[gopack10Participant]

I posted this on the main news forum as well but wanted to open it up here for some discussion.

These guys did a good bit of research on Tobias.  I’m not sure that I agree with all of their examples and the statement about him being the league’s most underrated player may be a stretch but he’s definitely got a bright future and should pick up a nice contract offer this summer.

What do you guys think?

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/

 

 

  

[halfdecayedParticipant]

 Well without even reading it I think they are wrong; Conley is hands down the league’s most underrated player and has been for a couple of years now.

[halfdecayedParticipant]

 Well without even reading it I think they are wrong; Conley is hands down the league’s most underrated player and has been for a couple of years now.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Look I’m tired of people saying mike Conley is Underrated. He is not, Truth is there is so many PGs in the league that are more FLASHY,Better Athletes, Better Shooters more Creative then Conley. Mike Conley is a Solid PG. He’s a winner, Plays good Defense and Knows how to Run the Grizzles. Mike Conleys best year avg 17pts 6ast. Steph avg that his Rookie year!

I know 4 a Fact most people are taking Steph Curry,Russell Westbrook, CP3, John Wall, Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving and Damian lillard over Mike Conley right now. Arguably Kyle Lowry,Derrick Rose and Jeff Teague.

There’s to many PG in the league right now that I can see Mike Conley getting overshadowed by a more athletically Gifted Russell Westbrook, OR Bomber like Steph or the Better PG overall CP3. And honestly I think if you slide TY LAWSON in mike conleys position the Grizzles will still be Successful b/c of the post players mike Conley works with.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I think you underrate Conley because he is not "flashy."  Lowry is not close to being as good as him.  Ty Lawson isn’t better.  Tony Parker was clearly worse this season and is in decline.  Put Derrick Rose, or Jeff Teague on Memphis and they fall off.  Even Kyrie and Lillard, much more talented offensive players, are far worse on defense and would not bet the ball to the bigs as well as Conley does.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Kyle Lowry not even close to being better then Mike Conley? Are you trying to get the most thumbs down on this thread? If mike Conley was in the East he still wouldn’t have made the ALLSTAR team over Lowry or Kyrie or even Jeff Teague!

The only real argument you have is Mike Conley vs Ty lawson. And probably the only reason why that would be a good Comparison is b/c Conley is a Winner and plays on the Grizzles with the best PF/C combo in the league. Other wise I would take Ty Lawson over Mike Conley 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Kyle Lowry not even close to being better then Mike Conley? Are you trying to get the most thumbs down on this thread? If mike Conley was in the East he still wouldn’t have made the ALLSTAR team over Lowry or Kyrie or even Jeff Teague!

The only real argument you have is Mike Conley vs Ty lawson. And probably the only reason why that would be a good Comparison is b/c Conley is a Winner and plays on the Grizzles with the best PF/C combo in the league. Other wise I would take Ty Lawson over Mike Conley 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Kyle Lowry not even close to being better then Mike Conley? Are you trying to get the most thumbs down on this thread? If mike Conley was in the East he still wouldn’t have made the ALLSTAR team over Lowry or Kyrie or even Jeff Teague!

The only real argument you have is Mike Conley vs Ty lawson. And probably the only reason why that would be a good Comparison is b/c Conley is a Winner and plays on the Grizzles with the best PF/C combo in the league. Other wise I would take Ty Lawson over Mike Conley 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Kyle Lowry not even close to being better then Mike Conley? Are you trying to get the most thumbs down on this thread? If mike Conley was in the East he still wouldn’t have made the ALLSTAR team over Lowry or Kyrie or even Jeff Teague!

The only real argument you have is Mike Conley vs Ty lawson. And probably the only reason why that would be a good Comparison is b/c Conley is a Winner and plays on the Grizzles with the best PF/C combo in the league. Other wise I would take Ty Lawson over Mike Conley 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Was terrible after December.  And remember he was beat out for the starting job in Memphis.  Plus, Lowry would be less familiar with Memphis’s team and his style would clash with the team.  No way Memphis doesn’t take a significant step back if you switch Conley for Lowry.  Conley’s discipline probing off the dribble and running the PnR with Gasol is key to Memphis’s success.  Lowry wouldn’t make the pocket passes to Gasol Conley does.

Conley is the 2nd best or 3rd best, if you are high on Z-Bo, on a top-5 team in the league.  That is a lot more than you can say for many of those other guys in the league.  Memphis is really reliant on playing great defense and being a disciplined offensive team.  Subbing in a worse defensive PG who is more offensively talented but less disciplined would hurt Memphis.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Was terrible after December.  And remember he was beat out for the starting job in Memphis.  Plus, Lowry would be less familiar with Memphis’s team and his style would clash with the team.  No way Memphis doesn’t take a significant step back if you switch Conley for Lowry.  Conley’s discipline probing off the dribble and running the PnR with Gasol is key to Memphis’s success.  Lowry wouldn’t make the pocket passes to Gasol Conley does.

Conley is the 2nd best or 3rd best, if you are high on Z-Bo, on a top-5 team in the league.  That is a lot more than you can say for many of those other guys in the league.  Memphis is really reliant on playing great defense and being a disciplined offensive team.  Subbing in a worse defensive PG who is more offensively talented but less disciplined would hurt Memphis.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I think you underrate Conley because he is not "flashy."  Lowry is not close to being as good as him.  Ty Lawson isn’t better.  Tony Parker was clearly worse this season and is in decline.  Put Derrick Rose, or Jeff Teague on Memphis and they fall off.  Even Kyrie and Lillard, much more talented offensive players, are far worse on defense and would not bet the ball to the bigs as well as Conley does.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Look I’m tired of people saying mike Conley is Underrated. He is not, Truth is there is so many PGs in the league that are more FLASHY,Better Athletes, Better Shooters more Creative then Conley. Mike Conley is a Solid PG. He’s a winner, Plays good Defense and Knows how to Run the Grizzles. Mike Conleys best year avg 17pts 6ast. Steph avg that his Rookie year!

I know 4 a Fact most people are taking Steph Curry,Russell Westbrook, CP3, John Wall, Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving and Damian lillard over Mike Conley right now. Arguably Kyle Lowry,Derrick Rose and Jeff Teague.

There’s to many PG in the league right now that I can see Mike Conley getting overshadowed by a more athletically Gifted Russell Westbrook, OR Bomber like Steph or the Better PG overall CP3. And honestly I think if you slide TY LAWSON in mike conleys position the Grizzles will still be Successful b/c of the post players mike Conley works with.

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Remember when Joe Johnson was the most underrated player? Good times. 

Honestly is anybody underrated at this point? Tobias Harris is probably going to get paid 12-15 mil a year this offseason…I can’t say a guy making that kind of dough is underrated. 

Harris seems like a nice player, but from the little Orlando I’ve watched, it seems like he’s hard to built a team around because the way he gets his points are not really in the flow of an offense. He doesn’t shoot that well from 3 and he’s not a great defender. Maybe I’m way off on this but that’s what I’ve seen. I liked him a lot in college and really liked him when he got traded to Orlando but for some reason that team just hasn’t gotten any better and I dont know why. 

 

 

[BiggysmallsParticipant]

 Remember when Joe Johnson was the most underrated player? Good times. 

Honestly is anybody underrated at this point? Tobias Harris is probably going to get paid 12-15 mil a year this offseason…I can’t say a guy making that kind of dough is underrated. 

Harris seems like a nice player, but from the little Orlando I’ve watched, it seems like he’s hard to built a team around because the way he gets his points are not really in the flow of an offense. He doesn’t shoot that well from 3 and he’s not a great defender. Maybe I’m way off on this but that’s what I’ve seen. I liked him a lot in college and really liked him when he got traded to Orlando but for some reason that team just hasn’t gotten any better and I dont know why. 

 

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I believe his contract will start around 10-12M. He’s not underrated, he’s a solid scorer who can’t do much more.

[King CaluchaParticipant]

I believe his contract will start around 10-12M. He’s not underrated, he’s a solid scorer who can’t do much more.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 If Love is out in Cleveland does anyone think the Cavs should consider signing Tobias ? Can play the 3 and stretch 4, can rebound, and is young. I would say say his teammate Nikola Vucevic might be the most underrated. 

[xJumpManxParticipant]

 If he did I think Griffin makes play for Aldridge.

[xJumpManxParticipant]

 If he did I think Griffin makes play for Aldridge.

[Chilbert arenasParticipant]

 If Love is out in Cleveland does anyone think the Cavs should consider signing Tobias ? Can play the 3 and stretch 4, can rebound, and is young. I would say say his teammate Nikola Vucevic might be the most underrated. 

[mopoParticipant]

Teams tend to attack a weakness. Whether Tobias is an amazing defender or a terrible one, as long as there is someone on his team who is worse, that’s where the bulk of shots will go. The only position that stat would help with is if someone was an amazing post defender and was eliminating the highest percentage shot from opponents playbook. 

[mopoParticipant]

Teams tend to attack a weakness. Whether Tobias is an amazing defender or a terrible one, as long as there is someone on his team who is worse, that’s where the bulk of shots will go. The only position that stat would help with is if someone was an amazing post defender and was eliminating the highest percentage shot from opponents playbook. 

[xJumpManxParticipant]

 Seems to want that not sure why but hey to each their own.

[xJumpManxParticipant]

 Seems to want that not sure why but hey to each their own.

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Ive always seen him as an underrated player, not sure if the most, that call being so subjective, but for sure one of the most.

Hopefully he goes to a good team and exhibit what he can do for a contender. Also his teammate Vucevic is really nice, which you dont hear about often… if he was in a contender, you would

 

[EspressoprodigyParticipant]

 Ive always seen him as an underrated player, not sure if the most, that call being so subjective, but for sure one of the most.

Hopefully he goes to a good team and exhibit what he can do for a contender. Also his teammate Vucevic is really nice, which you dont hear about often… if he was in a contender, you would

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

My vote for most underrated would be Mo Williams hands down.

Its hard to dictate what is underrated. Is it productivity vs. contract value or percieved productivity vs. actually productivity. Whos to say? Here’s some more underrated players.

Iman Shumpert

Mike Dunleavy

Marcin Gortat

DeMarre Carroll

Khris Middleton

Danny Green

Corey Brewer

George Hill

Nicolas Batum

Andrew Bogut

Jae Crowder

Derrick Favors

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

My vote for most underrated would be Mo Williams hands down.

Its hard to dictate what is underrated. Is it productivity vs. contract value or percieved productivity vs. actually productivity. Whos to say? Here’s some more underrated players.

Iman Shumpert

Mike Dunleavy

Marcin Gortat

DeMarre Carroll

Khris Middleton

Danny Green

Corey Brewer

George Hill

Nicolas Batum

Andrew Bogut

Jae Crowder

Derrick Favors

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mgreener_34Participant]

I wouldn’t say any of those guys are really under rated except for maybe Favors, because no one talks about how good the dude has actually become over the last two years. Everyone else you mentioned is either held in high regards, or used to be like Brewer. To me an under rated player is someone who is a solid contributer whenever they play, but aren’t highly ranked or their skill goes unrecognized. For me these are just a couple players off the top of my head who are really good players, but don’t get any credit at all:

 

Marco Belinelli- Good shooter, good passer, can run an offense in a pinch (came into the league as a PG if i’m remembering it correctly), and is clutch.

Kosta Koufas- He’s a starting center on a lot of teams, and is a good offensive and defensive player. 

Quincy Pondexter- Plays solid D, can hit open shots, and is a great hustle guy. 

Omri Casspi- Smart player, good shooter, lays it all out there. High BBIQ. I wish he was actually on a good team that could use him, as I see him playing the same role the Mike Dunleavey has with the Bulls. 

Evan Fournier- Young and improving player. High BBIQ, great shooter, can handle the rock, willing passer with decent vision, and tries on D. I think he’s going to be a good player going forward, yet no one ever brings him into the equation when talking about Orlando’s future. what gives?

[mgreener_34Participant]

I wouldn’t say any of those guys are really under rated except for maybe Favors, because no one talks about how good the dude has actually become over the last two years. Everyone else you mentioned is either held in high regards, or used to be like Brewer. To me an under rated player is someone who is a solid contributer whenever they play, but aren’t highly ranked or their skill goes unrecognized. For me these are just a couple players off the top of my head who are really good players, but don’t get any credit at all:

 

Marco Belinelli- Good shooter, good passer, can run an offense in a pinch (came into the league as a PG if i’m remembering it correctly), and is clutch.

Kosta Koufas- He’s a starting center on a lot of teams, and is a good offensive and defensive player. 

Quincy Pondexter- Plays solid D, can hit open shots, and is a great hustle guy. 

Omri Casspi- Smart player, good shooter, lays it all out there. High BBIQ. I wish he was actually on a good team that could use him, as I see him playing the same role the Mike Dunleavey has with the Bulls. 

Evan Fournier- Young and improving player. High BBIQ, great shooter, can handle the rock, willing passer with decent vision, and tries on D. I think he’s going to be a good player going forward, yet no one ever brings him into the equation when talking about Orlando’s future. what gives?

[rich.homie.mitchParticipant]

 I would agree that Favors is underrated one of my favorite players, hard worker and it seems like he improves every year

I also think Calderon is underrated even though he can’t play D

 

[rich.homie.mitchParticipant]

 I would agree that Favors is underrated one of my favorite players, hard worker and it seems like he improves every year

I also think Calderon is underrated even though he can’t play D

 

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