Tony Wroten.... Future Star?
On the season Tony Wroten is averaging 13.8 points, 3.7 assists, 3.7 rebounds, and 0.9 steals in 26.5 minutes per game. He's shooting 43 percent from the field, 57 percent from the line and 25 percent from 3. He's also averaging 2.6 turnovers.
In 10 games as a starting guard(Starting Point Guard) he's averaging 18.9 points, 5.5 assists, 5.1 rebounds, and 1.2 steals in 34.4 minutes per game. He's shooting 43 percent from the field, 57 percent from the line, and 28 percent from 3. He's also averaging 3.1 turnovers.
Now first lets address the elephants in the room. He still is a little too careless with the ball and he's a horrible shooter, but he's a tremendous athlete, he can attack the basket, he can find the open man, he can be a good defender when he's locked in, he's also a 6'6", 208 pound point guard. The same strengths and weaknesses he's had since high school.He's also still only 20 years old. About 18 months YOUNGER than Michael Carter Williams who is averaging 17.7 points, 7.3 assists, 5.8 rebounds, and 3.1 steals in 36.7 minutes per game. MCW is shooting 41 percent from the field, 57% from the line, 32 percent from 3, and he's averaging 3.7 turnovers.
Besides the steals the stats and playing styles are fairly similar. The 76ers plan is to try and play them together. Tony Wroten is as of right now part of their immediate future, they picked up his 3rd year option. We have to take into account that they are putting in these stats on a losing team.
We all know the history of Tony Wroten especially on this website, he was once compared to Westbrook, he then got Iman Shumpert, Tyreke Evans, Jamal Crawford comparisons, pretty much any 6'5-6'6 combo guard.
I've always thought he could be successful and he was at one time a hotbed for debates on him. I want to know what everyone thinks about his future in the NBA. Maybe he and MCW can go work with Hal Wissel, Lance Stephenson's shooting coach and they can work together in the backcourt, maybe he improves on his on and goes and gets his on team. I for one think if he improves his shooting with his athleticism the sky is the limit.
What do you guys think of his future and skillset? Can he be a starting 1(or 2) in the league? Will he be a supersub? Can he be a star? Will he improve his jumpshot? What do you think?
I don't think I'd call him a future star but I definitely think he can develop into a strong player in this league. His physical profile alone will allow him to carve out a niche as an above average defender and stay in the league. If his jump shot develops that'll help him out, but I think he should focus on getting to the rim and either finishing, drawing a foul, or dishing out. Also, I'm still shocked that the Grizzlies let him go for a future second round pick. I would have kept him for another year and see how he developed.
Always have to be a little careful with numbers on a tanking team but I've been really plesantly suprised as I was high on him before the draft. It's the age old thing of if he can get his jumper to a point where defenses have to respect it and not go under screens he can be an evective starting two gaurd. He's primarily a slasher in the Wade/Evans (not making a comparison, can't state that enough) style where his ball handling, speed and PG skills will allow him to drive and dish. I can see him developing into a nice 15, 5 & 5 backcourt mate for MCW. One thing's for sure if they can both lock down starting spots they'll create a lot of mtach-up issues against undersized backcourts (eg - Charlotte).
If one of learns to shoot they could be great together. I think that is what the sixers are hoping. It is fine having one guard who cant shoot on the court, but it is hard to have 2 guards who cant shoot on the court together.
I agree to an extent but when both of those guys best strengths are ball handling, passing and speed it becomes an issue not to have an at least repectable jumper. Defenders will sag off, go under screens, and generally clog the paint making it hard to get the penetration which will create the open opportunities for others. Either of them having a poor shooting stroke (MCW's looks pretty solid already and Wroten has certainly improved) with hurt their potential effectivness. All you need to do is be able to hit open shots, then it becomes about selecting the right opportunities so as to score efficiently.
He reminds me a bit of Tyreke Evans. He definitely could be because he is still young, but hes gotta atleast improve from the line and take better care of the ball. I like him alot...
The Grizzlies probably regret trading him. He could have been their future 2-guard after Tony Allen. I think he's got some defensive potential too.
Borderline all-star, but he'll never get there.
Tony Wroten was the first player that I ever really tried to scout just for fun. I taped about 20 of his games while he was playing for the Washington huskies and thought that he should have been a top 10 pick in the 2012 nba draft based purely on his talent and potential.
Best Case Scenario - He can be the next Gary Payton
Worst Case Scenario - He can end up being the next Tyreke Evans
Tony possesses 6 great basketball attributes that will help him develop into a great basketball player / All-Star:
1.Mentally Tony Wroten possesses great toughness, heart, confidence, passion, aggressiveness, fearlessness, and competiveness
2. Physically Tony Has been blessed with great Physical tools ( example: great height, size, length, quickness, speed, agility, strength, and all-around athleticism )
3. Defensively I think that Tony has the potential to be a special and elite Gary Payton type of individual defender. When he at times embraces being a tough defender, he simply looks outstanding because he has great lateral quickness, can change directions with-in difficult angles with ease, has great hands that allows him to get a lot of deflections, can guard multiple positions ( pg, sg, and sf ) and has a Gary Payton like mindset that allows him to defend with a lot of swagger, toughness, heart, and fearlessness.
4. His ball-handling skills combined with his quickness give tony the ability to penetrate and get to the rim at a very high and great level
5. And as we all know his passing ability and anticipation skills as a passer will give him the opportunity to be a great creator of offense for others who can at times create something out of nothing because he can utilize a natural sense of timing that allows him to make plays before the defense can adjust ( example of Tony's passing skills- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHo5N37wcDI )
6. He also has the ability to create scoring opportunities for himself at a very high level when needed because of his good scoring instincts, very good ball handling skills, and ability to finish around the rim in very creative and athletic ways ( For example: Tony is one of the top 3 guards in the NBA when it comes to scoring in the paint. I think he as a total of 189 points scored around the rim. The only guards who have more points around the rim this year are Monte Ellis and Tony Parker )
Tony Wroten plays a lot like Gary Payton and I think tony has more potential than MCW. Tony is just extremely talented and easily has the potential to develop into an all - star and easily be a very good starting point guard in the NBA if he can develop into a better shooter, develop into better decision maker, and develop into a true point guard who can run a team in a very efficient matter
Tony Wroten is showing promise, but as the OP pointed out, he still suffers from the same problem: mental mistakes. And if he is ever on a contender - such as his time with the Grizz - those errors will be magnified.
His shot mechanics are so flawed, I've pretty much accepted that he'll always be a poor shooter. If he does develop a 17 foot jump-shot, it'll be a pleasant surprise, but I wouldn't bank on it. So if you can't shoot, it's difficult to contribute off-ball on offense.
That leaves us with the question, can Tony play the point as the starter. As of now, the answer is 'not really'. He's shown good stretches, but I think we can all agree MCW is the point guard of the 76ers. If Tony can sustain his success-not just statistically, but also in terms of game management- then I'll change my tune.
The latest mock draft has the Sixers taking Exum...which is possibile if they don't get a top 3 pick. A backcourt of MCW, Wroten and Exum would be very interesting. You could probably play all 3 of them at the same time depending on the matchup. I would much rather see them get Wiggins, Parker or Embiid but it wouldn't be the end of the world to only have the 5th or 6th pick in this draft. If the New Orleans pick they get stays top 10 they will be very lucky. I don't see New Orleans struggling quite as much with a healthy Anthony Davis and Ryan Anderson in the 2nd half of the season so I am projecting that will be more of a mid first round selection.
I wouldn't mind seeing them bring in Aaron Gordon to learn from Thad Young how to contribute as an undersized 4 using energy and athleticism. Thad Young has 2 years left on his deal after this one and an early termination option so Gordon could replace Thad eventually and although a frontcourt of Noel and Gordon is undersized it would be very quick and active as well.
Tony Wroten has been as good as I possibly thought he could be as A Sixers so far if not better. I hadn't gotten to see much of Tony being that he played one year at Washington which is rarely a televised team on the east coast and he hardly got any run in Memphis. Much of my expectations of him was generated form the hype I had heard about him on here. He has had plays this year where I have said I haven't seen somebody on the Sixers do that since Iverson. Wroten is relentless attacking the basket and although out of control sometimes he makes things happen. He will be a great 6th man to have going forward with the ability to play the 1 or the 2. If he improves him jumper and decision making he has future starting PG potential...it won't be in Philly with MCW in town but Wroten brings a little of an Eric Bledsoe element to the game in my opinion. I don't think he would do that well running the show by himself right now but he certainly has that kind of potential.
He is a great athlete and on a team where he can play through his mistakes so he should have every opportunity to improve. Shooting ability can be improved so I have hope for him there.
I never saw him play before this year, but hopefully he grows into a solid role. Right now he is probably too raw to get big minutes on any team with a chance at the playoffs, but the Sixers should be bad long enough for him to continue to play.
I think they are going to try and build the value of him and MCW and trade one of them. They are two left shoes, too similar. Can't have two guards who can't shoot on the court together all the time, it kills your spacing.
I think Wroten works best as a 6th man. Watching the 76ers this year, though their strengths and weaknesses are similar, there's a huge difference between MCW and Wroten. MCW really knows how to run a team and how to control the game. Wroten is just a crazy ball of energy with a lot of talent, but he doesn't really know how to manage the game. I think that's why getting Exum is a realistic possibility for them. They can start MCW and Exum and bring Wroten off the bench for either one of them in spurts.
The problem there is that Exum isn't a very good shooter either, but I think he and MCW stand a much better chance of developing their shots than Wroten because of how awful his mechanics are.
Regardless, I think it's pretty obvious that the 76ers won that trade with Memphis.
What makes Wroten productive on a bad team makes him a minimal bench player on a good team. He's a hyper aggressive, reckless, low IQ, irrational confidence player who doesn't recognize his own limitations.
Brett Brown's system is great for him because he gets the middle of the floor, he gets to play in space and in the open floor at a very fast pace (pretty sure the 6ers are the #1 team in he league in # of possessions), but I don't think he'd nearly be as productive if he had to share ball-handling duties. I don't think he'd be as successful with different personnel either, like without 2 big man floor spacers or a more half court oriented team. He can't be the primary ball-handler either because he's so reckless.
When looking at some of the 76er players' numbers keep pace factor in mind. They're the highest paced team (use the most number of possessions) in the league by a pretty big margin. They're a bad team too, so it's like inflated numbers on top of inflated numbers.
Siggy please stop being an hater and just accept the fact that tony wroten is a talented player who has the potential to develop into a very good NBA player. Siggy you've never liked tony wroten and said in one of your past post that:
"A better indication of Wroten's ability was his play in summer league. He was trash. The Grizz Front office watched it, reviewed the tape and decided that they didn't want him on their team. Wroten plays like he has no brain. He's not a PG, he just thinks he is. He also loves to play with the ball in his his hands despite being a detriment to his team when he's on the ball since he's such a horrible decision maker. Playing for a bad 6er team might prolong his stay, but I doubt he stays in the league much longer ".
Well Siggy you were wrong, tony got talent, skills, and tremendous upside. I scouted the young man two years ago and accepted that he had the potential to be a big-time bust or a flat out Star.
He's very fun to watch and has the potential to be a Gary Payton type of playmaker and defender
Congratulations. You have successfully pointed out that we have a difference of opinion about a player.
The truth Siggy is that I wanted you to just acknowledge your mistake of judgment with a sense of humility. Because their are times when you judge and dislike players with a strong sense of pride. That at times really makes no sense to me. For example, you've expressed to me on numerous occasions regarding how you think that Micheal Beasley, Tyreke Evans, and Tony Wroten are bad players. When the reality is that all three are very talented, skilled, and gifted players. Who have to mature on and off the court, in order for them to reach their full potential.
Siggy you obviously are one of the best on this website when it comes to judging prospects and when it comes to expressing a high level of basketball understanding. I really wanted to just point out your mistake of judgment, in ways that will hopefully help you become more humble and optimistic when it comes to judging prospects in the future.
Also remember Siggy that nobody will ever be perfect when it comes to giving judgment or critique.
I don't understand the hype around Tony Wroten. He WILL NOT be an allstar. There are 5 better guards that I can name from the top of my head
- John Wall
- Kyrie Irving
- Deron Williams
- Victor Oladipo
- Lance Stephenson/Derrick Rose (when healthy)/ Kemba Walker/ Bradley Beal
Everyone is hyping this player. He is good, but not that good.
What mistake in judgement? Is Tony Wroten a bad decision maker? Can he not shoot? Is he reckless? TO prone, etc? The criticisms still stand. I still don't think he's a good player and on a better team I think he'd be marginalized.
I disagree with you on certain players. Get over it.
Bad players don't get triple doubles
Bad players don't average close to 20ppg, 5 assist, and 5 rebounds as a starter
Bad players don't defend with tremendous skill, toughness, heart, and tenacity
Tony is a good player Siggy, your foolishness just won't allow you to accept reality.
Even your boys Beasley and Tyreke put up nice lines on bad teams. Inflated stats don't matter. There's a reason why the Grizz gave up Wroten for virtually nothing. Put him in a situation where efficiency matters, where he has more competition from quality players, where he's not able to monopolize the ball and just play wild open court basketball and his role won't nearly be the same.
Your criticism is based on your own personal opinions that doesn't have the support of any realistic source of evidence. Last year tony didn't get playing time on a team ( Memphis Grizzlies ) that was trying to compete for a champion. They could not afford to wait for tony to develop in ways that was focused on him learning from his mistakes. But in his second year tony is playing for a team that is giving him the fullest opportunity to develop into a good player regardless of his weaknesses. And he's playing well because of it. And you still won't acknowledge that he is a good player. It's obvious that you are an individual who's thinks he knows everything. When in reality you at times have foolish views and opinions that don't compliment reality. The truth is that Tony is in the NBA playing well against great players. Which support the reality that he is a good player
Your wrong Siggy, Tony got skills, so just accept it and enjoy the show ( because the young man is a very fun player to watch play in the NBA)
You want substantiation?
He can't shoot. 19% (!!!) on jumpers. 57% from the line, FOR A GUARD.
How about his finishing ability? 52% from less than 5 feet which is below average for a guard. Overall TS is 49%. Awful.
TO prone? Yes. 3.5 TO per 36.
Doesn't know his own limitations? Nope, great example is his 3PAs. 3.5 a game despite shooting 25% from that range.
Overall he has a NEGATIVE Win Share on offense, which is awful and pretty difficult to achieve.
The 76ers have been better with him off the floor than they've been with him on it. In terms of total impact on the team, Wroten is right there with James Anderson on the 6ers (-4.2 simple rating, -4.4 simple rating respectively). Overall, he has been a net negative with a -13.2 net rating. On the floor the 6ers offensive rating is 95.3 per 100 possessions. Off the floor their rating is 99.3. Wroten on the floor their defensive rating is 108.5. Off the floor it's 104.7. See the pattern there?
His individual plays? .81 points per possession on offense, which puts him around ~ the 35th percentile in the entire league. Points per possession against is .99, bad enough to be ~30th percentile in the league.
What does all that add up to? The evidence supports my opinion that he's not good.
We COULD talk about attributes but then that'd just devolve into my opinion vs yours, where you'd just dismiss my criticism as "hating."
I've been a huge Tony Wroten fan from day 1 and thought he should have been a lottery pick based on potential alone. In terms of his jump shot, the last two games he's really improved his 3 point shot. I doubt he can keep it up all season but he is 7/12 from deep over the last 2 games. When you look at him shoot he has a good stroke he just needs to jump. Right now his shot is a sort of set shot. But he has all the time in the world to get better and is only 20. Plus I think he could end up being a triple double machine in the future. His first ever start he was the first person to ever get a triple double in their first start and he's been close half of the games he's started. Against Portland he only played 24 mintues and had 18, 7 and 6.
He can play. Good playmaker with great instincts for getting to the rim.
Actually the Grizzlies were GREAT last year after we got Jon Leuer and before we traded Rudy Gay. Tony Wroten gave us something different. He is an electric player who makes some mistakes but he has tons of potential.
I think he can coexist with MCW since Wroten has scoring instincts to go along with his ball handling and passing skills. He and MCW also give the Sixers backcourt a ton of size. What they would then need would be an oversized shooter at the small forward spot. Someone like Jabari Parker would be great for them. Parker could be a shooter and floor spacer for them at the 3 or a stretch four for small ball.
... back to Wroten. I obviously wouldn't make him the starting point guard over MCW so if you start both guys you have to be patient and put them both into a situation where they can succeed. If the Sixers want a more traditional backcourt then they should draft a shooter and bring in Tony Wroten off the bench as a sixth man.
I think MCW and Wroten can be the best backcourt in the Eastern Conference pretty soon. They can make up for the backcourt's mediocre shooting by getting some forwards with range.
Right now, Tony Wroten is looking like a lock for the Rising Stars Challenge during all-star weekend (along with MCW). Wroten is also a candidate for MIP.