Today's NBA Players' 80's-90's Counterparts (PG Edition)
Who, for each player in today's game, is a close-to-perfect mirror image (counterpart) of yesterday's players (from 80's-90's era)? Let's start with the Point Guards:
I think Kevin Johnson is pretty similar to Chris Paul. Both are small guards who could get into the paint at will using great change of pace moves, and could both score and distribute proficiently. I think people often forget how good KJ was in his prime. Ask the 1990 Lakers.
I would compare Brandon Jennings to Kenny Anderson. Hotshot lefty point guards with tremendous handle who ended up being a little more style than substance. The jury is still out on Jennings though, as he is very young.
Steve Nash and John Stockton are a little different stylistically, but both played the position essentially the same way. Both put on clinics on how to run a basketball team, although Stockton was way better defensively.
You didn't list Andre Miller, but I think he plays pretty similar to Sam Cassell back in the day.
But, I think these would probably be the closest comparisons. I will not use anyone twice:
Derrick Rose: Jason Kidd with better athleticism and scoring ability, worse defense and distribution (Drafted in 1994)
Deron Williams: Kevin Johnson on steroids
Chris Paul: Isiah Thomas
Steve Nash: John Stockton (Though Stockton was a much stronger defender)
Stephen Curry: Mark Price
Ty Lawson: Michael Adams (Thicker, better shooter)
Raymond Felton: Rod Strickland
Jeff Teague: Vern Fleming
Darren Collison: Mookie Blaylock
Brandon Jennings: Damon Stoudamire
Mario Chalmers: Dee Brown
John Wall: Kenny Anderson (With a higher upside. Could say a more unselfish Steve Francis as well I suppose, or even Stephon Marbury, but I think the Anderson one is pretty good)
Devin Harris: Terry Porter (Minus the jumper)
Russell Westbrook: Gary Payton (Though Payton was a smarter player, though not as athletic)
DJ Augustin: Dana Barros
Luke Ridnour: Sedale Threatt
Jameer Nelson: Nick Van Exel (Less Explosive scorer)
Goran Dragic: John Starks (Though, he still has a lot to prove)
Kyle Lowry: Scott Skiles (Less offensive ability)
Mike Conley: Sherman Douglas
Rajon Rondo: Maurice Cheeks (Worse shooter)
Tony Parker: Terrell Brandon (Definitely quicker and better, but somewhat similar)
This was hard, and I doubt most of them are mirror images. But, I tried to keep them as close to the production/playing style of the players mentioned, with the minor tweaks I added.
Have to disagree with you on Derrick Rose being anything like Kidd. Kidd is a far superior distributer than Rose has ever shown himself to be. That said, he's particularly hard to find a fit for, there weren't many players like him in the 90s.
Mikey V, i love your posts and your 1 of the 3 best posters on here..
But you missed it when you compared Rose to Kidd and Dragic to John Starks, that made me laugh......
Find better ones. What was Derrick Rose's comparison upon coming into the league?:
Guess you guys also missed the "minor tweaks" part (omphalos, you point out the distribution thing, when I address that already). To be honest, their has not been a PG in the NBA like Derrick Rose. Definitely not through the 1980's/90's. I was going to write that, but I believed that you guys would catch my drift. Damn, was I wrong. Thought I might get this reaction, now you guys wonder why I try to explain everything to the last detail. But, you know what I think is funny? People commenting on someones list of comparisons without any viable alternatives. So, I get a laugh out of it as well.
People always expect comparisons to be mirror images, but that is ridiculous. No two player is the exact same. Most predictions I find are either way off base on what the player will produce or way off base of what the player plays like. To say that Derrick Rose is the size and strength of a Jason Kidd (maybe slightly shorter, but the same type of explosion) and the dominance over the position he has possessed thus far, find a better comparison. Kevin Johnson could be, but I liked the comparison of him being D-Will on steroids. Dragic was really difficult, but I find him to be much more of a scoring guard than a PG. Starks may not have been the best comparison, but find another PG I did not use without using one I already did? Now, try doing this without overlapping a player, and come up with better ones. Would love to see it. Until than, keep looking really intelligent by saying which comparisons you do not agree with without any basis for why or alternative for better ones. You know, answer the question, like I did, and you rarely seem to.
Its really hard to compare Rose to anyone becuz he's so unique...He doesnt have Kidd's court vision or defensive skills,but his defense did improve much more last season....I liken him to a combination of Isaiah Thomas & Kevin Johnson...
This is a real tough category because the point guard position has changed quite a bit, in my opinion. A lot of players who reached their NBA primes in the 80's and even the early 90's hadn't played with the 3 point line very long, thus they were not the best 3 point shooters. Now, when you look at the modern point guard, I feel they score more and are criticized if they do not have a 3 point shot.
Take, for instance, Rajon Rondo. Possibly the worst shooting NBA point guard in the leauge, yet, he has 53 career 3 point shots made in his 5 year NBA career, while a player like Maurice Cheeks had 52 for his entire 14 year career in which the 3 point shot was implimented.
There are a few comparisons that are fairly obvious and accurate, but I feel the game has changed so much at the point guard position for anyone to really knock this list out of the park.
It is very hard to find apt comparison but these are the best I could do (and for what it's worth I was watching basketball from the mid 80s). Some might be a bit different than what everybody else has but I'm more than willing to back it.
Chris Paul to John Stockton: Both highly efficient shooters from the field, terrific passers with high BBall IQ. Both despite being undersized use their deceptive quickness to help out on the defensive end of the court especially in terms of steals.
Derrick Rose to Kevin Johnson: I know what everyone is going to say; Rose is far more athletic and a better scorer while Johnson the more willing passer. However Johnson was arguably the most athletic and explosive point guard of his generation as evidenced in dunks over Hakeem, Mark Eaton and Hot Rod Williams. Also KJ averaged 22 PPG in his prime despite playing with Charles Barkley, Rose has never played with a true #1 scorer (nope Boozer coming back from injury does not count) and if he does I think his scoring will drop to about 22 PPG while his APG will rise closer to 10.
Deron Williams to Tim Hardaway: Yes, Hardaway is about 3 inches shorter but both are very good scorers and passers capable of 20/10 seasons. They also have thick builds which allow them to withstand punishment as they attack the basket and deadly crossovers that allow them to break ankles on their way to the rim.
Russell Westbrook to Fat Lever: Westbrook is more athletic that Lever but both are 6-3 point guards who can attack the rim, score, rebound, average about 8 APG and even defend when they feel like it.
Rajon Rondo to Johnny Moore: This often forgotten Spur PG was an integral player on the San Antonio team of the 80s. A very good passer and defender he averaged at least 9 APG and 2.1 SPG for five straight years with career highs of 10 APG and 2.8 SPG in 1985. His biggest weakness? Shooting. Sounds like somebody we all know.
Jason Kidd=Jason Kidd
That is why I said, try it. By the way, Rudeboy, that comparison was AMAZING! Except for the fact that those were two comparisons better for someone else......so.......yeah. Way to go man. What was I thinking when I have you to just hit it out of the park like that!
Now, I guess the Jason Kidd one did indeed stand out. He and Rose are not very similar in certain categories. But, I feel like Derrick Rose has a leadership capability and an ability to physically impose his will on a game much like Jason Kidd. I mean, their is no PG like Magic Johnson out there and I feel like Kidd was the modern equivalent to a Magic and Isiah as far as standing atop the position. You could compare Rondo to Kidd, that is much more statisically viable, but I just thought, if you had to pick a body similar to Derrick Rose, Kidd was it. The thing is, their has never really been a PG like Derrick Rose. I think that Isiah Thomas is much more characteristic of Chris Paul, and while you could use Kevin Johnson on steroids for Rose as well, I do not think it displays the physical ability a Derrick Rose contains. Sorry if I was vague, but I just thought people might use their imagination and get the whole "Jason Kidd/Dwyane Wade" comparison, which I still think is not the worst way to describe a Rose, and is certainly more accurate, I feel, than Kevin Johnson and Isiah Thomas.
Now, one thing I will say, is if you check on basketball reference, the PG position has gone through an incredible change. PG's for the most part had a shot distribution wildly different from now. The three pointer was barely used by many, and even by those who did use it, far less often and usually with far less success. I tried to put myself out on a limb, and I guess I came crashing down, but it is easy to criticize something without attempting it. That is why I did. The realization I came to, is that not a single player on my list is "an exact mirror image" of any one player, or two players for that matter. But, if you were to take the 80's/90's comparisons body, and replaced their minds with the modern day comparisons, with the minor tweakes I suggested along with other tweaks, than I think that my comparisons were not insane. Again, I am a person that really dislikes comparisons and more likes a break down of strengths and weaknesses. I find most comparisons are way off, but people on this site love doing them. So, I gave it a shot, and luckily I had a bunch of people who did also..........................................
I'm on my phone, so bear with me but a couple I thought of were
Rajon Rondo - Nate McMillian
Dj Augustine - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Tony Parker - John Starks
Chris Paul - John Stockton
Deron Williams - bigger Tim Hardaway
mikeyV, derrick rose and jason kidd couldn't have less in common if they tried lol
Maurice Cheeks: Mike Conley Jr.
"You could compare Rondo to Kidd, that is much more statisically viable, but I just thought, if you had to pick a body similar to Derrick Rose, Kidd was it. The thing is, their has never really been a PG like Derrick Rose. I think that Isiah Thomas is much more characteristic of Chris Paul, and while you could use Kevin Johnson on steroids for Rose as well, I do not think it displays the physical ability a Derrick Rose contains."
"But, if you were to take the 80's/90's comparisons body, and replaced their minds with the modern day comparisons, with the minor tweakes I suggested along with other tweaks, than I think that my comparisons were not insane. Again, I am a person that really dislikes comparisons and more likes a break down of strengths and weaknesses."
I hate to quote myself, but I wanted to highlight what I said, that I guess people missed. TC, thank you for your nugget about Jason Kidd. Yes, they have nothing in common other than being incredibly fast and athletic, bigger PG's who were born leaders of their team. Jason Kidd also never almost won an MVP award and lead his team to two NBA Finals. I realize their are incredible differences to their game, but I think that Derrick Rose does not compare to anyone. Kevin Johnson was indeed explosive, but his strength was not near that of Rose. He had a very different style as well, and if Jason Kidd plays basketball next year, he will drop below Kevin Johnson in averaging assists per game, lol.
I don't know, I am not going to defend it to the death, but I think this shows how insane people go over comparisons that really are not even there. It was an attempt at an excercise to compare players than to players now, and so few of them had the same impact. Derrick Rose is one ASG away from being in as many as KJ was. KJ never made a NBA First Team, or won MVP. He actually had his best statistical regular seasons before Charles ever got there, deferring to Tom Chambers before than. He had two huge play-offs averaging around 25 and 10 where he and Chuck carried the team, both with them losing in the 2nd round. Now, is his production maybe closer to Derrick Rose than Jason Kidd? Absolutely, but I had used him for Deron Williams. I find that Tim Hardaway and Deron Williams are incredibly different as well. Deron is only 12 Play-off games away from Tim right now, and statistically is much closer to KJ (who played 105 Play-off games). But, clearly people do not look into things that closely, so the comparisons are way off. I await my samurai sword in the mail for ritualistic samurai seppuku at my clearly off-colored comparisons and creative thought :)
The comparison is hated by most because of the fact that it only fits physical profile and the natural leader. Their style of game is nowhere near each other as Kidd is the prime example of pass first PG whereas Rose is the exact opposite. I'm not opposed to the comparison personally because there is absolutely NO pg from the 90's or 80's that plays the way Rose does because it simply didn't not exsitst at that time. Rose is SG with PG traits. Those really didn't become popular until the past 5-6 years IMO. And the athleticism alone is makes it difficult to make a perfect comparison. If I was to say anyone I'd say Gary Payton in his latter years (pre LAL). The defense isn't lockdown but due to natural girfts it's above average. Neither are the kind of guys who are going to go out and and get 10 assists, but while both are terrific scorers, neither are selfish guys who don't look to pass at all.
But again, based off of physical profile and being leaders, Kidd is a fair comparison. Not really a fan of Jameer and NVE though, NVE is a FAR superior passer clutch performer. Bigger also, but again, like you said, comparisons aren't meant to be mirror images, just an idea of one player in comparison to another.
I'll throw Iverson-Rose out there for the hell of it.
Didn't get it done the same way, but there style are relatively similar.
Decent deep threats
Iverson had the better midrange game
Decent defenders, like to play passing lanes
Great athletes, Rose has the edge in being more physically dominating b/c of his size
Rep their teams to the fullest. The cities love them.
Despite someone giving you a negative, I'm actually a fan of that comparison. Their bodies aren't similar, but they definitely both have good ability to score the ball and carry a team on their backs.
Other than the obvious blunders in MikeyV's list, he has some pretty good comparsions, but I don't see the Rose-Kidd one at all.