went to the heat and became hated by everyone.

Its funny how stupid people are, and you are one of them.

I want to hear a "Lebron isnt clutch" arguement, without the use of the following words

ECSF Game 5

[Jlv2010]

after the playoffs.  Must be a seasonal condition that flares up around april-may.

[Jlv2010]

after the playoffs.  Must be a seasonal condition that flares up around april-may.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Clutch doesn’t just mean hitting the game winning shot or being able to make foul shots with the game on the line.  Clutch is whose hands do you want the ball in at the end of a game?  Ray Allen is not doing anything with the ball at the end of a game if he has to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense.  But Allen is one of the best clutch shooters to ever live.  LeBron has had the ball in his hands in every single clutch moment his team has ever played in from the time he was a 19 year old rookie to even now on a team with Bosh and Wade.  There is only 2 other people I would rather have the ball then Lebron.  

It;s like the same people leaving Lebron off this list will put Dirk in their top 5?  WTF?  You would really rather have Dirk with the ball then Lebron at the end of a game?

And Manu def deserves honorable mention he is as clutch as they come.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Clutch doesn’t just mean hitting the game winning shot or being able to make foul shots with the game on the line.  Clutch is whose hands do you want the ball in at the end of a game?  Ray Allen is not doing anything with the ball at the end of a game if he has to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense.  But Allen is one of the best clutch shooters to ever live.  LeBron has had the ball in his hands in every single clutch moment his team has ever played in from the time he was a 19 year old rookie to even now on a team with Bosh and Wade.  There is only 2 other people I would rather have the ball then Lebron.  

It;s like the same people leaving Lebron off this list will put Dirk in their top 5?  WTF?  You would really rather have Dirk with the ball then Lebron at the end of a game?

And Manu def deserves honorable mention he is as clutch as they come.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

 ^I completely agree.

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

 ^I completely agree.

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

@doublenickel….nobody will ever be uglier than Charlie V in this league….

@anyonewhodoesn’thavecarmeloontheirlist……f*ckin kill yourself…..

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

@doublenickel….nobody will ever be uglier than Charlie V in this league….

@anyonewhodoesn’thavecarmeloontheirlist……f*ckin kill yourself…..

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

"Clutch doesn’t just mean hitting the game winning shot or being able to make foul shots with the game on the line."

That’s true, but let’s not undervalue just how much it means when a player doesn’t think twice about taking that game winning shot. Let’s not undervalue a player that’ll take that shot time and time again with confidence… And come through. Let’s not undervalue the player that wants that ball. Let’s not undervalue the player that steps up to the line with ease and makes those free-throws. Those are VERY important factors when determining a player who’s clutch.

Of course I wouldn’t want Dirk handling the ball over LeBron’s (that’s not Dirk’s game), but I’d rather Dirk take the game winning shot over LeBron. IF there were a few seconds on the clock to isolate and shoot, I’m going with Dirk over LeBron to take that shot.

I’d go with Kobe, Melo, Dirk, Wade, Nash, Pierce over LeBron to take that final shot.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

"Clutch doesn’t just mean hitting the game winning shot or being able to make foul shots with the game on the line."

That’s true, but let’s not undervalue just how much it means when a player doesn’t think twice about taking that game winning shot. Let’s not undervalue a player that’ll take that shot time and time again with confidence… And come through. Let’s not undervalue the player that wants that ball. Let’s not undervalue the player that steps up to the line with ease and makes those free-throws. Those are VERY important factors when determining a player who’s clutch.

Of course I wouldn’t want Dirk handling the ball over LeBron’s (that’s not Dirk’s game), but I’d rather Dirk take the game winning shot over LeBron. IF there were a few seconds on the clock to isolate and shoot, I’m going with Dirk over LeBron to take that shot.

I’d go with Kobe, Melo, Dirk, Wade, Nash, Pierce over LeBron to take that final shot.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

During a game vs Boston last season… LeBron was struggling significantly from the free-throw line. He’d missed like ten free-throws (double check me because I didn’t do research).

After being significantly outplayed by Boston for majority of the game, the Cavs battled all of the way back in the fourth quarter (LeBron led the comeback!) and the Cavs were down two with like less than 8 seconds left. LeBron had the ball on the fast break (open lane to the basket) and the Celtics were in the penalty. LeBron, 6′ 8" 250 best athlete in NBA history, pulls up for a *three-pointer* and clanks it. Celtics win the game.

That’s just one example of LeBron in the final moments of a clutch situation. Led the comeback (making him clutch in some people’s eyes) and then took the easy way out and took a three pointer because he did NOT want to get put on the line.

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

During a game vs Boston last season… LeBron was struggling significantly from the free-throw line. He’d missed like ten free-throws (double check me because I didn’t do research).

After being significantly outplayed by Boston for majority of the game, the Cavs battled all of the way back in the fourth quarter (LeBron led the comeback!) and the Cavs were down two with like less than 8 seconds left. LeBron had the ball on the fast break (open lane to the basket) and the Celtics were in the penalty. LeBron, 6′ 8" 250 best athlete in NBA history, pulls up for a *three-pointer* and clanks it. Celtics win the game.

That’s just one example of LeBron in the final moments of a clutch situation. Led the comeback (making him clutch in some people’s eyes) and then took the easy way out and took a three pointer because he did NOT want to get put on the line.

 

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

he’s slowly putting a clutch resume together that can f*ck with Kobe’s…..just wait til he is on a contending team and it will be proven…..

(waits for haters to point me down)….

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

he’s slowly putting a clutch resume together that can f*ck with Kobe’s…..just wait til he is on a contending team and it will be proven…..

(waits for haters to point me down)….

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Of course there are specific instances when he didn’t make the right decision in the clutch, but that’s true for everyone. 

[Im Your FatherParticipant]

Of course there are specific instances when he didn’t make the right decision in the clutch, but that’s true for everyone. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

To be honest… I don’t see any difference between LeBron in the first quarter and LeBron in the fourth quarter. He’s the same player. He’s just being himself… Driving into the lane, etc.

However, during that final possession… He shrinks. Look at his body language, eyes, shot selection, etc. It changes. He looses his calm/cool demeanor. I’ve seen him pass the ball. Step up to the line without confidence. I’ve seen him take long jumpers because he didn’t want to get fouled and put on the line (where he’s a mid 70’s shooter).

He’s a clutch player, just not the guy I want taking the shot in a final possession.

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

To be honest… I don’t see any difference between LeBron in the first quarter and LeBron in the fourth quarter. He’s the same player. He’s just being himself… Driving into the lane, etc.

However, during that final possession… He shrinks. Look at his body language, eyes, shot selection, etc. It changes. He looses his calm/cool demeanor. I’ve seen him pass the ball. Step up to the line without confidence. I’ve seen him take long jumpers because he didn’t want to get fouled and put on the line (where he’s a mid 70’s shooter).

He’s a clutch player, just not the guy I want taking the shot in a final possession.

 

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

if I’m the heat Wade is getting the ball 99 out of 100 times and the other time its going to Mario Chalmers…..

[midwestbbscoutParticipant]

if I’m the heat Wade is getting the ball 99 out of 100 times and the other time its going to Mario Chalmers…..

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Midwestscout you’re better then that, Mario Chalmers?  The dude can’t even play himself on the court in Miami with no good PG’s on the roster.  And the Heat and Coach Spo who has coached Wade the last few years exclusively is going with Lebron most of the time in the clutch so what does that tell you?

@IndianaBasketball if we were talking "Clutch Shooters" then i would take Dirk over Lebron.  But "Clutch" involves moments of play when the game is on the line.  And in that Boston game the whole 4th quarter was clutch.  Yes LeBron did miss that final shot but didn’t you just talk about wanting a player who wouldn’t hesitate to take the final shot?  Did Bron hesitate to pull up for the 3 when he could of went to the lane for the tie?  LeBron wanted to put the nail in the coffin by hitting that 3 and not just tie the game i can’t blame him for that it takes guts to even take that shot.  And what about the turn around 3 fading away with less then a second on the clock that he drilled?

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Midwestscout you’re better then that, Mario Chalmers?  The dude can’t even play himself on the court in Miami with no good PG’s on the roster.  And the Heat and Coach Spo who has coached Wade the last few years exclusively is going with Lebron most of the time in the clutch so what does that tell you?

@IndianaBasketball if we were talking "Clutch Shooters" then i would take Dirk over Lebron.  But "Clutch" involves moments of play when the game is on the line.  And in that Boston game the whole 4th quarter was clutch.  Yes LeBron did miss that final shot but didn’t you just talk about wanting a player who wouldn’t hesitate to take the final shot?  Did Bron hesitate to pull up for the 3 when he could of went to the lane for the tie?  LeBron wanted to put the nail in the coffin by hitting that 3 and not just tie the game i can’t blame him for that it takes guts to even take that shot.  And what about the turn around 3 fading away with less then a second on the clock that he drilled?

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Brandon Roy has made like 10 buzzer beaters this year and seems to be almost automatic when he takes them but that doesn’t make him the most clutch player in the league.  Because when it comes down to it with under 3 minutes left in a close game LeBron will put that game away before Roy does.  

And Melo is indeed one of the most clutch players in the league, I don’t know if he’s building a resume better then Kobe (See: 6 rings) but he is def building a winning resume.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Brandon Roy has made like 10 buzzer beaters this year and seems to be almost automatic when he takes them but that doesn’t make him the most clutch player in the league.  Because when it comes down to it with under 3 minutes left in a close game LeBron will put that game away before Roy does.  

And Melo is indeed one of the most clutch players in the league, I don’t know if he’s building a resume better then Kobe (See: 6 rings) but he is def building a winning resume.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I didn’t see it that way.

I saw a player who’d been struggling badly from the line and didn’t want to drive the lane and be put on the line to sink two free-throws to tie the game (much more pressure and difficult shots).

Attempting that three-pointer was the easy way out… IF he misses it, people say, "Well… He went for the kill and it was a tough shot."

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I didn’t see it that way.

I saw a player who’d been struggling badly from the line and didn’t want to drive the lane and be put on the line to sink two free-throws to tie the game (much more pressure and difficult shots).

Attempting that three-pointer was the easy way out… IF he misses it, people say, "Well… He went for the kill and it was a tough shot."

[Jlv2010]

1. Kobe 2. Melo 3. Wade 4. Pierce 5. Dirk 6. Roy 7. D.Williams 8. Allen 9. Billups 10. Fisher 11. Nash, 12. Ginobli, 13. Amare, 14. Durant, 15. Lebron 

[Jlv2010]

1. Kobe 2. Melo 3. Wade 4. Pierce 5. Dirk 6. Roy 7. D.Williams 8. Allen 9. Billups 10. Fisher 11. Nash, 12. Ginobli, 13. Amare, 14. Durant, 15. Lebron 

[Jlv2010]

Top 15 Clutch Players

1. Kobe 2. Melo 3. Wade 4. Pierce 5. Dirk 6. Roy 7. D.Williams 8. Allen 9. Billups 10. Fisher 11. Nash, 12. Ginobli, 13. Amare, 14. Durant, 15. Lebron 

[Jlv2010]

Top 15 Clutch Players

1. Kobe 2. Melo 3. Wade 4. Pierce 5. Dirk 6. Roy 7. D.Williams 8. Allen 9. Billups 10. Fisher 11. Nash, 12. Ginobli, 13. Amare, 14. Durant, 15. Lebron 

[beerandhiphopParticipant]

mike bibby was pretty clutch on the kings

[beerandhiphopParticipant]

mike bibby was pretty clutch on the kings

[billykParticipant]

I think we all have diffrent prespective on things, I think Lebron body language says he wants the ball in the in crunch time.. IMO he seems to step his game up in the 4th quarter and its easy to question players shot selection in hindsight.. Basketball is such a fast game and as fans we can always say a player should have down this or that… People also forgot aganist the Celtics Lebron was locking up Pierce, which is not a easy task.. If anybody who every played basketball knows it takes a special athlete to carry a team offensively and lock down the other teams BEST player… Personally I think is resume in the 4th quarter speaks for itself… 

[billykParticipant]

I think we all have diffrent prespective on things, I think Lebron body language says he wants the ball in the in crunch time.. IMO he seems to step his game up in the 4th quarter and its easy to question players shot selection in hindsight.. Basketball is such a fast game and as fans we can always say a player should have down this or that… People also forgot aganist the Celtics Lebron was locking up Pierce, which is not a easy task.. If anybody who every played basketball knows it takes a special athlete to carry a team offensively and lock down the other teams BEST player… Personally I think is resume in the 4th quarter speaks for itself… 

[Author]

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